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Posted: 6/4/2009 12:13:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 12:15:21 PM EST by Pav56C]
Has anybody ever used this vest. I have a 3A under vest and I want a MOLLE vest that will except the panels and allow for the use fo plates in the future.

It seems like a good cheap alternative to the $300+ vests.

Oh shit I should prob include the link: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=MOLLE-118
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:35:18 PM EST
if its made by Voodoo it is probably ok. I have a cheaper than dirt chest rig that is built well. I dont really like the design but the construction is good. I have a Voodoo rifle case that kicks ass. I dont know about a plate carrier though because it is under alot of stress
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:59:55 PM EST
dude, to be honest with you. if you can swing it. pony up the extra $100 and get the eagle Plate carrier and cummerbund. As i've owned a CTD plate carrier, i can honestly say i'll never own another. coming to this forum, amongst others, really opened my eyes to what is out there. trust me, buy a quality piece of kit and you'll never second guess yourself.

btw, you didn't post the information we normally we request, that's posted in the before you ask questions thread. what's your useage? budget? etc.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 2:05:22 PM EST
Just found out it is made by Condor.

Evrything I have heard tells me its a good company.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 2:31:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Pav56C:
Has anybody ever used this vest. I have a 3A under vest and I want a MOLLE vest that will except the panels and allow for the use fo plates in the future.

It seems like a good cheap alternative to the $300+ vests.

Oh shit I should prob include the link: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=MOLLE-118



I saw the same vest and thought about it. I emailed them and they said that it will take soft panels but didn't provide dimensions or anything like that. They did say that if I bought it, and the panels didn't fit, they would take it back.

Just a suggestion, but check out the modular panel carrier from Tactical Tailor. I was using one for my soft IIIA armor. Downside is there are no plate pockets, but if you contact them they will do one custom for you with plate pockets that probably won't cost you much more than the $138 price.

Tactical Tailor just started selling a Hybrid Enhanced Vest (H.E.V.) which does have that $300 price tag, but looks awesome. I just ordered one for the new IIIA panels I was issued. Should have it in about a week and if anyone is interested, I'll post a review and some photos.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 2:37:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Pav56C:
Just found out it is made by Condor.

Evrything I have heard tells me its a good company.


quit reading on airsoft forums. your being misguided.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 2:50:01 PM EST
For the love of god don't do it. I can almost guarantee you that in the end you will end up getting a quality rig anyway so why waist the time and money. I think diamondback tactical has some on sale right now that are just a little more than the CTD but worlds better.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 3:13:19 PM EST
You might want to check out this link. This vest is not that more expensive and will last you a much longer time. If you are planning to run armor, that means your willing to trust this gear with your life. Buy from a reputable manufacturer. Even the "low end of the high end gear" is better than CTD crap. Don't buy Condor - ever!

Skiddy
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 4:03:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 4:16:00 PM EST by Pav56C]
money is a huge factor here,

I think Im gonna give it a try and see how it works out, unless there is someone here who has it and can tell me it is absolute crap.

This vest is primarily for range/ training/ and oh shit times so it doesnt have to be the best of the best.

I appreciate your comments and I do have BH gear and know the difference in quality, although Im in no way firmilair with Condor.

So does anybody have this that can comment on it?


Add:

I have looked around at other sites, I am fond of Diamondback, but I cant find anything at a decent price that will hold soft panels, or at least says it will.

Also check Eagle out as I have always liked them aswell, and again i cant find anything to suit my needs. It either has armor or its not made to take it.

I guess Ill keep shopping around.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 4:18:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 4:19:06 PM EST by Skiddy79]
What is your budget?

I just don't want to see you spend your money on cheaply made gear that won't hold up for 2 range sessions.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 4:22:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 4:27:55 PM EST by Pav56C]
Originally Posted By Skiddy79:
What is your budget?

I just don't want to see you spend your money on cheaply made gear that won't hold up for 2 range sessions.


like to keep it under 100, Im already 200 in with the IIIA vest, and then Itll be an easy 50+ in MOLLE gear.

Its an expensive addiction.... Id prob be better off addicted to crack cause its cheaper, haha


EDIT:

Also looking at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Point-Blank-R20-D-Tactical-Outershell-Carrier-VEST-42-L_W0QQitemZ290319998605QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Security_Fire_Protection?hash=item43986b9e8d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C240%3­A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

I used to have one and it was okay, I couldnt complain about it at all. Tried to win one recently but lost the auction. I guess Ill give it another run,
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 4:30:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By Pav56C:
Originally Posted By Skiddy79:
What is your budget?

I just don't want to see you spend your money on cheaply made gear that won't hold up for 2 range sessions.


like to keep it under 100, Im already 200 in with the IIIA vest, and then Itll be an easy 50+ in MOLLE gear.

