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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/25/2005 11:12:58 AM EDT
I've seen pics of these guns and have seen them in use on the discovery channel and such but have never seen one in person. Are they that unliked, rare, or can you not get them because of the import ban? Any other info would be great. Thanks
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:26:09 AM EDT
IIRC, they are made by Brit gov't arsenals(enfield?) and are not available on the civilian market. the First versions seemed to have a lot of problems like dust covers breaking off, poor triggers even for bullpups, reliability issues. HK was hired to iron out some problems and do some redesigning. Although the second versions are supposed to be better, it's still no sweatheart.

I read somewhere that most of the Brit hi-speed guys prefer M16's/M-4's when they are able to get them.

YMMV

Blitz
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:05:44 PM EDT
There is a rumor that there is a couple (As in less than 5) semi autos here in the states.
IIRC, the guy who was developing it got into finicial trouble and placed the prototypes, all the parts kits and the design up for sale for around $50k. This was a while back tho, haven't heard anything about it since.

Pretty neat little weapon tho.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:11:47 PM EDT
there was a few semi auto L85's made but it was very few and during our import ban....one might have a slim chance at an L96 cadet rifle.....its the L85 with no gas system at all and the bolt has to be worked for each shot like a straight pull bolt rifle...some of those made it to canada.
There are a few post may86 dealer sample L85's in this country and run almost 3000.00 last I looked for a class 3 dealer to buy...not tranferable to anybody but another class 3 or a police dept.
this is my bosses post may sample I had doing a demo pictured with the first Enfield type, the 1853 and a No4MK1....
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:32:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pillbox:
there was a few semi auto L85's made but it was very few and during our import ban....one might have a slim chance at an L96 cadet rifle.....its the L85 with no gas system at all and the bolt has to be worked for each shot like a straight pull bolt rifle...some of those made it to canada.
There are a few post may86 dealer sample L85's in this country and run almost 3000.00 last I looked for a class 3 dealer to buy...not tranferable to anybody but another class 3 or a police dept.
this is my bosses post may sample I had doing a demo pictured with the first Enfield type, the 1853 and a No4MK1....
img207.imageshack.us/img207/1839/200504070050dv.jpg



Thanks for the cool pic, pillbox.................oh, how I would love to own one!!!
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 2:55:39 PM EDT
Thanks, here is one more with a Brit L1A1

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:41:46 PM EDT
It looks a hell of a lot better than an F2000

I like it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 3:59:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pillbox:
Thanks, here is one more with a Brit L1A1

img172.imageshack.us/img172/3941/guns040156ym.jpg



As an avid fan of the bullpup, I am still on a quest to locate an L85 for sale. If they (or it) do exist for sale in the US, then it makes my locating and buying the FAMAS pale in comparison (and I thought THAT was a rare and tough gun to snap up). Thanks again, pillbox.........if you have more, keep 'em coming!
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:41:50 PM EDT
Got to handle some when I did a little training with the BRMs doing MOUT.

The SA80A2 feels nice when you have it shouldered. Optic is nice, but IMHO the ACOG is better. Feels akward carring it(but I am not used to it). Its right handed only, and the manual of arms is slightly slower then a M16a2. Also its about 11 pounds unloaded.

Personaly, I wouldnt feel unarmed with one, but I would take a M4 or M16 over one any day of the week.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:03:23 AM EDT
For the full story of the SA80's trials and tribulations, see this

