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Posted: 8/7/2014 4:31:01 PM EDT
So from what I see so far it costs $270 for the stamp and they claim that covers my local transfer fee. So does it circumvent a form 3? And once the form 4 clears is it just as simple as going to my dealer and taking it home without doing anything?
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 4:38:13 PM EDT
It was great when e forms was up. One stop shopping.

now they submit your trust papers by mail....until e forms is back online.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 4:38:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
So from what I see so far it costs $270 for the stamp and they claim that covers my local transfer fee. So does it circumvent a form 3? And once the form 4 clears is it just as simple as going to my dealer and taking it home without doing anything?
View Quote

The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 4:39:57 PM EDT
And you may find this handy: How Silencer Shop Direct Works.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 4:48:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved.
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
So from what I see so far it costs $270 for the stamp and they claim that covers my local transfer fee. So does it circumvent a form 3? And once the form 4 clears is it just as simple as going to my dealer and taking it home without doing anything?

The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved.


So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here?
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 4:55:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BoxofRox:


So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here?
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Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
So from what I see so far it costs $270 for the stamp and they claim that covers my local transfer fee. So does it circumvent a form 3? And once the form 4 clears is it just as simple as going to my dealer and taking it home without doing anything?

The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved.


So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here?
Basically, except they can file the Form 4 once they receive the Form 3 approval on the selected dealers behalf, and since my dealer doesn't charge for transfers, I don't use SSD...
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:04:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AlabamaPaul:
Basically, except they can file the Form 4 once they receive the Form 3 approval on the selected dealers behalf, and since my dealer doesn't charge for transfers, I don't use SSD...
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Originally Posted By AlabamaPaul:
Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
So from what I see so far it costs $270 for the stamp and they claim that covers my local transfer fee. So does it circumvent a form 3? And once the form 4 clears is it just as simple as going to my dealer and taking it home without doing anything?

The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved.


So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here?
Basically, except they can file the Form 4 once they receive the Form 3 approval on the selected dealers behalf, and since my dealer doesn't charge for transfers, I don't use SSD...

Either way they have to ship the suporessor to me. Whether it be after the form 3 to have me fill out a form 4 or if they ship it after they do a form 4 and a form 3. So it sounds like the same exact time to me. And I don't kind going to town and filling out a form 4 by hand, my dealer is pretty easy going and doesn't charge much.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:08:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here?
View Quote

Yep. All the same.

The advantages of not using it include:
1. You may find a dealer closer than one they have an agreement with (closest one to me is ~75 miles away)
2. You may find a dealer that charges less than $70 for an NFA transfer (SS charges $205 for the stamp to cover CC fees, or $270 for the SSD deal).

For instance, I have a dealer that's about 30 miles from me, and charges $50...so I could've gone through him. But, for me, it was worth the less hassle to use SSD. I can either drive the 75 miles to pick up my three cans or have them shipped in state.

The advantages of using SSD:
1. You don't have to deal with the local dealer except to pick up the item(s).
2. The $65 is less than a lot of dealers charge ($75-$100).
3. When EForms was working, it was even better because you could use a small local dealer that might not be set up for EForms.


To me...the other major advantage of SSD is having a total price to approach a local dealer with and try to work a deal. Say you want a can that's $500. You know with SSD you can get that can for $770 out-the-door. Buying local saves the F3 wait, and while you may pay sales tax, you won't pay a transfer fee. Assuming state tax of 7%, you need to find it local for ~$533 to break even. Last one I bought I took that approach and local dealer quickly agreed to match the total price since all he had to do was cut $14 off his price.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:09:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BoxofRox:

Either way they have to ship the suporessor to me. Whether it be after the form 3 to have me fill out a form 4 or if they ship it after they do a form 4 and a form 3. So it sounds like the same exact time to me. And I don't kind going to town and filling out a form 4 by hand, my dealer is pretty easy going and doesn't charge much.
View Quote
Yep, so you might lose a few days. In my area many dealers charge up to $150 for transfers, or will not do them at all, so for many, SSD is a good deal...
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:09:40 PM EDT
I can see the appeal of doing it all on efile, but since that went to shit, doing it the old fashioned way seems fine.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:11:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

Yep. All the same.

