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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/24/2005 3:40:02 PM EDT
Do "plate carriers" like the IBA or the HSGI Wasatch typically have any protective value without plates inserted?

What does "In Conjunction" mean with regards to body armour?
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 7:16:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StandOnGuard:
Do "plate carriers" like the IBA or the HSGI Wasatch typically have any protective value without plates inserted?

Depends on the carrier.


What does "In Conjunction" mean with regards to body armour?
It means "In Conjunction" dictionary.reference.com/search?q=conjunction for more info.
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 10:00:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2005 10:04:21 PM EDT by Charging_Handle]
Some plate carriers offer protection against certain handgun rounds while others do not. There are stand alone plates that will protect against whatever threat they are designed for all by their lonesome. Then there are some that are designed to be used "in conjuction" (for our purposes we'll say this means they are designed to be used with) a level IIIA vest as well to achieve their rating against a particular threat.
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 12:51:53 PM EDT
I haven't seen many plate carriers that have ballistic protection.

In conjunction means that the plate will stop the rounds listed in the category it is rated at, but small fragments may penetrate which would be stopped by the soft armor.

Full-Auto
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 1:33:45 PM EDT
Hey guy
The "IBA" Used by the U.S. is not technically a Plate carrier in the sense you are meaning. YES it does carry Level 3 plates that become Level 4 When inserted behind the soft Armor. The vest itself is rated Level 3 without Plates in it. It is basically A Flak vest that accepts plates.
The WA...../ WE...... are just plate carriers, they have no Balistic Protection without plates. They are designed to carrier Level 4 "Stand Alone " Plates. Guys use them for certain situations where your more at risk of being a Heat Casualty than direct fire. But just in case you have the plates between you and the Bad guys rounds.
hope that helps
chuck
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 8:56:39 AM EDT
Should probably clarify something here. The IBA and Plates do not hold the NIJ rating (level) it is made to mil spec. The plates would also not be equivilant to a level IV since level IV stops armor pierceing, if you read the plate it is only speced to stop M80 ball. The SPEAR plates however say armor piercing.

That said, Plate carries do not typically hold a rating as stated previously. I have seen soft armor inserts for a plate carrier that can be used to go behind an in conjunction plate (like the plate issued with the IBA). Stand alone plates can be used all by themselves.

Plate carriers or full armor are used mainly based on the threat anticipated. if you threat is only going to be from rifle fire for example you may want to go with just a plate carrier since soft armor is not going to protect you against rifle rounds so no sense in carrying the extra weight. If you are expecting possible frag or lower velocity handgun rounds for example than you may want to armor up with just the soft vest. if you think you are going to get hit with all of the above than put your plates in your vest. There are also other circumstances such as need for mobility, weight reduction, and heat (as stated). you need to do an assessment of your situation and adjust for the mission.
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 2:49:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DIYTactical:
Should probably clarify something here. The IBA and Plates do not hold the NIJ rating (level) it is made to mil spec. The plates would also not be equivilant to a level IV since level IV stops armor pierceing, if you read the plate it is only speced to stop M80 ball. The SPEAR plates however say armor piercing.

That said, Plate carries do not typically hold a rating as stated previously. I have seen soft armor inserts for a plate carrier that can be used to go behind an in conjunction plate (like the plate issued with the IBA). Stand alone plates can be used all by themselves.

Plate carriers or full armor are used mainly based on the threat anticipated. if you threat is only going to be from rifle fire for example you may want to go with just a plate carrier since soft armor is not going to protect you against rifle rounds so no sense in carrying the extra weight. If you are expecting possible frag or lower velocity handgun rounds for example than you may want to armor up with just the soft vest. if you think you are going to get hit with all of the above than put your plates in your vest. There are also other circumstances such as need for mobility, weight reduction, and heat (as stated). you need to do an assessment of your situation and adjust for the mission.



+1 well said
I recommend always planning for worse case however.
cp
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 6:07:33 PM EDT
Thanks for the replys, everyone.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 9:05:41 AM EDT
I just want to clarify this. Do stand alone level IV plates stop shrapnel and pistol rounds?

Thanks,

Marco
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 3:40:16 PM EDT
Pistol rounds yes

Shrapnel ?

Roll the dice.

If it will stop a .308 or more than one .308 ?????
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 3:55:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FloridaConfederate:
Pistol rounds yes

Shrapnel ?

Roll the dice.

If it will stop a .308 or more than one .308 ?????



i know that the plates and vest that we are issued will stop .308/7.62x54r

im not to sure how many rounds that it will stop i hear 4-5 but dont quote me on that
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 8:08:45 PM EDT
Just so you don't convey the wrong impression, SAPI plates issued to troops are NOT standalone plates. They require a IIIA vest behind them to prevent the backface deformation from severely injuring or killing the wearer.
Link Posted: 7/27/2005 9:03:55 PM EDT
i was refering to level IV stand alone plates not the issue plates
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:53:06 AM EDT
While you are talking about the IBA, I have been wearing for the past seven months over here in the "sand box". It does not have level IIIA soft armor. It has level IIA soft armor (barely). It is supposed to stop up to 9mm only. It is not actually designed for this though. The soft armor is for fragmentation protection only. The plates are for rifle and lower firearms threat though. I never understood why it is rated for M80 ball though, is this to protect us from friendly fire incidents? Then to finish my rant on the IBA, I hate the design, a front opening vest sucks! It looses a lot of real estate for pouches on the front and with the plate on one side of the vest and soft armor on the other it sucks to to line up the velcro and forget about the snaps, never seen anyone able to use them. I got the tactical tailor upgrade for the IBA and it made all the difference in the world. I have the Battle lab fast attack rack plate carrier kit from Diamondback tactical. It has side protection and level IIIA soft armor all around and is really light and has a lot of real estate to put pouches on, but I cant use it here, because we have to wear the IBA, eventhough my own vest gives more protection. Oh well, you gotta love the military.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:54:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 6:09:57 PM EDT by Blueberry556]
I'm not sure where everyone is getting their information about the IBA vests, but Point Blank's wesite states in plain english "exceeds NIJ level IIIa 9mm protection"

http://www.pointblankarmor.com/interceptor.asp

the military purchased large quantities of TAP Gamma Plus plates which are level III+ stand-alone (stops everything but AP as i understand it), but you can also look up the threat levels of the plates by name here:

http://www.pointblankarmor.com/plates_military.asp

also, there seems to be a little confusion as to what the rating system means. each higher rating stops ALL previously listed calibers, so a level III plate with only M80 ball listed on it stops ALL lesser ammunition. the vast majority of "plate carriers" have no NIJ threat level rating (i have never seen one with it). i believe this is because anything with a rating is then an "outer vest" whether it accepts plates or not.
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