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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/12/2005 4:40:41 PM EDT


Hey guys.
I modified another project I am working on (Mesa Tactical FCAM for the Benelli M4) to be something simpler for those without the need of a 4 point rail system. Plus, the rail uses the factory handguard.

This item simply replaces the top factory rail on the Benelli M4. As you can see from the pictures, it offers a shell holder also. The extended rail is perfect for the EOTech, I actually cut it so it would be an ideal fit.


You'll notice that the cuts on the bottom are pretty rough due to my limited tooling on hand. I did most of the work with a file.

The rail is extremely sturdy and has no flex that I can see.



For more pictures, check out this link:
www.citlink.net/~boehm/2005-09-11/

I shot it yesterday with the rail system installed. I have the 12mw visible green laser cowitnessed with the EOTech 552. The rail held a zero perfectly.

I drilled holes into the factory handguard so I could ziptie the tapeswitch to the forearm. Very solid, and the wires routed out of the way very nicely on the Sidearmor forward rail mount.

Let me know what you think.

-Steve
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:06:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 5:08:14 PM EDT by junker46]
I see you have an accessory from Impact.

Where did you get the bolt handle and the 'whatever-you-call-it' release parts?

ETA: I just noticed the 'M4' on the side. Whats the difference from the LE version?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:31:46 PM EDT
junker46,
I bought my parts from GG&G, the oversized charging handle and the oversized bolt release. They can be had from other sources for a little less.

I have the 11703 model. It comes with the fixed pistol grip stock rather then the fake telescopic stock on the limited edition model. I believe those are 11701's.

The new ones out are the 11707's, those have the milled grooves on the recoil tube assembly to accept the telescopic stock.

There is a big bitch fest going on over the 11703 and 11707 since they have 4 gas ports rather then 2. The claim is the 11703 and 11707 can only handle low yield tactical rounds. In the 3000 - 5000 rounds I've put through mine, I've yet to have any bolt carrier deformation like they've claimed. I don't think I've ever shot a single low recoil round through it!

Good luck finding anything but the 11701's right now, seems the new ones are going to Iraq.
-Steve
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:03:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 6:04:51 PM EDT by junker46]
Thanks, Steve.

I have the 'M4LE'version , but don't know model # is. There was a pile of them on the table(at a fun show) and I just grabbed a box ; just bought it on impluse. I even have the collasping stock but no intention of putting it on. I don't know much about these things, only that its a milspec weapon.

How can you tell how many gas ports there are, and why is it important.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:29:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stevenb:
There is a big bitch fest going on over the 11703 and 11707 since they have 4 gas ports rather then 2. The claim is the 11703 and 11707 can only handle low yield tactical rounds. In the 3000 - 5000 rounds I've put through mine, I've yet to have any bolt carrier deformation like they've claimed.



I haven't been keeping up on the M1014/M4 info lately. Are you saying that the newer 4-port versions are supposedly BAD NEWS compared to the older 2-port versions? I have one of the Limited Edition M1014 (11701) shotguns.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:05:07 PM EDT
M4Madness,
That is the claim. However, I believe it is a case of buyers remorse. Kind of like the heavy barrel claims of some reguarding the limited edition model. I figure if it does break with the heavy loads I dump through mine, Benelli will get to replace it. That would be fine, my barrel is all scratched up and scowered from 5000 rounds being fed through it.
Basically, the 4 port design is ment only for tac loads. Yet, it is chambered in 3".

The 11703 and the 11707 have the 4 port barrels. They have removeable chokes also.

junker46, does yours have the flag on the side? It sounds like you got the Law Enforcement model rather then the Limited Edition. Everyone and their mother wants the Law Enforcement model. How much did you pay?

-Steve
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:30:55 PM EDT
Steven,

That looks really nice! How has the 4-point rail progressed? Any photos?

BTW, I've wondered about the rotating feature on that GG&TG bolt handle. Seems as if it would make it difficult to rack w/o your hand inadvertantly sliding off. Can it be locked so that it doesn't move at all?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:27:11 PM EDT
Master_Blaster,
Thanks for the words about the M4. Many think the laser is too much, however they change their minds when going on a debris blasting rampage with no attempt to aim.
Here is the latest rendition of the 4 point rail system. Mesa Tactical has began calling it the FCAM III (Floating Combat Accessory Mount.)


In fact part of the rail I put together is from a early rendition of the FCAM system when we were planning on extending it further out over the barrel.
Given the weight of the M4 to begin with, I'm weighing the option of moving the accessories mounted further to the rear of the weapon.
You'll notice on the FCAM III top image, it has an extended handguard assembly kind of like a SPAS. This is to move the users hand away from the placement of the rails. My goal is to provide a forearm grip with the same handling and ergonomics as the factory handguards which are superb IMO. I hate rail systems that force you to sacrifice ergonomics for utility.

