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Link Posted: 12/26/2020 8:09:43 PM EST
I took my replacement 9" Bren 2 out today to test the HBI spring and their suppressor port drilling service.

I only had about 45 minutes to function test the gun and I was very happy to report that I shot 120 rounds with perfect function.

I only shot 3 rounds suppressed d/t the mount not having any rockset and it began to work itself loose. The 3 rounds suppressed and on the new setting functioned flawlessly.

@hbi This is the first range session in 6 months with my Bren that has been positive. I am really happy with the result, however I know that the spring isnt advertised as a fix for the fte issue. Even still, I have to thank you guys for everything you have done for the platform.

I will be conducting much more testing to see if the issues return as 120 rounds is not enough to determine reliability.

At the end of the range trip I gave my brown bear subsonics another try with dismal results. This is my target after firing 20 rounds.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JJCtD4iMq7rLngEQA

As I said in my previous post, please test your gun with subs before attaching a suppressor.
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 8:39:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Tfdarchos:
I took my replacement 9" Bren 2 out today to test the HBI spring and their suppressor port drilling service.

I only had about 45 minutes to function test the gun and I was very happy to report that I shot 120 rounds with perfect function.

I only shot 3 rounds suppressed d/t the mount not having any rockset and it began to work itself loose. The 3 rounds suppressed and on the new setting functioned flawlessly.

@hbi This is the first range session in 6 months with my Bren that has been positive. I am really happy with the result, however I know that the spring isnt advertised as a fix for the fte issue. Even still, I have to thank you guys for everything you have done for the platform.

I will be conducting much more testing to see if the issues return as 120 rounds is not enough to determine reliability.

At the end of the range trip I gave my brown bear subsonics another try with dismal results. This is my target after firing 20 rounds.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JJCtD4iMq7rLngEQA

As I said in my previous post, please test your gun with subs before attaching a suppressor.
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Goes without saying to check for stability with any platform and can, especially rifle subs, and even more so 7.62x39..

That being said, wow that is awful. Approx round count of barrel? Is that with the loosely installed muzzle device or without a muzzle device?
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 9:11:58 PM EST
Muzzle device was hand tight, this is also without the suppressor. I have not fired this gun using subsonics with the suppressor on for this reason. Just trying to get the word out that people need to test before they potentially ruin their suppressor. Current round count is roughly 300rnds on this pistol.
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 9:21:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2020 9:22:47 PM EST by CaribouLou45]
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Originally Posted By Tfdarchos:
Muzzle device was hand tight, this is also without the suppressor. I have not fired this gun using subsonics with the suppressor on for this reason. Just trying to get the word out that people need to test before they potentially ruin their suppressor. Current round count is roughly 300rnds on this pistol.
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I hear you. Curious to see the result once you get the muzzle device torqued on or fire it without any MD. Muzzle devices that are non-centric or have improper torque can have a big impact on accuracy and key-hole as I'm sure you know. Would be good to know if it is a potential barrel issue or not but I think you mentioned this is your second sample?

I just fired 5 subs at 25 yards passive free hand, not experiencing anything like that fortunately.

Link Posted: 12/26/2020 9:57:19 PM EST
The first time I tried subs the muzzle device was still torqued adequately, I experienced 2/20 rounds keyhole. Is your Bren a 9"? If so I may just add that to the list for cz to address.
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 10:07:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2020 10:08:08 PM EST by CaribouLou45]
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Originally Posted By Tfdarchos:
The first time I tried subs the muzzle device was still torqued adequately, I experienced 2/20 rounds keyhole. Is your Bren a 9"? If so I may just add that to the list for cz to address.
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9" 2S

If it were my gun, I'd shoot it no MD to check the barrel. If still keyholes, I'd probably check again after a couple hundred more supers down the barrel. If still no luck, I'd contact CZ

Don't take for granted that the MD is concentric or installed properly. You can YouTube a MAC vid of one of his MPX 4" being affected by the factory MD and I've also seen this first hand with a buddy's MPX 4" which is moving similar velocity to the 7.62 subsonic (obviously). Imperfections are maximized at this slower speed and the twist rate on the Bren isn't that fast for 30 cal subsonic. Good luck!
Link Posted: 12/27/2020 8:44:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/27/2020 9:00:34 PM EST by MeatAxe556]
From what I’ve seen and read, the 2S and the military / select fire guns use the same receiver. There is no “hand guard” as such, just the front end of the receiver with 6 useful M-lok slots where you need them.

The Bren 2Ms is the commercial semi-auto version marketed (primarily) to US civilians, sculpted and scalloped aesthetically, with the front end of the receiver chopped off to make room for the contrived, unergonomic “hand guard” which only serves to make owners buy replacement 922r-compliant hand guards if they want to convert to a rifle. The oem hand guard is actually worse than the 2S receiver front since it only has 2 M-lok slots. The aftermarket hand guards available now have their own problems, from ever changing torque specs to belching fireballs inside the unit itself when fired to roast your appendages.

