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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 1/28/2002 6:25:16 AM EDT
DID anyone see the "Real story of blackhawk down" on the History channel.If so what ya think?I havent read the book or seen the movie yet,but i thought there is a movie i have to go see!



For those that didnt history channel ck your listings,its got to come on again.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 6:50:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2002 6:51:17 AM EDT by Sukebe]
I've seen the movie and the History channel story. The history channel really put the smack down on Clinton and his handling of the whole thing. I have not read the book but have been told that the movie follows it very closely. See the movie, it is very good and if it wasn't for all the Clinton lovers in Hollywood it should win some awards. Not great acting(too many characters prevents developement) but a great film over all, a tragic story and very good cinematography, effects, costuming and and sound editing. Every bit as good as Saving Private Ryan. Better in my opinion because it depicts real events very closely and in great detail.
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 7:23:29 AM EDT
I've only read the book. Excellent book, one of the most intense accounts of combat I have ever read.

I'm curious, did the "combat jerk" make it into the movie?
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 7:36:50 AM EDT
...excellent history channel show...i am curious though...this book/movie has spawned a lot of debate as for the stopping power of the 5.56 v/s 7.62. on the history channel show, it sounded to me like the only 7.62 used in the engagement were from snipers above (and the two that rappelled down to help that second chopper that went down). it also sounded like the vast majority of fighting was done with the 5.56 round. is this true?

not to re-ignite the debate, btu the idea was that one shot with the 7.62 put a man down where as the 5.56 didn't have the same effectiveness. if the 7.62 was limited to a sniping role, then shot placement seems to possible be an important factor in this debate. sloth
Link Posted: 1/28/2002 10:05:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1HOLE-AR:
DID anyone see the "Real story of blackhawk down" on the History channel.If so what ya think?I havent read the book or seen the movie yet,but i thought there is a movie i have to go see!



For those that didnt history channel ck your listings,its got to come on again.



Go see the movie, it is one of the best war movie made. I enjoy the movie so much I saw it four times. The movie was soley based on the engagement that day. I was disappointed Clinton wasn't critized, but you have to figure the movie got its approval during the Clinton years, and of course, all the Clinton lover in hollywood that just adores him. Other then that, the movie stay pretty much on course and of course you have to account into the hollywood production value, so there is difference with the book.

At movies, check out Eric Bana's sunglasses at the very beginning of the movie, he has a Oakley X-frame that wasn't out untill 1999, and the delta was using Comp M's, I think comp M's wasn't around untill 1997. there is a shot of two mchinegunner, you can clear see the M60 gunner has a blet of blanks in is gun. Just some fun mistake the movies made, and something for you to look for in the movies.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 4:15:15 AM EDT
I read the online version of the book, then bought the book. I'm about 80% done with the book.
Saw the movie Saturday, then the History channel show Sat. night.

Incredible story.
What surprised me; in the History Channel show, the soldiers were angry that we pulled out.
I was like most Americans at the time, I thought "Get our boys out of there before we get any more killed."
These guys wanted to get back in there and teach the Skinnys a lesson!
I've got to respect that.

It just reminded me what an awesome thing that some young men choose to do for their country.
Hoo-ah!

><>
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 6:23:53 AM EDT
Great Movie! And very close to the book.
I didn't remember the paid spy with the cross on the top of his car from the book though, but its been a while since I read the book. The same guy showed up in the room with Durrett after his capture, or at least it looked like the same guy.

I noticed the belt of blanks in the M60. You could easily see the crimps.
Also, did you notice that almost all of our guys were shooting M-16's in semi-auto mode. I didn't hear or see any bursts. Was that realistic, maybe to save ammo, or was that a flaw in the movie?
It also looked like many of the Samoli vehicles had M2 50cal machine guns on top. I didn't think they had very many American weapons, though I'm sure they had some. I thought most of their weapons were of Soviet decent. Otherwise, very accurate movie. Must have had some good technical advisors.

I liked the History Channel show, but they were inaccurate in some of their dramatized scences, as well. For instance, there were a couple of times when one of the soldiers would be talking about someone opening up with the 50 caliber mounted on a Humvee, but the dramatized combat scene would show an M60 mounted, not an M2.

