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Posted: 6/3/2008 3:53:58 AM EDT
I just love the look of a nice coach gun. Is there any reason I can't use it to shoot skeet? Every time I bring it up with some people they tell me I can't. I'm assuming it has something to do with the patterning of the gun but realistically why can't I? For that matter why can't I use a 18"-20" barreld tactical gun? Diagrams would be best. When I eventually get a shotgun I'd like to just get one gun that will do it all.

Side note how are Norinco shotguns? I saw one of their lever actions and was impressed overall even though I couldn't work the action. (It was locked up) and their coach gun goes for cheap.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 6:31:18 AM EDT
Depends on the choke. You will probably get some remarks about the muzzle blast. I used a smooth bore slug barrel when I started and broke a number of doubles with one shot. It was pure skill luck.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:32:46 AM EDT
That's more or less what I thought. Though it seems as though most coach guns can't use choke tubes.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:36:54 AM EDT
My Stoeger coach gun, one barrel is IC and one is Modified.

$299, excellent gun.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 9:07:55 AM EDT

Quoted:
My Stoeger coach gun, one barrel is IC and one is Modified.

$299, excellent gun.


I'm looking at one of those later today at the gun store. Apparently the coach gun "supreme" comes with screw in chokes while the standard coach gun comes with fixed chokes of IC and M like you said. The Supreme also comes with a rubber butt pad and supposedly better wood on the stock. The Supreme costs more money though no idea how much more.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 9:15:22 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
My Stoeger coach gun, one barrel is IC and one is Modified.

$299, excellent gun.


I'm looking at one of those later today at the gun store. Apparently the coach gun "supreme" comes with screw in chokes while the standard coach gun comes with fixed chokes of IC and M like you said. The Supreme also comes with a rubber butt pad and supposedly better wood on the stock. The Supreme costs more money though no idea how much more.


Mine has the better wood from the factory, someone screwed up, it is really nice looking. The checkering is nothing to write home about but the wood is "top notch" I believe the Supreme is $399.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:31:47 AM EDT
Considering that most Skeet is shot with a Skeet Choke tube, (less constriction that IC, you would be fine shooting with Modified & IC bbls.

I used to shoot skeet with a 590 bullpup and while I got lots of dirty looks, I did dust a bunch of birds so the proof is in the peformance, not the looks!

BIGGER_HAMMER
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:48:21 AM EDT

Quoted:
Considering that most Skeet is shot with a Skeet Choke tube, (less constriction that IC, you would be fine shooting with Modified & IC bbls.

I used to shoot skeet with a 590 bullpup and while I got lots of dirty looks, I did dust a bunch of birds so the proof is in the peformance, not the looks!

BIGGER_HAMMER


As I correctly assumed the bias was some hunter vs tactical stigma more than anything practical.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:10:09 AM EDT
I've used a Benelli M1S90 and a FN SLP for skeet.  Got the same dirty looks until the birds started falling.  I will admit though, it's a lot harder with a short barrel and ghost rings instead of a long vented rib for tracking the birds.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:20:45 AM EDT

Quoted:
I just love the look of a nice coach gun. Is there any reason I can't use it to shoot skeet? Every time I bring it up with some people they tell me I can't. I'm assuming it has something to do with the patterning of the gun but realistically why can't I? For that matter why can't I use a 18"-20" barreld tactical gun? Diagrams would be best. When I eventually get a shotgun I'd like to just get one gun that will do it all.

Side note how are Norinco shotguns? I saw one of their lever actions and was impressed overall even though I couldn't work the action. (It was locked up) and their coach gun goes for cheap.


Yes, you could.  But should you?

You'll likely get broad patterns of shot onto your target.   If you're good enough to engage and hit the target at close range, then fine.  Though engaging that target beyond ~ 100 ft. would likely only chip the target.

Yes, you'll get credit, though in reality you've left a wounded bird in a hunting scenario.

If price is a consideration, get a Stoeger O/U.  It's inexpensive and puts you at parity with the bird shooting folks...either at the range or on the field.


Best,

Ed


Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:43:03 AM EDT

Quoted:
Considering that most Skeet is shot with a Skeet Choke tube, (less constriction that IC, you would be fine shooting with Modified & IC bbls.

I used to shoot skeet with a 590 bullpup and while I got lots of dirty looks, I did dust a bunch of birds so the proof is in the peformance, not the looks!

BIGGER_HAMMER


From what I understand, an actual skeet choke is tapered to be larger at the muzzle than bore diameter. It's sort of like a funnel in reverse. They're made to cause the shot to spread faster than normal chokes.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:43:51 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
I just love the look of a nice coach gun. Is there any reason I can't use it to shoot skeet? Every time I bring it up with some people they tell me I can't. I'm assuming it has something to do with the patterning of the gun but realistically why can't I? For that matter why can't I use a 18"-20" barreld tactical gun? Diagrams would be best. When I eventually get a shotgun I'd like to just get one gun that will do it all.

