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Posted: 8/2/2006 1:23:32 PM EDT
I'm new to C&R and thinking about investing in a surplus rifle for target and truck carry, reasonable accuracy. What rifle would best fit my needs under $200?
Link Posted: 8/2/2006 1:36:38 PM EDT
M-48 Yugo Mauser...you can't beat it.
Link Posted: 8/2/2006 1:43:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2006 1:45:00 PM EDT by Chris_1522]
Yugo Mauser is a nice choice.

So are Mosin Nagants. For a little over $200, you can get two! They shoot uber-cheap 7.62x54R which is very, very inexpensive and will likely be available for a long time to come. You can get an M91/30 which is nice and easy to shoot but is very long. You can also get the M44 or M38 which are both short and easy to fit in your truck, but with the very powerful cartridge and short barrel, they have quite a muzzle blast and mean recoil. This is a good thing to me (a lot of fun!), but some find it objectionable.

Another option is the Ishy 2A we're all pretty excited about, but get one soon. They're kind of heavy and kind of long, but from early reports they seem to be very accurate and they shoot the readily available, typically non-corrosive 7.62 NATO (it's recommended that you stay away from hot .308 Winchester hunting rounds).
Link Posted: 8/2/2006 1:58:03 PM EDT
My Yugo SKS was a pretty good buy under $200.00 I think...
Link Posted: 8/2/2006 2:28:30 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By DM1975:
My Yugo SKS was a pretty good buy under $200.00 I think...


i wish i could get one of those....

stupid PRK laws...
Link Posted: 8/2/2006 4:09:30 PM EDT
K31! You will have a hard time finding a more accurate rifle, anywhere.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/2/2006 4:16:44 PM EDT
Finn M39 from here.
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 7:13:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 11:33:40 AM EDT
best accuracy under 200 bucks- Swiss K31- no brainer.
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 11:44:37 AM EDT
C&R under $200?

You have many choices.

There are a multitude of mausers out there in that price range (Yugo M48,M48A Czech M24, Turk M1903, ect. If you shop around, you might wind a Russian capture K98 in that range)

Mosin Nagants: M91/30, M38, N44 and maybe M91s would all be in that range (You couldprobably get two, actually, and have money left oevr for ammo)

Finnish Mosin Nagants can be had for under $200, for the less collectable variants. ( I recently bought a Finn capture M91 for $169 at a local shop that is usually high)

The Swiss K31 can be had, in very good condition, for under $200 and are reputed to be one of the bast-shooting Milsurps out there.

The SKS is always a good bet.



Link Posted: 8/3/2006 11:44:50 AM EDT
He said best. That can only mean Mauser.
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 1:12:23 PM EDT
You can get an outstanding Turk Mauser for under $100.

Mausers are okay if you don't mind the drawbacks.

-Almost all the milsurp ammo is highly corrosive.
-The bolt design won't allow you to change headspace without trashing the entire bolt (unlike an Enfield or Mosin).
-The standard Mauser sights are dreadful by almost all standards.
-There are three or four different receiver lengths, several different bolt styles, and they are not interchangeable.
-The carbine length ones are brutal to shoot.

They made so many Mausers because they could, not because they are the best design....kinda like the Chevy Vega.
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 1:15:44 PM EDT
Swedish Mauser,You might be able to find one under $200. Probably more like under $300. With the right loads the 6.5 Swede is very accurate...
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 1:19:08 PM EDT
K31 beats a mauser hands down any day of the week. The quality, accuracy, smoothness of the triggers and action...all head and shoulders about a Mauser.
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 2:03:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dvr9:
K31 beats a mauser hands down any day of the week. The quality, accuracy, smoothness of the triggers and action...all head and shoulders about a Mauser.