Its an expensive addiction.... Id prob be better off addicted to crack cause its cheaper, haha


EDIT:

Also looking at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Point-Blank-R20-D-Tactical-Outershell-Carrier-VEST-42-L_W0QQitemZ290319998605QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Security_Fire_Protection?hash=item43986b9e8d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C240%3­A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

I used to have one and it was okay, I couldnt complain about it at all. Tried to win one recently but lost the auction. I guess Ill give it another run,


not to be an ass here. but how much is your life worth? i mean if your buying armor......
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 4:39:30 PM EST
+1 The difference in price between the CTD and the BHI vest is $53.00. Just saying, that isn't much for running an armor system.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 4:40:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By calicojack:
Originally Posted By Pav56C:
Originally Posted By Skiddy79:
What is your budget?

I just don't want to see you spend your money on cheaply made gear that won't hold up for 2 range sessions.


like to keep it under 100, Im already 200 in with the IIIA vest, and then Itll be an easy 50+ in MOLLE gear.

Its an expensive addiction.... Id prob be better off addicted to crack cause its cheaper, haha


EDIT:

Also looking at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/Point-Blank-R20-D-Tactical-Outershell-Carrier-VEST-42-L_W0QQitemZ290319998605QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Security_Fire_Protection?hash=item43986b9e8d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C240%3­A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

I used to have one and it was okay, I couldnt complain about it at all. Tried to win one recently but lost the auction. I guess Ill give it another run,


not to be an ass here. but how much is your life worth? i mean if your buying armor......



Why you ask? you looking to buy, haha.

Unfortunatly money is not something that I have the ability to throw around.
I have the IIIA vest and thats good. Thats is that part actually "protects" you. the carrier, a concealable type, works perfectly.
I would like to get an over carrier that can be worn atop a uniform with MOLLE straps for mags, etc.
The carriers job is not to defeat the bullet, its simply to hold the panels that will. As long as the vest can do that I dont see the big deal from one to another.
Yes I understand some will last longer, and some will flat out fall apart ( I love it when that happens) but aslong as the vest is holding the armor in place what differenceis the cost?
Shit i could wrap myslef and the panels in duct tape and it would do the trick.

Maybe my logic is all off but I know the Point Blank is a goos peice of equipment I once had it and for such a price I willl jump on it if I can.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 5:14:29 PM EST
You already have the armor in a carrier and just need something to put over it to support MOLLE - roger that. Have you considered a chest rig? This one is all MOLLE and these have various pouches sewn on. $59.00 - $85.00 and made by Eagle. If your not going to put armor in the armor/plate carriers, I would recommend not getting one. They tend to not ride right without armor. Or you could get a simple all MOLLE vest that isn't designed to carry armor. Something like this. You would be getting much better kit for the same or less price.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 5:17:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By Pav56C:


I have the IIIA vest and thats good. Thats is that part actually "protects" you. the carrier, a concealable type, works perfectly.
I would like to get an over carrier that can be worn atop a uniform with MOLLE straps for mags, etc.

The carriers job is not to defeat the bullet, its simply to hold the panels that will. As long as the vest can do that I dont see the big deal from one to another.



no, the carriers hold PLATES, you know for rifle rounds, and a big part of the 'big deal' is how well they deal with the weight of it all, and how it
rides on your body.

with your top example, you could just use a chest rig.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 5:32:32 PM EST
Im sorry for the misunderstanding, I will absolutly be putting hte panels in it. Right now I am using a combo of the concealed vest with a BH Omega vest on top. It does the job but I want one piece.

Also I can tell you that the R-20D does carry a lod pretty well, and it does fit panels well too.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 5:37:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 5:39:37 PM EST by Skiddy79]
From CTD
"Fully adjustable vest carries your armored plates for maximum protection, and enables rapid removal with the quick release shoulder straps with front and back padded pouches secure your ceramic or other protective body armor plates. This vest provides full MOLLE webbing compatibility on the front and back of the vest. Configure your vest with pouches, pockets or holsters, (sold separately), and your body armor plates are secured for maximum protection. Vest adjusts for height and girth, one size fits most. Rugged design will withstand the harshest environments or operations. The vest does not include armored plates, but will hold plates that measure 11x12x1".

That CTD vest won't accept your soft armor panels. Unless you want to cut them to the size of armor plates. I have worked with cutting kevlar - it's not fun. It is designed for hard armor plates.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 5:42:42 PM EST


I saw the same vest and thought about it. I emailed them and they said that it will take soft panels but didn't provide dimensions or anything like that. They did say that if I bought it, and the panels didn't fit, they would take it back.



Also from CTD

And I am also talking about the R-20D made by Point Blank which is designed to function as exactly what Im looking for.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 6:03:21 PM EST
Roger that - the r-20d is a great piece of gear. I have had experience with most of PB's stuff and it is top quality.

