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Posted: 1/23/2013 10:03:31 AM EDT
Just sold my only AR for a price I couldn't refuse. Was able to pay off the remainder of our medical bills and CC. I have enough left over for a lever gun and a ruger .357. Saw a Rossi .357 lever gun for $434 at my local LGS, seems like a nice little rifle. Just looking for a different setup until AR's get back into stock and the prices come down.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/23/2013 10:45:17 AM EDT
... sort of.

I've been living part time on a farm, and have a new perspective on utility rifles in the rural environment. Picked up a 44mag lever gun mostly just for fun, but I was also considering the SHTF possibilities.

The obvious cons:
- Slow to reload
- Need for different training to be fast at follow up shots... most of us are probably much faster at working an AK, AR, and pump shotgun over a lever action
- Relatively low round capacity
- Need for training to clear malfunctions (again, totally different than most common actions for SHTF guns)
- Hammer manipulation can be a safety issue (ie lowering the hammer to half cocked position on a loaded chamber)
- Carrying reloads is tricky, much more so than carrying mags
- Short effective distance. I would probably not go beyond 125 yards on a high-risk shot with my 44 mag

The pros:
- Very compact gun. My 16 inch bbl Rossi is tiny compared to every other "repeating" rifle I have
- Simple operation. Much faster to train up a newbie on a lever gun than a semi auto black rifle (not that you should, if possible, ALWAYS train a newbie on the best tool available!)
- Relatively inexpensive, about 1/3 the cost of an AR
- Reliability, most have a great record
- Less "scary" factor. If you ended up in a public place shootout, it could be argued that you would get slightly less immediate attention than if you pulled out an AK with 30 round mag. Kind of a dumb argument, but interesting anyway...
- Pistol caliber rifles normally are not useful to me, but looking at the ballistics of the 44 mag out of a 16" barrel is very compelling inside about 125 yards. 357 mag out of a 16" barrel is also pretty impressive.
- There's just something damn cool about a lever gun.
Link Posted: 1/23/2013 10:45:53 AM EDT
But that said, get back into a proper defensive carbine as soon as you can!
Link Posted: 1/23/2013 10:52:34 AM EDT
Grab it before somebody else does.

Anyone who has ever seen a western movie knows how to operate a lever-action rifle, and anybody who can't let the hammer down on a lever action rifle safely probably needs to sell all their guns and take up butterfly collecting.
Link Posted: 1/23/2013 2:57:05 PM EDT
Quoted:
Grab it before somebody else does.

Anyone who has ever seen a western movie knows how to operate a lever-action rifle, and anybody who can't let the hammer down on a lever action rifle safely probably needs to sell all their guns and take up butterfly collecting.


Well now, most westerns I've seen show them doing it wrong.  They either drop it from their shoulder to work the lever, or do some stupid thing like swing cock it or fire from it butted against their hip.  Heck, even one of the better "levergun" westerns Winchester 73 had it all messed up.
Link Posted: 1/23/2013 3:29:04 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Grab it before somebody else does.

Anyone who has ever seen a western movie knows how to operate a lever-action rifle, and anybody who can't let the hammer down on a lever action rifle safely probably needs to sell all their guns and take up butterfly collecting.


Well now, most westerns I've seen show them doing it wrong.  They either drop it from their shoulder to work the lever, or do some stupid thing like swing cock it or fire from it butted against their hip.  Heck, even one of the better "levergun" westerns Winchester 73 had it all messed up.


Just pay attention to the ones who do it right and ignore the hollywood asshattery. Buried in all the bullshit is some straightforward gun handling.

You don't need a very high IQ to figure out that you really don't have to dismount it to work the lever.

Link Posted: 1/23/2013 3:40:13 PM EDT
Buy it if you like it...How ever what to you want. What is your side arm IE what caliber do you carry ? 9MM .45ACP etc Buy the pair. Anyway a good pair will beat a single weapon. Plus the new Mossberg as some good options IE Tactical stuff. Get what works for you at the price you can afford nothing else really matters. Why have something that costs to much to buy...
Link Posted: 1/25/2013 2:51:30 PM EDT
Pretty good price....the 357's are being bought up....can be cheap to shoot .38's in it.