The Swiss never used corrosive ammo and were fanatics about cleaning and maintaining their rifles, so the bores are all excellant.
These rifles will shoot 1 MOA with their milsurp ammo- it's match grade ammo.
The K31 2 stage trigger is match grade- very smooth and breaks like glass.
There was a write-up in Rifle magazine a few years ago. The writer confirmed the fit and finish are well above anything commercially available today. He actually said the only rifle he had that came close was a custom $1500.00 Weatherby, and the K31 was a little more accurate.

It is a little more difficult to mount a scope, but a St.Maries clamp-on mount seems to worke very well for a lot of people.
Ammo can be a little scarce, and hunting ammo is expensive, but the milsurp ammo is around $22.00 per brick of 60 rounds. It is easy to load for- it uses .308 bullets. You do need to be careful about what bullet you use though. The throat is a little short and the ogive on some .308 bullets can cause difficulty, but it is not a real problem. There are a lot of people who load for it and a good bullet is easy to find.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 2:48:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dcs12345:
I'm new to C&R and thinking about investing in a surplus rifle for target and truck carry, reasonable accuracy. What rifle would best fit my needs under $200?


I would concurr with the recommendations for the K31 and the Mauser.

I bought a real nice walnut stocked k31 for about $150 (birch stocks are cheaper). As others have said, the bores are usually pristine on these and they're accurate shooters. You can buy surplus Swiss ammo (good stuff) for about $20 per 60 rounds. It's got a funky but cool action.

I also recently bought a damn near perfect Yugo v.24 for $119. Had to spend three days getting all the cosmoline off it but it turned out really nice. There's cheap corrossive ammo for the Mauser but I won't use it. Non-corrossive ammo starts at about $10 per 20 (Wolf or other eastern european suppliers). Lots more choices in commercial ammo than for the K31.

I suppose if I had to choose for a trunk gun I'd probably go with the Mauser. I would highly recommend getting a Mojo sight for whichever you go with.

BTW, another (non-C&R) option would be a .30-30 lever gun. You can still find used Marlins for less than $200. They cycle fast, handle and aim fast and ammo is everywhere. Just another alternative.
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 2:57:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pepperbelly:
K31! You will have a hard time finding a more accurate rifle, anywhere.

Jim


+1

Love my K-31...

-Jbot
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 4:22:10 PM EDT
Bladeswitcher-
1 small correction. It's not Birch wood - it's Beech.

Link Posted: 8/3/2006 4:59:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By migrabill:
Bladeswitcher-
1 small correction. It's not Birch wood - it's Beech.



I wondered if I was getting that wrong. Thanks for the correction.
Link Posted: 8/3/2006 6:14:36 PM EDT
First choice would be a K31. Besides being accurate, the straight pull action is incredibly fast. They hold 6 rounds, and with the chargers are very fast to reload.

Second choice would be a Yugo M48 Mauser. Relatively accurate. Rugged. they have the bent bolt which with their slightly shorter length (vs a Swede 96 or German 98 mauser) makes them a compact rifle.
Link Posted: 8/4/2006 10:39:55 AM EDT
Bought a k31 thursday. Seems to be a good shooter with a good barrel and chamber. The stock is already dinged up a little so I'm not going to feel bad when it gets more. My rifle was made in 1938 and has the name of the person that it was issued to. I see that as one of the unique features of these rifles as well as the slick action. Thanks for the info
Link Posted: 8/4/2006 10:59:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gewamser:
M-48 Yugo Mauser...you can't beat it.


Absolutely right!

Link Posted: 8/4/2006 11:14:57 AM EDT
K31 is by far the best milsurp for accuracy and trigger. GP11 surplus ammo is a little expensive, but not so much as commercial stuff. A handpick walnut K31 from (anywhere) is your best bet. A Finn M39 would be choice two.
Link Posted: 8/4/2006 11:34:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2006 11:36:53 AM EDT by Shane333]
I have both an M48 Mauser and a K31.

