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Posted: 12/12/2016 8:27:55 PM EST
Why don't people do this?
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 8:30:00 PM EST
Because the atf won't approve your ffl if you try to.
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 8:32:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By pbellp2012:
Why don't people do this?
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Tax evasion?
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 8:34:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By timpryor:
Because the atf won't approve your ffl if you try to.
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It has been tried. This happens every time.
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 8:41:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By pbellp2012:
Why don't people do this?
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It doesn't save them any money.
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 8:42:36 PM EST
I don't think you can just get an FFL for personal use. You have to actually do transfers.

Why don't you just buy a MG like you would a suppressor and wait the 7-8 months?
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 8:43:01 PM EST
you need to show a profit
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 9:35:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By brich2929:
you need to show a profit
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Not true, but you do need to be engaged in the business.

OP, the ATF will shut your shit down and you may face charges for doing that. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of getting into bed with the ATF and then not calling them any more.
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 11:35:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2016 11:36:32 PM EST by RenegadeX]
Originally Posted By pbellp2012:
Why don't people do this?
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Same reason you cannot eat 1 potato chip.

Even if you did do this, and you got your MG, you would not stop and call it done. You would not resist the urge to get more into the business, get discounts, help out your friends with xfers, buy more MGs, etc.
Link Posted: 12/12/2016 11:38:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gameboy:
I don't think you can just get an FFL for personal use. You have to actually do transfers.

Why don't you just buy a MG like you would a suppressor and wait the 7-8 months?
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Post samples would be the reason for most people.  Cheap MGs you can run like a rented mule and not worry if you break them.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:50:04 AM EST
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Originally Posted By jhereg:
Post samples would be the reason for most people.  Cheap MGs you can run like a rented mule and not worry if you break them.
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Unless you're super buddy-buddy with local LE, you can't just buy cheap post-sample MGs. Need a demo letter or purchase order for each and every one, or you'd be stuck buying transferrables and pre-samples and paying the same prices as everyone else.

I guess if the local Sheriff's your older brother or cousin or something, that might work out for some folks.

The game for cheap MGs is to go into business as a manufacturer, with the extra costs of ITAR and licensure for that type of FFL, then at least you could build anything you wanted to and had the technical capability to pull off without requiring a demo letter.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:58:53 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Circuits:

Unless you're super buddy-buddy with local LE, you can't just buy cheap post-sample MGs. Need a demo letter or purchase order for each and every one, or you'd be stuck buying transferrables and pre-samples and paying the same prices as everyone else.

I guess if the local Sheriff's your older brother or cousin or something, that might work out for some folks.

The game for cheap MGs is to go into business as a manufacturer, with the extra costs of ITAR and licensure for that type of FFL, then at least you could build anything you wanted to and had the technical capability to pull off without requiring a demo letter.
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Exactly.  I know of at least one guy who had the C2 made a bunch of MGs and then decided with the extra costs he'd rather have the C3.  It sounds like you can switch and keep the post samples.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:34:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By pbellp2012:
Why don't people do this?
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There are a lot of reasons not the lease of which is that one of the first question on you FFL application is whether or not it is for personal use you. If you were to manage the moral gymnastics needed to check the "No" box; then you would need a LE Demo Letter to get a Post-86 Sample with a Type 1 FFL | Class 03 SOT. If you want to make one or convert one you would need to be a Type 7 FFL | Class 02 SOT. Beyond that when you go for your renewal the ATF will ask how many guns you purchased and how many you sold.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:24:21 PM EST
It would probably be just as easy to become a LEO.
Link Posted: 12/15/2016 7:38:25 PM EST
Just join the Arrrrmmyyyy
Link Posted: 12/15/2016 10:40:51 PM EST
People do. You just need to try to engage in the firearms business as well. It need not be your only source of income and you don't need to make crazy profits as well all know FFLs which start out and just can't or don't make it. You do need the appropriate zoning. I would incorporate if I did it for liability protection for what I sold. If I had the right zoning I would look at going for a type 07 manufacturer with an 02 SOT. I know about ITAR fees.

Getting an FFL 03 and buying 30 silencers you never transfer will get your license pulled and maybe a tax evasion charge. Although I am sure big dealers or stores have numerous silencers they use for demos or are older tech they can't sell for the price they want.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 2:39:01 PM EST
Do they still allow home based FFLs or is that gone the way of the Dodo?
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:36:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2016 8:36:55 PM EST by DogtownTom]
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Originally Posted By dnmccoy:
Do they still allow home based FFLs or is that gone the way of the Dodo?
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There are more home based FFL's than ones with a retail storefront.
ATF doesn't give a rats ass if you have a storefront, spare bedroom, kitchen table, garage or a cardboard box in the back yard......as long as you can legally operate your business under all city, city, county, HOA and zoning restrictions.
Link Posted: 12/18/2016 3:46:26 PM EST
Class 3 dealers are allowed to posses MGs for business reasons, not as a loophole to buy MGs.

Do some dealers buys post sample MGs for personal use, yes but it's a fraction of their business and sort of a perk of running a firearms business.

If you do intent to go that route just make sure you have some legit transactions if the ATF comes knocking. And probably wouldn't hurt to have a reason for why you have the MG, like you're testing something, showing to a potential buyer, etc...."they're fun to shoot" probably won't go over well. Also remember you will have yearly fees and in the end you will end up selling your MG for probably less than you paid for it as demand is low for post samples.

Other options would be to just get a FFL and buy pre may samples, the ATF seem to be less picky or so I've been told.
And of course transferable are pricey but do make good investments, Most have been doing 10% or more increase per year.
Link Posted: 12/18/2016 3:51:58 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dnmccoy:
Do they still allow home based FFLs or is that gone the way of the Dodo?
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It's up to your local laws on whether you can run a home based business. If you can get all the business licenses to operate from home, then you can get the FFL also.


I always figured if I was rich enough I'd just buy a big area, name my own town and elect myself sherif, then have a lot of department machineguns.
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