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Posted: 3/2/2009 7:22:23 PM EST
I wonder about this, because each involves a separate pull of the trigger to cause a round to go off. But the result is still rapid emptying of a magazine.
Link Posted: 3/2/2009 7:25:38 PM EST
Bump firing? Yes, but not too sure about the rubber band.
Link Posted: 3/2/2009 9:33:29 PM EST
Bump fireing needing a ruber band to do it

Get a happy switch

Once you go NFA you'll never go back.
Link Posted: 3/3/2009 3:14:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/3/2009 3:18:09 AM EST by Retic]
They are both legal.

While it is true that happy switches are great it is not the $200 tax and the paperwork that keep people from getting them. It's the fact that everybody wants a full auto AR not an Uzi, and they cost $10,000+
Link Posted: 3/3/2009 2:27:54 PM EST
Rubber band?? I'd say illegal - no different that the shoe string or Accelerator spring. Each one delivers one bang per trigger pull. I'm sure this makes perfect sense to BTAFE
Link Posted: 3/3/2009 3:20:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By jtl1952:
Rubber band?? I'd say illegal - no different that the shoe string or Accelerator spring. Each one delivers one bang per trigger pull. I'm sure this makes perfect sense to BTAFE

I'd say legal, its no different than a HellStorm 2000.

It's BATFE not BTAFE by the way.

http://www.poormansmachinegun.com/
Link Posted: 3/3/2009 3:50:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/3/2009 3:51:06 PM EST by Zack3g]
Originally Posted By MrM4:
Bump fireing needing a ruber band to do it

Get a happy switch

Once you go NFA you'll never go back.


i own a M16. I also bump fire several semi autos, mostly AK variants and primarily my SLR-105. I can usually bump just about any semi auto with a few minutes of familiarization with the gun. I'm not quite to the level that I can just pick up anything and rattle off a full mag with it.

I can aim while bumping, control the number of shots fired per burst, or dump an entire magazine with my SLR105 and AR15 rifles.

...from the shoulder.



here's a bad cell phone vid for ya.
Link Posted: 3/4/2009 7:43:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 7:45:50 AM EST by Jerad]
Originally Posted By Retic:
They are both legal.

While it is true that happy switches are great it is not the $200 tax and the paperwork that keep people from getting them. It's the fact that everybody wants a full auto AR M16 not AND an Uzi, and they cost $10,000+


Link Posted: 3/4/2009 11:52:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2009 11:59:15 AM EST by Retic]

Originally Posted By Jerad:
Originally Posted By Retic:
They are both legal.

While it is true that happy switches are great it is not the $200 tax and the paperwork that keep people from getting them. It's the fact that everybody wants a full auto AR M16 not AND an Uzi, and they cost $10,000+



1. You must not understand how things work. Say I have an AR15 and I put a RLL or RDIAS in it. It may be full auto but it is still an AR because it is not a RR. Therefore it is not an M16. Technically its not even a machine gun. In the eyes of the BATFE the RDIAS or RLL is the firearm.

2. The reason I said not instead of and is because Uzis do not cost what a RDIAS costs. Therefore the reason people don't get a full auto is because they want a $10,000+ weapon. They do not want an Uzi which cost half that or less. The point is, it is price prohibitive, not paper work and time.

I may not have been clear but if you fail to understand my post feel free to comment. Do not attempt to fix it by making it incorrect.
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 5:09:44 AM EST
Zack, you have perfected your bump firing technique!!!
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 3:41:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/10/2009 3:43:11 PM EST by Jerad]
Originally Posted By Retic:

Originally Posted By Jerad:
Originally Posted By Retic:
They are both legal.

While it is true that happy switches are great it is not the $200 tax and the paperwork that keep people from getting them. It's the fact that everybody wants a full auto AR M16 not AND an Uzi, and they cost $10,000+



1. You must not understand how things work. Say I have an AR15 and I put a RLL or RDIAS in it. It may be full auto but it is still an AR because it is not a RR. Therefore it is not an M16. Technically its not even a machine gun. In the eyes of the BATFE the RDIAS or RLL is the firearm.

