Are soft armor inserts needed with level IV ceramic plates?

Armory » Tactical Gear

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Are soft armor inserts needed with level IV ceramic plates?

Posted: 8/21/2006 11:04:49 AM EDT

Posted: 8/21/2006 11:16:01 AM EDT

[#1]

Even if they are stand alone plates I say yes, just because of the blunt force trauma you are going to take behind the plate if it is hit.

Refer to the tacked thread on the top marked armor plates for a ton of useful info.

Posted: 8/21/2006 11:23:27 AM EDT

[#2]

If the plates are NIJ rated stand alone, then NO. You don't need soft panels. The plate should not be breached by the round and the backplate deformation should meet the NIJ standard.

However, adding soft armor may add some safety and reduce some discomfort to being hit.

Posted: 8/21/2006 11:27:34 AM EDT

[#3]

YES you do - even if standalone, the BFD may meet specs, BUT you make no reference to spalling and blunt force trauma mitigation.

short answer, yes wear softarmor underneath

EGG

Posted: 8/21/2006 8:23:36 PM EDT

[#4]

Most Level IV ICW are also Level 3 stand alone.

Simon

Posted: 8/22/2006 5:50:10 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
YES you do - even if standalone, the BFD may meet specs, BUT you make no reference to spalling and blunt force trauma mitigation.
EGG

Spalling is a phenomenon related to the breakup of stuff on the front of the plate. How is soft armor behind the plate supposed to help with this

Posted: 8/22/2006 5:58:40 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
YES you do - even if standalone, the BFD may meet specs, BUT you make no reference to spalling and blunt force trauma mitigation.
EGG

Spalling is a phenomenon related to the breakup of stuff on the front of the plate. How is soft armor behind the plate supposed to help with this

Actually....Spalling can and will occur on the inside face of a hard armor plate. A specific example would be HESH rounds, which are specifically designed to produce spalling on the INTERIOR of an armored vehicle.

Having a soft armor insert keeps the spall ejected off the back side of the plate from shredding you.

Sheep

Posted: 8/22/2006 5:58:51 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
YES you do - even if standalone, the BFD may meet specs, BUT you make no reference to spalling and blunt force trauma mitigation.
EGG

Spalling is a phenomenon related to the breakup of stuff on the front of the plate. How is soft armor behind the plate supposed to help with this

It won't. Unless I'm mistaken, spalling is only an issue with steel armor plates?? Ceramics actually "catch" the bullet mostly intact. (at least that's what it looks like on the demo plates I've seen)

On steel armor plates like the ones I have there's a ballistic covering to help catch the spalling. Combine that with a Heavy duty carrier and I don't think it is a significant issue.

Back to the original question... I would say definitely go with panels underneath. Plates offer VERY limited coverage compared to soft armor. I'd guess that a pair of plates only offers 50% coverage of your torso area.

Posted: 8/22/2006 11:06:17 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Actually....Spalling can and will occur on the inside face of a hard armor plate. A specific example would be HESH rounds, which are specifically designed to produce spalling on the INTERIOR of an armored vehicle.

Having a soft armor insert keeps the spall ejected off the back side of the plate from shredding you.

Sheep

OK, granted. But then I'd have to argue that you took a hit from a round that the plate wasn't designed to stop, or the plate is defective in some way.

Posted: 8/22/2006 11:09:29 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Back to the original question... I would say definitely go with panels underneath. Plates offer VERY limited coverage compared to soft armor. I'd guess that a pair of plates only offers 50% coverage of your torso area.

Again, good idea, but not tied to the original question. No plate is going to stop a bullet that doesn't hit the plate, nor is soft armor going to stop rifle rounds.

I still stand by my assertion that no soft armor is needed to achieve the NIJ rating of a stand alone plate. If you think you're getting something extra, then by all means do it. There's just no NIJ rating for what you're doing, nor is there any standardized testing.

Posted: 8/22/2006 11:16:09 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
No plate is going to stop a bullet that doesn't hit the plate, nor is soft armor going to stop rifle rounds.

True. But soft panels can increase the survivability of a rifle would. They won't stop the round but they'll knock the velocity down some. I'll take anything I can get!

I'm used to the coverage of a concealment duty vest. When I throw on a plate carrier I feel nakid!

Posted: 8/23/2006 12:02:09 AM EDT

[#11]

SA plates are heavier and thicker because they have to 'catch' any spalling and limit BFD. ICW plates use the soft armor to catch the residual effects. Essentially a SA plate is an ICW with a built in spall liner.

If you're running soft armor, SA plates are just more weight. That said, poly plates are all SA....and are very light.

Simon

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Are soft armor inserts needed with level IV ceramic plates?

Armory » Tactical Gear

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