As far as the CTD vest - it is their knock off CIRAS vest. Ciras will fit soft armor but it is a special cut. Before purchase I would call them and make sure they don't mean the vest will hold soft armor panels "in the hard armor plate pocket". I would just verify that the vest has a separate area for the soft armor and that the dimensions of your panels will fit. I know the Eagle PC will accept soft panels but the back is a special dimension. This is just my advice, ultimately it is your money and your purchase. I would have a hard time cutting up brand new $200+ armor panels, but that's just me I know your trying to do this with a limited budget but maybe spend a little more on a vest and get the pouches from CTD or maybe USGI surplus? You can always save up for the wiz bang tactical pouches later. At least you would have a usable and reliable system to hang them on.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 7:24:02 PM EST
PAV,

Hopefully, this will give some insight into your purchase.

I found myself in the same problem about year and half ago. I was in need of a vest that could carry both soft armor and rifle plates. At the time, there was very little out and nothing under 300. While I cant comment on the vest you linked I have a Condor Plate/Armor Carrierlot of experience with this one.

It has rifle pockets front and rear and plenty of room for soft armor. On average, I have worn it once a week in a LEO format. Over all, it has held up well. I have had to have repaired once when I tore the shoulder strap out when I was running on our training range obstacle course, fully loaded with the front Level 4 plate. (Its freaking heavy). I also had some small upgrades done such as the shoulder buckles are gone and had the sides taken in a little to fit better. I have found myself looking at the new condor model and wondered how it would do, but in all likely hood, I will be upgrading it someday soon with a better built model.

All in all, for me, it was well worth the money and has held up well considering what I have put it through. A lot of days at the range, chasing bad guys, training, jumping walls, and just the day to day wear and tear of having it on for 10 hours straight. My record was 19 hours straight.

It is not a pro kit, for sure, but it has served my purpose well and I am pretty confident that I have put through harder abuse than most guys here on this board put their gear through.

If anything, buy one (either model from Condor) and use it as a test bed. it will do the job for what you are trying to accomplish. Run it, gun with it and test it out. Then, when you get some extra money you can always invest in a quality piece of gear and upgrade when you know exactly what you want.

Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 8:00:59 PM EST
If you want something to hold your armor correctly get on of these:
http://www.beezcombatsystems.bigcartel.com/category/bcs-nij-carriers

It will also hold rifle plates front and back. The other carriers are not made for standard soft armor panels. I have one and I love it and I can't say that about most gear. Get a molle or other chest rig or vest and wear it over the armor vest. I like being able to shed the extra weight when I can.

I use the above rig from Beez with my PACA Level IIIa panels (XL REG fits like a glove) and 10 x 12 plates. I wear an SDD Eagle chest rig over it. It is the most comfortable setup I have used.

Sometimes I wear a HSGI Weesatch or Woosatch with plates instead. This allows me to strip down to just the IIIa quickly which is nice in the heat.

There is a write up over at MM on this vest here:

http://www.militarymorons.com/equipment/protective.html

about half way down.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 6:45:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2009 6:48:04 AM EST by Pav56C]
Originally Posted By Dangler:
PAV,

Hopefully, this will give some insight into your purchase.

I found myself in the same problem about year and half ago. I was in need of a vest that could carry both soft armor and rifle plates. At the time, there was very little out and nothing under 300. While I cant comment on the vest you linked I have a Condor Plate/Armor Carrierlot of experience with this one.

It has rifle pockets front and rear and plenty of room for soft armor. On average, I have worn it once a week in a LEO format. Over all, it has held up well. I have had to have repaired once when I tore the shoulder strap out when I was running on our training range obstacle course, fully loaded with the front Level 4 plate. (Its freaking heavy). I also had some small upgrades done such as the shoulder buckles are gone and had the sides taken in a little to fit better. I have found myself looking at the new condor model and wondered how it would do, but in all likely hood, I will be upgrading it someday soon with a better built model.

All in all, for me, it was well worth the money and has held up well considering what I have put it through. A lot of days at the range, chasing bad guys, training, jumping walls, and just the day to day wear and tear of having it on for 10 hours straight. My record was 19 hours straight.

It is not a pro kit, for sure, but it has served my purpose well and I am pretty confident that I have put through harder abuse than most guys here on this board put their gear through.

If anything, buy one (either model from Condor) and use it as a test bed. it will do the job for what you are trying to accomplish. Run it, gun with it and test it out. Then, when you get some extra money you can always invest in a quality piece of gear and upgrade when you know exactly what you want.

Hope that helps.



Thankyou for your honest review.

Glad to hear from someone other than a weekend warrior, no disrespect to everyone else. I think alot people get caught up in the "best of the best" mindset and wont give anything a try if its not alot of money or made by a reputable company. I just dont understand how everyone can sit here and bash Condor when they either A. havent used their gear and B. many of their products are NTOA approved. With your opinion on the Condor I will prob say the hell woth the R20D and just go with the Condor.

Again thanks


PS I wanna come work for your dept, nice piece of equipment you got in those pics.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 1:36:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2009 1:44:03 PM EST by Skiddy79]
Originally Posted By Pav56C:
Originally Posted By Dangler:
PAV,

Hopefully, this will give some insight into your purchase.