2. The reason I said not instead of and is because Uzis do not cost what a RDIAS costs. Therefore the reason people don't get a full auto is because they want a $10,000+ weapon. They do not want an Uzi which cost half that or less. The point is, it is price prohibitive, not paper work and time.

I may not have been clear but if you fail to understand my post feel free to comment. Do not attempt to fix it by making it incorrect.


Yea, you're right, I've got my RDIAS locked up in my safe, but I have no idea how they work....

I may be good, but I'm no mind reader. Before you this thread was in no way, shape or form talking about RLLs or RDIASs and you never specified what you were taking about, so since all you said was "FULL AUTO AR15" which is a false statement without specifying a conversion device, I corrected it in the most logical manor. Had you said everyone wants a RDIAS/LL so they can shoot their AR15 full auto I would have agreed.

As for your statement about people wanting "full auto Ar15s" over Uzi, well that's just silly.... You know the AR15 mantra is GET BOTH!!!

So there you go, it's not that I didn't understand your post, it's just that you didn't make any sense....

Link Posted: 6/10/2009 5:32:00 PM EST
Some of you guys are mixing apples and oranges.


If you pull the trigger with your finger, every time a bullet a comes out, then you are OKAY/LEGAL.

If, in the use of a "shoe string" or "acelerator", the ACTION of the bolt flying back pulls the string, which in turn PULLS THE TRIGGER AUTOMATICALY FOR YOU, then you are illegal.

Big difference guys. Don't confuse the two, and don't give the ATF any ideas.

Rubber band just HELPS you pull the trigger faster - but the bottom line is it's still ONE trigger Pull, and ONE round. In the "shoe string" it's ONE trigger pull, and then the rest of the magazine dumps without you doing anything because the recoil throws the bolt/slide back which then pulls the string, which pulls the trigger...until the mag is empty.

trust me...lol
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 6:09:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 7:26:46 PM EST
I give up.

Anybody want my rubber band collection?
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 7:35:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 7:50:51 PM EST
So basically the BATFE has taken the liberty to interpret the law to be:

The National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, defines the term “firearm” to
include a machinegun. Section 5845(b) of the NFA defines “machinegun” as “any
weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot,
automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the
trigger and/or finger.

What if the Akins device caused the trigger and finger to move between each shot - do you think there would be any way to classify it as a MG then?
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 3:27:28 PM EST
I was under the impression that the shoe string method involved a gentleman tying a shoe string to the charging handle of his AK and the other end to his finger. If the length of the string is just right, the momentum of the bolt flying forward will pull his finger off the trigger for just a moment. Keeping constant pressure on the trigger finger, the trigger is pressed again and the process repeats. The length has to be precise. Too long and the bolt is pulled out of battery when the trigger is pulled to the rear, too short and the finger isn't pulled far enough forward to reset the trigger. This is definitely "a single function of the trigger" (and finger) for each round fired. This is also a very similar concept to the Akins Accelerator. The BATFE is clearly just plain making shit up now as the ruling on the shoe string and Akins Accelerator ignore the "single function of the trigger" standard, even if you make up some bullshit about the finger, too.

I have yet to see a ruling on bump firing or the rubber band method, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the BATFE go either way on it. They clearly like to make shit up and some agents seem to make a career out of butt fucking people, but the mechanical principles involved in the rubber band and bump firing are much different. I tell you one thing, though, I wouldn't do it in sight of anyone I didn't know really well, even if I could afford the ammo now days.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 7:14:37 PM EST
I believe the shoestring is illegal because they would tie it around the charging handle then loop it around the trigger then have a loop on the end for their finger. They kept pressure on the the string and when the bolt back it put some slack in the string and when it went forward it took up the slack and made the gun go off which is done automatically by the bolt going forward
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 10:43:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 12:12:34 PM EST
you Boys that always look for these Clarifications....are just looking for trouble.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 1:45:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By BSOG1:
you Boys that always look for these Clarifications....are just looking for trouble.