Lever gun is better than no gun, and 6 hot 357's in a shoulder mounted gun can be formidable - don't forget - 357 in a 16" barrel generate velocities in the 1700 fps range - not the published 1400 or so from a 6" revolver.

Not a zombie gun, but is fine for somebody poking around the windows that shouldn't be there....
Link Posted: 1/25/2013 3:07:07 PM EDT
I have put 1,000's of round down my Marlin '94 from Cowboy Action shooting.  I am more comfortable shooting that gun than any other that I own.  That makes it a good defense IMHO.  10 rounds of .357 mag and the thing is so smooth it never jams.
Link Posted: 1/26/2013 5:27:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2013 5:43:00 PM EDT
My Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 is always loaded next to the shotty within arm's reach of my bed. Quick handling and comfortable. Body armor or not, 405 grains of hardcast travelling at 1900+fps is gonna make a mess.
Link Posted: 1/29/2013 8:48:00 AM EDT
At this time with the media just waiting to bad mouth anyone who has or uses a semi auto rifle  (assault  rifle, idiot term) I think a good lever action rifes is a great choice for defense. It is much harder for the media to say you are a wacko kill crazy person if you have to settle something with a rifle, if it is a 100+ year old design that the cowboys used. I have one in the car (16" 45lc) and a 20" in the house 45lc. They can be fairly fast, are accurate and pack a pretty serious punch. Save the semi auto for when the shtf.
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 6:42:12 PM EDT
Lever action is easy to carry,the 92s are lightweight, can be topped off easily, don't toss brass unless you want to, and are often chambered in pistol calibers. Many have a decent trigger as well. Seems like some decent strong points. Suppressed would make them pretty close to perfect...
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 6:48:21 PM EDT
Definitely... first thing I though about after getting mine was how to quiet it down.

Quoted:
Lever action is easy to carry,the 92s are lightweight, can be topped off easily, don't toss brass unless you want to, and are often chambered in pistol calibers. Many have a decent trigger as well. Seems like some decent strong points. Suppressed would make them pretty close to perfect...


Link Posted: 1/30/2013 6:55:15 PM EDT
I agree with the Model 92 comments.

An 18-20" barreled shotgun is a very effective home defense weapon that is comparatively easy to master and with buckshot through either a rifled slug barrel or cylinder bore accuracy is not all that great a challenge.

In comparison, a lever gun like the Model 92 can be almost as fast.  However the potential cons would be a greater challenge in getting acceptable accuracy and a greater potential for over penetration with any misses as those rounds would be more likely to exit your residence and enter a neighbor's residence than buckshot.
Link Posted: 2/2/2013 12:48:00 PM EDT
Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag (pre-Remington) was my truck gun for several years before moving to a less-rural part of the state.  Carted that rifle around EVERYWHERE.  Light, fast handling, natural to point & shoot.  Real sweet plinking with 44 Specials, and devastating on anything inside 150 yards with 44 Mags.  It was just routine for me to throw it in the truck whenever I went out in the woods.

I didn't keep it loaded for home defense, though.  Main concern was over-penetration, but that had a lot to do with my living situation at the time (triplex w/neighbors on either side).  If/when I find myself living a little further out in the sticks again (working on it!), that rifle will be a go-to.