Side note how are Norinco shotguns? I saw one of their lever actions and was impressed overall even though I couldn't work the action. (It was locked up) and their coach gun goes for cheap.


Yes, you could.  But should you?

You'll likely get broad patterns of shot onto your target.   If you're good enough to engage and hit the target at close range, then fine.  Though engaging that target beyond ~ 100 ft. would likely only chip the target.

Yes, you'll get credit, though in reality you've left a wounded bird in a hunting scenario.

If price is a consideration, get a Stoeger O/U.  It's inexpensive and puts you at parity with the bird shooting folks...either at the range or on the field.


Best,

Ed




Most of the ones I've shot with/against look down their nose at anybody whose gun cost is not well into 4 figures. It really boils their blood when they tell me I need such and such gun, quick change chokes, etc. and then I go out and outshoot/shoot with them (sporting clays and skeet). It doesn't happen often, but it has happened. I even had one blabbermouth drop out because of a "medical condition" who I saw heading out with another group as I finished up. HMMM?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:47:54 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Considering that most Skeet is shot with a Skeet Choke tube, (less constriction that IC, you would be fine shooting with Modified & IC bbls.

I used to shoot skeet with a 590 bullpup and while I got lots of dirty looks, I did dust a bunch of birds so the proof is in the peformance, not the looks!

BIGGER_HAMMER


From what I understand, an actual skeet choke is tapered to be larger at the muzzle than bore diameter. It's sort of like a funnel in reverse. They're made to cause the shot to spread faster than normal chokes.


There are some "spreader" chokes. I believe skeet 1 is larger than IC and skeet 2 is smaller than IC.

There have been lots of changes in the technology that I haven't had the desire to keep up with.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:48:40 AM EDT
sorry to get off topic;

biggerhammer, how do u like the mosspup?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 12:09:29 PM EDT

Quoted:
If price is a consideration, get a Stoeger O/U.  It's inexpensive and puts you at parity with the bird shooting folks...either at the range or on the field.

Best,

Ed


I don't want an O/U. I think they are abominations unto man and ugly as sin. I like side by sides. I like having dual triggers. I'm particularly fond of the shorter barreled coach guns. Maybe it's because my parents named me Jesse James (James is in fact my middle name.) but I just do. I don't intend to ever go hunting with it. I like killing paper and I want to add clays to my regiment things I can shoot at. Sure I could use a coach gun to defend my home if I desired and in fact in that regard the coach gun is likely to be superior to a game gun with a 28" barrel when it comes to turning a corner, but even that isn't the intended purpose.

Truthfully I just kind of want one and I was hoping I could find something practical to do with it down the line if so desired so I asked the question. The general consensus is that I most certainly can, though it might be somewhat harder, which is as I assumed but I had to ask because I'm not much of a shotgun guy. Sure I'm putting form over function but as long as the trade off isn't too significant I'm ok with that.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 12:59:03 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I just love the look of a nice coach gun. Is there any reason I can't use it to shoot skeet? Every time I bring it up with some people they tell me I can't. I'm assuming it has something to do with the patterning of the gun but realistically why can't I? For that matter why can't I use a 18"-20" barreld tactical gun? Diagrams would be best. When I eventually get a shotgun I'd like to just get one gun that will do it all.

Side note how are Norinco shotguns? I saw one of their lever actions and was impressed overall even though I couldn't work the action. (It was locked up) and their coach gun goes for cheap.


Yes, you could.  But should you?

You'll likely get broad patterns of shot onto your target.   If you're good enough to engage and hit the target at close range, then fine.  Though engaging that target beyond ~ 100 ft. would likely only chip the target.

Yes, you'll get credit, though in reality you've left a wounded bird in a hunting scenario.

If price is a consideration, get a Stoeger O/U.  It's inexpensive and puts you at parity with the bird shooting folks...either at the range or on the field.


Best,

Ed




Most of the ones I've shot with/against look down their nose at anybody whose gun cost is not well into 4 figures. It really boils their blood when they tell me I need such and such gun, quick change chokes, etc. and then I go out and outshoot/shoot with them (sporting clays and skeet). It doesn't happen often, but it has happened. I even had one blabbermouth drop out because of a "medical condition" who I saw heading out with another group as I finished up. HMMM?


Don't become wrapped-up into their world.  A 4-figure shotty is just that, with frills.  Remember, we're talkin' shotguns for use, not works of art.

Who cares if they look down your nose...everybody has a big one or a small one...doesn't matter, as long as it gets the job done!!  

Best,

Ed
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 1:36:20 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
If price is a consideration, get a Stoeger O/U.  It's inexpensive and puts you at parity with the bird shooting folks...either at the range or on the field.

