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Posted: 11/9/2013 6:48:54 AM EST
I've encountered an interesting new problem after wet cleaning with stainless steel pins. 40 SW cases tend to stick in the powder funnel, which is also the belling die, in my Dillon Square Deal B. The wet cleaning removes all the external and internal residue from the cases. That includes the asphaltic sealer that was originally inside the case mouth to resist water entry in the factory round. In the past, I had cleaned cases with walnut shell followed by a corn cob polish. Both of those stages used a case polish which left a light and thin waxy finish on the outside and inside of the cases. I suspect that waxy film reduced or eliminated the sticking on the powder die.

This is the first batch I've tried loading since I started using the wet cleaning. It's a batch of nickel plated cases which are not particularly malleable, being nickel plated. Right now I'm running a smaller batch through the tumbler with some polish and corn cob to determine if that reduces the sticking. But I'm curious. Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon? Many thanks.
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 7:21:40 AM EST
You stripped away the powder fouling of the inside of the case, which previously acted as a lubricant.
You would experience the same with virgin brass. I suggest you take the powder funnel out , and then polish with 3M Scotchbrite Green pad.
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 7:58:04 AM EST
you just found one of the reason Dillon recomends not to wet tumble
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 8:35:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/9/2013 3:34:36 PM EST by Epidote]
Bummer. I wasn't aware of Dillon's recommendation. Also, I had never had the problem with virgin brass. although that had always been Starline (FWIW). I'll try the suggestions, plus I'll also see how the case polish does. On the other hand, I really like how much better the primer seating works.

Like so many things in life, the solution to one problem reveals a new problem lurking right behind it.

Thanks. I'll report back.

Edit with the report-back. Tumbling in corn cob with case polish with a little car wax solved the problem. It also gave the cases a nice shine.
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 3:59:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 4:09:41 PM EST
The powder die was clean and shiny. There had never been a sticking problem before loading with wet-cleaned cases. But once I made sure to final polish the cases with corn cob and polish, the problem went away.
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 4:13:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 5:48:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 6:01:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 6:09:37 PM EST
I've found two solutions to this problem on my 550.

1. Take the open end of the piece of brass and spin it on your lube pad. It puts just enough lube on the rim of the brass to ease things up a bit. I do this before sizing.

2. Hornady one shot. Give your brass a light misting. Also dry silicon lube works too but not as good.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 6:38:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 6:40:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 6:43:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 7:05:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/9/2013 7:20:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Problem is on the inside of case, not the outside.

I never use lube with carbide dies, no reason to.

But do so if you like.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By gogetumnow:
I've found two solutions to this problem on my 550.

1. Take the open end of the piece of brass and spin it on your lube pad. It puts just enough lube on the rim of the brass to ease things up a bit. I do this before sizing.

2. Hornady one shot. Give your brass a light misting. Also dry silicon lube works too but not as good.

Good luck!
Problem is on the inside of case, not the outside.

I never use lube with carbide dies, no reason to.

But do so if you like.


We're not talking about carbide dies here, we're talking about powder funnels that bell the brass and get stuck on it.

I fully understand the problem is on the inside of the case, however it is very difficult and time consuming to lube only the inside of the case.


Link Posted: 11/10/2013 5:54:10 AM EST
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Originally Posted By gogetumnow:


We're not talking about carbide dies here, we're talking about powder funnels that bell the brass and get stuck on it.

I fully understand the problem is on the inside of the case, however it is very difficult and time consuming to lube only the inside of the case.


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Originally Posted By gogetumnow:
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By gogetumnow:
I've found two solutions to this problem on my 550.

1. Take the open end of the piece of brass and spin it on your lube pad. It puts just enough lube on the rim of the brass to ease things up a bit. I do this before sizing.

2. Hornady one shot. Give your brass a light misting. Also dry silicon lube works too but not as good.

Good luck!
Problem is on the inside of case, not the outside.

I never use lube with carbide dies, no reason to.

But do so if you like.


We're not talking about carbide dies here, we're talking about powder funnels that bell the brass and get stuck on it.

I fully understand the problem is on the inside of the case, however it is very difficult and time consuming to lube only the inside of the case.