The advantages of not using it include:
1. You may find a dealer closer than one they have an agreement with (closest one to me is ~75 miles away)
2. You may find a dealer that charges less than $70 for an NFA transfer (SS charges $205 for the stamp to cover CC fees, or $270 for the SSD deal).

For instance, I have a dealer that's about 30 miles from me, and charges $50...so I could've gone through him. But, for me, it was worth the less hassle to use SSD. I can either drive the 75 miles to pick up my three cans or have them shipped in state.

The advantages of using SSD:
1. You don't have to deal with the local dealer except to pick up the item(s).
2. The $65 is less than a lot of dealers charge ($75-$100).
3. When EForms was working, it was even better because you could use a small local dealer that might not be set up for EForms.


To me...the other major advantage of SSD is having a total price to approach a local dealer with and try to work a deal. Say you want a can that's $500. You know with SSD you can get that can for $770 out-the-door. Buying local saves the F3 wait, and while you may pay sales tax, you won't pay a transfer fee. Assuming state tax of 7%, you need to find it local for ~$533 to break even. Last one I bought I took that approach and local dealer quickly agreed to match the total price since all he had to do was cut $14 off his price.
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here?

Yep. All the same.

The advantages of not using it include:
1. You may find a dealer closer than one they have an agreement with (closest one to me is ~75 miles away)
2. You may find a dealer that charges less than $70 for an NFA transfer (SS charges $205 for the stamp to cover CC fees, or $270 for the SSD deal).

For instance, I have a dealer that's about 30 miles from me, and charges $50...so I could've gone through him. But, for me, it was worth the less hassle to use SSD. I can either drive the 75 miles to pick up my three cans or have them shipped in state.

The advantages of using SSD:
1. You don't have to deal with the local dealer except to pick up the item(s).
2. The $65 is less than a lot of dealers charge ($75-$100).
3. When EForms was working, it was even better because you could use a small local dealer that might not be set up for EForms.


To me...the other major advantage of SSD is having a total price to approach a local dealer with and try to work a deal. Say you want a can that's $500. You know with SSD you can get that can for $770 out-the-door. Buying local saves the F3 wait, and while you may pay sales tax, you won't pay a transfer fee. Assuming state tax of 7%, you need to find it local for ~$533 to break even. Last one I bought I took that approach and local dealer quickly agreed to match the total price since all he had to do was cut $14 off his price.


Makes perfect sense. The guy I do stuff through now is pretty close and pretty cheap, so I think I'll just have SS do a form 3 and go from there.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:20:53 PM EDT
And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:24:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By willdearborn919:
And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us.
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Wish it was like that in Florida, just buy it online, submit your trust paperwork and receive the suppressor in the mail.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:26:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By willdearborn919:
And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us.
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Yeah I know, pretty neat. But I'm out of state.
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 5:27:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SandWMandP15Tee:
Wish it was like that in Florida, just buy it online, submit your trust paperwork and receive the suppressor in the mail.
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Originally Posted By SandWMandP15Tee:
Originally Posted By willdearborn919:
And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us.
Wish it was like that in Florida, just buy it online, submit your trust paperwork and receive the suppressor in the mail.

Works that way in NC as well.

Can dealers not ship them in-state in FL?
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 3:51:01 AM EDT
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s?

This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 3:54:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By willdearborn919:
And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us.
View Quote


Some of the dealers in VA offer shipping to in-state customers as well. I'm personally not fond of that process, as they're required to send a copy of the 4473 to your CLEO as part of that process. No thanks.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 4:35:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 11:56:02 AM EDT by BigWaylon]
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s?

