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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/5/2002 5:54:58 PM EST
I've been checking out some 1911 .45 pistols by Kimber and Springfield armory mostly. I plan on spending around $800 for a new .45, which company would give me more gun for the money?
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 5:58:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/5/2002 5:59:20 PM EST by Grock]
GLOCK 21

Link Posted: 7/5/2002 6:04:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 5:06:33 PM EST by Corey]
I've become more and more convinced that milspec is the way to go -- on AR15's and 1911's.

Go with a SA 1911 of whatever fit and finish you choose, but make sure that it's one of the newer models that has the milspec cut to the fronstrap and dustcover. They use to make them squared off and thick for gunsmithing purposes, but that meant they felt boxy and didn't fit as well in 1911 holsters.

Even if a $750 Kimber is better than a $750 SA, think long term and all of the additional parts in the Kimber Series II. But if you can get a Series I Kimber, go for it.

Some will say that the Series II parts don't effect Kimber's functioning or the trigger pull. Cool by me. I just plain old don't want them there.

So, call me a retro grouch. I own two Colt AR15's and I'm beginning to think that I should've gone BM....

EDITED to add that you WILL need to replace the SA mainspring assembly to get rid of the PC "safety lock feature," but that should be a drop in part and run you $50 or so. You cannot get rid of a Kimber Series II -- unless you sell it and buy a SA or a new $1K Colt Series 70 WWII repro.

EDITED to add that I meant milspec in design, and not the the exclusion of great additions like beavertail grip safety, aftermarket fire control parts, better sights, etc. I just don't want the passive firing safeties of the Colt S80 or Kimber S2. It's pretty easy to get around the dumb PC mainspring lockout on the SA.

The reference to AR15's is due, again, to my preference for milspec basic design like fire control pins and push pins.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 6:06:13 PM EST
I've got about 24,000 rounds through my Kimber Pro Carry, and I just had my first failure: the screw that holds in the magazine release spring broke. Four dollars and ten minutes later I was back in battery. I'm really happy with it.

Knowing what I know now though, I'd buy a full-size model. The one inch I saved by getting the Pro Carry wouldn't make any difference at all for CCW with the quality holster I've got.

A buddy of mine has a Springfield Loaded package and he's really happy with it. Basically, my message to you is that for $800, you can't go wrong at the house of Kimber OR Springfield.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 6:11:40 PM EST
SA Mil-Spec Operator. About $750, and an excellent gun.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 6:19:39 PM EST
I'd recommend Kimber. The only Springfield 1911 I've ever owned left much to be desired. No complaints with my Kimbers. They are great guns, IMO.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 6:30:57 PM EST
Actually, the Mil-Spec can be had for around $500. The Stainless Loaded model should run you around $750.
I had 1 of each, along with a Kimber Pro Carry, and I got rid of the SS Loaded and Pro Carry to help finance my Wilson CQB.
You Can't go wrong with either, but I will never buy either one again after having a Wilson.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:07:08 PM EST
Ever think of making your own Custom 1911 from a frame and your own choice of parts? You can just assemble it in the configuration of your choice, and you wouldnt have to fork all the money over at once and you get exactly what your looking for.

If the idea interest you, there is a 1911 gunsmith website you might like where a guy makes his own 1911 receiver from one offered at www.tanneryshop.com. Go check it out at www.roderuscustom.tzo.com and there forum at www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:28:38 PM EST
USP45-Its the only way to fly! Best pistol ever!
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 8:29:09 PM EST
If it was me and I wanted a nice 1911, I would go with a full size Kimber stainless. These seem to be good solid pistols and I have seen nothing but good stuff said about them.

If you want a project pistol, then by a plain jane Springfield and have it customized to your tastes and requirements. That way you can have whatever features YOU desire.

But I would just go buy a Sig Sauer P-220 and never look back again. If you get one, you won't regret it for a minute. I wouldn't trade a Sig for any pistol made. But if it's a 1911 you want, that's your thing. Not everyone likes the same stuff, otherwise there wouldn't be a zillion different pistols with just as many variations within! Good luck with your hunt.
Link Posted: 7/5/2002 9:41:16 PM EST
You might want to buy a no frills gun and start building it up I just did a trigger job on mine without any previous gunsmithing experience, the cool thing about the 1911 is they are "user friendly" you can strip them all the way down without any tool and can just use the pieces of the gun. I really like the 1911 platform and plus you can build it too your needs.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:13:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 3:14:28 AM EST by marvl]
It always tickles me when someone posts, for example, "I want to spend around $800 for something like a Kimber or Springfield Armory" and the responses run like:

(1) Naw, you want to spend $2,000 of a custom 1911.

(2) Top of the line Kimber with custom this, etc.

(3) Take out a 2nd mortgage and buy a Wilson or Ed Brown.

(4) Glock. Glock??? Glock???