Note, I removed the sling eyelets to make it a little "smoother", but thinking I might add them back on and get a good leather sling.  Also, I had some intermittent problems with feeding some varieties of 44 Mag JSP's, which were finally solved by GENTLY polishing and de-burring the feed ramp.  I've never really been anal about cleaning it, but you need to keep an eye on lead shavings & other junk building up around the chamber mouth.
Link Posted: 2/3/2013 2:48:03 AM EDT
I've bought a Rossi ranch hand for a trunk gun. Since it is a pistol my ccw covers it.
Link Posted: 4/4/2013 5:30:25 AM EDT
I had a rifle rack on the dash of my 1956 CJ-5 (with the old F head 4 cylinder engine) and a Model 94 .30-30 lived in it for years.
Link Posted: 4/4/2013 5:58:18 AM EDT
I've had a Winchester model 94 30-30 as my go to/ home defense gun for decades.  I recently added a 20" Rossi M92 in .357 which will hold 12 .38 LSWC-HP (AKA FBI load)
Link Posted: 4/6/2013 2:00:17 AM EDT
If I absolutely could not have a semiauto magazine fed carbine I'd feel "ok" with a .357 or .44 lever gun for most defensive purposes assuming no threats with body armor.

I know a shotgun is probably a better choice but I still really like the lever guns and feel more comfortable with them just out of familiarity.
Link Posted: 4/6/2013 5:17:57 AM EDT
I have a pre Remington Marlin 1894P in .44 Mag, and a Rossi 92 (16 inch) in .357.

Even though I have an AR, I would never feel "under gunned" with either of the lever guns.
In many ways they remind me of an M1 Carbine in the way they handle.  Light, easy to shoulder,
and as has been noted in all the posts above, the pistol calibers take on a new dimension
when fired from carbine length barrels.

It's also pretty amazing just how quickly you can place accurate rounds downrange with a lever gun.

Every serious gun owner should have at least one in his/her inventory, even if they do have a modern
semi auto rifle as their primary.
Link Posted: 4/11/2013 4:22:30 AM EDT
I bought myself a Rossi M92 .44 mag stainless carbine for 'hog use'...which means it gets a lot of truck carry and or atv carry. Stainless steel the way to go for that sort of use.
Link Posted: 4/11/2013 1:51:29 PM EDT
funny this came topic came along I was just thinking of putting my 1894 44mag in the truck.  I bought some land and thought it may be handy to have available.
Link Posted: 4/19/2013 6:24:23 PM EDT
I keep an 1894S in 44 Mag behind the seat of the truck. I have a beater that I bought for $100 back around '94 or so. It has lived in my truck ever since.
Link Posted: 4/19/2013 7:08:43 PM EDT
I have several levers.  All excellent go to guns. I have in 22, 45-70, and 44.  30-30 is a great go to as well.
Link Posted: 4/19/2013 7:52:17 PM EDT
My 16" Rossi 92 in .357 will be my new "traveling" gun. Lately it's also been my bedside weapon.

Link Posted: 4/21/2013 10:14:38 AM EDT
Lever guns is how we do it at my house. Handloaded 44 Specials out of a 1894 Marlin. Get off my lawn 30-30 Winchester available for harder targets
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:02:50 AM EDT
Quoted:
I have a pre Remington Marlin 1894P in .44 Mag, and a Rossi 92 (16 inch) in .357.

Even though I have an AR, I would never feel "under gunned" with either of the lever guns.
In many ways they remind me of an M1 Carbine in the way they handle.  Light, easy to shoulder,
and as has been noted in all the posts above, the pistol calibers take on a new dimension
when fired from carbine length barrels.

It's also pretty amazing just how quickly you can place accurate rounds downrange with a lever gun.

Every serious gun owner should have at least one in his/her inventory, even if they do have a modern
semi auto rifle as their primary.


I have one of these somewhat rare Marlins also.  It is hands down one of my favorite guns and along with a 629 my wife bought me on our fifth anniversary some 15 years ago it will be one of the last guns I'd ever sell.  It will always have a home with me.  And it can do anything from plinking up to game hunting and defense duties.  If you do your own loading the potential for .44 in a carbine length is huge in both directoins of the power spectrum.  If you are loading some really hot stuff and you have a companion revolver that isn't a Ruger Super Redhawk or Super Blackhawk, you need to find a way to keep track of what is and what isn't okay for the wheelgun.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:28:41 PM EDT
My mom lives alone on a small farm and she now uses a Rossi 16" 357 lever gun for home defense. She used to have a Glock 17, but, recently she has found that manipulating the slide is too difficult due to  a loss of strength in her hands. The small lever action carbine works out great for her and I appreciate the increased ballistics of the 16" barrel if she ever had cause to use it on any type of predator.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 11:38:47 AM EDT
When my grandfather was still alive he carried a 16" .357 in his camper when he traveled.  Fewer restrictions on lever action rifles than handguns as he traveled through various states and it was easier for him to hit his target with than his Colt Trooper.  It rode around in his Suburban when he wasn't camping.  

