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Posted: 12/29/2006 7:00:45 PM EDT
I guess the good old days are really over.

I bought a greek M1903 last year for $400.  It had a like new barrel and no rust.  At the time it seemed like a lot for a surplus rifle but i wanted one.

The new offerings are $500 and up for the high s/n that are safe to shoot and are listed as to expect pitted and dark bores w/o much or any rifling due to shooting corrosive blanks and not being cleaned by VFW and AL groups.  I guess I don't see the attraction at buying a rifle that needs rebarreling for a $100 more than the last one that came with a good bore.

Am I expecting too much?????

Personally it looks like they're happy to capitalize on feeding frenzy and hysteria.  Really other than a wall hanger what would a rifle with a burned out and crudded barrel be good for?

They also are warming up for selling M1 carbines in March.  I'm thinking they're going to price them at gunshow prices too but without the opportunity to look the horse in the mouth.  I'm guessing they'll sell them for 700-800 with some of the brandnames going for more.

Well they at least accept returns if you don't think you got what was advertised.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 7:07:48 PM EDT
I doubt they'll price carbines that high.  My bet is 500 give or take 100, depending on grade and manufacturer.  They have a "significant" quantity of carbines on hand (I have heard as high as 10k+) I'd imagine you could get a good shooter for far less than a gun show special, though you do have a point about the luck of the draw thing.  Good thing the south store is a day trip away for me (hopefully they have the carbines for sale before I move at the end of Feb!)
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 8:11:41 PM EDT
FWIW, JMHO  etc,  

the new lot of 03's and A3's are all USGI, not a Greek etc rebuild, (a lot of guys i know that bought the greeks did not like the black finish etc, however they all shot well)
barrels are listed as crap, but i purchased a 1917 at the north store last summer, that had a very good barrel on it, and looked at several dozen that were as nice (and they were listed as VFW returns with crap barrels)

500+ is not a bad price in today's market, at least in this area, for a good USGI 03 or A3, (and A3 barrels are still available at a reasonable price)
however, i would rather purchase at one of the stores than go for the luck of the draw with mail order,

personally, i think the carbines will be priced all over the range, depending on who made it, similar to the pricing on the 03/A3's

and all will probably sell out quickly,

again , JMHO etc



Link Posted: 12/29/2006 8:20:22 PM EDT
The prices on the 03's were right about what I was expecting.  It just sucks about the poor barrel quality.  They've got tens of thousands of Garands laying around and only a handful of 03's.  So it makes sense that they would charge more for the 03, comparatively speaking.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 9:28:41 PM EDT
I was waiting of the 1903s to come in but I am not ready to buy one sight unseen.  If I take a trip to one of the stores I might pick one up.  If I get one I get one if not so be it.  I am more intrested in M1s, M1Carbines and M1As than 1903s anyway.  I am thankful that the CMP gives a honest description of their products.  
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 9:31:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSTOCK:
I was waiting of the 1903s to come in but I am not ready to buy one sight unseen.  If I take a trip to one of the stores I might pick one up.  If I get one I get one if not so be it.  I am more intrested in M1s, M1Carbines and M1As than 1903s anyway.  I am thankful that the CMP gives a honest description of their products.  


i have my 1903.  I'm tempted to grab an A3, but in all honesty, it doesnt excite me.  I'd rather buy another Garand instead.

I will MOST DEFINATELY be getting a carbine though!  I had thought I missed the boat on those guys, and I can't express how excited I am to get a chance at them from the CMP!
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 10:13:33 PM EDT
I already have an M1 and an M1903A1; I figure the carbines will be arounf $400-$550, depending on condition. I look forward to buying one, maybe two when they become available for sale.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 5:53:19 AM EDT
Good point about CMP being honest in describing the bore condition.  In fact they're probably painting a bleaker picture on purpose.  Calling all bores  bad so as not to sell any to someone who then complains the bore is shot.  