How about just answering the guy's question?

My answer: The SA Mil-Spec Operator for about $750:

Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:36:39 AM EST
ParaOrdnance P14 or LDA14
Go Hi Cap!
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:27:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 5:30:38 AM EST by schapman43]
I would either go with the Springfield Loaded Operator for $719 or the Springfield Mil-Spec Operator for $589. I have the standard Mil-Spec and love it. I liked it so much its now my carry gun. Not a hitch in over 1000 rounds. I have the Mil-Spec Operator on layaway right now. I will use that for carry when I get it. I dont mind the extra weight. Anyway, the operators are by far the nicest 1911. You gotta love the light rail.


The Loaded


The Mil-Spec



I personally prefer the Mil-Specs because you get to pick and choose your upgrades. I also plan on doing allot of the work myself.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:32:59 AM EST


Springfield "Loaded" Stainless (with Wilson Combat magazines).
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:45:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 5:45:52 AM EST by leadfoot]
I like my HK USP Compact 45 with the Stainless Steel Slide. It shots great and looks good.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:10:34 AM EST
Hey M4A1-SOPMOD , what ever you purchase , check out Fin,Feather & Fur in Ashland for a SMOKING DEAL ! I have a friend in Medina who says this place has great prices. He goes by BEAR 4 on this site, find him and drop him a line. Now , we are all Sig shooters. Only 2 Glocks in the bunch because they are issue weapons. Oh yea , almost forgot the H&K USP 45 and a custom II Kimber owned by one guy who is kind of a rebel. No trouble with ANY of the Sigs. They shoot rounds that turn the Kimber AND THE H&K INTO JAMOMATICS ! Much to the chagrin of the H&K guy.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:52:31 AM EST



How about a Para-Ordanance Companion LDA 7+1 shot.

Length 7.13" Height 5" Weight 32 oz , all stainless, Barrel 3.5" 4.5" magazine

Link Posted: 7/6/2002 7:00:48 AM EST
Not a 1911, but how about a Heckler & Koch USP 45 Tactical for a little more ($894)?



Link Posted: 7/6/2002 8:00:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:


Springfield "Loaded" Stainless (with Wilson Combat magazines).



If I had a 1911, it'd likely look a lot like this one.
Nice gun.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 8:22:34 AM EST
I'd have to recommend a Kimber here as well. The Kimber we have works flawlessy and is extremely accurate.

We have a Springfield that Matt is about ready to throw out the door. The springfield is a new model with the lock on the back. The trigger is VERY heavy in comparison to the Kimber, it shoots way off point of aim (4"-6" low) at a range of 21 feet with the fixed sights and shoots patterns rather than groups. We switch back to Kimber, and viola nice tight groups at point of aim. I'm pretty sure he would not buy another one. He bought that to be his carry piece, but he almost always carries my Kimber or his Glock.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 9:20:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By ARLady:
I'd have to recommend a Kimber here as well. The Kimber we have works flawlessy and is extremely accurate.

We have a Springfield that Matt is about ready to throw out the door. The springfield is a new model with the lock on the back. The trigger is VERY heavy in comparison to the Kimber, it shoots way off point of aim (4"-6" low) at a range of 21 feet with the fixed sights and shoots patterns rather than groups. We switch back to Kimber, and viola nice tight groups at point of aim. I'm pretty sure he would not buy another one. He bought that to be his carry piece, but he almost always carries my Kimber or his Glock.



Sounds like you got a bad one there, ARlady. I have a new loaded operator with the same stupid lock on the back. However, it shoots very well: from 11 yards all 7 shots well within an 8" Shot-N-C target, and the spread is probably me, not the gun.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 10:00:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 10:03:18 AM EST by Bandito]
Depends on what ya plan to do with the pistol. That will pretty much dictate which model would be best for ya. I highly recommend the newer Springfield Armory 1911's (Colt dimension front strap and dust cover). Ya can easily pick up a loaded with an $800 budget plus get enough ammo to break it in with to boot.


Micro Compact and customized SA Mil-Spec

I've always had good luck with Springfield Armory products

Rick
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 10:50:38 AM EST
Pretty unargueable fact that the most accurate 45 under a grand is a H&K. Since someone once said, "Only accurate guns are interesting", that settled it for me. Clearly most guns in that price range will be accurate & dependable but the H&K is clearly the Rolls Royce among Cadillacs.