I wish CZ would go back to the 2S and drop the 2Ms, whose sole purpose seems to be to make CZ USA’s customers spend $$$ to replace that god-awful oem hand guard with something even worse.
Link Posted: 12/27/2020 10:36:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By MeatAxe556:
From what I’ve seen and read, the 2S and the military / select fire guns use the same receiver. There is no “hand guard” as such, just the front end of the receiver with 6 useful M-lok slots where you need them.

The Bren 2Ms is the commercial semi-auto version marketed (primarily) to US civilians, sculpted and scalloped aesthetically, with the front end of the receiver chopped off to make room for the contrived, unergonomic “hand guard” which only serves to make owners buy replacement 922r-compliant hand guards if they want to convert to a rifle. The oem hand guard is actually worse than the 2S receiver front since it only has 2 M-lok slots. The aftermarket hand guards available now have their own problems, from ever changing torque specs to belching fireballs inside the unit itself when fired to roast your appendages.

I wish CZ would go back to the 2S and drop the 2Ms, whose sole purpose seems to be to make CZ USA’s customers spend $$$ to replace that god-awful oem hand guard with something even worse.
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Exactly why I grabbed a 8" 2S in 5.56 and haven't jumped into a 2MS yet. Although, I would wager that the 2MS Carbine doesn't have the aforementioned issues.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 12:35:56 AM EST
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Originally Posted By gonnasellstuff:

Ejector Spring needs replaced on x39 to fix the issue in my opinion. Possibly the extractor springs as well. On mine it was the ejector spring. Its easy to narrow down problem. Swap bolt out on the troubled x39 from a gun you know is working well.  Your gun will work great with new Bolt. After established issue is somewhere in the bolt, you start swapping springs and extractor on the problematic bolt. I have done this and it turned out my ejector spring was defective. It was actually mangled up.  The HBI spring slows the bolt which is nice but I dont believe it to be the only thing needed to fix for fte issue in the x39 models.
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Originally Posted By gonnasellstuff:
Originally Posted By grinning:
Does anyone have any idea when we’re going to hear back from CZ on this? It’s insane. Took mine out today and had four stovepipes in sixty rounds.

Ejector Spring needs replaced on x39 to fix the issue in my opinion. Possibly the extractor springs as well. On mine it was the ejector spring. Its easy to narrow down problem. Swap bolt out on the troubled x39 from a gun you know is working well.  Your gun will work great with new Bolt. After established issue is somewhere in the bolt, you start swapping springs and extractor on the problematic bolt. I have done this and it turned out my ejector spring was defective. It was actually mangled up.  The HBI spring slows the bolt which is nice but I dont believe it to be the only thing needed to fix for fte issue in the x39 models.



Consider what the bolt velocity does to the ejector spring in a plunger ejector. When the bolt slams into the back of the receiver at high speed the plunger is still moving with its own inertia. It might well over-compress its spring which would fatigue it earlier than expected. If the bolt velocity is fixed after the ejector spring went bad then you still have to replace that spring.

Fixed ejector guns like AKs don't have problems overgassing in this way.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 10:01:07 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SodbusterCVG:



Consider what the bolt velocity does to the ejector spring in a plunger ejector. When the bolt slams into the back of the receiver at high speed the plunger is still moving with its own inertia. It might well over-compress its spring which would fatigue it earlier than expected. If the bolt velocity is fixed after the ejector spring went bad then you still have to replace that spring.

Fixed ejector guns like AKs don't have problems overgassing in this way.
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I agree and think that routinely changing out the ejector spring every 1000 rounds along with the hbi piston spring would be a way to keep the reliability of this platform 100%. If Cz would offer new gas regulators with smaller gas port sizes I think that would help alot. I wouldnt be surprised if hbi wasnt in the process now i developing their own gas regulators to address this issue. I wish we coukld find out what size ports are used for the military units. Although Im sure they are tuned to whatever specific ammo the individual units are using and not to use with all types of surplus ammo.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 10:44:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2020 10:56:46 AM EST by BisonWorld]
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Originally Posted By gonnasellstuff:

I agree and think that routinely changing out the ejector spring every 1000 rounds along with the hbi piston spring would be a way to keep the reliability of this platform 100%. If Cz would offer new gas regulators with smaller gas port sizes I think that would help alot. I wouldnt be surprised if hbi wasnt in the process now i developing their own gas regulators to address this issue. I wish we coukld find out what size ports are used for the military units. Although Im sure they are tuned to whatever specific ammo the individual units are using and not to use with all types of surplus ammo.
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Ejector spring has a maintenance replacement schedule of 10,000 from what I've seen.

The select fire guns all have larger ports per barrel size/caliber than the semi auto guns, but they also use a different carrier system with added dynamics to consider passed a simple weight increase. (They posses spring-loaded weighted rods, i believe for the purpose of helping prevent bolt bounce and modifying cyclic rate in FA)  So comparing the port sizes would be very apples to oranges in nature.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 11:50:04 AM EST
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Originally Posted By gonnasellstuff:

I agree and think that routinely changing out the ejector spring every 1000 rounds along with the hbi piston spring would be a way to keep the reliability of this platform 100%. If Cz would offer new gas regulators with smaller gas port sizes I think that would help alot. I wouldnt be surprised if hbi wasnt in the process now i developing their own gas regulators to address this issue.
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Every 1k rounds would be super frequent especially considering you can't even buy the springs from CZ. Maybe someone will find another source of the springs. With plunger ejectors being pretty common across a lot of other platforms it's possible that something else would work well enough to restore functionality to problem guns until CZ gets proper parts out. Also, let's pray it's not a different spring than the 5.56 guns. If CZ decides to drop the 7.62 guns because of problems then parts support may get dropped with it over time.