It is an absolute fact that the K31 has a trigger that is unbelievably good. Out of the box (or rather; as soon as you clean it) it shoots like a dream, and working the bolt is a tactile pleasure. Very accurate and the ammo is very, very good (and non-corrosive) though it is pricey for milsurp.

The Mauser is an old workhorse. It is reliable as the day is long. Corrosive milsurp ammo is available and relatively cheap. Just make sure to clean it when you're done. The iron sights stink on the mauser, and though it has great accuracy potential, you probably won't see it without a scope. The problem is that scope mounts tend to be pricey.

Summary: Both rifles are great, but if you want something that will shoot terrific for you right out of the box, I recommend the K31. After you get the K31, save up $400+ so you can buy an M48, the scope mount, and a scope.

Link Posted: 8/4/2006 11:38:08 AM EDT
It K-31 is arguably the finest production rifle ever made. But I wouldn't use one as a truck gun.
Link Posted: 8/4/2006 2:23:02 PM EDT
Just wanted to add that my k-31 has one of the best barrels of any milsurp that I own (it gets competition mostly from one of my Garands and my 03A3) and its trigger is supurb.

For under two bills, the K31 is hard to beat.
Link Posted: 8/4/2006 7:23:33 PM EDT
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Enfield. You can get a Savage No4 Mk1 from SOG for $169. I got one last December and was very pleased with the rifle. It has a quick action and a detachable magazine with a 10 round capacity. Strippers are not hard to find and they load much more easily that the dreadful Mosin strippers. SG has Brit milsurp ammo for $61 per 400rds. Best of all, it is made in the USA. It also has a longer sight radius and a better sight than the Mauser.

Link Posted: 8/4/2006 10:45:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Southernman077:
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Enfield. You can get a Savage No4 Mk1 from SOG for $169. I got one last December and was very pleased with the rifle. It has a quick action and a detachable magazine with a 10 round capacity. Strippers are not hard to find and they load much more easily that the dreadful Mosin strippers. SG has Brit milsurp ammo for $61 per 400rds. Best of all, it is made in the USA. It also has a longer sight radius and a better sight than the Mauser.



Enfields are great, but not as accurate as K31's...period.

The only .303 surplus ammo available (that I can find) is crap. Click...boom. I've got 800 rounds of the shit ammo from samco, and it sucks.
If you know where some good stuff is (SG has CRAP) please let me (us) know!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2006 5:00:16 AM EDT
Oh there's good .303 out there.



Of course, its a LOT more expensive than milsurp.....
Link Posted: 8/5/2006 5:07:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By charliedontsurf:
Swedish Mauser,You might be able to find one under $200. Probably more like under $300. With the right loads the 6.5 Swede is very accurate...


+1 they're extremely accurate, at logn range too, and you can get i beleive it's the M38 carbine for it and it's the same size as a k98, very handy and more accurate. they give pre-wartime mausers a run for the money in quality as well.
Link Posted: 8/5/2006 5:16:05 AM EDT
If you are just looking for a durable truck gun, buy a Mosin M1938: dirt cheap, indestructible, no silly bayonet, compact. Additionally, the ammo is almost free, so you can shoot it for a lifetime for $200. Mine has become my favorite bolt gun.
Link Posted: 8/5/2006 11:34:01 AM EDT
K31 HANDS DOWN.

The two I have are excellent. The wood was/is beat to heck, and the bluing faded to varying degrees, but the bores are PRISTINE. They look like they were cut yesterday. The bolts are clean and shiny, and the triggers are beautiful. Swiss craftsmanship really shows in the quality of these rifles.