I carry with a H&K USP Compact S/S.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 11:00:31 AM EST
got colts, springfields, paraordnances including an LDA - get a glock 30 and spend rge 300 saved on ammo and practice with it
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 11:11:25 AM EST
I have a Kimber Custom Classic and it is a fantastic gun. In about 7000rnds, I had my first problem the other day, a stovepipe using PMC 230gr ball. If I had it to do over, I'd go stainless, only because the finish rusts pretty easy on mine. But all in all, I think Kimber is the way to go.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 12:15:43 PM EST
If a CCW- Springfield Compact or Micro $590-700. If a combat-Springfield's New coated w/ns $719.
I have owned 6 S/A 1911's, 1, I shot the barrel out at 13,000 over 2 years. Never had any problems so to say. If you get a new one feed if full house fmj for the first 200 rds to get it broke in, buy wilson mags and you will not regret buying it.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 12:23:06 PM EST
Glock, G21, 30 or 36. With night sights (trijicon). Quite simply, they work and fewer parts means there are less to break or loose when disassembling.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 12:29:35 PM EST
I don't like glocks, they don't fit my hands. There seems to be a problem with glocks blowing up when they are bigger than 9mm. Rare problem, but I like fingers. The Sig 220 is great as are some 1911's. My personal favorite is the HK USP. I have the tactical model and it is outstanding. My suggestion would be to go to a range and rent a Sig 220, an HK USP and a 1911 and see which you prefer.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 12:43:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By sk8brdnick:
I don't like glocks, they don't fit my hands. There seems to be a problem with glocks blowing up when they are bigger than 9mm. Rare problem, but I like fingers. The Sig 220 is great as are some 1911's. My personal favorite is the HK USP. I have the tactical model and it is outstanding. My suggestion would be to go to a range and rent a Sig 220, an HK USP and a 1911 and see which you prefer.



Glock kaboom issues are going to effect any pistol with a hexagonal rifled barrel as the problem isn't the gun. It's the fact that people put lead reloads in them that causes an increase in pressure that is unsafe in a hexagonal profile barrel. Idiots do it even though Glock specifically warns not to do so. I've never seen a Glock kaboom that hadn't been fed enough lead reloads to stress the barrel/frame or shooting a lead reload at the time of the kaboom. If you know of one that hasn't please feel free to let me know about it.

Similarly, 1911's have the notorious reputation of being extremely finicky with feeding some ammo types, namely defensive ammo like jacketed hollow points. With the advent of "factory custom" guns from the likes of Kimber, Springfield, Wilson, and Baer this is going reputation is going away because attention has been paid to that problem.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:10:03 PM EST
I added the following edit to my previous post (third from top). I wasn't advocating for a WWII milspec gun (though that would do fine), but basic design. I think that a "Loaded" SA goes for around $700 or so. That's what I'd start with if I got another 1911. Then as funds allowed, I'd add tool steel fire control parts, and other upgrades.

Here's the edit that I added:


EDITED to add that I meant milspec in design, and not the the exclusion of great additions like beavertail grip safety, aftermarket fire control parts, better sights, etc. I just don't want the passive firing safeties of the Colt S80 or Kimber S2. It's pretty easy to get around the dumb PC mainspring lockout on the SA.

The reference to AR15's is due, again, to my preference for milspec basic design like fire control pins and push pins.

Link Posted: 7/7/2002 9:16:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARLady:
We have a Springfield that Matt is about ready to throw out the door



Don't give up on it!!! I'm betting the probably is entirely in the barrel. SA is the only company, AFAIK, that still uses a two-piece barrel. Replace the barrel & have it properly fitted by a competent gunsmith & it'll shoot like a Gold Cup, IMO.

Or at least mine did. >gg<
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 3:48:08 PM EST
Of the two, Kimber.

Otherwise, CZ-97.... Never believe you have to pay a lot to get a great gun.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 7:34:40 PM EST
I thought about it for a while and I decided on two .45 pistols instead of one. For my 1911 A1 .45, I have decided to go w/ a Springfield Mil Spec Operator...I don't know if I want the standard or loaded though. I really like the OD green .45 that SA has in their new brochure.
As far as the second pistol goes, I'm going to go w/ a polymer frame. Either a HK USP Tactical or a Kimber polymer frame. Thanks for all the input guys.
Link Posted: 7/12/2002 7:57:00 PM EST
Since you are also going to go polymer, I would strongly suggest the HK Tactical (and while you're at it add the utl light). A lot of ppl who bought MK23's have switched the the smaller and much cheaper Tactical. Why? Because dollar for dollar the USP Tactical is one of the best deals in firearms, period. I am also a 1911 fan but any shortcomings that the 1911 could have had/did have with reliability have been eradicated with the USP. If one states that Glocks are more common with law enforcement, of course they are. Glock practically gives them away in law enforcement contracts. HK designed the USP for the American market and the mag ban really killed the potential the 9mm's and .40's had for sales (they basically came out right before the ban). In the .45 USP, however, you are only missing two rounds, and you still have 2-3 more than the standard 1911, or at least the same as a postban widebody 1911. Plus you have the ability to pull the trigger again on a bum primer (it can and does happen)with the USP, something that is impossible in the 1911 world. If you go with the HK you won't be disapointed.
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