Yes. The inside of the case gets stuck on the powder funnel. And a short run in a vibratory cleaner in corn cob with case polish and a touch of liquid car wax cures the problem. It seems that the problem was discovered--and cured--a few years back when wet cleaning was becoming popular. I missed that, somehow. My bad. In some ways, I feel like Bartholomew Wiggins, the explorer who discovered America three years after Christopher Columbus. That's even though Columbus discovered a place that had already been discovered several times. Sigh. But the tumbling and waxing works anyway, and no tobacco is required.
Link Posted: 11/10/2013 12:00:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/10/2013 6:55:04 PM EST by dryflash3]
So to review, after the total PITA of wet cleaning, you finish the cases by dry tumbling with corn cob to avoid problems?

<removed> No call for this part in a technical forum. dryflash3
Link Posted: 11/11/2013 3:56:30 PM EST
Yes. The polish and wax also reduces the propensity of the brass to tarnish or darken.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 6:20:40 AM EST
So, Would it be Dillons recommendation NOT to use new brass in their reloaders?

This dosent make sense.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 7:33:21 AM EST
I am kind of anal when it comes to reloading so my prep time has lots of steps.

One of them is to stand every case mouth up for a flash hole inspection, caliber confirmation and to check stuck pins. Once I get a load inspected I will grab a few hand fulls and dip a q-tip in case lube and swirl around the inside of the case mouth. You don't need to do every case but man does it make a difference.

It really saves trouble in the actual loading process and prevents wasted components.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 8:33:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 8:41:18 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ERizzo:
So, Would it be Dillons recommendation NOT to use new brass in their reloaders?

This dosent make sense.
View Quote


Just opened a box of 6.5 Creedmoor from Hornady and it's got a slight residue on it
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 8:44:49 AM EST
Clean brass and clean dies cause galling, this is the problem here. I found using a short application of naval jelly to the dies leaves behind an iron phosphate coating which prevents this problem. I just use 10-20 seconds of contact time, then rinse with hot water and immediately oil.



Link Posted: 12/9/2013 11:41:13 AM EST
I dry my cases in the vibratory tumbler, it is loaded with Walnut and NuFinish. The cases come out very slick. For me SS media and wet tumbling has been a good investment, I like clean brass. The dry tumbling adds a protective coating to the brass that keeps it from tarnishing.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 12:53:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AJE:
I wonder how long it would last to lube the insert in the powder funnel.
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About 5 cases.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:00:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:04:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AJE:

Kinda what I figured... tearing the press apart every five rounds would hamper the efficiency a bit.
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Originally Posted By AJE:
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
Originally Posted By AJE:
I wonder how long it would last to lube the insert in the powder funnel.

About 5 cases.

Kinda what I figured... tearing the press apart every five rounds would hamper the efficiency a bit.


I suppose you could tear it apart to lube it but I just used a q-tip to dab some lube on the funnel where it contacts the case mouth ;-)
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 2:44:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/10/2013 4:27:27 AM EST by 243winxb]
http://www.starlinebrass.com/faqs/ Happens with other brass also.
Why is it hard to get the powder funnel out of the case ? There are two situations that create this problem. The first is one we have just recently identified. It seems to be associated with the dillon powder funnel and only a couple of calibers (45 Auto and 40 S&W). The land for expanding case mouth is too long and when you begin to bell mouth the bottom of expander gets into the thicker taper of case and wedges causing it to be very hard to get back out. We have modified several by increasing radius on end and slightly shortening expanding land and this eliminated the problem completely. Call Starline and we will take care of it if you wish. One other cause can be a burr at case mouth created by the final trim operation, which grabs onto expander as it comes back up. This situation does not often appear and can be fixed by deburring case mouth or inside lubing cases.
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Link Posted: 12/9/2013 3:48:05 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jhazelwood:
I dry my cases in the vibratory tumbler, it is loaded with Walnut and NuFinish. The cases come out very slick. For me SS media and wet tumbling has been a good investment, I like clean brass. The dry tumbling adds a protective coating to the brass that keeps it from tarnishing.
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Pretty much the same as what I do, and with the same results.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:29:51 PM EST
I deprime mass quantities of brass then wet tumble the cases, then resize them. Since I use case lube even with carbide dies, I run the sized cases through a standard tumbler with corn cob for a little while to remove the lube. That leaves my cases all sized and ready to load, without sticky lube issues, and without issues of sticking on powder funnels. Of course I would never have known about the powder funnel issue if I hadn't read this thread, since I haven't been wet tumbling for that long.