IIRC the M1917 sales were described this way and some of the bores were salvageable.  Not sure what percentage just that a few guys posted about scrubbing out a coal mine and finding ok rifling with some dark spots that could still shoot.  I'm just not ready to spend $500 for a pig in a poke.  

I'm sure they won't last until I go to the North store to handpick one.  That's really the only option unless you want to spend $500 and then another $120 for a barrel and another $60 for a smith to swap barrels.

Just my .02
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 2:20:17 PM EDT
As much as I want a 1903, I'll have to pass on this. I want a shooter, and I'm not willing to take a chance on getting a smoothbore.
I'll just keep my eyes open on gunbroker and gun shows for a deal.

Otherwise, I'm saving up for a carbine or 2.

John
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 2:45:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Black-Tiger:
I already have an M1 and an M1903A1; I figure the carbines will be arounf $400-$550, depending on condition. I look forward to buying one, maybe two when they become available for sale.


I tend to think they will be more $$$ than a shot out 1903.  There seems to be a lot more intrest in M1 Carbines than 1903s so I think the price will be $600+ for a shooter.  Just a guess.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 9:12:00 PM EDT
It is my understanding that most, if not all of the Greek Lend-Leased '03's and 03-A3's were rebuilt to arsenal standards in the U.S. by Springfield, Remington and a few other contractors. Condition ranged from NRA fair to excellent.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 9:23:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteelonSteel:
I guess the good old days are really over.

I bought a greek M1903 last year for $400.  It had a like new barrel and no rust.  At the time it seemed like a lot for a surplus rifle but i wanted one.

The new offerings are $500 and up for the high s/n that are safe to shoot and are listed as to expect pitted and dark bores w/o much or any rifling due to shooting corrosive blanks and not being cleaned by VFW and AL groups.  I guess I don't see the attraction at buying a rifle that needs rebarreling for a $100 more than the last one that came with a good bore.

Am I expecting too much?????

Personally it looks like they're happy to capitalize on feeding frenzy and hysteria.  Really other than a wall hanger what would a rifle with a burned out and crudded barrel be good for?

They also are warming up for selling M1 carbines in March.  I'm thinking they're going to price them at gunshow prices too but without the opportunity to look the horse in the mouth.  I'm guessing they'll sell them for 700-800 with some of the brandnames going for more.

Well they at least accept returns if you don't think you got what was advertised.


Well, if you don't like CMP, you can always buy elsewhere.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 6:04:03 AM EDT
I'm headed to the north store in the spring and look forward to seeing what they have at that point. What a great country where we can still buy guns from the gov huh? Too bad no M14S..  
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 6:25:46 PM EDT
I think 500 bucks for a junk rifle is too much! If you read the boards, most people are passing on these. Really, who would want one when you can get a quality rifle for 650 bucks at most gun shows?
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 9:33:47 PM EDT
The price of Carbines will be dependant on the number they have to sell.  The more in inventory, the lower the price
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 6:21:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MouseBoy:
The price of Carbines will be dependant on the number they have to sell.  The more in inventory, the lower the price


I'm hoping you're right on this!  It's my nature to expect the worst and anything better is a stroke of luck.  

I'm thinking of ordering one or 2 carbines when they come out.  I hope they are arsenal reworks, they're in better shape that way.  new barrels, new springs, possibly new stocks, better sights.  Sure they're not original WWII but they improved them for a reason.
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 6:25:42 AM EDT
MAybe I just woke up in a hungover mood from last night or something... but I've a mind to b*tch this up a bit. I'm already ticked off that the CMP is raking in huge on the last of the Garands- and bummed that the M14 parts dried up and are gone. But come on, 500-600 (probably) for 1903s? Yeah, its a d*mn good rifle! But so is a brand new Remington 700 or FN, and they're not that much more. C'mon CMP, give a little back, after all... weren't those paid for by you and me (your Grandaddy & mine) already? If they really want to make a profit, get the d*mn ARMY to give up its stashes of surplus firearms sitting in warehouses and sell that sh*t to us!
Sell me a SHERMAN dammit!! Hell yeah! I want a tank now too! With a decent f*cking barrel!
And a Huey!Those are cool as sh*t! (And I want the doorguns intact)
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 9:08:37 AM EDT
The prices on the 03's is outrageous esp for ones with shot out bbls & dark bores and messed up VFW stocks.