I found myself in the same problem about year and half ago. I was in need of a vest that could carry both soft armor and rifle plates. At the time, there was very little out and nothing under 300. While I cant comment on the vest you linked I have a Condor Plate/Armor Carrierlot of experience with this one.

It has rifle pockets front and rear and plenty of room for soft armor. On average, I have worn it once a week in a LEO format. Over all, it has held up well. I have had to have repaired once when I tore the shoulder strap out when I was running on our training range obstacle course, fully loaded with the front Level 4 plate. (Its freaking heavy). I also had some small upgrades done such as the shoulder buckles are gone and had the sides taken in a little to fit better. I have found myself looking at the new condor model and wondered how it would do, but in all likely hood, I will be upgrading it someday soon with a better built model.

All in all, for me, it was well worth the money and has held up well considering what I have put it through. A lot of days at the range, chasing bad guys, training, jumping walls, and just the day to day wear and tear of having it on for 10 hours straight. My record was 19 hours straight.

It is not a pro kit, for sure, but it has served my purpose well and I am pretty confident that I have put through harder abuse than most guys here on this board put their gear through.

If anything, buy one (either model from Condor) and use it as a test bed. it will do the job for what you are trying to accomplish. Run it, gun with it and test it out. Then, when you get some extra money you can always invest in a quality piece of gear and upgrade when you know exactly what you want.

Hope that helps.



Thankyou for your honest review.

Glad to hear from someone other than a weekend warrior, no disrespect to everyone else. I think alot people get caught up in the "best of the best" mindset and wont give anything a try if its not alot of money or made by a reputable company. I just dont understand how everyone can sit here and bash Condor when they either A. havent used their gear and B. many of their products are NTOA approved. With your opinion on the Condor I will prob say the hell woth the R20D and just go with the Condor.

Again thanks


PS I wanna come work for your dept, nice piece of equipment you got in those pics.


Just for the record, I am not a weekend warrior. I am an active duty military member who has spent my time in Iraq. I took CTD pouches into theatre with me and they didn't hold up at all. I ended up replacing them with pouches from a "reputable company". I learned my lesson. I will spend the extra few dollars for quality instead of replacing or repairing the item. In the long run, it makes fiscal sense to me. This is completely ignoring the fact that I am trusting my life to this gear. I have plenty of off brand pouches or "cheap" vests and gear that I try out or modify, but when it comes down to something I'm gonna train with and possibly use in a SHTF scenario - yeah I want the best. I have the money to spend on a few pouches or a holster "just to try it out", you stated that you were on a strict budget.

Condor Outdoor Products has a few items that were reviewed by members of NTOA but keep in mind:

From NTOA website
NOTICE: Please note that this is not product endorsement from the NTOA. It is a recommendation by a field tester for the law enforcement community. The NTOA Member Tested and Recommended program is designed as a service to assist the association's membership in selecting the best products available to the tactical community. NTOA does not provide a warranty, expressed or implied, or guarantee any of the products that have been tested and approved. NTOA assumes no liability for the use or misuse of any of the featured products.

Products receiving a rating of 3.0 or higher will receive NTOA Field Tester Recommended Status and be allowed to affix the NTOA Member Tested & Recommended Logo to the product materials.
3 — Average. Defined as a product the meets minimum advertised specifications, has practical use, but does not go above or beyond the scope of quality or usefulness that is expected


Hopefully you will post a review of the vest once you get it. I am curious about the piece of kit and how well it works out for you.

Skiddy
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 6:51:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Skiddy79:
Originally Posted By Pav56C:
Originally Posted By Dangler:
PAV,

Hopefully, this will give some insight into your purchase.

I found myself in the same problem about year and half ago. I was in need of a vest that could carry both soft armor and rifle plates. At the time, there was very little out and nothing under 300. While I cant comment on the vest you linked I have a Condor Plate/Armor Carrierlot of experience with this one.

It has rifle pockets front and rear and plenty of room for soft armor. On average, I have worn it once a week in a LEO format. Over all, it has held up well. I have had to have repaired once when I tore the shoulder strap out when I was running on our training range obstacle course, fully loaded with the front Level 4 plate. (Its freaking heavy). I also had some small upgrades done such as the shoulder buckles are gone and had the sides taken in a little to fit better. I have found myself looking at the new condor model and wondered how it would do, but in all likely hood, I will be upgrading it someday soon with a better built model.

All in all, for me, it was well worth the money and has held up well considering what I have put it through. A lot of days at the range, chasing bad guys, training, jumping walls, and just the day to day wear and tear of having it on for 10 hours straight. My record was 19 hours straight.

It is not a pro kit, for sure, but it has served my purpose well and I am pretty confident that I have put through harder abuse than most guys here on this board put their gear through.

If anything, buy one (either model from Condor) and use it as a test bed. it will do the job for what you are trying to accomplish. Run it, gun with it and test it out. Then, when you get some extra money you can always invest in a quality piece of gear and upgrade when you know exactly what you want.

Hope that helps.



Thankyou for your honest review.