The shell holder is just icing on the cake. Toss your tacstar -- I did! There is no way this can bind up the action like the Tacstar model was famous for. If Mesa makes a shell carrier for your Remington or Mossie, GET IT. I didn't like how hard it was to put the shells into the carrier, so I modified the retention tube with an exacto knife until I got the resistance where I wanted it.

As for the GG&G oversized charging handle, I like the fact that it rotates. Its knurled, so the handle doesn't slip in your knuckle joint like the factory handle. I've been experimenting with a couple different charging methods with it. One I really like is to use my left hand from under the weapon and sweep back against it. My only concern with the handles weight, and if it is changing the speed of the action any. I don't have a fine scale to measure the weight differences. I haven't noticed anything though. I really doubt you could modify the charging handle so it doesn't rotate. Even the factory one does, it just isn't as obvious until it is time for disassembly.

The oversized bolt release is one of those things that simply should of came like that from the factory. I hated that little tiny factory bastard. I could never find it.
I feel the button should of been located on the opposite side of the weapon though too. But I could see some issues arise there such as bumping it.

-Steve
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 10:27:51 AM EDT
Thanks. I like that enlarged HG in the 1st diagram.

Re the rotating charginging handle: I personally use the L-hand rack method when shooting strong side, thus my concern about the knob's rotation.

I'm having my fun shop guy look into the 2 - vs. 4-port bbl. situation w/ Benelli, as I've seen the photos of the battered carrier over @ the Benelli forums. He told me they'd take a few days to get back to him. I'll post when I get the word.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:36:50 PM EDT
Fascinating. Is this avaliable for purchase sometime? The mods you have are excellent.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:00:44 PM EDT
Master_Blaster,
Can you explain the L-hand chambering method? I can envision a couple different ways of doing it. If I know exactly what you mean, I can give it a try.
I'd be interested to find out what your dealer says about the port issue. If the 4 port barrels only eat tac loads, Benelli owes me a new barrel. Remember when I busted a gas piston in mine 50 rounds out of the box?
I wonder if it is all related? I really hope not.
I've seen the pictures of deformed bolt carriers as well. I've kept an eye on mine and haven't noticed much. You can see where the finish is worn on the sides of the rail from impingment deformation. I have an urge to feed mine a diet of about 300 rounds of slugs and high base buckshot to see if I can break it.

ViperEH, hopefully this product will be released. Posting this gauges what kind of response is out there for such products. The biggest problem the M4 has is the limited numbers in civilian hands. I have some additional modifications to add to the prototype I have. Not to mention it is sporting a tactical krylon finish.

-Steve
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 12:18:15 PM EDT
Rack it like you would an AK: rotate SG inward w/ strong hand so the charging handle points upward & is more accessible to the L-hand, then rack it w/ the palm edge of L-hand. Uses gross motor skills, so it's simple & fast, yet I can't help wondering if a rotating knob would cause the hand to slip when charging the bolt.

Now, tube loading is usually done w/ the trigger hand while the forearm hand grasps the SG; you can just as easily grab the charging handle w/ the palm edge of said trigger hand, but even so, the rotating knob makes me think it'd still slip.

BTW - I could've sworn the charging handle was fixed/non-rotating on the last M1014 I handled.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:58:09 PM EDT
Master_Blaster,
We use completely different methods of loading. I prefer to keep my strong hand (right) on the pistol grip, and load with my left. That way I instantly can go back to firing without reaquiring a firing grip.
I raise the weapon and let the weight hang straight down rather then keep the muzzle outwards allowing the weight to act as leverage against me. I rotate the weapon by my right hand wrist to offer up the loading port easier for the left hand to feed shells in from either a shell carrier or from a pocket or dump bag. This allows me to use my support hand to access shells on the buttstock very easily as well.
From beneath the weapon with my support hand, I can let the bolt fly forward with the bolt release, or rack the bolt with a similar movement.
I wish Benelli had put the bolt release on the opposite side, or made it amedex. (even better.)
Loading shells into a shotgun is a fine motorskill in itself to be honest. The shell release and the safety could of been designed better IMO.

I thought you had an M4? The factory charging handle does rotate. That's actually how you take it out. It rotates in place until it passes by a detent which allows you to pull the charging handle from the bolt carrier.
Needless to say, I just tried your method, and slipping isn't an issue. The knurled knob gives you a solid grip on it even when doing it fast. That's the whole point of upgrading to the oversized charging handle. You can reach out and grab it faster without risking jamming your fingers in it, or missing it entirely.
-Steve
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 1:35:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 1:41:24 AM EDT by junker46]

Originally Posted By stevenb:

junker46, does yours have the flag on the side? It sounds like you got the Law Enforcement model rather then the Limited Edition. Everyone and their mother wants the Law Enforcement model. How much did you pay?