The prices CMP asked for the Greek returned 03/A3's was outrageous at the time when you could buy nice DCM 03A3's all day for less than $ 400. The opposite effect happened, the flood of 03/A3's and the high CMP price caused the overall prices of Springfields to skyrocket.


The Carbines aren't going to be cheap, you can keep on dreaming  for a bargain price but the CMP has other plans. If you think Carbines are expensive now wait until the gunshow bandits use CMP to set the market price ! If you are in the market and willing to pay $ 600-700 for a nice non-import buy now !
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 1:58:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tangeant:

The Carbines aren't going to be cheap, you can keep on dreaming  for a bargain price but the CMP has other plans. If you think Carbines are expensive now wait until the gunshow bandits use CMP to set the market price ! If you are in the market and willing to pay $ 600-700 for a nice non-import buy now !


Then those carbines will sit.  I think most of the people who just HAD to have one probably already do.  When you get can still get a decent Garand for under 500 bucks, and a brand spankin' new RRA AR-15 for around 800 bucks, 600-700 bucks is ludicrous, especially for those of us with a wife, kids, and a mortgage, and are more restrained in our gun buying.

I wanted to get a Carbine after I got my Garand, but was suprised to see how much prices have gone up in the past few years.  No way in hell I'm paying over 500 bucks for a carbine.  450 tops if its got some life left in it.
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 2:27:19 PM EDT
i don't see why everyone has already deemed the carbines a rip off without even the slightest official word on pricing.  If they have as many carbines as it seems like they have (10k+) than there is no reason to price them like they're going out of style.  The reason the 03's are so expensive is that there are very few left.  They are priced so that people who REALLY want one can get one, but are priced so that the casual guy on the fence will not be attracted, thus leaving it available for the guy who really wants it.

I expect carbines to be priced quite reasonably, most likely in line with garand prices.  
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 2:57:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tangeant:
The Carbines aren't going to be cheap, you can keep on dreaming  for a bargain price but the CMP has other plans. If you think Carbines are expensive now wait until the gunshow bandits use CMP to set the market price ! If you are in the market and willing to pay $ 600-700 for a nice non-import buy now !


