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Posted: 1/25/2009 2:18:32 AM EST
I ran across this in my internet travels this AM and though it could be useful for our discussions inthe future.

Burglary Ratings

I also went looking for the UL 687 standard. It appears it is for sale if you want the details. Group Buy.

Here is a video (scroll down on page) of UL guys breaking into a safe: Meilink TL-30 High Security Burglary safe

Here is the safe: TL-30 Fire Safes from Meilink. I have no idea what prices are.



Link Posted: 1/25/2009 7:38:43 AM EST
Meilink makes great stuff. True horror-shows for thieves.

Keep in mind with a large TL-30 rated safe like that, you're likely to pay almost as much again for shipping and rigging work if you're putting that in a basement.

But if you've got the cash and a place to put it that can bear the weight, TL-15 or higher is the only way to go.

Link Posted: 1/25/2009 10:56:01 AM EST
Quoted:
Meilink makes great stuff. True horror-shows for thieves.

Keep in mind with a large TL-30 rated safe like that, you're likely to pay almost as much again for shipping and rigging work if you're putting that in a basement.

But if you've got the cash and a place to put it that can bear the weight, TL-15 or higher is the only way to go.




I've followed your posts and you seem to have excellent understanding of what it takes to cut into RSCs/Safes. From one of your other responses, I got the impression you cut metal for a living.

Most posters in this forum (including myself) can't afford something like this, let alone the delivery and setup costs.

That said, what can we realistically expect from an RSC if the common burglar breaks in? Suppose he has a grinding wheel? 5-10 minutes if he knows what he is going after and also knows what he is doing?

I figure the UL guys know their shit inside and out. Like the link says, they get blueprints of the safe design, plus they have the experience to cut into one. These guys could make a killing robbing houses...until they got caught.

I'm just curious how hard it is to cut a 12 ga, 10 ga, 8 ga, or 7-6.5 ga body.

One thing I noticed about the UL criteria is that they have to go through the door, the strongest point. Seems odd to me.


Edit: Nevermind, I just read this line in one of your posts:

Thickness of sheetmetal when surviving a basic cutting attack doesn't matter until you get up towards real 1/4" plate. Even then it doesn't take long.


Same question though. How long for thinner steel? Enough time for cops to show up if the thief knows what he is up against?



Link Posted: 1/25/2009 2:44:58 PM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meilink makes great stuff. True horror-shows for thieves.

Keep in mind with a large TL-30 rated safe like that, you're likely to pay almost as much again for shipping and rigging work if you're putting that in a basement.

But if you've got the cash and a place to put it that can bear the weight, TL-15 or higher is the only way to go.




I've followed your posts and you seem to have excellent understanding of what it takes to cut into RSCs/Safes. From one of your other responses, I got the impression you cut metal for a living.

Most posters in this forum (including myself) can't afford something like this, let alone the delivery and setup costs.

That said, what can we realistically expect from an RSC if the common burglar breaks in? Suppose he has a grinding wheel? 5-10 minutes if he knows what he is going after and also knows what he is doing?

I figure the UL guys know their shit inside and out. Like the link says, they get blueprints of the safe design, plus they have the experience to cut into one. These guys could make a killing robbing houses...until they got caught.

I'm just curious how hard it is to cut a 12 ga, 10 ga, 8 ga, or 7-6.5 ga body.

One thing I noticed about the UL criteria is that they have to go through the door, the strongest point. Seems odd to me.


Edit: Nevermind, I just read this line in one of your posts:

Thickness of sheetmetal when surviving a basic cutting attack doesn't matter until you get up towards real 1/4" plate. Even then it doesn't take long.


Same question though. How long for thinner steel? Enough time for cops to show up if the thief knows what he is up against?





Cutting sheetmetal is easy but there are lots of 'depends' questions for how long it'll take. The thickness of 7 vs 10g doesn't mean squat relatively though. The biggest problems are access + ventilation&visibility(hard operating in a small closet filled with burning sparks/smoldering carpet and heavy smoke)

Try it yourself. For less than 100 bucks you can get a 4.5" little angle grinder and a whole variety of cutting wheels. Go slash some scrap metal. Now imagine a $2,000 gas powered demo saw with a huge cutting wheel.

Of course the heavier the cabinet the better. And the heavier metal can, in theory, resist prying attacks better if it's folded right. But until you get into some of the thicker plates like 3/8" and up, prying attacks will still be very effective.

A typical good, heavy RSC rated safe probably won't last more than 30 minutes for an intelligent thief with common power tools. If the guys have hacked into a few safes before and bring better toys you're looking at less than 10 minutes. Not long. But if they're just typical smash n' grab thieves they probably won't even try.

Again, that's in an ideal situation. If the safe is bolted in a tiny concrete closet in the basement with limited access it's going to take a lot more time.

What you can do, besides making access a total bitch, is leave a bunch of other stuff like long extension cords right near the safe that are rigged to short out. This will trip breakers and suck up more time. Put a ton of battery powered smoke alarms around. They'll be wearing ear protection anyway but it'll make them have to stop and smash the detectors. Have the closest outlet to the safe labeled "20 Amp". And have it rigged to short out as well. Little things are what will cost them time. Cutting the metal is easy.

YOU control the environment 100%. Use your imagination ahead of time to design a total nightmare for the would-be thieves.

Just don't "booby-trap" anything designed to hurt anyone. It's illegal and good way to get somebody you never intentioned to hurt killed or maimed.




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