As far as the effectiveness of the 5.56, I have heard that the military study pretty much concluded that the short barrels on the CAR 15s used by some of the guys cut velocity enough that the characteristic tumbling of 5.56 round did not occur. Therefore, just a small .22 cal hole that didn't cause much bleeding. Plus, since most of the skinnies were high, they didn't know they were supposed to go down, so shock didn't play as much of a role as it normally would. I think the full-sized M16's did ok.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 6:25:59 AM EDT
I have seen the movie, read the book and happend to catch the history channel show. All three were great, but I could not get over how many times they messed up on the guns in the history channel show. This is considering how well they carried them over from the book to the movie. In the history show they kept talking about the .50 and showing pics of a M60 on a bipod on the top of a humvee. I also was shocked to see Durant (I think that was who it was supposed to be) climb out of the downed blackhawk w/ the M16. Being a gun board I just felt it is time I vented about this.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 6:55:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
At movies, check out Eric Bana's sunglasses at the very beginning of the movie, he has a Oakley X-frame that wasn't out untill 1999, and the delta was using Comp M's, I think comp M's wasn't around untill 1997.



you had to take a swipe at the Australian comedian, didnt you?? he
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 8:42:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nakey:

you had to take a swipe at the Australian comedian, didnt you??



Actually I did not know he was an Aussie, He sure did a much better job in hiding his accent then Ewan McGregor. Every time he spoke, I could hear that Scotish accent wanting to come out.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 8:52:57 AM EDT

I also was shocked to see Durant (I think that was who it was supposed to be) climb out of the downed blackhawk w/ the M16. Being a gun board I just felt it is time I vented about this.


I haven't seen the History Channel show, but in the movie Durant has an MP5.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 8:59:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
I've seen the movie and the History channel story. The history channel really put the smack down on Clinton and his handling of the whole thing. I have not read the book but have been told that the movie follows it very closely. See the movie, it is very good and if it wasn't for all the Clinton lovers in Hollywood it should win some awards. Not great acting(too many characters prevents developement) but a great film over all, a tragic story and very good cinematography, effects, costuming and and sound editing. Every bit as good as Saving Private Ryan. Better in my opinion because it depicts real events very closely and in great detail.


There was a link in the "gen disc board(BHD - Democrat Underground Review www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=90165 )" to the democratic underground, there are many Democrats out there defending Bill Clintons disasterous handling of this incident. Maybe someone should sign on to their board and tell'm to watch the Discovery Channel documentary. Personally for me, in my mind Bill Clinton messed up big time.

I would agree with you about the limited character developement in this movie. My personal recommendation is that you do both, read the book before you go see the movie, and read the book after. The movie moves very quickly, and there is no time to see who is who, what is what. The book will fill in many details.


Originally Posted By SMGLee:
At movies, check out Eric Bana's sunglasses at the very beginning of the movie, he has a Oakley X-frame that wasn't out untill 1999, and the delta was using Comp M's, I think comp M's wasn't around untill 1997. there is a shot of two mchinegunner, you can clear see the M60 gunner has a blet of blanks in is gun. Just some fun mistake the movies made, and something for you to look for in the movies.



Mr. Lee, commercial companies actally pay the movie companies for the priviledge of using their products in/during the movie. Remember the Mercedes SUV on Jurrasic Park? The Oakley X-frame was still probably in development at that time, and not in full production.

The movie BHD was moving so fast, I just didn't catch the blanks for their M60, and I saw it twice.



Originally Posted By nakey:
It kinda explained the reasoning for the operation. I can't see the film unitl april. It's rated R18+ down here and i turn 18 in april.



Personally for me, the movie is not all that violent compared to prevous war movies that I have seen. My son plays the "Half-Life" computer game, I would say probably say it is similar to that.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 9:10:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mini14jac:
I read the online version of the book, then bought the book. I'm about 80% done with the book.
Saw the movie Saturday, then the History channel show Sat. night.

Incredible story.
What surprised me; in the History Channel show, the soldiers were angry that we pulled out.
I was like most Americans at the time, I thought "Get our boys out of there before we get any more killed."
These guys wanted to get back in there and teach the Skinnys a lesson!
I've got to respect that.

It just reminded me what an awesome thing that some young men choose to do for their country.
Hoo-ah!

><>



MG Garrison said that after the guys got back to the hangar, CNN was on the TV spouting about a debacle, major defeat, etc. in Somalia and the guys thought that there was another engagement which had occurred. They were proud of having kicked major ass on the Skinnies.

