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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 6/11/2002 2:50:04 PM EDT
I'm fairly new to ARs so please bear with me. I have a pre-ban XM15-E2S and a post ban of the same model. I switched the uppers because the post ban upper is a bit shorter than the pre-ban upper. Also, the post-ban upper barrel was out of line. I sent it back to Bushmaster and it came back dead on. So I put my ACOG on the post-ban upper on my pre-ban lower. I have now zeroed the pre-ban upper on the new lower. But like I said the new upper on the pre-ban lower is a bit shorter and frankly looks better.Any reason to swich them back? Thanks
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 2:54:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2002 3:06:43 PM EDT by brouhaha]
I'll make this real simple.

A good reason to switch them back would be cuz IT'S ILLEGAL!

You CANNOT legally have a pre-ban upper on a post-ban lower. The reverse is ok, however.

Silly laws, but laws nonetheless.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 3:03:35 PM EDT
I think it's the other way around, a pre-ban upper (with all the nasty features such as a bayonet lug and flash hider) would be illegal on a post ban lower. But in any case you should dissassemble the post ban lower and pre-ban upper and store them apart.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 3:04:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
I'll make this real simple.

A good reason to switch them back would be cuz IT'S ILLEGAL!

You CANNOT legally have a post-ban upper on a pre-ban lower. The reverse is ok, however.



Uh, brouhaha, I think you have that backwards.

You CAN legally have a post-ban upper on a pre-ban lower. The reverse is NOT ok, however.

az_larry, you do not want to be caught by the authorities with the preban upper on the postban lower. Under the laws of our Great Republic, that would be BAD.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 3:06:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SF:

Uh, brouhaha, I think you have that backwards.

You CAN legally have a post-ban upper on a pre-ban lower. The reverse is NOT ok, however.

az_larry, you do not want to be caught by the authorities with the preban upper on the postban lower. Under the laws of our Great Republic, that would be BAD.



Duh...I wasn't thinking when I typed. Sorry for the confusion.

You can't have a preban upper on a postban lower.

I'll edit
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 3:06:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2002 3:09:17 PM EDT by Shadowblade]
brouhaha was just typing too fast I suspect... He knows the rules, just got it backwards.


edited - 9 seconds late... Now he's right...
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 3:14:21 PM EDT
EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE ,UNLESS YOU FALL WITH YOUR WEAPON ,AND IMPAIL YOURSELF ON THAT NASTY OLE BAYONETTE LUG
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 3:16:48 PM EDT
Wierd, the pre-ban upper is longer, has no bayo-lug and has a permament flash hider just like the post ban. But I guess these things aren't supposed to make sense. So if I have this right I can leave the post-ban upper on my pre-ban lower. But if I want to shoot the post ban lower I have to put the shorter post-ban upper with the same permamnet flash hider on the lower. The only difference is the pre-ban upper has the thion silver washer. Jeez, I'm getting dizzy!
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 3:20:04 PM EDT
Oh, I guess it does have the bayo lug. The grooves behind the flash hider. Oh well, hope the ACOG doesn't need to be zeroed to that upper. It was a pain to get it right!
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 3:47:51 PM EDT
Thanks for helping a newbie guys. Uppers and ACOG now switched back. And now I know what the evil bayo-lug looks like. If I ever decide to use my $1500 rifle as a spear I'll be all set. Any thoughts on the ACOG not having to be re-zeroed? I guess I'll find out soon enough.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:02:17 PM EDT
The byonet lug is NOT the grooves on the back of the flash suppressor. It's the lug that sticks down under the front post of the front sight base, and if you don't have a lug sticking down under the front sight base, or if you do have one and grind it off, you're halfway to having a post ban legal upper.

The other half would be the flash supprssor itself. You wrote in an earlier post that the suppressor was permanently attached. Are you sure? If it is indeed a FLASH SUPPRESSOR, for a preban gun, there would be no need for it to be permanently attached, nor for that shiny washer.
If in fact it is simply threaded on, you can make the unit post ban legal by replacing the flash suppressor with a muzzle brake that has been permanently installed, and then you can use either top end on either of your guns.

To recap, grind off the bayonet lug if there is one there, and replace the flash suppressor with a permanently installed muzzle brake, and you're home free.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:27:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shamayim:
If it is indeed a FLASH SUPPRESSOR, for a preban gun, there would be no need for it to be permanently attached, nor for that shiny washer.



Not true. Even a preban upper must meet the minimum barrel length of 16".

If you have a 14.5" barrel, the FS MUST be permanently installed to meet that length (16").

