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Posted: 8/7/2014 4:38:13 PM EDT
[#1]
It was great when e forms was up. One stop shopping.
now they submit your trust papers by mail....until e forms is back online. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 4:38:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
So from what I see so far it costs $270 for the stamp and they claim that covers my local transfer fee. So does it circumvent a form 3? And once the form 4 clears is it just as simple as going to my dealer and taking it home without doing anything? The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 4:39:57 PM EDT
[#3]
And you may find this handy: How Silencer Shop Direct Works.
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Posted: 8/7/2014 4:48:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So from what I see so far it costs $270 for the stamp and they claim that covers my local transfer fee. So does it circumvent a form 3? And once the form 4 clears is it just as simple as going to my dealer and taking it home without doing anything? The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved. So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here? |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 4:55:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So from what I see so far it costs $270 for the stamp and they claim that covers my local transfer fee. So does it circumvent a form 3? And once the form 4 clears is it just as simple as going to my dealer and taking it home without doing anything? The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved. So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here? |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 5:04:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Basically, except they can file the Form 4 once they receive the Form 3 approval on the selected dealers behalf, and since my dealer doesn't charge for transfers, I don't use SSD... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So from what I see so far it costs $270 for the stamp and they claim that covers my local transfer fee. So does it circumvent a form 3? And once the form 4 clears is it just as simple as going to my dealer and taking it home without doing anything? The $270 covers stamp and transfer. They take a portion of that ($65 I believe) and pay the local dealer. You still have the F3 and F4, but SS files the F4 on behalf of the local dealer. Your local dealer simply holds the item until approved. So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here? Either way they have to ship the suporessor to me. Whether it be after the form 3 to have me fill out a form 4 or if they ship it after they do a form 4 and a form 3. So it sounds like the same exact time to me. And I don't kind going to town and filling out a form 4 by hand, my dealer is pretty easy going and doesn't charge much. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 5:08:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here? Yep. All the same. The advantages of not using it include: 1. You may find a dealer closer than one they have an agreement with (closest one to me is ~75 miles away) 2. You may find a dealer that charges less than $70 for an NFA transfer (SS charges $205 for the stamp to cover CC fees, or $270 for the SSD deal). For instance, I have a dealer that's about 30 miles from me, and charges $50...so I could've gone through him. But, for me, it was worth the less hassle to use SSD. I can either drive the 75 miles to pick up my three cans or have them shipped in state. The advantages of using SSD: 1. You don't have to deal with the local dealer except to pick up the item(s). 2. The $65 is less than a lot of dealers charge ($75-$100). 3. When EForms was working, it was even better because you could use a small local dealer that might not be set up for EForms. To me...the other major advantage of SSD is having a total price to approach a local dealer with and try to work a deal. Say you want a can that's $500. You know with SSD you can get that can for $770 out-the-door. Buying local saves the F3 wait, and while you may pay sales tax, you won't pay a transfer fee. Assuming state tax of 7%, you need to find it local for ~$533 to break even. Last one I bought I took that approach and local dealer quickly agreed to match the total price since all he had to do was cut $14 off his price. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 5:09:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Either way they have to ship the suporessor to me. Whether it be after the form 3 to have me fill out a form 4 or if they ship it after they do a form 4 and a form 3. So it sounds like the same exact time to me. And I don't kind going to town and filling out a form 4 by hand, my dealer is pretty easy going and doesn't charge much. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 5:09:40 PM EDT
[#9]
I can see the appeal of doing it all on efile, but since that went to shit, doing it the old fashioned way seems fine.