-Steve



Mine has the "M4 L.E." marking on the side; no flag.

Not knowing much about the differences, I just pulled one out of a pile from a table. A SHTF weapon. After I have pulled it out the guy behind the table handed me a small box (the collaspable stock) and said 'here, this goes with it.' I believe I paid $1299 last year.

ETA: the manual more-or- less states that it'll handle any 12 ga round put thru it.

What the heck is the difference between al thes loads (i.e. tactical, etc)?
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 12:17:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stevenb:
Master_Blaster,
We use completely different methods of loading. I prefer to keep my strong hand (right) on the pistol grip, and load with my left. That way I instantly can go back to firing without reaquiring a firing grip.



We use the same method. The 2nd paragragh was in reference to the other method.


I thought you had an M4?


"On paper", I already own two (11707), but that damned little boat from Italy is taking the scenic route on its way to the states. Go figure.


...I just tried your method, and slipping isn't an issue. The knurled knob gives you a solid grip on it even when doing it fast. That's the whole point of upgrading to the oversized charging handle. You can reach out and grab it faster without risking jamming your fingers in it, or missing it entirely.
-Steve



Good. Glad to hear it.

Now, I'm still trying to figure out how to grow a 3rd hand to install the bolt release. Maybe I can borrow the wife's...
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 1:47:33 PM EDT
The bolt release isn't too bad so long as you have the proper punches. You have to install the retaining pin just past the internal rail that the bolt carrier rides within, but not far enough that it is sticking out the bottom of the receiver.
I took the stock off of the receiver along with the magazine extension to get the receiver as light as possible. I then laid it across my lap, stuck my fingers up into the receiver where the shell elevator normally sits (removed) and compressed the bolt release in place. I then tapped the pin in with a small brass hammer, then drove it home with a punch. I can't recall exactly what size it is, but I think it is like 3/32 or something like that. I ended up just buying a whole set when those parts came in to do the job right. The hole at the bottom for the pin is tapered smaller so the pin isn't ment to exit from the bottom. It's open simply allow you to drive the pin out from the bottom with a smaller punch.
The GG&G unit gives you a replacement pin. I can't recall if they are rollpins or not though.

Also, pay attention to where the spring is located under the bolt release in the factory configuration. Once it is taken apart, you'll have no reference as to where it goes except for where the finish is worn. There are a couple ways it can go back together, one one way is correct though.
Put some locktite on the pad retention screw also.
Expect some finish wear under the oversized button on the receiver. Expecially if you're hard on the weapon and slap it hard. It bottoms out on the receiver. This could have been better designed IMO very easily by tapering the back face of the oversized button, I might modify mine right before it is ment to get refinished at Robar.

Did you order those 11707's from Impact? Or Calvery arms? Didn't you order them about a year ago? I've heard about their problems with "back order" for a long time now. I'm wondering if they're waiting for X amount of buyers before committing to the purchase to bring their overall purchase price down. They may want to get a 100 orders before buying and not have the capital on hand to buy them themselves...

junker46, sounds like you got a great deal. Better then I did, and mine is only a 11703. However, if I ever opt to go with the telescopic Benelli stock, I'd prefer to have a gunsmith mill the grooves since you can setup some different LOP (Length of Pull) options that way.

Tactical loads are a fancy way of saying "Sissy loads." They're reduced recoil rounds given to people who cannot properly shoot full yield rounds. They're probably not as weak as say a handicap load though. They are generally in slug or buckshot form rather then birdshot, and are usually fairly expensive.
Their value is debatable since their use could reduce overpenetration issues and increase follow-up shots. They benefit smaller shooters and/or women shooters who cannot handle the recoil.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 7:42:03 PM EDT
I placed my order exactly 1 year ago. In fact, the dealer has has 4 ordered since that time, w/ none delivered thus far. I have no idea what distributor he goes through, but he's an "authorized" Benelli dealer, so I was hoping that would've been of benefit. The std. line has been that military procurement is leaving very little, if any, available. I was hoping to have them in hand before Fall. Oh well - maybe by Christmas?

The recent 2- vs. 4-port bbl. issue has me concerned enough that, if it's an issue - which I think it might be - I'd like to see if I can get the 2-port bbl.'s put on them before I ever take delivery. I'll be checking back w/ the FFL sometime this week to see if he's received a reply from customer service.

Thanks about the note on the bolt release. My dremmel's ready.
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