I've got it now as well as a 16" Rossi of my own; you could certainly do a lot worse than a quick handling lever gun.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 6:48:09 PM EDT
I just retired and wife and i enjoy back wood primitive campgrounds. We have an Aliner camper. My travel/camping gun is a 1967 Winchester 94 in 30-30. I have less than $200 in it so if it disappears its not like one of my ARs, I worked up a self defense load with 220g soft points that are very accurate at 50 yds. Its in the camper or wrapped in a blanket within arms reach when we are outside. It also fits well in a kayak. Its accurate, reliable, simple, powerful, and inexpensive.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:23:45 PM EDT
My  covert assault rifle, with zeiss red dot, very accurate, has taken a lot of abuse and killed a few deer and other things. Travels with me in the truck, next to the bed at night, just requires a good light.

Link Posted: 7/20/2013 11:28:33 PM EDT
Although I am no exert I do know some things and common sense rules. For home defense, any gun can be used if you can shoot well. That is the key factor, can you shoot it and operate it properly. Any gun that is moderately accurate and has enough force can be used. I would not recommend a .22, but it is like hunting, shot placement is most important, so even a .22 can be deadly. Israeli assassins used a light .22 load for head shots with suppressors after the Olympic terrorist attack in 1972.

Recently a woman with a .38 revolver hit an assailant 5 times inside her house, he ran away and dropped about a block away. None of the shots were in vital areas, I guess some people think just hitting someone is enough, it's not. At close range she should have tried to put it center mass (2 shots) and then a head shot. Even a groin shot will drop a man quickly if you are at an angle that would make it the easier first shot, like on the ground and the assailant over you, he can bleed out in seconds. For a woman a lower abdominal shot will also bleed her out quickly, women have a lot of blood vessels in that area and is considered a vital area that men do not have.

Another anecdote is a also true story. I was on my way to a friend and this happened a few minutes after I passed the gas station on the way. A mafia guy got hit at least 9 times with 9mm rounds from a SMG. He was about 450 pounds and not one round penetrated the fat, he lived and became an informant. That is a true story you can look it up, it happened on Staten Island New York City in the mid 1980s.

My point is that it's all about shot placement and hitting vital zones. Everybody says nothing less than a 12 gauge or AR is acceptable for home defense and I have to say that is BS. The best weapon is the weapon you shoot the best. Remember home defense is like CQB, you are working in a close environment, large ungainly weapons are a hindrance. ARs with a bunch of stuff hanging off the front makes for a slow front heavy weapon to operate. You want something you can get on target fast and shoot accurately. A 10 round lever gun in .357 or .44, .45 should be able to handle 1-3 intruders easily, if you know how to operate the weapon properly.

So if your choice is a lever gun that's fine as long as you do some training with it. Pick a good defensive position with some cover in your home. Know where any intruders will enter and prepare to defend from that position. No matter how many rounds you fire reload quickly and be ready to fire again, so I would, like a shotgun recommend having more ammo on the rifle itself. I'm still working on the whole light thing on your gun. I don't know yet I have to do some practice to determine if it's better to use one or try to retain your night vision by closing one eye during a fight. I learned some things in the Army years ago and want to see if they work now that I am going to live in an area that allows you to defend yourself. I shot weapons with mounted night vision and after the first burst the night vision was useless. Although that was Gen 1 and 2 designs.