The current L85A2 is now as reliable as anything else, and more accurate than most.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:37:00 AM EDT
The SA80 did get a bad rap...one that was certainly deserved. However, now that HK has completed delivery on the L85A2 which has a number of improvements, it has seemingly been performing quite well. The only weakness I see with this weapon is its magazine, which is inferior to the USGI unit and the SAW variant poses a number of problems, even now that it too has been upgraded. On paper, this should have been one of the best fighting rifles in the world, or certainly NATO. How they managed to bastardize an AR180 so bad, we will never know. As of late, the weapon is performing as required but is deployed and distributed much like our A2's, which are

now aging and being augmented by A4's and M4's. High Speed British units like the 22 SAS use M16s, now being made by Diemaco. The Brits now are facing a decision to further upgrade thier L85A2s or adopt another weapon, almost certainly an updated and improved HK G36, not the XM8. I have only seen two in my "civilian" life, one being a legally owned semi auto example and another being a recent dealer sample provided by Saber's European subsidiary, IIRC. Shooting it was rather unremarkable and it behaved like any other bullpup. The accuracy was excellent, this is likely attributed to the floating barrel and the cyclic rate is obscene. Its much to much to be accurately controlled. 700 RPM should be considered "ideal" and ours was more like 1200 RPM IIRC. It was fun to play with, but its full auto capability has limited utility in the rifle version.

Magazine changes were awkward and the gun heats up and makes your face hot, but this is the nature of this configuration. I did really like the SUSAT sight, but it aint no ACOG. If it were more widely availible it would be a cheaper alternative to the Elcan or ACOG. I would never buy one, nor would I reccomend buying one. I am a fan of the direct gas impingement rather than using clunky pistons which have components that break and increase recoil and decrease accuracy...So I say buy an A2 or M4gery, but if you have to have a bullpup get an AUG, or a FAMAS if you want something different. Both will be sufficient to make you dislike the configuration as I have come to.
good luck with your search.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:18:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
High Speed British units like the 22 SAS use M16s, now being made by Diemaco. The Brits now are facing a decision to further upgrade thier L85A2s or adopt another weapon, almost certainly an updated and improved HK G36, not the XM8.



The SAS has long used the M16 (since before the SA80 was introduced, I believe), partly because it's lighter, partly because until recently the L85 wasn't issued with an under-barrel grenade launcher.

There are no plans that I'm aware of for the SA80s to be replaced in the foreseeable future. They were completely (and expensively) rebuilt by HK only a few years ago, and the army is now well pleased with them. They are even introducing a new variant at the moment - a very short-barrelled carbine for use by tanker crews.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:34:29 PM EDT
Every Brit soldier I have ever talked to said it was a POS. Too fragile, and not very reliable.

The thing is heavy, allot heavier then a M16A2....
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:09:23 AM EDT
The L85A2 is very good! The L85A1 was very poor!

The A2 has a lower stoppage rate than the M16/M4 if you look at some of the test results
Heavy, nah! And it comes as 'Infantry Standard' with a 4X Optic remember!
Just don't bother with it's issue irons!

As previous posters refered :- The SUSAT is okay, but the TA01 NSN is better!
(ELCAN is a good optic, but bulky and has a bad mount!)

For more A2 pictures check out

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=5&t=204988
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:37:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2005 10:39:42 AM EDT by LonePathfinder]
The Brits don't use the LSW variant as their primary SAW weapon anymore. They do still retain it but in a DMR role. They bought a bunch of Para Minimi for use as SAWs. 1 LSW, 1 SAW, 1 Rifle and 1 Rifle with HK 40mm Gernade Launcher is their standard fire team now, or so I've heard.

One point on the Optics. Yes there are better optics out there now, but the Brits have had Optics as standard equipment on their rifles for many years before the US did. Its only natural that US optics are all new and hence have some newer features.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 10:46:26 AM EDT
The LSW is being brought into a DMR role slowly, it needs a better optic to complement it's longer barrel, and increased accuracy.
Something with higher magnification and adjustable windage or with azimuth markings would be nice. Still very much in the development stage at the moment.

The LSW remains an additional bridge between the rifle and the GPMG, as the Para Minimi has not got the 'legs' to provide anything but 'across the street' supression.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 12:31:43 PM EDT
Get A Bushy M-17, It will feel the same.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:02:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Postal0311:
Got to handle some when I did a little training with the BRMs doing MOUT.