HBI said they used the piston spring in combination with new gas port to avoid using a smaller port since the smaller one exhibits port erosion sooner than a larger one. If they did end up offering their own regulators it would likely be for people who don't want to worry about voiding their warranty with modifying the original factory part. I imagine the port would be the same as what they do with the drilling service and would come with their heavier piston spring as well.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 3:07:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SodbusterCVG:


Every 1k rounds would be super frequent especially considering you can't even buy the springs from CZ. Maybe someone will find another source of the springs. With plunger ejectors being pretty common across a lot of other platforms it's possible that something else would work well enough to restore functionality to problem guns until CZ gets proper parts out. Also, let's pray it's not a different spring than the 5.56 guns. If CZ decides to drop the 7.62 guns because of problems then parts support may get dropped with it over time.

HBI said they used the piston spring in combination with new gas port to avoid using a smaller port since the smaller one exhibits port erosion sooner than a larger one. If they did end up offering their own regulators it would likely be for people who don't want to worry about voiding their warranty with modifying the original factory part. I imagine the port would be the same as what they do with the drilling service and would come with their heavier piston spring as well.
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The problem is with these guns that these springs are wearing out with basically no notice. Ive heard of guys that had issues straight out of box to flawless to 6000 rounds and then all of a sudden 8 out of 30 rounds not extracting. I dont trust these springs much more than a thousand rounds because issues happening at any and all round counts. If it were just over gassing the issues would start immediately.  We need to find a source to get ejector, extractor and guide rod springs for these. The ones from Cz arent holding up and they arent selling any parts. I know for a fact my ejector springs in my 762x39 Bren 2s's were mangled up and not working correctly. I dont know if bolt velocity caused or if defective from factory but I know this to be my issue. The 556 models I have have been flawless with many thousands of rounds through them.
Link Posted: 12/28/2020 5:45:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gonnasellstuff:

The problem is with these guns that these springs are wearing out with basically no notice. Ive heard of guys that had issues straight out of box to flawless to 6000 rounds and then all of a sudden 8 out of 30 rounds not extracting. I dont trust these springs much more than a thousand rounds because issues happening at any and all round counts. If it were just over gassing the issues would start immediately.  We need to find a source to get ejector, extractor and guide rod springs for these. The ones from Cz arent holding up and they arent selling any parts. I know for a fact my ejector springs in my 762x39 Bren 2s's were mangled up and not working correctly. I dont know if bolt velocity caused or if defective from factory but I know this to be my issue. The 556 models I have have been flawless with many thousands of rounds through them.
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If they are mangled up then it's a chance they were installed incorrectly.  I can try to check my ejector spring when I get home. I know my extractor spring looks completely fine. Honestly, I would love to see if the BCM extractor spring WITHOUT the o ring would be of benefit and not cause the extractor to break.

I am with you on this, I do really believe it is as simple as a extractor/ejector spring issue and have felt that way for a while. I believe the overgassing is a separate issue that also didnt help the first issue.
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 10:03:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mdavis:

Exactly why I grabbed a 8" 2S in 5.56 and haven't jumped into a 2MS yet. Although, I would wager that the 2MS Carbine doesn't have the aforementioned issues.
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Well I hope it works out with the carbine. Looks like the hand guard was made by hbi, which have had some issues, such as questions on the proper torque settings for the screws for the critical barrel / receiver / hand guard junction. Looking at the BR and the military Brens, they either have an extended receiver / fore end (no separate hand guard) or a lot more screws holding the barrel / receiver / hand guard together.
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 10:35:22 AM EST
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Originally Posted By MeatAxe556:



Well I hope it works out with the carbine. Looks like the hand guard was made by hbi, which have had some issues, such as questions on the proper torque settings for the screws for the critical barrel / receiver / hand guard junction. Looking at the BR and the military Brens, they either have an extended receiver / fore end (no separate hand guard) or a lot more screws holding the barrel / receiver / hand guard together.
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Originally Posted By MeatAxe556:
Originally Posted By mdavis:

Exactly why I grabbed a 8" 2S in 5.56 and haven't jumped into a 2MS yet. Although, I would wager that the 2MS Carbine doesn't have the aforementioned issues.



Well I hope it works out with the carbine. Looks like the hand guard was made by hbi, which have had some issues, such as questions on the proper torque settings for the screws for the critical barrel / receiver / hand guard junction. Looking at the BR and the military Brens, they either have an extended receiver / fore end (no separate hand guard) or a lot more screws holding the barrel / receiver / hand guard together.