+1
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 3:46:10 PM EST
bump firing, and shoestrings are LEGAL.

end of story. and your welcome for the clarification.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 4:34:12 PM EST
Just BUY LEGAL Class 3.....End OF Story
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 4:57:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By BSOG1:
Just BUY LEGAL Class 3.....End OF Story


If it were just that easy.

Most of us do not have extra thousands of dollars laying around - especially in the current economy. That is why the Akins's of the world are trying to come up with better FA simulators.

YMMV

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 5:25:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 5:34:20 PM EST by leonpiper69]
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Originally Posted By BSOG1:
Just BUY LEGAL Class 3.....End OF Story


If it were just that easy.

Most of us do not have extra thousands of dollars laying around - especially in the current economy. That is why the Akins's of the world are trying to come up with better FA simulators.

YMMV



and some of us are stuck in states where class 3 isn't legal (even if we COULD afford it).

heres the shoe string and the bumping ruleings by the atf
http://www.bobernet.com/blog/2007/07/shoe_string_no_longer_a_machin.html
as of 25 june 2007 this is legal

http://www.poormansmachinegun.com/PMMG2.htm
as of 13 october 2006 this is legal (not that it was ever illegal but the atf has expressed their ruleing)


and heres a link to some dumbass (me) on my myspace there is a video my friend took of me shooting of the back porch. the reason i say check out the vid is because anyone who has shot a real full auto (and i have) will tell you how awsome it is, and if you look at the huge grin on my face at the end of the video that should explain how fun it can be.
http://www.myspace.com/98368192

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 6:11:03 PM EST
Using a rubber band to assist in the technique of bump firing is nothing more that adding a heavier trigger return spring to an AR15. They ban a rubber band then any gun with a trigger return spring would be illegal. The BATFE FTB has never given me a clear yes or no answer on the legality of using a rubber band to make bump firing easier. I don't expect they ever will. Because the rubber band duplicates what the HellStorm 2000 trigger devices do, and they have been BATFE approved since the late 80's, I would have to assume that the rubber band would not become an issue.

Bottom line is the rubber band is a joke, thought up in spite of the Hellstorm 2000 devices! It is not needed to make your firearm bump fire. Just like the Hellstorm devices are not needed to make your firearm bump fire. But they do help! So if you decide you want something to help you bump fire what do you choose, something that cost $40.00 or something that you probably have laying around your house.

Below is a link to the Hellstorm 2000 device commercial, and a link to my Hellstorm2000 spoof video!


Hellstorm 2000

EBR 5000 Trigger Manipulator
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 7:12:09 PM EST
dude, you are Never ''stuck''.... if you want something bad enough...sacrafice and get it !
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:21:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 10:48:18 AM EST by NineMMAR15]
Originally Posted By BSOG1:
dude, you are Never ''stuck''.... if you want something bad enough...sacrafice and get it !


Dispite the ease of use of machine guns, I don't think I will ever be able to justify spending several thousands of dollars on a firearm that could someday be able to be manufactured again by the right Congressional & Presidental action! Not to mention that after discovering that most popular semi-auto's can be bump fired off the shoulder accurately ,and as fast as a true machine gun without the cost, and red tape of a transferable machine guns I will stick with my poormans technique.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 12:36:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 12:40:09 PM EST by EKUJustice]
Your dreaming about them being able to be manufactured again. Not passing any new gun restrictions is one thing but to allow machines to be manufactured again isnt gonna pass. Could you see the news media on that one, theywould have a field day if they even tried to open the registry back up. As far as MOST people know machine guns are illegal and its best to keep them thinking that. If they knew anyone with a wad of cash, a clean background and a few months to wait could buy the stuff they can there would be alot of pressure to get rid of them because they would just view it as a way criminals can buy full auto guns.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 1:53:54 PM EST
Does the Hellfire come with the bitchen glasses and a shot of roids? If so, $40 is a good deal...

