any AR barrel under 11.5 is a waste of time unless you are dumping expensive heavy-grain ammo through it, and 11.5 is only legal in a pistol unless you SBR it.  

I built an 11.5 AR pistol expressly for a trunk gun to replace my Kel-Tec sub2000 in 9mm, which does fit in a briefcase.  The AR would not, and it's effectiveness as a semi-shouldered weapon was found wanting.

I looked seriously at the SU-16, which goes for $479 at my local gunshop.  But the SU-16 has reliability issues, is rather flimsy, spare parts are non-existant, and I realized with a sudden start that I could build an AR from parts on the EE for about $50 more.  An AR is a much more robust, dependable, flexible, and maintainable option.

So I did.  $550 for an AR from used parts.  Much more reliable, maintainable, user-friendly, and it fits into a tennis racket case when separated into two halves.

Quoted: Quoted: any AR barrel under 11.5 is a waste of time unless you are dumping expensive heavy-grain ammo through it, and 11.5 is only legal in a pistol unless you SBR it.   I built an 11.5 AR pistol expressly for a trunk gun to replace my Kel-Tec sub2000 in 9mm, which does fit in a briefcase.  The AR would not, and it's effectiveness as a semi-shouldered weapon was found wanting. I looked seriously at the SU-16, which goes for $479 at my local gunshop.  But the SU-16 has reliability issues, is rather flimsy, spare parts are non-existant, and I realized with a sudden start that I could build an AR from parts on the EE for about $50 more.  An AR is a much more robust, dependable, flexible, and maintainable option. So I did.  $550 for an AR from used parts.  Much more reliable, maintainable, user-friendly, and it fits into a tennis racket case when separated into two halves. Yet another expert opinion from someone who DOES NOT HAVE ONE. That being said, I would go with a standard pistol and get the SU16 rifle for a trunk gun. My VERY early production SU16A has been 100% reliable, SOLID as a rock and have had ZERO issues calling Keltec and having a few spares delivered to my door.

I do not have to do drugs to make a decision about their effects and make statements about why I choose not to use them.  

In the same way, I do not HAVE to own an SU-16 to justify my statements above.  I read almost every post about the rifle on KTOG and KT Range forums, including the tacked thread for those discussing reliability issues, which seems to be a trend  I've handled the rifle extensively at gun shows and the local shop, and I don't have to be a rocket scientist (even though I am) to conclude that AR parts are much more common and the AR is much easier to gunsmith than the Kel-Tec.

I'm happy that your rifle functions fine.  There are many who do not share your experience, even though KT has a great customer service dept and they'll fix it.  Your rifle is most definitely NOT solid as a rock, it's made of plastic.  Even my aluminum AR is not as solid as a granite rock.  And KT is the only source for KT parts, whereas AR parts are ubiquitous.

I spent a week trying to talk myself into an SU-16, but in the end, for the money and features, the AR came out the winner.  There is nothing the SU-16 can do that the AR can't do better, except fire when folded with the C model, and maybe weigh a bit less.  That is not enough to overcome the shortcomings unless you live in Kali. But I currently have 3 other KT products and love them.


Please rethink the "shut-up unless you own it" angle.  It's flawed if you use it generically.

I purchased the stripped lower new and had the dealer fill out the 4473 form as a pistol and call it into NICS as a pistol.  So long as the lower has never been assembled into a rifle you are fine, unless state law requires something more.

You need some simple tools to change out barrels, and it's not hard. $50 or so for an action block and barrel wrench.  Or you can shop the EE for uppers already assembled.

So, yeah, you can build up an AR in either pistol or rifle configuration for around 500 clams by smart shopping on the EE,

My pistol grew out of a whole project to find the best Emergency Carbine

Go here archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=223439  If you are a team member.  If not, perhaps now is a good time to join!

I finally decided that FOR ME, a pistol was not as good as a 16" carbine.  I can hide a carbine almost as well as a pistol, and having a shoulder stock and longer barrel improves performance dramatically.

But a pistol would be a very handy inside the vehicle weapon.  I almost bought a Levang comp for it before I rebuilt it as a rifle...

Pics of mine

The Buffer tube is wrapped with Paracord first of all to make the BATF happy.  Pistols cannot "readily accept a stock", so wrapping the tube prevents me from immediately being able to slide a telestock body on it, although this may nor really be necessary. I built the pistol with a CAR buffer for reliability and comfort reasons.  Secondly, the metal tube is cold against my face when firing.  The paracord adds insulation.

Putting the tube end against the shoulder technically violates the BATF rule against shoulder firing "pistols" , but it's not too comfortable.  I find the CAR stock too short to really fire it that way, and the area of the tube that makes contact with the shoulder is too small and it hurts a bit when fired.  Since it is hard to really pull the weapon in tight to the shoulder, if your nose is near the charging handle it will get bonked, trust me.

The best way I found to fire it was to get a "cheek weld" on the buffer tube with about two inches between my nose and the charging handle and fire it like a normal rifle. Since there is no shoulder contact, it gets a bit bouncy in rapid fire, but it works just fine for targets out to 100 yards.

i bought one of the first sold here in birmingham.

my original gun exploded on a case seperation caused by faulty ammo. Keltec went WAY above and beyond in resolving my problem. They also made a small design change to prevet a catastrophic failure like mine in future guns.

i have put close to 900 rounds through the replacement with ZERO issues. it took me awhile to get over the failure of the original gun but i now really like the pistol.

a few things about the plr16 to consider.

worthelss for an in the car gun. While it's short and regular length pistol is much more manueverable inside a vehicle.

velocity for 223 should be fine inside 75yrds or so with quality ammo. beyond that fragmentation isn't going to happen.

the keltec muzzel break is brutal. it makes little difference in muzzel rise and the sound is painful even with earplugs. my a2 flash hider works much better.

the forarm cover is a MUST have accesory. the design makes that are just way to easy to grab when the bore is hot.

sights SUCK. expect to add optics. they are hard to adjust.

the base design is robust and reliable. i have no problem using this for defense if needed.

while they look mean as hell, this really is more of a long range pistol than a defense peice. the gun is accurate but the grip is designed to be held like a normal pistol in a 2 hand grip and fired. it's a bit big to put into action fast with any accuracy.

the rear attached sling is nice for carry but gets completely in the way for shooting.

bump firing is off the damn hook with this gun


hope this helps

mike

Quoted: So the grip angle is wrong? how about one hand on the grip and one hand on the barrel with the sleeve on?   Better accuracy?  I do want the reliability.......maybe the Krink pistol with better caliber??

no the grip angle is perfect for a PISTOL.

one hand on the grip and the other on the forarm only works from the hip with this gun.

trust me when i say this. this IS NOT a gun for inside a vehicle. Noise and muzzell blast will set your car interior on fire and make your ears bleed. the nov, break works well on ar's but once again side noise isn't the issue it's contained noise. in a vehicle without ear plugs..... i'd almost rather get shot by the car jacker.

inside the car i'd MUCH prefer a regular handgun like my 1911 or xd45. moremanuverable and more than capable at such distances.

Don't get me wrong this is a cool concept and a decnt gun for the money. i just don't think in that role it's a very good idea. I would likely put the krink pistol in the same category.