Does HBI make the Carbine's handguard? I was under the impression that CZ made the Carbine's handguard and the HBI versions for the pistols was their own design.
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 3:14:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2020 6:57:11 PM EST by MeatAxe556]
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Originally Posted By mdavis:

Does HBI make the Carbine's handguard? I was under the impression that CZ made the Carbine's handguard and the HBI versions for the pistols was their own design.
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The carbine hand guard looks very similar to hbi’s products in design and execution (I.e.: only 4 screws holding the barrel/receiver/hand guard together). I believe I read that CZ and hbi have been working together on such parts, so it would make sense for CZ to use hbi as a subcontractor, especially for 922r compliant rifle parts, since the Little Rock plant is not yet begun.  

It would actually make more sense and result in a more robust unit if CZ would drop the 2Ms model with its non-functional added “hand guard” and go back to the extended receiver 2S model with its better barrel to receiver connection and M-lock accessibility. An extended hand guard accessory could simply be added to the end of the receiver by M-lock connections without interfering with the barrel / receiver junction.

This unergonomic and non-functional 2Ms “hand guard” contrivance seems primarily designed by CZ to separate Bren 2 customers from more of their cash than for any functionality.
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 6:58:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gonnasellstuff:

I know for a fact my ejector springs in my 762x39 Bren 2s's were mangled up and not working correctly. I dont know if bolt velocity caused or if defective from factory but I know this to be my issue. The 556 models I have have been flawless with many thousands of rounds through them.
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Being that these are assembled in jigs and other equipment to make it easy on the worker, the likelihood that the spring was assembled incorrectly is low.

If you ever followed some of the issues with the CMMG radial delayed blowback guns you might remember they had ejection issues that would pop up sometimes in 500 to 2000 rounds. Plunger ejector springs would be pulled and would look horribly mangled. Guys would get new ones from CMMG and put them in, only for them to come back out mangled after another 1-2k rounds. Dudes using them in competition just kept up with spring changes in their round counts. Another guy cut a bolt to make it work with a fixed ejector to solve the problem once and for all.

Plunger ejector springs just look mangled when they've hit their failure point.
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 5:46:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 9:38:50 AM EST
I am told that I will receive my BREN 2 MS in 5.56mm soon.
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 2:43:18 PM EST
Is there any word from CZ on the issue?  They have had my pistol since 8-24-20.
Link Posted: 1/1/2021 8:08:34 AM EST
I asked for an update on their Facebook last week, got this reply:

"Early this month we hosted the CZUB design team to allow them to do extensive testing with an assortment of ammo available in the US that isn't available in the Czech Republic. When that team has information we can release, we will happily do so!"
Link Posted: 1/1/2021 4:20:06 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Tfdarchos:
I asked for an update on their Facebook last week, got this reply:

"Early this month we hosted the CZUB design team to allow them to do extensive testing with an assortment of ammo available in the US that isn't available in the Czech Republic. When that team has information we can release, we will happily do so!"
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Oof still trying to blame ammo as the cause?
Link Posted: 1/1/2021 6:40:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2021 6:45:55 PM EST by SodbusterCVG]
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Originally Posted By Tfdarchos:
"Early this month we hosted the CZUB design team to allow them to do extensive testing with an assortment of ammo available in the US that isn't available in the Czech Republic. When that team has information we can release, we will happily do so!"
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What's funny is that 7.62x39 ammo in America isn't some unique animal unless you're counting the Winchester white box or Hornady SST loads. Everything else is made in Europe or Asia mostly in former combloc countries. I'm sure >90% of the ammo shot through these guns have been Tula, Wolf, and Brown/Silver Bear. There might be a handful of PPU brass-cased rounds and a rare few American Eagle.

If I were putting money on this, I'd bet they're looking at whether the changes they made to the semi-auto carrier resulted in the problems they have now. My understanding is that GIGN adopted the 7.62x39 Bren 2. If there were problems they probably would have found them since those dudes train a lot. It's also possible that the 7.62x39 Bren 2 gas system was optimized for whatever specialized load GIGN is running and is not well suited to standard 123gr steel-cased ammo.
Link Posted: 1/1/2021 8:39:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SodbusterCVG:


What's funny is that 7.62x39 ammo in America isn't some unique animal unless you're counting the Winchester white box or Hornady SST loads. Everything else is made in Europe or Asia mostly in former combloc countries. I'm sure >90% of the ammo shot through these guns have been Tula, Wolf, and Brown/Silver Bear. There might be a handful of PPU brass-cased rounds and a rare few American Eagle.