If, however, it's a 16" or a 20" barrel, the FS does not need to be permanently attached and may be removed whenever you wish. You'll just need the right tools to remove it, since it's gonna be difficult to unscrew without them.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:40:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2002 7:41:44 PM EDT by Ridge_runner]

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By shamayim:
If it is indeed a FLASH SUPPRESSOR, for a preban gun, there would be no need for it to be permanently attached, nor for that shiny washer.



Not true. Even a preban upper must meet the minimum barrel length of 16".

If you have a 14.5" barrel, the FS MUST be permanently installed to meet that length (16").

If, however, it's a 16" or a 20" barrel, the FS does not need to be permanently attached and may be removed whenever you wish. You'll just need the right tools to remove it, since it's gonna be difficult to unscrew without them.

Just dont forget a postban cannot have a threaded berrel. I think the rule of the deadly five should be linked here,I cannot find it.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:57:22 PM EDT
I think you have two post ban uppers.. Are You sure the lower is pre-ban??
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 9:33:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2002 9:36:19 PM EDT by MurderSHO45]
Naughty, NAUGHTY threaded barrel and colapsible stock!

Go to your ROOM! You are evil and black!!!
(Not a racist comment)

O sorry, I didn't realize you were 8 years old, ok now your fine.

Score 1 for Stupid and 0 for Logic.


Link Posted: 6/12/2002 6:34:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigyeti:
I think you have two post ban uppers.. Are You sure the lower is pre-ban??



Yep, and I do have the bayo lug. The reason I think the flash hider is permament is that I called Bushmaster to see about changing the handguards. The guy told be the washer was for indexing. I think I may have been mislead. I have since been to bighammers sight and am getting up to speed...... I hope
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:10:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2002 8:51:33 AM EDT by az_larry]
OK, after reviwing the mil manual, I see why Bushmaster said the flash hider in permament. It's not, but it is not designed to be removed by someone without the right armorers tools. So, unless you have all the right tools which I don't, for all practical purposes it aint coming off. The conversation with bushmaster revolved around putting a RAS on it. They said I couldn't because I couldn't remove the flash hider.

emailed some pics I had on my hard drive pre-purchase to brouhaha
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 10:02:51 AM EDT
Nice looking Bushmaster you've got there.

Guys, it's a 16" HBAR A2 with a collapsible stock. A2 flash hider. Serial number appears to be in the 3 digit range (if so, it's DEFINITELY a preban).

I'm about to leave for an Astros game, but I'll upload one of the pics when I get back and host it for a couple days or so.

Aww, what the heck...here it is...

I will NOT post the pic that shows the serial number.


Link Posted: 6/12/2002 10:09:59 AM EDT
Thanks Brouha! How hard would it be to put a RAS on this. I'd like the option of putting a forhand grip on it. Would the A2 flash hider have to come off along with the fron sight?
Thanks again for posting the pic (and not the serial number!)
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 10:14:42 AM EDT
I have never installed a RAS, so I don't know what's involved there.

The flash suppressor is easy to remove with an armorer's wrench. May I suppest the DPMS Multi-Tool?
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 10:14:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
Nice looking Bushmaster you've got there.

Guys, it's a 16" HBAR A2 with a collapsible stock. A2 flash hider. Serial number appears to be in the 3 digit range (if so, it's DEFINITELY a preban).

I'm about to leave for an Astros game, but I'll upload one of the pics when I get back and host it for a couple days or so.

Aww, what the heck...here it is...

I will NOT post the pic that shows the serial number.





since you live in houston or the houston area (assuming), as do i, i was wondering if you know a good place where i can get a good price on a Pre-Ban M4. because i cant stand not having a flash supressor anymore and the day i am 18 (Nov.18th, 2002) i am going to buy a pre-ban. so if you know of any real good deals, i am interested. i would prefer to also stay with bushmaster, but i will condsider others too. thanks!!!
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 1:02:53 PM EDT
I bought one of the multi tools. Have not used it yet. The Quality is fantastic and well made.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 2:13:47 PM EDT
Brohaha,

Those Naughty pictures of those black rifles are offending me!

Please, could you butter those up maybe with some pink fufu borders and maybe a little teddy bear hugging the big bad gun?

My PC eyes would thank you.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 3:49:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By az_larry:
Thanks Brouha! How hard would it be to put a RAS on this. I'd like the option of putting a forhand grip on it. Would the A2 flash hider have to come off along with the fron sight?
Thanks again for posting the pic (and not the serial number!)



Simply put, the RAS installs like regular handguards. No front sight removal required.

I have a RAS installed on a Bushmaster HEAVY HBAR barrel.


Chris
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 4:09:19 PM EDT
Murder and Citabria,

That's not mine

It's az-larry's

I was just hosting it for him.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 5:31:31 PM EDT
I was hoping someone could photshop that into this Pic real quick.