Glad to hear from someone other than a weekend warrior, no disrespect to everyone else. I think alot people get caught up in the "best of the best" mindset and wont give anything a try if its not alot of money or made by a reputable company. I just dont understand how everyone can sit here and bash Condor when they either A. havent used their gear and B. many of their products are NTOA approved. With your opinion on the Condor I will prob say the hell woth the R20D and just go with the Condor.

Again thanks


PS I wanna come work for your dept, nice piece of equipment you got in those pics.


Just for the record, I am not a weekend warrior. I am an active duty military member who has spent my time in Iraq. I took CTD pouches into theatre with me and they didn't hold up at all. I ended up replacing them with pouches from a "reputable company". I learned my lesson. I will spend the extra few dollars for quality instead of replacing or repairing the item. In the long run, it makes fiscal sense to me. This is completely ignoring the fact that I am trusting my life to this gear. I have plenty of off brand pouches or "cheap" vests and gear that I try out or modify, but when it comes down to something I'm gonna train with and possibly use in a SHTF scenario - yeah I want the best. I have the money to spend on a few pouches or a holster "just to try it out", you stated that you were on a strict budget.

Condor Outdoor Products has a few items that were reviewed by members of NTOA but keep in mind:

From NTOA website
NOTICE: Please note that this is not product endorsement from the NTOA. It is a recommendation by a field tester for the law enforcement community. The NTOA Member Tested and Recommended program is designed as a service to assist the association's membership in selecting the best products available to the tactical community. NTOA does not provide a warranty, expressed or implied, or guarantee any of the products that have been tested and approved. NTOA assumes no liability for the use or misuse of any of the featured products.

Products receiving a rating of 3.0 or higher will receive NTOA Field Tester Recommended Status and be allowed to affix the NTOA Member Tested & Recommended Logo to the product materials.
3 — Average. Defined as a product the meets minimum advertised specifications, has practical use, but does not go above or beyond the scope of quality or usefulness that is expected


Hopefully you will post a review of the vest once you get it. I am curious about the piece of kit and how well it works out for you.

Skiddy



Sorry if I offended you with that comment. When giving advise it would helpful if you advised your experience.

Thanks for the advise. I plan on getting it and if it is crap returning it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 8:01:59 PM EST
NTOA Product endorsements should be looked at with some suspicion. They are anecdotal in nature. What exactly is the background of the reviewer other than being in Law Enforcement? What guidelines or standards are they applying in their tests exactly? Each review I see generates more questions, and I'm not comfortable seeing high reviews on some products they have "endorsed" that I have personally had experiences to be horseshit quality and numerous others havehad experiences to be horseshit quality. So how does the NTOA reviewer have a glowing experience? A certain tactical gear company comes to mind.

Have you ever seen a product reviewed by NTOA score less than a 4? I don't recall any. Even if they only publish the ones they are recommending, they always seem to be rated high, and the rating catagories don't always seem to apply. Like accuracy. They can be decent to read but should be treated as threads like what you are reading on the net as un-scientific and don't usually have much negative printed on it.
Link Posted: 6/6/2009 10:26:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Pav56C:



Thankyou for your honest review.

Glad to hear from someone other than a weekend warrior, no disrespect to everyone else. I think alot people get caught up in the "best of the best" mindset and wont give anything a try if its not alot of money or made by a reputable company. I just dont understand how everyone can sit here and bash Condor when they either A. havent used their gear and B. many of their products are NTOA approved. With your opinion on the Condor I will prob say the hell woth the R20D and just go with the Condor.

Again thanks


PS I wanna come work for your dept, nice piece of equipment you got in those pics.


No problem. Gear is tough to say because what may work for one, wont work for another. And where one might wear it out in 2 weeks, another will never break it in. Hence why I tried to give some background on what my equipment goes through. Its tough to judge something when they say "Oh that sucks." If they give no context or background, its a worthless opinion.

I happen to have mostly Condor pouches... and to be honest, I haven't had a failure yet, all though some are starting to show wear, they are all still good to go. Now, I openly admit, what my carrier and pouches has gone through is nothing to what SKIDDY most likely puts his through daily. The weight load alone on mine is much, much lighter. But I think it is safe to say my vest has gone through a lot more than most who have theirs for the occasional weapons training weekend or hangs in the closet waiting for the SHTF scenario.

I look at the cheap stuff, (Condor as a great example) as decent equipment for a budget price.... as long one knows they are getting budget equipment. I totally understand having to work on budget. For instance, when the shoulder strap ripped from running with the panel, I had to take a deep breath and say "oh well". If anything, it is a cheap investment to experiment with it to see what works for you and upgrade to a quality unit later.

Thanks for the comments on the buggy. That rides belongs to me, I built it, operate it and fix it. its a wicked cycle.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:02:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dangler:
Thanks for the comments on the buggy. That rides belongs to me, I built it, operate it and fix it. its a wicked cycle.


Thats awesome! I think we gotta get some pics of that beast on here somewhere.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:15:57 PM EST
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=MOLLE-118

I dont have this vest, but one from CTD that has held up to trips to the range for me.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:30:07 PM EST
Pav56C

Thankyou for your honest review.