If I were putting money on this, I'd bet they're looking at whether the changes they made to the semi-auto carrier resulted in the problems they have now. My understanding is that GIGN adopted the 7.62x39 Bren 2. If there were problems they probably would have found them since those dudes train a lot. It's also possible that the 7.62x39 Bren 2 gas system was optimized for whatever specialized load GIGN is running and is not well suited to standard 123gr steel-cased ammo.
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Like Bison explained earlier in  the thread the military version bolt arrier is much different than the S or Ms model. It has 2 springs in the back of it and is more beefier. Also the gas block and system is different. They are also tuned to the specific ammo of choice by the military or le units using them. They are not looking to have weapons made to use surplus ammo like us in the USA. Whatever the fix for the X39 S and Ms system is wont be from comparing to the military issued Brens
Link Posted: 1/2/2021 3:17:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2021 3:50:02 PM EST by MeatAxe556]
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Originally Posted By gonnasellstuff:

Like Bison explained earlier in  the thread the military version bolt arrier is much different than the S or Ms model. It has 2 springs in the back of it and is more beefier. Also the gas block and system is different. They are also tuned to the specific ammo of choice by the military or le units using them. They are not looking to have weapons made to use surplus ammo like us in the USA. Whatever the fix for the X39 S and Ms system is wont be from comparing to the military issued Brens
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I don't know about the beefier bolt / carrier, but it seems that the full auto military CZ 807 has a single recoil spring, like the Bren 2. Whether it's stiffer than the Bren 2 recoil spring, I don't know. Aside from the adjustment knob on the gas tube, all other gas system parts on the 807 appear to be similar, if not identical, to those of the Bren 2.

http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/torture-tests-the-cz-807-ai/


At any rate, to cope with various ammo loads, I think the Bren 2 needs to have multiple gas regulator settings like the FAL, SCAR and Rob Arms XCR, etc. not just 2 or even 3 gas tube ports. Also, I'm thinking most of the FTE issues are due to poor quality control (barrel / gas block ports drilled too large) at CZ UB as they rush to kick as many guns out the door as possible during this panic-demic, which would explain why most Bren 2s run fine, while others shit the bed because they're way over-gassed.
Link Posted: 1/2/2021 4:10:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By MeatAxe556:



I don't know about the beefier bolt / carrier, but it seems that the full auto military CZ 807 has a single recoil spring, like the Bren 2. Whether it's stiffer than the Bren 2 recoil spring, I don't know. Aside from the adjustment knob on the gas tube, all other gas system parts on the 807 appear to be similar, if not identical, to those of the Bren 2.

http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/torture-tests-the-cz-807-ai/


At any rate, to cope with various ammo loads, I think the Bren 2 needs to have multiple gas regulator settings like the FAL, SCAR and Rob Arms XCR, etc. not just 2 or even 3 gas tube ports. Also, I'm thinking most of the FTE issues are due to poor quality control (barrel / gas block ports drilled too large) at CZ UB as they rush to kick as many guns out the door as possible during this panic-demic, which would explain why most Bren 2s run fine, while others shit the bed because they're way over-gassed.
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807 is not the same platform and comparisons to it would be like adding pears to our apples and oranges bren 2 (select fire) vs bren 2s/ms conversation. It's not additional recoil springs which the select fire variants have, but spring-loaded, reciprocating weighted rods in the carrier.
Link Posted: 1/3/2021 8:57:03 AM EST
FWIW my 9in eats tula/red army/golden tiger etc no problem. Imho in ALL the failure to extract issues I've experienced in the past that was extractor spring related it was because the manufacturer didn't heat treat the spring correctly (have had multiple manufacturers claim this, it's because they're batch treated, and sometimes they get double stack and don't recieve the proper thermal cycle). Usually replacing these springs with quality units fixes this issue.
Link Posted: 1/3/2021 9:23:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2021 9:42:10 AM EST by MeatAxe556]
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Originally Posted By BisonWorld:



807 is not the same platform and comparisons to it would be like adding pears to our apples and oranges bren 2 (select fire) vs bren 2s/ms conversation. It's not additional recoil springs which the select fire variants have, but spring-loaded, reciprocating weighted rods in the carrier.
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Ok, I read your earlier post about the full auto Brens having a heavier bolt carrier with spring loaded rods and larger barrel gas ports than the Ms guns. By comparison with the 807 pic, the 2Ms & 2S semi auto carriers have their tops scalloped off, presumedly to lighten them, whereas the full auto carriers have a couple of holes drilled in them (for the rods?).

If that’s  correct about the full auto guns having bigger barrel ports, it wouldn’t surprise me that CZ, in its haste to kick as many guns out the door during the current political panic-demic, probably dropped the qc ball on individual semi auto guns by fitting them with barrels drilled with full auto gas ports, resulting in over gassed Semi auto guns with the fte issues we see. The fix would be properly ported replacement  barrels, but; of course, there are no spare parts available...
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 11:38:30 AM EST
It's incredible that we've yet to receive even a single spare part for this platform.  I would advise everyone to purchase the HBI recoil spring if you shoot even remotely often, there is no way I would have conducted my 1,200 round testing otherwise.  

My Bren 2S experienced no failures of any kind during that testing phase with the prototype HBI recoil spring, which I'm thinking was tuned even better for final production.  Also, there is some very 'good advice' being posted here, especially concerning the ejector spring people should pay attention to.
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 3:41:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2021 5:09:02 PM EST by SodbusterCVG]
I have an 11-inch 7.62x39 2Ms in that I'm going to try to get out and shoot tomorrow after a steel plate match. The 'Rona prevented me from shooting it in April when I bought it. Then I started seeing the reports of problems so I decided to hold off on shooting it as it sounded like there was a likelihood of accelerated wear going on.

Mods:
- HBI Op rod spring
- Dan Haga ACR rear plate with Tailhook brace
- HBI Trigger
- HBI Extended charging handle

I have the HBI 8" handguard but haven't installed it just in case there's some change in function.