He said that it took a while for it to soak in that they were in the battle being headlined, and that they didn not care much for the CNN version of events.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 9:17:42 AM EDT
I notice the M-60 blanks right away. I also noted that they were crimped like 5.56mm blanks. The blanks I used on the M-60 while in service were not crimped. The brass extended past what would be the mouth of the case and formed the shape of a sub caliber blunt bullet. It was open on the end and plugged. Are the crimped blanks Hollywood type are has the U.S. military switched to a crimped 7.62mm blank? Perhaps for the M-240(MAG 58)
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 10:17:45 AM EDT

Orig:inally Posted By SF
MG Garrison said that after the guys got back to the hangar, CNN was on the TV spouting about a debacle, major defeat, etc. in Somalia and the guys thought that there was another engagement which had occurred. They were proud of having kicked major ass on the Skinnies.

He said that it took a while for it to soak in that they were in the battle being headlined, and that they didn not care much for the CNN version of events.


No doubt the Clinton White House had pre-spun the anticipated outcome(s). CNN's dogmatic pandering to Clinton would make them the premminent media outlet to break any news item like this. So give CNN two or three templates of possible outcomes, grace them with first look and sit back and enjoy a win-win situation. The options were obviously a win for Clinton or a loss for the military. You can watch the McNews or read the McPaper and the story's gonna be the same.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 11:17:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By marvl:
I'm curious, did the "combat jerk" make it into the movie?


The only things I was looking for from the book that I didn't see was the cow getting vaporized by the mini-gun and the "combat jerk".
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 12:27:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunmonkey:

Originally Posted By marvl:
I'm curious, did the "combat jerk" make it into the movie?


The only things I was looking for from the book that I didn't see was the cow getting vaporized by the mini-gun and the "combat jerk".


I was re-reading Black Hawk Down last night, and I just got past the part about all the exploding flesh and blood all over the place. I image the PETA(People for Ethical Treatment of Animals) folks would have freaked if that scene was put in the movie.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 1:41:54 PM EDT
I saw the movie. I have the book at home, but I can't start it till I finish "Bias".

Will somebody please tell me what the 'combat jerk' is? You got me all curious now!

Link Posted: 1/29/2002 1:43:08 PM EDT

I imagine the PETA (People for Ethical Treatment of Animals) folks would have freaked if that scene was put in the movie.


Same is probably true of the People for the Eating of Tasty Animals... lot of good steaks and roasts wasted there.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 2:10:12 PM EDT
A combat jerk is exactly what it sounds like. Spankin' the monkey in combat.
Link Posted: 1/29/2002 2:25:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunbert:
Will somebody please tell me what the 'combat jerk' is? You got me all curious now!



I thought they used the term "combat jack" but it's been a couple of years since I read the book...

Before the big day, the soldiers had a lot of free time hanging out at the old airport. There was quite a bit of porn that got passed around and some of them joked about how they had 'jacked' in so many different countries, situations, etc.

So that night when the 99 soldiers were surrounded in the middle of the combat zone a couple of the Rangers were in some of the buildings right around the corner from the downed Super 61.

http://www.philly.com/packages/somalia/dec03/dec03.gif

In the middle of all this....shooting...people dying...wondering if they'll live through the night...one of the Rangers says to the other one..."Hey! Here's one we haven't heard of...a 'combat jack!'"

It was one of the funnier parts of the book.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 6:39:57 AM EDT
I agree the Clinton administration could have handled it better, but remember Bush sent us there. When he came to visit the troops in Somalia, the Secret Service made us remove the bolts from our weapons when he spoke to us. The ultimate insult was that we had to stand BEHIND French, Saudi and Pakistani (they like America, right?) troops with INOPERABLE weapons. They foreign troops had loaded weapons. One effect of the backlash on Clinton by the republican congress was cold feet in sending us to Rwanda, where we were needed.
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 9:06:31 AM EDT
I read the book first, then saw the History Channel, then finally saw the movie last week.

I thought the movie followed the book fairly closely.

I thought the best two images were:

(1) All that brass flying out the mini-gun ejection port on the Little Birds.

and

(2) The guy shooting the M14
Link Posted: 2/6/2002 11:12:55 AM EDT
I got the book in '99. I'm not sure if it's still there in the newer printing but there's an address/phone for the actual film footage of the fight in on the back flap.

KR Video
215 854-4444
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