Glad to hear from someone other than a weekend warrior, no disrespect to everyone else. I think alot people get caught up in the "best of the best" mindset and wont give anything a try if its not alot of money or made by a reputable company. I just dont understand how everyone can sit here and bash Condor when they either A. havent used their gear and B. many of their products are NTOA approved. With your opinion on the Condor I will prob say the hell woth the R20D and just go with the Condor.

Again thanks


Normally, if folks choose to buy and use cheap crap, I could care less, your not looking for advice.. your looking for validation. Since your a "weekend warrior" based on your self described use, then it really matters little, but don't think for a second that it's going to hold up under long tern heavy use.

The crap is cheap for a reason, and Cops are the cheapest buyers out there... the majority of them won't spent the cash on good stuff. and what slays me with guys who choose the crap, is the good stuff, does not cost that much more. Companies like Tactical Tailor who would back there stuff up long after your pushing up daisies.
See if Condor will fix anything your tear up.... Your money, you spend it how you want.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:06:33 PM EST
+1 ^
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 7:55:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By Harv24:


Normally, if folks choose to buy and use cheap crap, I could care less, your not looking for advice.. your looking for validation. Since your a "weekend warrior" based on your self described use, then it really matters little, but don't think for a second that it's going to hold up under long tern heavy use.

The crap is cheap for a reason, and Cops are the cheapest buyers out there... the majority of them won't spent the cash on good stuff. and what slays me with guys who choose the crap, is the good stuff, does not cost that much more. Companies like Tactical Tailor who would back there stuff up long after your pushing up daisies.
See if Condor will fix anything your tear up.... Your money, you spend it how you want.


Maybe a shouldn't but for some reason this post kinda irked me and took somewhat personally. Implying that I buy "cheap crap". I am not going to defend other LEO's of the world but since I am a LEO and spoke in this thread, then your crap comment landed square on my lap.

I suppose this is why it bothered me. I have a day job, and like most, I get by. I got a family (wife and son) to take care of. I am involved with a law enforcement here in my home county as a volunteer. I get no money for anything, I "pay to play". What I do get, is a chance to set a good example for my son. I also get to help with issues that bother me. Instead of sitting on the computer or on the porch and bitching about all the wrongs in this world, I choose to get involved and try an make a difference. I can tell you, that I have and that is a reward worth a lot of money and yes, I also get to do some really fun shit.

That said, I need gear and I need a lot of of it. I don't have much hobbies, no time or money and most of my friends now are in the department. I dont have much extra money, and as it is, I have to work extra time some days, just so I can get the time off to go out with department. I would love to have "quality gear" but I have to pick and chose what I get. Some things I can "go bang for buck" and I need to save, other such as my weapons, armor first aid stuff, ammo budget (ammo for training) etc, I can not. I am not asking for sympathy nor hand outs just telling where I stand, what I have to do to get it done.

Over a year and half ago I was asked to join a special tactical team and I needed a outer carrier. I hunted hi and low for something that would hold rifle plate front and rear and also hold my "cop cut", traditional soft armor panels from duty vest. I searched for anything that was under 250... shit, even 300. I found NOTHING. There were a couple of options from Armor Express and Second Chance, but they didnt have the adjustments for a guy my build of 6' 7", 230 pounds needed.

Last winter, with the help of a regular member on this board who sells tactical gear for a living helped me in a hunt for a vest that would fulfill my need. We couldn't find anything under 350. Well you know what 350 versus 75? my Condor was a no brainer. At the juncture, I spent another 40 bucks on my Condor model and upgraded it and kept it.

Yes, I bought my Condor and wasnt thrilled that I had to buy "cheap stuff" but you know what? Either bought it or I went home and just did'nt sit well with me. I knew others that had them, seemed to work, so I got mine. It is not the quality of TT or DB or other domestic well made carrier. I knew what I was buying and the whole "get what you pay for" thing. So when I did break it on the obstacle course, I was bummed, but not mad. I got it fixed and haven't had a problem since. (shoulder strap started to tear out at the top of the front panel. I was till able to wear it one more day before I got it fixed)

I was thinking about this thread yesterday as I had to go out again. Over the course of 14 hour day, I had on and off several times. Yes, some threads are getting messy and the velcro is getting a bit fuzzy but it still works.

Here is my standard load out with it. 2 rifle mags, 2 hand guns mags, radio, flashlights, OC spray, multi tool, admin pouch, hand cuffs. Soft armor always (And my panels are quite big and fit in the Condor one).

I run hard plates either my Lvl 3 or Lvl 4, sometimes both front and back when needed. Those that know plates, know how heavy a ceramic level 4 plate is. Plates are in maybe, 30% of the time. Almost always in when we train at the range. We train full gear, full speed as well. Over the course of the past year and half I probably have over 600 hours in it. I have had to jump walls both in training and during the course of duty. Some wood fence and mostly block, almost always over 6 foot. I can tell you it has taken a beating with those days. I have also been "dragged out" of a structure a few times during training for man down drills, with them pulling on the drag handle. I have had to wash it twice due to sweat build up and I have lost count the number of times I have had to vacuum it from dusty days in my buggy. On 3 occasions, I have even webbed extra large pouches in the back and humped miles through the desert of recon work.