I'm planning on shooting around 100-200 rounds. Ammo is Wolf 123gr HP poly-coated and Tula 124gr HP. I'll also shoot a box of Fiocci 123gr FMJ since that's a brass-case and I'm curious if it's weaker than the steel. Plus, it seems S&B brass ammo is what CZUSA is using for testing when everything works.

Weather for tomorrow should have me shooting in temperatures between 35-40F. I'll leave the gun and ammo in my car in the garage overnight to let them get cold. I'm curious about how well the stronger spring works with cold. Often when guns are tuned to work in the summer they end up too weak to cycle properly in the winter.

I have a camera that can do 120fps so I'll record on that. I don't know that I'll have enough battery to record every shot, but I'll get what I can. I'll post the video link when I get it all together.

Oh, and I don't have a suppressor or drilled "0" gas position. All of this will be the standard barrel configuration as it ships and in the "normal" gas setting. If I have failures to cycle with the cold + HBI spring I'll try it on "adverse".

More gun detail:
- 2019 manufacturer date
- Serial: D117xxx
- 31 coil hammer spring
- Gas ports (forgive my lack of pin gauges):
  - 1 Position: Fit a 1/16" drill bit shaft [0.0625" or 1.59mm]
  - 2 Position: Fit a 3/32" drill bit shaft [0.0938" or 2.38mm]
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 5:34:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Sweet5ltr:
It's incredible that we've yet to receive even a single spare part for this platform.  I would advise everyone to purchase the HBI recoil spring if you shoot even remotely often, there is no way I would have conducted my 1,200 round testing otherwise.  

My Bren 2S experienced no failures of any kind during that testing phase with the prototype HBI recoil spring, which I'm thinking was tuned even better for final production.  Also, there is some very 'good advice' being posted here, especially concerning the ejector spring people should pay attention to.
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I'm not selling mine, but I am not shooting it either. It's still new in the box (8") I've shelved my plans for a rifle, and only see this as a disposable item, until stock kits and parts show up. 2 years, is plainly, _bullshit_
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 9:46:01 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SodbusterCVG:
I have an 11-inch 7.62x39 2Ms in that I'm going to try to get out and shoot tomorrow after a steel plate match. The 'Rona prevented me from shooting it in April when I bought it. Then I started seeing the reports of problems so I decided to hold off on shooting it as it sounded like there was a likelihood of accelerated wear going on.

Mods:
- HBI Op rod spring
- Dan Haga ACR rear plate with Tailhook brace
- HBI Trigger
- HBI Extended charging handle

I have the HBI 8" handguard but haven't installed it just in case there's some change in function.

I'm planning on shooting around 100-200 rounds. Ammo is Wolf 123gr HP poly-coated and Tula 124gr HP. I'll also shoot a box of Fiocci 123gr FMJ since that's a brass-case and I'm curious if it's weaker than the steel. Plus, it seems S&B brass ammo is what CZUSA is using for testing when everything works.

Weather for tomorrow should have me shooting in temperatures between 35-40F. I'll leave the gun and ammo in my car in the garage overnight to let them get cold. I'm curious about how well the stronger spring works with cold. Often when guns are tuned to work in the summer they end up too weak to cycle properly in the winter.

I have a camera that can do 120fps so I'll record on that. I don't know that I'll have enough battery to record every shot, but I'll get what I can. I'll post the video link when I get it all together.

Oh, and I don't have a suppressor or drilled "0" gas position. All of this will be the standard barrel configuration as it ships and in the "normal" gas setting. If I have failures to cycle with the cold + HBI spring I'll try it on "adverse".

More gun detail:
- 2019 manufacturer date
- Serial: D117xxx
- 31 coil hammer spring
- Gas ports (forgive my lack of pin gauges):
  - 1 Position: Fit a 1/16" drill bit shaft [0.0625" or 1.59mm]
  - 2 Position: Fit a 3/32" drill bit shaft [0.0938" or 2.38mm]
View Quote


You'll be good to go.  The HBI recoil spring is a dramatic improvement, but it still has plenty of excess gas to cycle.
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 10:17:17 PM EST
I did take my 9" out again with the hbi spring. After 4 rounds I did encounter a stovepipe. I then switched to suppressed with my reduced port and encountered many stovepipes as well. The last 20 rounds I shot failed to eject every single round.

I have yet to inspect my ejector spring, extractor and extractor spring were fine.

I did test the extractor with a spent case while out of the rifle and it throws the case very lethargically compared to an ar15 with the same test.
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 10:17:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2021 10:19:44 PM EST by Johnny_Longslide]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cryo_tech:

I'm not selling mine, but I am not shooting it either. It's still new in the box (8") I've shelved my plans for a rifle, and only see this as a disposable item, until stock kits and parts show up. 2 years, is plainly, _bullshit_
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Paper weight. Sucks

I have 3 Brens in 5.56, an 11" and two 8". One of the 8"s will be a spare at this point in the game.

Luckily all of mine are functioning flawlessly.