Get one or two while you can.
Link Posted: 8/6/2006 4:47:16 AM EDT
In the spirit of this question I went and shot three C&R rifles yesterday (actually, I already had the range trip planned). Specifically, I shot:

Yugo Mauser v.24 (8mm Mauser) w/ Mojo T38 sight
K31 Swiss (7.5 x 55) w/ Mojo sight
M1 Garand (30-06)

IMPESSIONS:

Mauser: Nice rifle. Handles well. The Mojo sight is a huge improvement over stock Mauser sights. Accuracy was acceptable for what it is — a battle rifle. I was getting 3-5 inch groups at 100 yards, shooting from the bench, with the Mojo rear/original front sight. Recoil is managable — a little stout but not bad. Overall, a good solid rifle that would be perfectly suited for your described trunk/truck role. Cost: $140 shipped + $60 for the Mojo sight (you DO want to get this sight for one of these guns). Ammo cost: about 50 cents per round for Wolf non-corrosive. (MUCH cheaper corrossive ammo is available but I don't like cleaning guns enough to use it.)

K31: FUN! FUN! FUN! That straight pull bolt is a hoot to use. Rounds kick out of there like they're coming from a semi-auto. Shot to shot time/movement is very smooth and fluid. Just a smooth, fast rifle to use. This is the first time I'd use the Mojo on this rifle. I like it a LOT over the factory sight. I had been messing around with the St. Marie scope mount and a cheap scope. The scope is a more accurate set up but I think I like the Mojo better. It keeps the traditional lines of the rifle while improving accuracy. And accuracy is OUTSTANDING with this gun. I kept surprising myself with adjacent hits on target that were touching. For my shooting ability that's pretty damn good at 100 yards. Recoil is less than the Mauser and not objectional at all. The K31 is just one sweet rifle. Another great rifle for your intended role. Cost: $175 shipped (for a walnut stocked gun + $60 for Mojo sight. The beech K31s are about $140 shipped). Ammo cost: 35 cents per round for surplus (non-corrossive) Swiss ammo that is nearly match quality.

M1 Garand: OK, this one is in a class all it's own. THe Garand is one of the finest battle rifles ever invented. It's also beyound your stated price range. In short, it's fun to shoot, quite accurate and functions flawlessly. Everyone should own one but it's unlikely they're going to carry it around in their trunk. Cost: $575 (current price for a 'service grade' rifle from CMP, shipped). Ammo cost: 21 cents per round (surplus Greek non-corrossive).

Link Posted: 8/6/2006 6:02:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dcs12345:
Bought a k31 thursday. Seems to be a good shooter with a good barrel and chamber. The stock is already dinged up a little so I'm not going to feel bad when it gets more. My rifle was made in 1938 and has the name of the person that it was issued to. I see that as one of the unique features of these rifles as well as the slick action. Thanks for the info


If you have the funds you may consider a No4 Enfield, they have a very smooth, slick, and quick action. If you get one, get one with the micrometer rear sight, very accurate.
Link Posted: 8/15/2006 9:04:14 PM EDT
i recoil at the thought of a K31 or M96 being used as a 'trunk gun'
sell em to me and throw an SKS or M44 Mosin back there! - or better yet, buy my 30/30
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 4:14:02 AM EDT
Get the K31, and get it now. Absolutely the best rifle for under $200, but its going to pass that mark soon. As far as being a trunk gun, absolutely! If you havnt noticed, these things have been beat to hell with chewed up stocks and all, yet they shoot great.
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 4:28:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2006 4:28:52 AM EDT by SPTiger]
I don't mean to hijack, but what is that ring for on the back of the K31? Am I thinking of the correct rifle? Is that what you pull to work the action?

Anyway, if it's the rifle I'm thinking of there's a picture of a guy shooting one at Camp Perry in the latest issue of Shotgun News.
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 5:03:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SPTiger:
I don't mean to hijack, but what is that ring for on the back of the K31? Am I thinking of the correct rifle? Is that what you pull to work the action?

Anyway, if it's the rifle I'm thinking of there's a picture of a guy shooting one at Camp Perry in the latest issue of Shotgun News.


It's the safety . . . sort of.