Best,

Ed


I don't want an O/U. I think they are abominations unto man and ugly as sin. I like side by sides. I like having dual triggers. I'm particularly fond of the shorter barreled coach guns. Maybe it's because my parents named me Jesse James (James is in fact my middle name.) but I just do. I don't intend to ever go hunting with it. I like killing paper and I want to add clays to my regiment things I can shoot at. Sure I could use a coach gun to defend my home if I desired and in fact in that regard the coach gun is likely to be superior to a game gun with a 28" barrel when it comes to turning a corner, but even that isn't the intended purpose.

Truthfully I just kind of want one and I was hoping I could find something practical to do with it down the line if so desired so I asked the question. The general consensus is that I most certainly can, though it might be somewhat harder, which is as I assumed but I had to ask because I'm not much of a shotgun guy. Sure I'm putting form over function but as long as the trade off isn't too significant I'm ok with that.


Stoeger makes side by sides with longer barrels but IIRC they don't have 2 triggers.

When I was a lot younger I used my dad's 18" 870 Express Synthetic with a cylinder bore barrel for a Boy Scout skeet/trap outing...There were other kids there with some fancy 1100s (that choked) and O/Us. I did about as well as anyone and better than most.

Since most non-autoloading shotguns are very reliable, save your money on the gun and spend more on practice ammo.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:02:06 PM EDT

Quoted:
Depends on the choke. You will probably get some remarks about the muzzle blast. I used a smooth bore slug barrel when I started and broke a number of doubles with one shot. It was pure skill luck.


Pure BAD luck when you're shooting international. Reshoot, nothing established. And if you do it 3 (?) times in a row, then both birds are counted as misses. Really sucks when you're at competition and start breaking both on numerous occassions.


Back on topic: pretty much any shotgun will do for skeet. I've shot everything from a 19" cylinder bore to a 32" full choke on skeet without drastic changes in my score. Typically ~20 with the extremes, as opposed to ~23 with my normal 28" CYL Monty. (Never bothered to buy a separate SK choke, as CYL works just fine).
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:13:30 PM EDT
My question is, can you? Shoot what you can hit with.
BK
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:44:49 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
If price is a consideration, get a Stoeger O/U.  It's inexpensive and puts you at parity with the bird shooting folks...either at the range or on the field.

Best,

Ed


I don't want an O/U. I think they are abominations unto man and ugly as sin. I like side by sides. I like having dual triggers. I'm particularly fond of the shorter barreled coach guns. Maybe it's because my parents named me Jesse James (James is in fact my middle name.) but I just do. I don't intend to ever go hunting with it. I like killing paper and I want to add clays to my regiment things I can shoot at. Sure I could use a coach gun to defend my home if I desired and in fact in that regard the coach gun is likely to be superior to a game gun with a 28" barrel when it comes to turning a corner, but even that isn't the intended purpose.

Truthfully I just kind of want one and I was hoping I could find something practical to do with it down the line if so desired so I asked the question. The general consensus is that I most certainly can, though it might be somewhat harder, which is as I assumed but I had to ask because I'm not much of a shotgun guy. Sure I'm putting form over function but as long as the trade off isn't too significant I'm ok with that.


Stoeger makes side by sides with longer barrels but IIRC they don't have 2 triggers.

When I was a lot younger I used my dad's 18" 870 Express Synthetic with a cylinder bore barrel for a Boy Scout skeet/trap outing...There were other kids there with some fancy 1100s (that choked) and O/Us. I did about as well as anyone and better than most.

Since most non-autoloading shotguns are very reliable, save your money on the gun and spend more on practice ammo.



It depends on which model you get. My 20 gauge uplander SxS has double triggers, as does my uncle's 12 gauge.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 3:11:15 PM EDT
I just came back from the store and my god the Stoeger Coach gun is short. I guess I hear 20" barrel and I think about the overall length of a pump with a 20" and it seems larger. I handled the longer barreled Uplander which didn't seem all that large at all. I'd like to have double triggers though and this model in question has a single with a selector. Apparently the supreme uplander comes with a single trigger, the lesser uplander and the youth model come in a double.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 3:13:48 PM EDT

Quoted:
My question is, can you? Shoot what you can hit with.
BK


I honestly don't know. I was more or less wondering if there was any mechanical reason the gun would limit my ability to do so. I don't even know if I want to do competitions I just though someday I might like to try.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:15:41 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
My question is, can you? Shoot what you can hit with.
BK


I honestly don't know. I was more or less wondering if there was any mechanical reason the gun would limit my ability to do so. I don't even know if I want to do competitions I just though someday I might like to try.