To respond to the "PITA of wet tumbling" post, if I didn't wet tumble, I wouldn't be able to adequately inspect every single case for usability before I put a bunch of PITA effort into loading them and finding out that some of them aren't worth my trouble. You cannot do that kind of inspection unless the brass is perfectly clean, and the only way to get that effect is to wet tumble.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:51:52 PM EST
Wowsers, talk about a lot of work.

Is this for all reloads or just precision/hunting rounds?

I couldn't imagine doing all that for my plinking rounds.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 5:51:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RacingRedGT:
Wowsers, talk about a lot of work.

Is this for all reloads or just precision/hunting rounds?

I couldn't imagine doing all that for my plinking rounds.
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I do it for all of them, but you are certainly free to do as you wish with your rounds.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 7:36:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GHPorter:
To respond to the "PITA of wet tumbling" post, if I didn't wet tumble, I wouldn't be able to adequately inspect every single case for usability before I put a bunch of PITA effort into loading them and finding out that some of them aren't worth my trouble. You cannot do that kind of inspection unless the brass is perfectly clean, and the only way to get that effect is to wet tumble.
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Folks adequately inspected brass back when they were wiping them off with a damp rag.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 10:00:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 1:29:39 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RacingRedGT:
Wowsers, talk about a lot of work.

Is this for all reloads or just precision/hunting rounds?

I couldn't imagine doing all that for my plinking rounds.
View Quote
It really isn't that much work, and certainly not a lot more than I'd done before I started wet tumbling. I go through a stack of brass to deprime them and sort out the ("who was shooting .222?") odd or obviously bad brass at that step. Once they're deprimed, they go into the tumbler and run, and I don't touch them again for a while so I can do something else. It takes only a couple of minutes to rinse and separate the brass from the pins, and then the brass goes into an inexpensive dehydrator to dry. When they're dry, they go into a container for loading later. The only real work is depriming, and I can go through 1000 cases in 90 minutes or less (including sorting by caliber and first inspection - I use a Harvey hand deprimer, so I can just dump all the range brass in a pile and deprime all of it without having to even change a case holder between calibers).

Once I have a pile of clean, inspected brass that's all the same caliber, I can size them all on my progressive press (can't beat a case feeder for handling brass for you; all I have to do is pull the handle). The sized brass goes into the tumbler with corn cob for a little while, and when it's done, I separate it and put it away. Now I have a pile of ready-to-load brass, and I've pre-done the dirty, physically difficult part of loading.

The thing is that I like all the reloading steps; it's fun, so even when I don't have a reloading project in mind, I can do a bunch of stuff related to reloading. It's also great when there's not a whole lot of free time, since I can do a few tasks without having to empty a powder measure, do a lot of clean up, or really much else.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 1:34:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By bigdb1:


Folks adequately inspected brass back when they were wiping them off with a damp rag.
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Originally Posted By bigdb1:
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
To respond to the "PITA of wet tumbling" post, if I didn't wet tumble, I wouldn't be able to adequately inspect every single case for usability before I put a bunch of PITA effort into loading them and finding out that some of them aren't worth my trouble. You cannot do that kind of inspection unless the brass is perfectly clean, and the only way to get that effect is to wet tumble.


Folks adequately inspected brass back when they were wiping them off with a damp rag.

Not adequately enough for me. Back when I wiped cases off with a rag I also wound up having to clean up my press because of crap stuck in the bottom of dirty cases, having to discover that I'd sized a bunch of cases that had hidden neck and mouth splits that only showed up after processing, and that had signs of having been loaded hot several times, none of which I could see because the brass was dirty. Walnut tumbling was better than a rag, but not that much better.