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Posted: 8/7/2014 5:11:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. All the same. The advantages of not using it include: 1. You may find a dealer closer than one they have an agreement with (closest one to me is ~75 miles away) 2. You may find a dealer that charges less than $70 for an NFA transfer (SS charges $205 for the stamp to cover CC fees, or $270 for the SSD deal). For instance, I have a dealer that's about 30 miles from me, and charges $50...so I could've gone through him. But, for me, it was worth the less hassle to use SSD. I can either drive the 75 miles to pick up my three cans or have them shipped in state. The advantages of using SSD: 1. You don't have to deal with the local dealer except to pick up the item(s). 2. The $65 is less than a lot of dealers charge ($75-$100). 3. When EForms was working, it was even better because you could use a small local dealer that might not be set up for EForms. To me...the other major advantage of SSD is having a total price to approach a local dealer with and try to work a deal. Say you want a can that's $500. You know with SSD you can get that can for $770 out-the-door. Buying local saves the F3 wait, and while you may pay sales tax, you won't pay a transfer fee. Assuming state tax of 7%, you need to find it local for ~$533 to break even. Last one I bought I took that approach and local dealer quickly agreed to match the total price since all he had to do was cut $14 off his price. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So at the end if it all it's the same exact wait time as just buying the suppressor and having them do a form 3 and then me filling out a form 4 once it shows up here? Yep. All the same. The advantages of not using it include: 1. You may find a dealer closer than one they have an agreement with (closest one to me is ~75 miles away) 2. You may find a dealer that charges less than $70 for an NFA transfer (SS charges $205 for the stamp to cover CC fees, or $270 for the SSD deal). For instance, I have a dealer that's about 30 miles from me, and charges $50...so I could've gone through him. But, for me, it was worth the less hassle to use SSD. I can either drive the 75 miles to pick up my three cans or have them shipped in state. The advantages of using SSD: 1. You don't have to deal with the local dealer except to pick up the item(s). 2. The $65 is less than a lot of dealers charge ($75-$100). 3. When EForms was working, it was even better because you could use a small local dealer that might not be set up for EForms. To me...the other major advantage of SSD is having a total price to approach a local dealer with and try to work a deal. Say you want a can that's $500. You know with SSD you can get that can for $770 out-the-door. Buying local saves the F3 wait, and while you may pay sales tax, you won't pay a transfer fee. Assuming state tax of 7%, you need to find it local for ~$533 to break even. Last one I bought I took that approach and local dealer quickly agreed to match the total price since all he had to do was cut $14 off his price. Makes perfect sense. The guy I do stuff through now is pretty close and pretty cheap, so I think I'll just have SS do a form 3 and go from there. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 5:20:53 PM EDT
[#11]
And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us.
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Posted: 8/7/2014 5:24:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 5:26:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us. Yeah I know, pretty neat. But I'm out of state. |
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Posted: 8/7/2014 5:27:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wish it was like that in Florida, just buy it online, submit your trust paperwork and receive the suppressor in the mail. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us. Works that way in NC as well. Can dealers not ship them in-state in FL? |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 3:51:01 AM EDT
[#15]
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s?
This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 3:54:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And if you live in Texas they can ship it to your door and skip the middle man BS. The 270 is for you out of state folk. The 205 is pretty much for us Texas folk. Or at least works best for us. Some of the dealers in VA offer shipping to in-state customers as well. I'm personally not fond of that process, as they're required to send a copy of the 4473 to your CLEO as part of that process. No thanks. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 4:35:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s? This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine. No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. So, I've never thought about it. Even with EForms, on an individual purchase, a copy of an F4 had to be printed out, section 15 signed, and uploaded as an attachment. ETA: not required for suppressors or AOWs As far as them signing for the dealer, it's the same as with EForms. They've set up as authorized agents (or whatever the term is) on the FFL. That's the reason there aren't a lot of options for dealers in the SSD program. For instance, Charlotte is a pretty big city (~16th in the US), but the closest one to me was 75 miles away. I drive past multiple C3 dealers to get to the one they have an agreement with. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 5:22:40 AM EDT
[#18]
I use SSD. For me it just makes things easier because I can submit everything once and not worry about it. Their closest SSD dealer is less than 5 minutes from my house and are great people. Saves me a few bucks as well.
If eforms were up it would have been great though. Even just the 3's. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 6:36:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use SSD. For me it just makes things easier because I can submit everything once and not worry about it. Their closest SSD dealer is less than 5 minutes from my house and are great people. Saves me a few bucks as well. If eforms were up it would have been great though. Even just the 3's. What's are the times on a form 3 right now? I got lucky and they did efile last time and it was right at a month. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 7:03:43 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's are the times on a form 3 right now? I got lucky and they did efile last time and it was right at a month. My last three were ~7 weeks. Two filed in April, one in June. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 9:06:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My last three were ~7 weeks. Two filed in April, one in June. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What's are the times on a form 3 right now? I got lucky and they did efile last time and it was right at a month. My last three were ~7 weeks. Two filed in April, one in June. That's not too bad I guess. I wad thinking 3 months. Thanks for all the info, I learned some good stuff. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 9:11:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. So, I've never thought about it. Even with EForms, on an individual purchase, a copy of an F4 had to be printed out, section 15 signed, and uploaded as an attachment. Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 9:16:22 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. So, I've never thought about it. Even with EForms, on an individual purchase, a copy of an F4 had to be printed out, section 15 signed, and uploaded as an attachment. Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all. When I did my paper forms through my trust I had to fill out a bunch of shit and sign my name a handful of times. But it was also my dealers first time doing papers under a trust. So I guess we'll see how it turns out. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 11:55:07 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. So, I've never thought about it. Even with EForms, on an individual purchase, a copy of an F4 had to be printed out, section 15 signed, and uploaded as an attachment. Unless it's a silencer, no transferee signature required at all. That's right, another exception. To add to this, here's the eForm bulletin (see the bottom half starting with Transferee Certification): 
Looks like AOWs are also exempt, just like on the 5320.20. |
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Posted: 8/8/2014 4:28:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I did my paper forms through my trust I had to fill out a bunch of shit and sign my name a handful of times. But it was also my dealers first time doing papers under a trust. So I guess we'll see how it turns out. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 4:39:57 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s? This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine. No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now). 