I only shoot with freinds but my only shotguns are both mossberg 500's with 18.5 in bbls. I have hit 10 out of 10 a few times with a few longer shots during games of annie oakley (line of shooters if the first one misses and the next guy gets it he is out ETC...) but they always say im pissed off at the clays cause I shoot them so quick (before the pattern opens up to much) just gota be quick on the trigger and get them while they are close

People do tend to complain about the noise from it.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:35:23 PM EDT
I looked at one of the Remmington Spartans from the store and it looked to be similar in quality to the Stoegers. I kind of like the fact that it's Russian made though. So opinions, Remmington Spartan SP220 or Stoeger Uplander?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 6:06:58 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
If price is a consideration, get a Stoeger O/U.  It's inexpensive and puts you at parity with the bird shooting folks...either at the range or on the field.

Best,

Ed


I don't want an O/U. I think they are abominations unto man and ugly as sin. I like side by sides. I like having dual triggers. I'm particularly fond of the shorter barreled coach guns. Maybe it's because my parents named me Jesse James (James is in fact my middle name.) but I just do. I don't intend to ever go hunting with it. I like killing paper and I want to add clays to my regiment things I can shoot at. Sure I could use a coach gun to defend my home if I desired and in fact in that regard the coach gun is likely to be superior to a game gun with a 28" barrel when it comes to turning a corner, but even that isn't the intended purpose.

Truthfully I just kind of want one and I was hoping I could find something practical to do with it down the line if so desired so I asked the question. The general consensus is that I most certainly can, though it might be somewhat harder, which is as I assumed but I had to ask because I'm not much of a shotgun guy. Sure I'm putting form over function but as long as the trade off isn't too significant I'm ok with that.


Stoeger makes side by sides with longer barrels but IIRC they don't have 2 triggers.

When I was a lot younger I used my dad's 18" 870 Express Synthetic with a cylinder bore barrel for a Boy Scout skeet/trap outing...There were other kids there with some fancy 1100s (that choked) and O/Us. I did about as well as anyone and better than most.

Since most non-autoloading shotguns are very reliable, save your money on the gun and spend more on practice ammo.


Stoeger makes an dual trigger double barrel with removeable chokes called the "uplander" and "uplander supreme"

Link Posted: 6/3/2008 6:41:53 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Depends on the choke. You will probably get some remarks about the muzzle blast. I used a smooth bore slug barrel when I started and broke a number of doubles with one shot. It was pure skill luck.


Pure BAD luck when you're shooting international. Reshoot, nothing established. And if you do it 3 (?) times in a row, then both birds are counted as misses. Really sucks when you're at competition and start breaking both on numerous occassions.


Back on topic: pretty much any shotgun will do for skeet. I've shot everything from a 19" cylinder bore to a 32" full choke on skeet without drastic changes in my score. Typically ~20 with the extremes, as opposed to ~23 with my normal 28" CYL Monty. (Never bothered to buy a separate SK choke, as CYL works just fine).


I have never shot a registered target in my life. I used sporting and skeet as a tune up for live birds. It worked. I had a guide tell me and a buddy it was very unusual to get every bird (pheasant and chukar) the first time they went up like we did.  
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 3:21:34 PM EDT
So I narrowed it down a bit, hoping everyone could help me decide so I added a poll. I'm down to the 4 listed they are similar in price. The Remington Spartans are imports made by Russian Bakail. Most Russian made anything seems to be rugged as hell, so really I suppose I'm looking for opinions who makes the better gun, the Russians or Stoeger.

As near as I can tell this is a run down of the models.
Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme, the supreme has screw in chokes and a rubber butt pad, the regular doesn't have either.
Stoeger Uplander, the regular uplander has 2 triggers, the supreme version only has 1 which I don' t like
Remington SP220 20" only has a 2 3/4" chamber, all the other guns listed have 3" chamber
Remington SP220 28" is more or less the same features as the Uplander but comes with a rubber butt pad

Is there anything I'm over looking?
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 4:50:40 PM EDT
The chamber difference is none at all unless you plan to use this gun to hunt waterfowl.

Based on my personal experience, I would take a Stoeger over a Baikal. Every single Baikal I have handled was significantly more "rough around the edges" than the Stoegers I've looked at. FWIW, I was planning on buying a Stoeger about a year ago, but ended up putting that money towards a handgun (good deal on a SIG) instead.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 9:09:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2008 3:17:19 PM EDT
I was at my local bass Pro Shops and they had a Stoeger with choke tubes in it. I forgot what model coach gun it was but it was a coach gun gun. I think it was their Nickel Finish Model.
Link Posted: 8/13/2008 5:26:39 PM EDT
Id go with the Stoeger Uplander (twin trigger, removable chokes) or the Stoeger Coach Gun. (twin trigger, fixed chokes)

They are basically the same shotgun with different barrel lengths.
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