Being a perfectionist with loading (after one "oops" in loading, I am not going to risk another loading problem that could cause damage to me or my firearm), I'd rather do a little bit more labor to produce ammunition that is more consistent, starting with more thoroughly inspected brass.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 2:54:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By GHPorter:

Not adequately enough for me. Back when I wiped cases off with a rag I also wound up having to clean up my press because of crap stuck in the bottom of dirty cases, having to discover that I'd sized a bunch of cases that had hidden neck and mouth splits that only showed up after processing, and that had signs of having been loaded hot several times, none of which I could see because the brass was dirty. Walnut tumbling was better than a rag, but not that much better.

Being a perfectionist with loading (after one "oops" in loading, I am not going to risk another loading problem that could cause damage to me or my firearm), I'd rather do a little bit more labor to produce ammunition that is more consistent, starting with more thoroughly inspected brass.
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Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By bigdb1:
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
To respond to the "PITA of wet tumbling" post, if I didn't wet tumble, I wouldn't be able to adequately inspect every single case for usability before I put a bunch of PITA effort into loading them and finding out that some of them aren't worth my trouble. You cannot do that kind of inspection unless the brass is perfectly clean, and the only way to get that effect is to wet tumble.


Folks adequately inspected brass back when they were wiping them off with a damp rag.

Not adequately enough for me. Back when I wiped cases off with a rag I also wound up having to clean up my press because of crap stuck in the bottom of dirty cases, having to discover that I'd sized a bunch of cases that had hidden neck and mouth splits that only showed up after processing, and that had signs of having been loaded hot several times, none of which I could see because the brass was dirty. Walnut tumbling was better than a rag, but not that much better.

Being a perfectionist with loading (after one "oops" in loading, I am not going to risk another loading problem that could cause damage to me or my firearm), I'd rather do a little bit more labor to produce ammunition that is more consistent, starting with more thoroughly inspected brass.


Adequate is adequate. You do more work because you want to, not because you need to.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 3:53:26 PM EST
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Originally Posted By bigdb1:
Adequate is adequate. You do more work because you want to, not because you need to.
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I do the work on the front end, when I'm not up to my ears on keeping track of what I'm doing, so I don't have to do as much work later in culling bad cases. For me, it works out pretty much even.
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 4:45:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Problem is on the inside of case, not the outside.

I never use lube with carbide dies, no reason to.

But do so if you like.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By gogetumnow:
I've found two solutions to this problem on my 550.

1. Take the open end of the piece of brass and spin it on your lube pad. It puts just enough lube on the rim of the brass to ease things up a bit. I do this before sizing.

2. Hornady one shot. Give your brass a light misting. Also dry silicon lube works too but not as good.

Good luck!
Problem is on the inside of case, not the outside.

I never use lube with carbide dies, no reason to.

But do so if you like.

Try reloading cases shot in an open bolt subgun and lube is your friend.

Wait, wait uhh I need to rephase that.........
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 4:53:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 6:02:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 3:50:14 AM EST by jlow]
LOL! I just got a 650 and running into the same problem - you guys are a life saver!

This seems like the perfection solution polishing media/Nufinish for pistol brass work on the Dillon but my question is have you guys tried the same thing with bottle neck brass? I am specifically worried about the lube/case grip/excessive bolt thrust thing?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 9:49:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 11:31:37 AM EST
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Solution is easy, from one of my posts from page 1;

Only in 9mm, but a short tumble in plain corn cob cures the issue.

Dust from ther corn cob is the lube.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By jlow:
LOL! I just got a 650 and running into the same problem - you guys are a life saver!

This seems like the perfection solution polishing media/Nufinish for pistol brass work on the Dillon but my question is have you guys tried the same thing with bottle neck brass? I am specifically worried about the lube/case grip/excessive bolt thrust thing?
Solution is easy, from one of my posts from page 1;

http://http/images/2008skins/icons/doubleArrowRight.pngOriginally Posted By AJE:
Dryflash, I know you're a Square Deal User and a wet tumbler, have you experienced this?
Only in 9mm, but a short tumble in plain corn cob cures the issue.

Dust from ther corn cob is the lube.


Dryflash, I know about the lube effect from the corn cob - actually I came up with that a few years ago on this very board.

The real question though is the effect of the other lube i.e. polishing media and especially the Neufinish on bottle neck brass since at least for sure the last one i.e. Newfinish is a lube and generally lube is bad for bottle neck cartirages due to possiblity for excessive bolt thrust.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 1:04:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:28:17 PM EST
Thanks!
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