Damn, I need to learn that program.
I got all this software and I don't even use it.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 6:13:20 PM EDT

LOL! Another purple Bushmaster. I had one just like it.

MurderSHO45, that ain't no black rifle.

BTW, what is the serial number? At least give me a partial number. It seems most of the early Bushmaster serial numbers, from L000500 to L002500, were purple.

I also bet I can guess the manufacture date. August 10, 1994. Call Bushmaster to find out your manufacture date.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:03:07 PM EDT
I know!

I just look at it for the first time on my monitor.

The one at my work is to dark it was cranked all the up, its going bad.

Anyway, I'm feeling better about this rifle all ready.

But that Stock, it's still black and god forbid, it collapses!

Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:05:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2002 7:08:39 PM EDT by MurderSHO45]
OK wait a Minute!

The Stock is black, the receiver partion of the upper nad lower is purple, and to finnish it off, the handgaurds are Blue!

How Cute!

But wait there's more, is that CAR handgaurds on a 20"? This can't be right.
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:20:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrcr0603:



Simply put, the RAS installs like regular handguards. No front sight removal required.

I have a RAS installed on a Bushmaster HEAVY HBAR barrel.


Chris

Chris, could you put up a pic of your RAS equipped Bushmaster? If not could you email me one? And What type of RAS do you have?
Thanks
Larry
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 7:23:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MurderSHO45:
OK wait a Minute!

The Stock is black, the receiver partion of the upper nad lower is purple, and to finnish it off, the handgaurds are Blue!

How Cute!

But wait there's more, is that CAR handgaurds on a 20"? This can't be right.



Whoa, purple and black yes. Aint no blue tho. Serial is closer to L000X than L002
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 9:00:51 PM EDT

Chris, could you put up a pic of your RAS equipped Bushmaster? If not could you email me one? And What type of RAS do you have?
Thanks
Larry





Larry .... This type of RAS is what I was referring to in my previous reply, and this is my Bushmaster.

I didn't mention that there is a free-floating RAS too, which does require the flash suppressor/front sight removal.

The RAS model I have installs like handguards, and doesn't require flash suppressor/front sight removal.

Both "RAS" models are made by Knight Armament Corporation (KAC).


Chris
Link Posted: 6/12/2002 10:30:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By az_larry:

Originally Posted By MurderSHO45:
OK wait a Minute!

The Stock is black, the receiver partion of the upper nad lower is purple, and to finnish it off, the handgaurds are Blue!

How Cute!

But wait there's more, is that CAR handgaurds on a 20"? This can't be right.



Whoa, purple and black yes. Aint no blue tho. Serial is closer to L000X than L002



Yea I figured it was a camera angle thing or something. I mean why on earth would someone have blue handguards?
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 6:29:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2002 6:34:57 AM EDT by az_larry]

Originally Posted By mrcr0603:

Chris, could you put up a pic of your RAS equipped Bushmaster? If not could you email me one? And What type of RAS do you have? If your barrel is 20 and mine is 16, do you have the KAC number that would fit mine.
Thanks
Larry





Larry .... This type of RAS is what I was referring to in my previous reply, and this is my Bushmaster.

I didn't mention that there is a free-floating RAS too, which does require the flash suppressor/front sight removal.

The RAS model I have installs like handguards, and doesn't require flash suppressor/front sight removal.

Both "RAS" models are made by Knight Armament Corporation (KAC).


Chris



Chris, your setup is exactly what I'm looking for. Could you give me the KAC part numbers you have including the forhand grip? I'd like to set mine up like this without having to take the flash hider and front site off. If possible would you have the KAC numbers that would fit my shorter barrel?
Thanks
Larry
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 1:02:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2002 1:05:47 PM EDT by mrcr0603]

Originally Posted By az_larry:
Chris, your setup is exactly what I'm looking for. Could you give me the KAC part numbers you have including the forhand grip? I'd like to set mine up like this without having to take the flash hider and front site off. If possible would you have the KAC numbers that would fit my shorter barrel?
Thanks
Larry



Larry - There are several companies that frequent this site that carry the "standard" (non-free floating) KAC RAS.

My recommendation is to talk to Brad at Lightfighter, or www.lightfighter.com.

If you go to the website, select Weapon Essentials, Rifles and Carbines, Modular Weapon System, then finally M4, and that will be the RAS.

Also the pic of the RAS on the website is excellent.

There are only two models of the KAC RAS, the M4 and M5. The M4 is the carbine length, and the M5 is for the full length, or 20" type barrels.


Chris
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 3:17:35 PM EDT
Thanks for the info Chris, I'll give Lightfighter a call. I'd like to patronize AR-15.com members.
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