The SA80A2 feels nice when you have it shouldered. Optic is nice, but IMHO the ACOG is better. Feels akward carring it(but I am not used to it). Its right handed only, and the manual of arms is slightly slower then a M16a2. Also its about 11 pounds unloaded.

Personaly, I wouldnt feel unarmed with one, but I would take a M4 or M16 over one any day of the week.



+1, pretty much my experience. I got to play with one when we were training with the RAF Regiment guys. Heavy, didn't point as well for me as the 16.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 5:30:51 PM EDT
id take the L1A1 anyday
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 6:43:49 PM EDT
Handled them, didn't particularly like them, neither did the guys I talked to whom were issued it.

They do feel awkward but many rifles when I was younger or that I first buy are, then after a few days of handling I get over it so that's objective. Bayonet fighting, HAH. It may NOT be needed, but I'd rather have the capability and not need it than NEED it and not HAVE it. Them boys with the bullpups DON'T have it. I'd rather use that bayonet as a fighting knife in my hands than put it on the end of that L85A2. If you're a lefty, good luck from what I hear from the brit troops I've spoken with.
All in all, I'll still with an AR, or an M14, or an FAL or a AK God forbid
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:46:54 AM EDT
The boys in Iraq managed a bayonet charge ok..................

But I too would prefer the reach of the L1A1
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 6:44:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 6:48:28 PM EDT by Templar]
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:02:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
...but if you have to have a bullpup get an AUG, or a FAMAS if you want something different. Both will be sufficient to make you dislike the configuration as I have come to.
good luck with your search.



Let me know where you found a FAMAS stateside that I can legally own...

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:48:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:

Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
...but if you have to have a bullpup get an AUG, or a FAMAS if you want something different. Both will be sufficient to make you dislike the configuration as I have come to.
good luck with your search.



Let me know where you found a FAMAS stateside that I can legally own...





Some guy here has one.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:51:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:

Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
...but if you have to have a bullpup get an AUG, or a FAMAS if you want something different. Both will be sufficient to make you dislike the configuration as I have come to.
good luck with your search.



Let me know where you found a FAMAS stateside that I can legally own...




There are very few semi auto FAMAS in the states. Century Arms imported them. I have no idea what the original selling price was, but they sell today (if you can find one ) for $7,500 to 12,000. Cloak-n-Carbine just bought one a few months ago.

There are some semi auto L85s in the country. They are worth $15,000 and up VERY VERY Rare.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 10:19:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:12:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By nf9648:

Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
...but if you have to have a bullpup get an AUG, or a FAMAS if you want something different. Both will be sufficient to make you dislike the configuration as I have come to.
good luck with your search.



Let me know where you found a FAMAS stateside that I can legally own...





Some guy here has one.



Yep one of my customers and buds has one, he's a member here. I don't believe he's ever shot it though. I was very impressed with it as far as handling and ergonomics, far better than an AUG.



Let me know if he wants to part with it, Ill shoot it...
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:39:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 11:54:42 AM EDT by AgentFork]
I've read some of those articles before, I believe Small Arms Review had a segment on the new SA80.

The stats brought up about the M4 seemed a little random with no real solid findings. Sounds like most of the malfunctions they mentioned are almost always caused by shitty mags.

The M16 series has been in use with no major flaws for over 30 years now. The SA80 A2 has now barely seen widespread issue.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 10:32:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:

Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
...but if you have to have a bullpup get an AUG, or a FAMAS if you want something different. Both will be sufficient to make you dislike the configuration as I have come to.
good luck with your search.



Let me know where you found a FAMAS stateside that I can legally own...