This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine.
View Quote

No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. So, I've never thought about it. Even with EForms, on an individual purchase, a copy of an F4 had to be printed out, section 15 signed, and uploaded as an attachment. ETA: not required for suppressors or AOWs

As far as them signing for the dealer, it's the same as with EForms. They've set up as authorized agents (or whatever the term is) on the FFL. That's the reason there aren't a lot of options for dealers in the SSD program. For instance, Charlotte is a pretty big city (~16th in the US), but the closest one to me was 75 miles away. I drive past multiple C3 dealers to get to the one they have an agreement with.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 5:22:40 AM EDT
I use SSD. For me it just makes things easier because I can submit everything once and not worry about it. Their closest SSD dealer is less than 5 minutes from my house and are great people. Saves me a few bucks as well.

If eforms were up it would have been great though. Even just the 3's.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 6:36:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mike_P:
I use SSD. For me it just makes things easier because I can submit everything once and not worry about it. Their closest SSD dealer is less than 5 minutes from my house and are great people. Saves me a few bucks as well.

If eforms were up it would have been great though. Even just the 3's.
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What's are the times on a form 3 right now? I got lucky and they did efile last time and it was right at a month.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 7:03:43 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
What's are the times on a form 3 right now? I got lucky and they did efile last time and it was right at a month.
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My last three were ~7 weeks. Two filed in April, one in June.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 9:06:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

My last three were ~7 weeks. Two filed in April, one in June.
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
What's are the times on a form 3 right now? I got lucky and they did efile last time and it was right at a month.

My last three were ~7 weeks. Two filed in April, one in June.

That's not too bad I guess. I wad thinking 3 months.

Thanks for all the info, I learned some good stuff.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 9:11:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. So, I've never thought about it. Even with EForms, on an individual purchase, a copy of an F4 had to be printed out, section 15 signed, and uploaded as an attachment.
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Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all.

Link Posted: 8/8/2014 9:16:22 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers:


Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all.

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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. So, I've never thought about it. Even with EForms, on an individual purchase, a copy of an F4 had to be printed out, section 15 signed, and uploaded as an attachment.


Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all.



When I did my paper forms through my trust I had to fill out a bunch of shit and sign my name a handful of times. But it was also my dealers first time doing papers under a trust. So I guess we'll see how it turns out.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 11:55:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2014 11:56:50 AM EDT by BigWaylon]
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers:


Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all.
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. So, I've never thought about it. Even with EForms, on an individual purchase, a copy of an F4 had to be printed out, section 15 signed, and uploaded as an attachment.


Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all.


That's right, another exception. To add to this, here's the eForm bulletin (see the bottom half starting with Transferee Certification):



Looks like AOWs are also exempt, just like on the 5320.20.
Link Posted: 8/8/2014 4:28:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BoxofRox:

When I did my paper forms through my trust I had to fill out a bunch of shit and sign my name a handful of times. But it was also my dealers first time doing papers under a trust. So I guess we'll see how it turns out.
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I wouldn't worry about it. Unless you really dissect the instructions, it's easy to miss.
Link Posted: 8/9/2014 4:39:57 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp.
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s?

This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine.

No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp.


Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now).
Link Posted: 8/9/2014 5:04:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2014 5:04:41 AM EDT by BigWaylon]
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now).
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Not for a suppressor or AOW. The back side (p2) is left blank. Look at page 1 and you'll see there's no spot to sign. I have two approved paper F4s right ere in front if me, and they have the transferor signature and the examiner signature, and I never signed anywhere. Never even saw the form until it showed up at my house with the can (shipped in state instead of me driving 2.5 hours to dealer).

You have to sign the 4473 when picking up the item (we mailed it back and forth), but don't sign the F4.
Link Posted: 8/9/2014 5:23:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2014 5:25:28 AM EDT by HansohnBrothers]
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:


Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now).
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Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s?

This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine.

No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp.


Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now).