Link Posted: 1/6/2021 2:26:04 AM EST
Anyone still have their gun at CZ?  My 2S has been with them for approaching 4 months at this point and their 'weekly' update only lasted 2 weeks.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 8:59:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2021 9:02:28 AM EST by Kian503]
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Originally Posted By apocalypserisin:
Anyone still have their gun at CZ?  My 2S has been with them for approaching 4 months at this point and their 'weekly' update only lasted 2 weeks.
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Mine has been there since 11-17-20.  From what I am seeing on Bren2 reddit there are a couple people who have had their guns there for some time with no communication from CZ.

I have also now read two people report they are still getting FTE's even with the HBI beefy spring.

I still agree with Tim of M.A.C. that this is not just a gassing issue.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 11:56:27 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Kian503:


Mine has been there since 11-17-20.  From what I am seeing on Bren2 reddit there are a couple people who have had their guns there for some time with no communication from CZ.

I have also now read two people report they are still getting FTE's even with the HBI beefy spring.

I still agree with Tim of M.A.C. that this is not just a gassing issue.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Kian503:
Originally Posted By apocalypserisin:
Anyone still have their gun at CZ?  My 2S has been with them for approaching 4 months at this point and their 'weekly' update only lasted 2 weeks.


Mine has been there since 11-17-20.  From what I am seeing on Bren2 reddit there are a couple people who have had their guns there for some time with no communication from CZ.

I have also now read two people report they are still getting FTE's even with the HBI beefy spring.

I still agree with Tim of M.A.C. that this is not just a gassing issue.



Some people were saying that their extractor springs were all mangled up, so perhaps the extreme over gassing added to that and they need replacements of those as well as smaller gas port sizes.
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 12:07:31 PM EST
It's shameful we can't get spare parts.
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 6:05:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:
It's shameful we can't get spare parts.
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At one point, you could almost order every bit of the 805 except the receiver from their web store.  The 805 was done right and I still feel like it's one of the most complete and nicest out-of-the-box firearms I've ever purchased.

They're beyond dropping the ball on the Bren 2 at this point.  I love CZ but the Bren 2 is a dog; it's US release was totally botched and they need to go back to the drawing board.  Bring back the 805 or work on a Bren 3.

I have a hard time believing they didn't think to test it with ammo from Tula or Barnaul given their ubiquity on the world market.  I would understand excluding Tula, but Barnaul lacquered 7.62x39 is like the bread and butter of the AK world.  (Well, maybe cheap Chinese shit that isn't available in the US anymore edges it out, but whatever.)  I guess Ruger says you should only use expensive American brass 7.62x39 in the Mini-30, so anything is possible.

I'd say the Bushmaster ACR had a smoother launch back in 2008 than the Bren 2 has. Probably easier to get parts for an ACR too, and Bushmaster/Remington are gone.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 12:07:50 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Findsman:

At one point, you could almost order every bit of the 805 except the receiver from their web store.  The 805 was done right and I still feel like it's one of the most complete and nicest out-of-the-box firearms I've ever purchased.

They're beyond dropping the ball on the Bren 2 at this point.  I love CZ but the Bren 2 is a dog; it's US release was totally botched and they need to go back to the drawing board.  Bring back the 805 or work on a Bren 3.

I have a hard time believing they didn't think to test it with ammo from Tula or Barnaul given their ubiquity on the world market.  I would understand excluding Tula, but Barnaul lacquered 7.62x39 is like the bread and butter of the AK world.  (Well, maybe cheap Chinese shit that isn't available in the US anymore edges it out, but whatever.)  I guess Ruger says you should only use expensive American brass 7.62x39 in the Mini-30, so anything is possible.

I'd say the Bushmaster ACR had a smoother launch back in 2008 than the Bren 2 has. Probably easier to get parts for an ACR too, and Bushmaster/Remington are gone.
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I completely agree.  I owned both the Bren 2 and 805 and I honestly preferred the 805.  The 805 was probably one of my favorite rifles EVER made.  I tend to like classic guns like the AUG, AK-47, FAL, etc., rather than stuff like the Tavor, Galil ACE, SCAR, etc.  The 805 was one of the few modern guns I truly, truly really loved shooting.  Yeah it was heavy, but I liked the weight.  It also shot real smooth and felt even smoother than my Bren 2, IMO.

As you can see from my title I am a CZ nut, so it's sad to see them really screw up the Bren 2 release like they have.  Before reading your post I was reading some of the other stuff in this thread and it made me think exactly of the ACR as you mentioned.  I just can't believe CZ has dropped the ball this badly on these guns.  I was sooooo excited for the Bren 2 BR.  I don't think I've ever been as excited for a gun as I was for that thing to hopefully come stateside.  With Joe Biden and Komrade Kamala likely going to strike an import ban at some point, in addition to the issues with the Bren 2 Ms I just feel like the BR variant won't ever make it here unless CZ tools up in their new facility later on for it; and before they even think of doing that they have to make the issues with the current guns right.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 7:50:48 AM EST
Thought I would share a pic of my final setup for now ?