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Posted: 8/9/2014 5:04:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now). Not for a suppressor or AOW. The back side (p2) is left blank. Look at page 1 and you'll see there's no spot to sign. I have two approved paper F4s right ere in front if me, and they have the transferor signature and the examiner signature, and I never signed anywhere. Never even saw the form until it showed up at my house with the can (shipped in state instead of me driving 2.5 hours to dealer). You have to sign the 4473 when picking up the item (we mailed it back and forth), but don't sign the F4. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 5:23:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s? This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine. No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now). To expand on what BigWaylon said; no transferee signatures are required at all for silencers or AOWs, whether eforms or paper forms for corps., trusts, individuals, associations, etc.... Transferee signatures are only required for machine guns, SBRs, SBSs and destructive devices. The 4473 must be completed by the person picking up however. Instructions on the form 4: "Transferee Certification. Item 15 must be completed by the transferee if: (1) the firearm to be transferred is a machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device; (2) the transferor is licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or firearm; and (3) the transferee is not licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or firearm." |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 8:28:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To expand on what BigWaylon said; no transferee signatures are required at all for silencers or AOWs, whether eforms or paper forms for corps., trusts, individuals, associations, etc.... Transferee signatures are only required for machine guns, SBRs, SBSs and destructive devices. The 4473 must be completed by the person picking up however. Instructions on the form 4: Interesting, I never realized that. I just assumed that the F4 had to be signed by the transferee for all items (and have been asked to do so for silencers before, by other dealers). |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:16:39 AM EDT
[#30]
If I have a drivers license from another state than where I will pick my suppressor up will I have an issue if it was bought with a trust when using the SSD?
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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:05:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I have a drivers license from another state than where I will pick my suppressor up will I have an issue if it was bought with a trust when using the SSD? I would say yes. As I understand it, you need to be a resident of the state where the 4473 is being filled out. If that's not the case, somebody will correct me and I'll update the post.
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Posted: 8/10/2014 8:33:25 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To expand on what BigWaylon said; no transferee signatures are required at all for silencers or AOWs, whether eforms or paper forms for corps., trusts, individuals, associations, etc.... Transferee signatures are only required for machine guns, SBRs, SBSs and destructive devices. The 4473 must be completed by the person picking up however. Instructions on the form 4: "Transferee Certification. Item 15 must be completed by the transferee if: (1) the firearm to be transferred is a machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device; (2) the transferor is licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or firearm; and (3) the transferee is not licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or firearm." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How do they sign your Form 4s if they do the paper? Wouldn't you still have to show up to, or have your local dealer mail you, the F4s? This system works a lot better with eForms, I'd imagine. No signature required for a trust/LLC/corp. Nobody has to sign a Form 4 on behalf of the entity? Keep in mind I'm talking about paper forms here (which is the only option right now). To expand on what BigWaylon said; no transferee signatures are required at all for silencers or AOWs, whether eforms or paper forms for corps., trusts, individuals, associations, etc.... Transferee signatures are only required for machine guns, SBRs, SBSs and destructive devices. The 4473 must be completed by the person picking up however. Instructions on the form 4: "Transferee Certification. Item 15 must be completed by the transferee if: (1) the firearm to be transferred is a machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device; (2) the transferor is licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or firearm; and (3) the transferee is not licensed under the GCA to deal in such device or firearm." so if transferring a suppressor, box 15 can be completely ignored? no need to put "all lawful purposes" or whatever? ETA: if using a trust, can box 13 also be ignored? the instructions say "if the transferee is an individual" but the actual form says "The following questions must be answered by any transferee who is not a Federal firearms licensee or government agency" ETA2: so basically if I'm reading this thread correctly, in the case of transferring a suppressor to a trust on paper form 4, the back page of the form is left completely blank? |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:35:23 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ETA2: so basically if I'm reading this thread correctly, in the case of transferring a suppressor to a trust on paper form 4, the back page of the form is left completely blank? All of mine are completely blank on the back. All suppressors, all registered to a trust. |
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Posted: 8/10/2014 12:13:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so if transferring a suppressor, box 15 can be completely ignored? no need to put "all lawful purposes" or whatever? Correct. No need for anything. ETA: if using a trust, can box 13 also be ignored? the instructions say "if the transferee is an individual" but the actual form says "The following questions must be answered by any transferee who is not a Federal firearms licensee or government agency" Correct. Individuals must answer those questions but not trusts or corps. ETA2: so basically if I'm reading this thread correctly, in the case of transferring a suppressor to a trust on paper form 4, the back page of the form is left completely blank? Yup. 
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