UZI4you.....good attention to detail. I picked one up for $7,000, and that was for the FAMAS in Exc/98% condition, SEVEN original 25 round mags, an original OD green mag pouch, the original color (very rare) manual, original bayonet and scabbard, and original sling.......all came in an Assault Systems case from Rick's Gun Shop in VT (somewhere up by the Canadian border). All in all this package, especially if separated, could quite possibly fetch 9,000 to 10,000 G's to the right buyer. Sometimes you just get lucky...like I did. BTW, the thing f'in rocks. I got pics if anyone knows how to host 'em, I'll shoot you the emails. Hope it doesn't sound like I'm gloating, just happier than a pig in shit with this gun
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 11:23:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cloak-n-carbine:

Originally Posted By nf9648:

Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
...but if you have to have a bullpup get an AUG, or a FAMAS if you want something different. Both will be sufficient to make you dislike the configuration as I have come to.
good luck with your search.



Let me know where you found a FAMAS stateside that I can legally own...





UZI4you.....good attention to detail. I picked one up for $7,000, and that was for the FAMAS in Exc/98% condition, SEVEN original 25 round mags, an original OD green mag pouch, the original color (very rare) manual, original bayonet and scabbard, and original sling.......all came in an Assault Systems case from Rick's Gun Shop in VT (somewhere up by the Canadian border). All in all this package, especially if separated, could quite possibly fetch 9,000 to 10,000 G's to the right buyer. Sometimes you just get lucky...like I did. BTW, the thing f'in rocks. I got pics if anyone knows how to host 'em, I'll shoot you the emails. Hope it doesn't sound like I'm gloating, just happier than a pig in shit with this gun



Shoot me an email, Ill put them up.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 6:11:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By UZI4you:

There are some semi auto L85s in the country. They are worth $15,000 and up VERY VERY Rare.



Some? Cool, I only thought there were two.

If I had the cash, I'd get one. I think they look neat.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 4:59:23 PM EDT
IM sent your way.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:23:39 PM EDT
Haloemt, sorry to hijack your thread. If I was more computer literate, I'd start a new thread with the pics of my FAMAS that were requested......I sent them to nf9648. Anyway, I hope you enjoy them.....after all, they are somewhat related in that they and the L85 (and the AUG !) are bullpups. God, how I love bullpups!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:05:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 7:23:50 PM EDT by nf9648]
Photobucket downsized them, they wee a lot bigger. Ill see if I can get them back to normal size, heres the pics right now...must say, nice toys!



Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:25:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 7:36:22 PM EDT by cloak-n-carbine]

Originally Posted By nf9648:
Photobucket downsized them, they wee a lot bigger. Ill see if I can get them back to normal size, heres the pics right now...

img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/mas1.jpgimg.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/mas2.jpgimg.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/mas3.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/mas4.jpgimg.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/mas5.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/augs1.jpgimg.photobucket.com/albums/v669/nf9648/lineup1.jpg



nf9648, thanks for posting my pics, and for the complement bud! I have no other hobbies beside power lifting, fishing, and shooting/collecting rare and exotic (mostly foreign) assault weapons, so with the money that I might otherwise spend on hobbies other guys have like snowmobiles, boats, motorcycles, etc, etc, I try to build upon it every chance I get. I do save for retirement, and am otherwise pretty responsible with the dough flow, but when I see a gun I feel I need, I do my best to find a way to buy it. In a way, this is still sort of an investment if you think about it. BTW, Sorry about the fem pink towel under the FAMAS......it must have been laundry day and that's all I had...

ETA: I asked my wife for one of the few (if any) L85's for my birthday which just passed, but instead she let me buy a NIB Polytech Legend w/all the goodies!!! I told her it was the best gift (aside from our beautiful children, of course) that she ever could have given me......even though I bought it for myself, her "green light" to buy it was my gift!!!
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:35:14 PM EDT
Hey, LarryG36.....if you're still on this site, and read this thread, let us know the scoop on the availability of the L85, 'cause word has it that you may have one. If you do, and ever want to part with it, I'd be happy to discuss matters
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:50:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bearcat6:
Get A Bushy M-17, It will feel the same.



Like shit.
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