With all that, I only had one failure (I wont run the obstacle course again at our training facility again with my heavy 4 plate.). I would say that is pretty damn good return of investment on 75 dollar crap.


Now, don't get me wrong on what I am trying to say. I am in no way trying to compare the Condor to any of the domestic name brand stuff. This NOT a "mine is as good as yours" issue. Hell, my 600 hours of use could easily be done a solider in 10 weeks in theatre and some like that would be carrying MUCH more weight. A unit like that would be easily carrying triple the load I do. I don't think it would last even 2 months. But the point is, it has held well for what I needed it to do and it has been a great return on my investment. Personally, I am starting to save my pennies and would like to replace it with a better unit as I might be heading in a direction where the carrier will be getting more demand.

But, considering what I put it through, I could not say it is crap, in fact it has held it up damn well. For someone who is on a strapped budget, wants to play at the range or something for a SHTF scenario, I cant honestly think of a reason not to recommend it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 11:27:48 AM EST
Dangler

Yes, some threads are getting messy and the velcro is getting a bit fuzzy but it still works.


Which demonstrates my point nicely.... it will work just fine... right up to the point that it fails... and guess what, you don't get to predict when that failure will occur...it will happen at the most in opportune time when you need it the most, ( Hell, it already failed on your once)and if your lucky, you survive the encounter and so do the folks your being paid to protect.. And in the end, the money you paid for it will be wasted and you will buy something else after your lesson is learned, and you will wish you would have just ponied up and bought smart the first time...

It's easier to justify buying the cheap stuff... you can use all the "poor me, I'm a working stiff and cannot afford it"excuses, but in the end, there just that.

I sincerely hope it works for you.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:47:16 PM EST
Dangler, I'm a working LEO also, and I can't tell you how many times I see catalogs on guys' desks from CTD, Galls, Brigade QM, etc... Every time someone gets new equipment for their rifle when they're starting out, it's CAA stuff, or no-name fancy-named equipment that seems to look like more expensive brands, but is made in China. Yes, Cops are cheap. The only cheaper than a cop is two cops. In my county of 13 different agencies, I am the only officer that has made a committment to quality in what I run that way with my rifle and tac-gear. While I am slowly persuading a few, its just not going to change. Cops have bills and salaries like everyone else. Many are looking at the cheap gear through tunnel vision and are looking for something that will just get them by. They aren't expecting to need it, and for the most part gear and equipment will sit until its needed. Hard to make it fail when its not used, which also justifies many of their purchases since "It;s still holding up for them."

You made the comment yourself that you're saving up for something better. There are 5-10% in any group that are not the norm. It sounds like because of the way you started out in your field that you have a better appreciation. You also have the mindset that you understand if it fails. You're lucky you have gotten some use out of what you spent your hard earned dollars for, and at least you gained knowledge of what works and what doesn't. Bad thing is is that the price of that knowledge means you need to replace what you purchased much sooner than if you would have waited, researched, and saved up for something in a higher quality level.

Believe me, Harv24 is a guy that isn't anti-LEO by any means. He knows cheap, because he is a thrifty SOB. When it comes to his gear and equipment he makes a dollar stretch tighter than a string bikini on a 500-lb woman. The difference between the two of you is he is buying with the intention of not letting what he has fail, to buy one time.

I'm glad tyou took offense to his post, because perhaps it gives you motivation to look at your purchaes differently. Look around at other in your agency or in the area, and see what they run and why. Maybe it will open your eyes to bean-counters in an admin buying something from Cheaper Than Dirt because it looks the same and is $100 cheaper per unit, and since it looks the same it must be just as good! I know of lots of LEO's that unfortunately will never pony up for their own gear or training, that have the mindset that if the department wants them to ahve it they will by it for them and pay for their time. Otherwise, it's just a job to them, and they couldn't care less about bettering themselves for the good of those they serve and their brother LEO's.

You said that you are starting to see stiching issuea and fuzzy velcro. Let me put it to you this way. Thursday you will get a call in the desert that wioll mean not only someones life, but the safety of your brothers. You will need your equipment, gear, and weapons for an apprehension and will need it for a hard 22-hours miniumum. When you're out in the bursh with your weapon at a low ready searching, will you want it in the back of your mind that you heard an odd tear sound when you put your stuff on? Will you want it in the back of your mind that you started seeing some threads coming loose, and you sure hope that the gear in that pocket isn't going to come off or get lost if you snag on something. Will you want it in the back of your mind that you're trying to keep the gear in the pockets and pouches extra secure to ward against loosing it, and hope that reinforcement for your plate is going to hold enough to not have it come tearing out while you're moving.

