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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 9/9/2003 5:52:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 6:12:30 PM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:22:23 PM EST
Check out this glock i found on gunbroker tonight. its gotta be the ugliest thing ive ever seen.

link to auction
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:26:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:34:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 6:36:37 PM EST by RiffRandall]
You did leave out the Soviet APS "Stetchkin" , the Polish Wz63 and the HK vp70

I think the various machine pistols are probably the best weapon you could use in a firefight......if it took place in a closet. The Skorpian does have a rate reducer I think & .32acp isn't a real powerhouse so it would probably be the easiest to use. My persoanl choice would be the Stechkin APS.....if only for the quirky Combloc styling & cheap ammo.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:49:20 PM EST
I've never fired one, but there was a recent review of the Vz61 in SAR. Unless you deploy the stock and keep a firm hold on the thing its 'spray & pray'. The perfect piece for a gunfight in a phone booth.

The mini-Uzi is much better. Its a heavier weapon and the brake is fairly effective.

As I recall the 93R has a 3rb rather than unrestricted full auto. And while the one pictured doesn't show it, some are equipped with a folding stock. Again, I've never fired one but I've heard they're fairly controllable.

The G18 is a handful. A lot of muzzle rise and very fast. Without a stock and preferably a vertical grip too, they're a little difficult to keep on target.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 7:42:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 7:48:36 PM EST
...thier fun as hell...
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:39:39 PM EST
Hell yes, they're useful!! Do you know how much ammo you can burn with one of these things??????
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:07:24 AM EST
Aren`t we forgeting something..........

Like the MAC10!
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 12:07:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 12:11:28 PM EST by SNIPERm88]

Originally Posted By kickmyllama:
Check out this glock i found on gunbroker tonight.

Don't you know.....Its Chrominated, it makes it go faster.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:51:40 PM EST
The Skorpian had a rate reducer in it which slowed the bolt's cyclic rate down; it was too bad that it did this with a counter weight that went back and forth as the bolt worked.... this really made the gun inaccurate due to bobbing.

I have shot a G18 enough to tell you that it is useful without the stock if you keep it to 2-3 round bursts at 20 feet. If you put a shoulder stock on it and pull it in tight you can keep a half round magazine burst on the target at 25 feet and go all day long with 3-4 round bursts at 50 feet. I imagine a forward grip would make it a lot more useful. It would be useful for clearing a house but so would a SMG or shorty assault rifle... plus you can use the SMG or Shorty in CQB; butt stroking someone with the shoulder stock on a G18 would not be very effective. Plus it's next to impossible to rig a sling on it.

Machine pistols have their place- it's just very small. They really need a should stock and forward grip to be effective- just like the 93R.

That glock from gunbroker has to be the ugliest firearm I every saw... it makes the RG31 I took off a guy the other night look like a masterpiece.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 6:19:13 PM EST
Subguns do have a limited role BUT they are still important.

they are perfect for close quarters one handed fighting, in situations where you need your other hand, driving a boat or a car.

They are also popular in a method of assasinstion in south america. Where the killers are on motorcycles and they hit their target who is in a car and stuck in traffic.

Link Posted: 9/11/2003 9:20:19 AM EST
Well they wouldn't be useless if I could get them more easily. I could have fun at the range, John Woo style.
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 4:00:27 PM EST
Anything that small falls into the category of phone booth gun.
With the exception of the mini uzi, I gotta believe that you are better off learning to shoot hammers.
Oh, and the driver has enough to keep him occupied, get someone with a shotty or a SMG to do the shooting.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 4:48:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2003 4:54:15 AM EST by RebelGray]
Shot a skorpion before- loads of fun. Its like trying to hold onto an airborne jackhammer though...and whoever said the weight is usless is right, what a shitty idea for a rate reducer. There are a few places I'd want a machine pistol- clearing a small room- say five tangos are in my shitter....or may be you want to eliminate *everyone* in the elevator...no, seriously, they are great "unconventional warfare" tools (ie terrorism, SEAL or AL Queda style, you pick) when the plan goes to hell and volume of fire is more important than accuracy.
Say you're in a hallway and some dude comes at you with a weapon, you've got to drop him and you need him stopped now. You've got three options, a very small shotgun, a large caliber semi auto, or a machine pistol. What you pick is probably going to end up being what your more comfortable with. And hell, who ISNT comfortable with dumping an entire 25 round clip full of 9mm with a fully automatic Beretta
into some jackass ?

While emptying a mag with a MP isnt any more deadly than emptying the same mag in rapid semi-auto fire, its probably going to get everyone to duck a little lower on the other side of the muzzle. If I were some kind of SF operator, I think I'd be comforted in knowing that even if my main weapon is out, I've still got some firepower with me....as opposed to a pop-gun. SOCOM though it may be.

Incidently I may as well add, Astra made a FA 1911 copy in 9x23, and the Mexicans messed around with an FA 45 cal Obregon (Natively produced 1911). My brother Aqil, from the AK boards, now rotting in a Mexican prison for doing yet something ELSE stupid, carried a factory full auto CZ-75 while in Tiblisi. China produces a wide variety of tiny single-handed machine guns, and the MP5K is a very comfortable one handed gun too. And dont forget the M.951R, the Bertta 951 full auto gun too with a ugly wooden fore-grip....
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:53:37 PM EST
I love the "5 tango's in my shitter" Part lolololololol......................UNDERDOG
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 9:45:23 PM EST
Funny that someone brought this up...

I was shooting a Glock 18 the other day at our local machinegun shoot here in Vegas. Usually I just load up the 32 rd mag and have fun ripping into the side of the mountain. The thing is a blast to shoot, but seems like it would be hard to control and keep on a target at anything more than point blank range.
Just as an impromptu test, we set up a life-size target of Saddam Hussein at about 7 yards paced off in the desert. In the weaver stance, I aimed the first shot as you would with a normal pistol, but I held the trigger down till the mag was empty. Forget about using the sites, all you can do is hope that the bullets are going where you want them to.

I was very surprised by the results... all the shots were in the chest cavity. Granted they were all over the place within the chest area, but I expected to have half the rounds not even on paper! With a lot of practice I could easily see someone cutting that group size in half. A stronger person with big hands would probably do a hell of a lot better than I did without any practice; they could just control the weapon by brute force.

I think what SinistralRifleman said is perfect;

They are assasin's weapons...with perhaps limited roles in executive protection.

If I wanted to simply saturate a particular target to make sure it was nuetralized with no possible chance of recovery I would use a machine pistol.

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