To expand on what BigWaylon said; no transferee signatures are required at all for silencers or AOWs, whether eforms or paper forms for corps., trusts, individuals, associations, etc.... Transferee signatures are only required for machine guns, SBRs, SBSs and destructive devices. The 4473 must be completed by the person picking up however. Instructions on the form 4:

"Transferee Certification. Item 15 must be completed by the transferee if:
(1) the firearm to be transferred is a machinegun, short-barreled
rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device;
(2) the transferor is licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or
firearm; and
(3) the transferee is not licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or
firearm."
Link Posted: 8/9/2014 8:28:04 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers:

To expand on what BigWaylon said; no transferee signatures are required at all for silencers or AOWs, whether eforms or paper forms for corps., trusts, individuals, associations, etc.... Transferee signatures are only required for machine guns, SBRs, SBSs and destructive devices. The 4473 must be completed by the person picking up however. Instructions on the form 4:
View Quote


Interesting, I never realized that. I just assumed that the F4 had to be signed by the transferee for all items (and have been asked to do so for silencers before, by other dealers).
Link Posted: 8/9/2014 9:16:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2014 9:17:07 AM EDT by WrightP]
If I have a drivers license from another state than where I will pick my suppressor up will I have an issue if it was bought with a trust when using the SSD?
Link Posted: 8/9/2014 12:05:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WrightP:
If I have a drivers license from another state than where I will pick my suppressor up will I have an issue if it was bought with a trust when using the SSD?
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I would say yes. As I understand it, you need to be a resident of the state where the 4473 is being filled out. If that's not the case, somebody will correct me and I'll update the post.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:33:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2014 8:54:59 AM EDT by MaxTheRabbit]
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers:

To expand on what BigWaylon said; no transferee signatures are required at all for silencers or AOWs, whether eforms or paper forms for corps., trusts, individuals, associations, etc.... Transferee signatures are only required for machine guns, SBRs, SBSs and destructive devices. The 4473 must be completed by the person picking up however. Instructions on the form 4:

"Transferee Certification. Item 15 must be completed by the transferee if:
(1) the firearm to be transferred is a machinegun, short-barreled
rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device;
(2) the transferor is licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or
firearm; and
(3) the transferee is not licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or
firearm."
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Originally Posted By HansohnBrothers:
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s?

This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine.

No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp.


Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now).

To expand on what BigWaylon said; no transferee signatures are required at all for silencers or AOWs, whether eforms or paper forms for corps., trusts, individuals, associations, etc.... Transferee signatures are only required for machine guns, SBRs, SBSs and destructive devices. The 4473 must be completed by the person picking up however. Instructions on the form 4:

"Transferee Certification. Item 15 must be completed by the transferee if:
(1) the firearm to be transferred is a machinegun, short-barreled
rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device;
(2) the transferor is licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or
firearm; and
(3) the transferee is not licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or
firearm."


so if transferring a suppressor, box 15 can be completely ignored? no need to put "all lawful purposes" or whatever?

ETA: if using a trust, can box 13 also be ignored? the instructions say "if the transferee is an individual" but the actual form says "The following questions must be answered by any transferee who is not a Federal firearms licensee or government agency"

ETA2: so basically if I'm reading this thread correctly, in the case of transferring a suppressor to a trust on paper form 4, the back page of the form is left completely blank?
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 9:35:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By MaxTheRabbit:
ETA2: so basically if I'm reading this thread correctly, in the case of transferring a suppressor to a trust on paper form 4, the back page of the form is left completely blank?
View Quote

All of mine are completely blank on the back. All suppressors, all registered to a trust.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 12:13:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MaxTheRabbit:
so if transferring a suppressor, box 15 can be completely ignored? no need to put "all lawful purposes" or whatever?
View Quote

Correct. No need for anything.

ETA: if using a trust, can box 13 also be ignored? the instructions say "if the transferee is an individual" but the actual form says "The following questions must be answered by any transferee who is not a Federal firearms licensee or government agency"

Correct. Individuals must answer those questions but not trusts or corps.

ETA2: so basically if I'm reading this thread correctly, in the case of transferring a suppressor to a trust on paper form 4, the back page of the form is left completely blank?

Yup.
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