Jeremy
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 2:42:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 2:46:06 PM EST by NineMMAR15]
Originally Posted By EKUJustice:
Your dreaming about them being able to be manufactured again. Not passing any new gun restrictions is one thing but to allow machines to be manufactured again isnt gonna pass. Could you see the news media on that one, they would have a field day if they even tried to open the registry back up. As far as MOST people know machine guns are illegal and its best to keep them thinking that. If they knew anyone with a wad of cash, a clean background and a few months to wait could buy the stuff they can there would be alot of pressure to get rid of them because they would just view it as a way criminals can buy full auto guns.


I am far from dreaming. I was merely stating that the Hughes Amendment could be repealed by a simple congressional or presidential act. Then your $15k investment is worthless. I didn't say anything about the probability of it happening.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:36:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By EKUJustice:
Your dreaming about them being able to be manufactured again. Not passing any new gun restrictions is one thing but to allow machines to be manufactured again isnt gonna pass. Could you see the news media on that one, theywould have a field day if they even tried to open the registry back up. As far as MOST people know machine guns are illegal and its best to keep them thinking that. If they knew anyone with a wad of cash, a clean background and a few months to wait could buy the stuff they can there would be alot of pressure to get rid of them because they would just view it as a way criminals can buy full auto guns.



i for one don't want liberal gun grabbers or especially the general public thinking they are illegal. to me that logic is assanine. if the general public or media thinks its illegal, then to them any laws restricting them would make sense "heck their already illegal, why not have some more laws to keep us safe". the general publics ignorance is the reason for most gun control laws to begin with. if every one knew they were legal and saw how no one was comiiting crimes with legally owned class three stuff (of any type), then there could be some hope of that 1986 law being repealed. the media and general publics ignorance is the very reason it will never happen.

i had a discussion w/ my buddies g/f (liberal anti gun chick). she told me she was glad machine guns were illegal because if you could legally buy them people would just want in to a store, buy it, and go commit mass murder. when i explained to her all the hoops and expenses, plus time to wait vs. going to any major city and paying much less (you think a f/a AR cost 15 g's in a back alley? i think not.) with no backgroung check or time to wait, even she (an adament anti gun liberal) admitted banning something like that didnt make a whole lot of sense.

and im sorry if your offended justice but your backword way of thinking is just the type of attitude the brady's and feinsteins of the world like and helps make them chipping away at law abidding gun owners rights that much easier.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 6:00:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Jerad:
Originally Posted By Retic:

Originally Posted By Jerad:
Originally Posted By Retic:
They are both legal.

While it is true that happy switches are great it is not the $200 tax and the paperwork that keep people from getting them. It's the fact that everybody wants a full auto AR M16 not AND an Uzi, and they cost $10,000+



1. You must not understand how things work. Say I have an AR15 and I put a RLL or RDIAS in it. It may be full auto but it is still an AR because it is not a RR. Therefore it is not an M16. Technically its not even a machine gun. In the eyes of the BATFE the RDIAS or RLL is the firearm.

2. The reason I said not instead of and is because Uzis do not cost what a RDIAS costs. Therefore the reason people don't get a full auto is because they want a $10,000+ weapon. They do not want an Uzi which cost half that or less. The point is, it is price prohibitive, not paper work and time.

I may not have been clear but if you fail to understand my post feel free to comment. Do not attempt to fix it by making it incorrect.


Yea, you're right, I've got my RDIAS locked up in my safe, but I have no idea how they work....

I may be good, but I'm no mind reader. Before you this thread was in no way, shape or form talking about RLLs or RDIASs and you never specified what you were taking about, so since all you said was "FULL AUTO AR15" which is a false statement without specifying a conversion device, I corrected it in the most logical manor. Had you said everyone wants a RDIAS/LL so they can shoot their AR15 full auto I would have agreed.

As for your statement about people wanting "full auto Ar15s" over Uzi, well that's just silly.... You know the AR15 mantra is GET BOTH!!!

So there you go, it's not that I didn't understand your post, it's just that you didn't make any sense....




This is funny because I just bought a RR AR15 and a Uzi w'in the last month, both full auto
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