Link Posted: 1/9/2021 11:25:12 AM EST
Just panic bought a Bren 2 MS in .556 and joined the club.  I really wanted the 11" pistol, but had to settle for the 9 inch variety as it was the only one still "reasonably" priced.  C'est la vie.   If CZ ever releases spare barrel sets, I'll pick up an 11.

Anyway, I'm navigating through this thread but its lengthy and lately mostly focused on issues with the 7.62 guns.  Can anyone give me the TLDR version of which specific parts/adapters I need to install a pistol brace for the closest look to the .mil stock?



Link Posted: 1/9/2021 12:30:14 PM EST
11" 5.56, running without issue so far.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 1:44:32 PM EST
Picked up a couple hundred rounds of that funky 46gr poly bullet czech low recoil rounds from sg last week, finally made it out to function test. I get no last round bho in setting 1 (7.62x39 9in) so turned up to 2, runs like a top. Low recoil fireball mag dumps woot! Put 762sdn6 can on and turned down back to 1, get a stove pipe a mag. Didn't try it on 2 as I was getting last round bho on 1. Any suggestions how to fix?  My 300blk AR had same issue and added o ring to extractor spring and it quit (assuming harsh extraction due to pistol length non adjustable gas on my AR). Is that an option for the bren? Probably same size one would think.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 3:04:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2021 3:06:19 PM EST by Sweet5ltr]
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Originally Posted By richiemfmead:
Picked up a couple hundred rounds of that funky 46gr poly bullet czech low recoil rounds from sg last week, finally made it out to function test. I get no last round bho in setting 1 (7.62x39 9in) so turned up to 2, runs like a top. Low recoil fireball mag dumps woot! Put 762sdn6 can on and turned down back to 1, get a stove pipe a mag. Didn't try it on 2 as I was getting last round bho on 1. Any suggestions how to fix?  My 300blk AR had same issue and added o ring to extractor spring and it quit (assuming harsh extraction due to pistol length non adjustable gas on my AR). Is that an option for the bren? Probably same size one would think.
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Not sure how long you've been on this thread, the stovepipe situation isn't extractor related - so don't focus your attention on the extractor.  I would install an HBI recoil spring, no one should own a 7.62x39 Bren 2 and not have this spring installed at this point, it's inexpensive and incredibly effective.  Second, don't even think about suppressing this without drilling out position (3) or sending your gas regulator to HBI, as they also offer that service.  I would hate to see you damage the BCG at this time, as CZ-USA literally has no spare parts.  HBI conducted suppressor testing on my Bren 2S to work out the proper port sizing.  Lastly, make sure your ejector spring is not binding and there are no machining related debris in the channel, that is a very common issue.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 3:15:48 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Kian503:


Mine has been there since 11-17-20.  From what I am seeing on Bren2 reddit there are a couple people who have had their guns there for some time with no communication from CZ.

I have also now read two people report they are still getting FTE's even with the HBI beefy spring.

I still agree with Tim of M.A.C. that this is not just a gassing issue.
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It's never been just a gassing issue Kian, I thought you knew this?  🙂

Everyone needs to inspect their bolt, including the ejector spring to verify its not binding and no metal shavings or debris are in the channel.  Don't disassemble the bolt unless you're comfortable putting it back together of course.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 3:20:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Tfdarchos:
I did take my 9" out again with the hbi spring. After 4 rounds I did encounter a stovepipe. I then switched to suppressed with my reduced port and encountered many stovepipes as well. The last 20 rounds I shot failed to eject every single round.

I have yet to inspect my ejector spring, extractor and extractor spring were fine.

I did test the extractor with a spent case while out of the rifle and it throws the case very lethargically compared to an ar15 with the same test.
View Quote


Inspect the first spring you mentioned ^
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 5:51:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Sweet5ltr:


Not sure how long you've been on this thread, the stovepipe situation isn't extractor related - so don't focus your attention on the extractor.  I would install an HBI recoil spring, no one should own a 7.62x39 Bren 2 and not have this spring installed at this point, it's inexpensive and incredibly effective.  Second, don't even think about suppressing this without drilling out position (3) or sending your gas regulator to HBI, as they also offer that service.  I would hate to see you damage the BCG at this time, as CZ-USA literally has no spare parts.  HBI conducted suppressor testing on my Bren 2S to work out the proper port sizing.  Lastly, make sure your ejector spring is not binding and there are no machining related debris in the channel, that is a very common issue.
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Not terribly long, mine runs subs with can on and supers without just fine. It's only overgased supers w/can. Also does the HBI recoil spring replace that little rubber buffer at the back? Mine has become swollen and is terribly difficult to get out of the rear of the reciever to the point I have to pry it out with a flathead or knife. There is no "proper" gas port sizing unless tested with YOUR specific can. I did learn today that the 9in needs more hand guard because gas blocks get hot lol (stupid mistake).
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 7:01:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Sweet5ltr:


Inspect the first spring you mentioned ^
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Oh I definitely did, found quite a few metallic shavings when I pulled the spring out, the spring was also slightly bent. I had to pound out the plunger as it was binding on the way out. After a good cleaning the plunger drops right into the channel. I tested ejection with a spent case with the bolt out of gun and it performed much better this time. I will try to test the gun again when I have time.
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