Or, will you want your attention focused fully foward on the task at hand and your safety, being ready to arrest or take out the SOB if you need to? Food for thought.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 8:41:55 PM EST
CHW,

Thanks for the great reply. I found myself nodding my head several times in agreement with what you were saying. Unfortunately, being a volunteer, everything comes out of my pocket. I can honestly say, I have starved, (skipped lunch for a few days) so I had the money to buy ammo because I got invite to go to the range. I do the most I can, with what I got. And, the scenario you came up with is pretty darn on the money... except thankfully, it wasn't 22 hours. You nailed that little scenario like 100 yard, handgun head shot. Which is why, depending on how some things play out for me, I might be in a situation where I will be demanding more from my gear, hence why I am looking at more serious options.

My point about the equipment was two fold and at times, this forum, while it has some great advice, tips and tricks, also has some folks who say if you aren't running so and so gear, your gonna die. I have a hard time with that. I always try to take items with healthy dose of reality. As far the OP goes, personally, I think the vest have would be good for him as a recreational/SHTF. Most notably if he really is working on a tight budget.

I look at the as one or the other... cheap is because its all you can do... or cheap is because you want to skimp, be lazy, easy or just plain cheap cause its good enough.e.. To me there is a drastic difference.

As far for me, I guess I fall into the category because its all I can do. I have run it, and made upgrades as I went along to improve it. But, as time goes on and if more options open to me, then yes, I will do what I can to improve... i.e., buying a quality kit.

I made a crack once to try out for are warrant team during a training session that has been coined into a catch phrase. "Standing in the back yard of a bad guy's house is NOT the time to find out your shit don't work." Sounds like you can appreciate that.

Take care and stay safe.






Link Posted: 6/15/2009 12:06:40 AM EST
Hey, just because you choose to volunteer, don't think that you are different! There are a ton of LEO's where their agencies don't pony up for equipment-They purchase a great deal out of their own pockets as well. I had to learn the hard way doing that because a lot of this information just wasn't out there in these formats like they are today. When I first started with one agency, I was issued a sidearm, belt, holster, cuff case (No cuffs), a squad with siren/lights, radio, and a bare truck with the exception of a canoe paddle. I scrounged gear and put in a lot of my own stuff until things changed and we started getting issued other items. Needing to scrounge was just the way things were done there, and that was still this decade ago.

I see your point about the responses and how extreme they can sometimes be either way. However, that is where readers need to take a second and look to see if the poster is within their lane or talking out their ass. Unfortunately, internet forums tend to foster a lot of the latter. The anonymous settings promote a lot of enhanced gun-shop commando-speak from self-acclamed experts that don't always know what they are talking about but want to feel important. There can be a lot of good information to find in forums such as these, but one has to learn to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

When it comes to saving up for things, I am like you in that I have a family to support and way more expenses than I have money coming in. I've made choices as well in order to afford what I have. I'm boring as hell because I don't go out on the weekends- a weekend at the bar could be a RAT knife, or ammunition, or pouches...I see too much of what I need, so I splurge rarely on entertainment for myself. I skimp on meals like you and many others do. Where I am different is that when I purchase something, I am able to forget about it and focus on getting other things instead of replacements for what I've purchased, if that makes sense at this late hour. I'm adding to my equipment and you're replacing. I'm paying for stuff in cash at a discount and you're buying on credit and paying off interest for a REALLY bad metaphor as to how your buying power towards your gear purchases is being affected.

You're coming along though! You're noticing that you need better stuff! You're applying lessons for what has worked and didn't work for you so you spend less in the future in the long run. We all go through it-it just takes some of us longer to realize that concept! You're also right in the sense that the OP is probably good for the Condor stuff for recreational useage. I hesitate to add it for SHTF use because that means you could need to depend on it, and that typically is when you stress and strain things more and there is a higher probability of the gear failing or not being useable.

Responded to your email: If you need anything at all, don't hestiate to get a hold of me.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 3:01:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:15:17 PM EST
Joker581

Knock off the GD shit here. This forum is not here so you can bicker about gear brands.


seems pretty civil of a discussion to me....
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:37:02 PM EST
honestly cruise the EE...I've found some pretty good deals on there. Hell I got a blackwater PC with cummerbund for $65shipped, the seller I got mine from has a different type of blackwater PC listed for the same price IIRC just look in the new EE under LBV. I would have preferred to get an Eagle PC w/ cummerbund but I couldn't find any in S/M and in ACU and I wanted to get my plates into something sooner rather than later, after all they don't do you any good if you can't carry them in something. I'll eventually upgrade and I'll likely sell or outfit my BW PC with something else at a later date, but for now it does the job.

The other thing to do is cruise websites like LA Police Gear in their closeouts and sign up for TAG's newsletter. I got $300 worth of gear for $150 with their last 50% off sale. Granted I am still waiting for it, but I was in no rush for any of it. I've got gear that does the job for now, I just wanted to try out a new system/load so I went a bit hog wild with their sale.
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