Do you have any REAL knowledge as to the pricing CMP will use on the Carbines?  Any at all?  Do you have some inside knowledge that the "CMP has other plans"?
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 3:35:47 PM EDT
I have seen and bought several nice USGI (non import) carbines at gun shows this year. Once you look away from the dealers tables and look what is walking the show you'll find some buys from $450-$600. That being said if the CMP prices these at the $500-600 level they will sell. Of course they will be graded and sorted according to manufacturer and priced accordingly. I would not be surprized to see them priced even higher.
Many people on the gun boards bitch about people buying and selling CMP rifles. They believe that if the CMP raises the price and puts limits on purchases this will stop the practice. Really all it does is that the sellers just ask higher prices. They have deep pockets and can wait a year or more to make a profit. In fact the longer they wait the higher the price. Now the CMP seems to be selling at or near retail level. I'm sure that many guys can't come up with the dough as easily as a few years ago. The carbines they sold before were $350 and I believe a random choice. Many were arsenal refinished and in the wrap so they are very valuable now. I don't think the CMP will make that mistake again. At the worse they will be put on auction.
It will be interesting to see what happens. But I'm not sure that I'll buy many.
Link Posted: 1/1/2007 6:39:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2007 6:42:13 PM EDT by tangeant]
The last release of CMP carbines were for " Club Sales ". They were cheap because the carbines were meant for " Club Use " not individual sale but it was very abused as many people bought them through the club sales program for individual use and resale , it was a big stink at the time on some of the carbine forums.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 7:04:23 AM EDT
I've had a long weekend to think about it, and if I had subconciously wanted one of these 1903s, by now I would have had the order form filled out and ready to drop in the mail.  I'll leave these for the dealers.  I expect to see a lot of Gunbroker ads for $800 1903s with "good to excellent bores" in the near future.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 3:29:38 PM EDT
Supply and Demand guys.  If it's too much, don't buy one.  I don't go to too many gunshows, but in most of the gunstores, the only 03's you see have a drilled and tapped receiver, a sporterized stock and barrel, some rings and usually a cheap scope.  It may be high, but they will not be around forever.  That's just my opinion.
Link Posted: 1/2/2007 5:17:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2007 5:18:00 PM EDT by Bladeswitcher]
The thing about these 1903 rifles is that there were very few rifles and a whole bunch of folks clamoring for them. Had they priced them at $250-$350 they would all be gone by now. As it is, they may last a couple of months Either way, they sell out fast but with prices they way they are, CMP brings in considerably more money for its core mission -- marksmanship education and competitions. If you were in charge of CMP, what would you have done? If you say "sell them cheap" there's a reason why you're not head of CMP.

The M1 carbines are a different deal altogether. I've heard that they're getting anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 of the carbines. Assuming that half of them pass inspection, that's a LOT of rifles. They can't afford to sit on them by charging all the market will bear. Yes, they could probably sell them all at $750 each but it would take a long time. My guess is they'll be priced pretty much like the Garands -- somewhere in the neighborhood of $450 for a common field grade and then on up from there based on manufacturer and condition. THere may even be some basket case guns that sell in the $250 range.

A lot of it depends on what they find when they dig into them. If most of the rifles are pretty good, prices will be lower. Also, yet unannounced deals in the works could influence prices as well. If these -- say 10,000 -- rifles are going to be followed up by another batch from some other country a year later, then the CMP will have more reason to try to move them.

If it helps, over on the CMP board Orest defended his decision to not place purchase limits on the .22 target rifles by saying his first job is to meet payroll. In other words, they're trying to sell rifles. They won't do that by setting the price too high.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:23:20 AM EDT
Alright, we're all on record as acknowledging that supply and demand can be a bitch.  You guys justifying $500 bucks for a shot out 03 but looking forward to cheap carbines shouldn't start bitching if the prices are set at current market rates, not at a price that would be the result of a massive influx of product on the market.  
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:31:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By whoanelly:
Alright, we're all on record as acknowledging that supply and demand can be a bitch.  You guys justifying $500 bucks for a shot out 03 but looking forward to cheap carbines shouldn't start bitching if the prices are set at current market rates, not at a price that would be the result of a massive influx of product on the market.  


I'm not sure if I follow your thinking here.  It seems like right now 500 bucks is the lowest amount you can spend to get a decent, USGI Carbine.  If CMP prices its field grade model at 500 bucks, I would think that the average dealer on Gunbroker or at the gun show would slash the price of their carbines a bit if they want to stay competitive.

With the 03's, I'm surprised there's still that much of a demand for what is essentially a 30-06 Mauser.  Garands and M1 Carbines are a bit more unique.  The fact that most of them are still shootable also makes them more desirable than the 03's IMHO.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:58:22 AM EDT
The dealers don't lower Garand prices based on the relatively low CMP Garand prices-they have to make a profit on those 12 a year they buy from the CMP.  

I guess what I was trying to say is that if the CMP is capitalizing on the smoothbore 1903s, and God bless em, this is America so they can do what they want, then we can't expect rack grade M1 carbines for $295.  If I'm wrong I'll gladly eat my hat and place an order for one myself.  I just don't believe we'll see those low prices.  
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