You can grab that ring and pull the firing pin back. At a certain point you can turn it 90 degrees and block the operation of the firing pin. You can also decock by grabbing that ring, releasing the trigger and manually returning the firing pin to rest.
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 6:45:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:

Originally Posted By SPTiger:
I don't mean to hijack, but what is that ring for on the back of the K31? Am I thinking of the correct rifle? Is that what you pull to work the action?

Anyway, if it's the rifle I'm thinking of there's a picture of a guy shooting one at Camp Perry in the latest issue of Shotgun News.


It's the safety . . . sort of.

You can grab that ring and pull the firing pin back. At a certain point you can turn it 90 degrees and block the operation of the firing pin. You can also decock by grabbing that ring, releasing the trigger and manually returning the firing pin to rest.


Thanks for the explanation. It looks like I may need to add one to my collection.
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 7:17:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2006 7:21:45 AM EDT by Karl_Withakay]

Originally Posted By Southernman077:
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Enfield. You can get a Savage No4 Mk1 from SOG for $169. I got one last December and was very pleased with the rifle. It has a quick action and a detachable magazine with a 10 round capacity. Strippers are not hard to find and they load much more easily that the dreadful Mosin strippers. SG has Brit milsurp ammo for $61 per 400rds. Best of all, it is made in the USA. It also has a longer sight radius and a better sight than the Mauser.



The "hand-picked" Savage Enfield I got from SOG was not in anywhere near as nice condition as the like-new Yugo M24/47 I got from Classic Arms (the Savage No4Mk1* was what I would call "a little rough", with surface corrosion on the barrel under the handguard and some pitting in the barrel- I have no idea about its accuracy as the surplus WWII ammo is crap). Also, the surplus .303 ammo does really suck: Click, ...wait for it... BOOM, search target in vain for bullet hole, repeat until bored, switch to the Mauser.

The K31's are ultra nice, but the ammo is a little pricey. However, from a rifle cost to quality and accuracy perspective, you can't beat them.

The Yugo Mausers are excellent deals, but the affordable ammo is corrosive, if that bothers you. Corrosive ammo isn't that big a deal, remember once upon a time all ammo was corrosive, and shooters didn't whine about their rifles disolving before their eyes. Just find a good cleaning solvent like Ballistol and do a good cleaning job when you get home.

The Ishapore Enfield Rifle 2A's from AIM are quite nice. The finish sucks: a crappy paint job that varies from flaking off to requiring a bead blast to remove. But mine is extremely accurate and it loves the South African 7.62X51 surplus (NON-CORROSIVE).
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 3:12:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2006 3:14:10 PM EDT by charliedontsurf]
I can't believe that there are only 2 of us in this thread that support the 6.5 Swede. I personally prefer the M96 w/a full length barrel,though the steel in the receiver can be on the soft side of the rockwell scale, the M96 is extremely accurate for a combat rifle. As mentioned before, it will outperform any of the other Mausers balistically, in stock form, hands down. For the doubters out there, try some of the Black Onyx match loads offered by Norma. The results can be simply astounding, if you have purchased a rifle barrel not too worn and if you as a shooter do your part....
Link Posted: 8/16/2006 4:48:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By charliedontsurf:
I can't believe that there are only 2 of us in this thread that support the 6.5 Swede. I personally prefer the M96 w/a full length barrel,though the steel in the receiver can be on the soft side of the rockwell scale, the M96 is extremely accurate for a combat rifle. As mentioned before, it will outperform any of the other Mausers balistically, in stock form, hands down. For the doubters out there, try some of the Black Onyx match loads offered by Norma. The results can be simply astounding, if you have purchased a rifle barrel not too worn and if you as a shooter do your part....


You aren't the only Swede lover here. I have a Swede M38 that is very accurate, but he did ask about a rifle under $200.00 and I doubt you could find a Swede for less than that today.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 3:20:34 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By DM1975:
My Yugo SKS was a pretty good buy under $200.00 I think...


+1
You can get one unfired in new condition for less than $200 I think.
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