You could have a full auto SMG and still not hit anything inside your home if you do not train on that weapon for home defense scenarios. Some idiots even say you don't have to aim a 12 gauge and that is dangerous BS to be saying.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 12:53:19 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Although I am no exert I do know some things and common sense rules. For home defense, any gun can be used if you can shoot well. That is the key factor, can you shoot it and operate it properly. Any gun that is moderately accurate and has enough force can be used. I would not recommend a .22, but it is like hunting, shot placement is most important, so even a .22 can be deadly. Israeli assassins used a light .22 load for head shots with suppressors after the Olympic terrorist attack in 1972.

Recently a woman with a .38 revolver hit an assailant 5 times inside her house, he ran away and dropped about a block away. None of the shots were in vital areas, I guess some people think just hitting someone is enough, it's not. At close range she should have tried to put it center mass (2 shots) and then a head shot. Even a groin shot will drop a man quickly if you are at an angle that would make it the easier first shot, like on the ground and the assailant over you, he can bleed out in seconds. For a woman a lower abdominal shot will also bleed her out quickly, women have a lot of blood vessels in that area and is considered a vital area that men do not have.

Another anecdote is a also true story. I was on my way to a friend and this happened a few minutes after I passed the gas station on the way. A mafia guy got hit at least 9 times with 9mm rounds from a SMG. He was about 450 pounds and not one round penetrated the fat, he lived and became an informant. That is a true story you can look it up, it happened on Staten Island New York City in the mid 1980s.

My point is that it's all about shot placement and hitting vital zones. Everybody says nothing less than a 12 gauge or AR is acceptable for home defense and I have to say that is BS. The best weapon is the weapon you shoot the best. Remember home defense is like CQB, you are working in a close environment, large ungainly weapons are a hindrance. ARs with a bunch of stuff hanging off the front makes for a slow front heavy weapon to operate. You want something you can get on target fast and shoot accurately. A 10 round lever gun in .357 or .44, .45 should be able to handle 1-3 intruders easily, if you know how to operate the weapon properly.

So if your choice is a lever gun that's fine as long as you do some training with it. Pick a good defensive position with some cover in your home. Know where any intruders will enter and prepare to defend from that position. No matter how many rounds you fire reload quickly and be ready to fire again, so I would, like a shotgun recommend having more ammo on the rifle itself. I'm still working on the whole light thing on your gun. I don't know yet I have to do some practice to determine if it's better to use one or try to retain your night vision by closing one eye during a fight. I learned some things in the Army years ago and want to see if they work now that I am going to live in an area that allows you to defend yourself. I shot weapons with mounted night vision and after the first burst the night vision was useless. Although that was Gen 1 and 2 designs.

You could have a full auto SMG and still not hit anything inside your home if you do not train on that weapon for home defense scenarios. Some idiots even say you don't have to aim a 12 gauge and that is dangerous BS to be saying.
View Quote


The one where the invader came after the lady in the crawlspace?
Because there was one recently where a burglar broke in, lady grabbed her daughter and retreated to the crawlspace with a .38 and a phone calling 9-1-1. Guy came after her, she emptied the revolver at him, hit him 5 for 6 and because he was crawling in, she hit him in the head and upper torso. He lived, and even asked her to stop shooting.
Link Posted: 7/24/2013 12:56:04 AM EDT
I have a Browning BLR Takedown in my truck right now.  Takes me about 15 seconds to ready.



It's magazine-fed.



 
Link Posted: 7/25/2013 9:58:42 PM EDT
I have used a Winchester 44 Mag Trapper, as a travel,  vehicle, utility, camp, ATV, and farm/ranch rifle for several years.

I have killed several deer, a few pigs, turkey, and a bunch of small game with a 44 Mag rifle.

It is light, handy, and as others have stated Low Profile...
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 9:43:03 AM EDT
I have found my take-down Co-Pilot in .457/ 45-70 fits nicely in the rear wheel well cubby of my Cayenne S. I keep a variety of loads with it, from full power Garrett's and Buffalo Bore, Leverevolutions, and lesser volatile hollow points. Even keep a few .410 shotshells around, in order to keep my options open.



Link Posted: 7/29/2013 4:09:47 AM EDT
I have been wanting to pick up a .44 lever gun for my truck.  How is the quality of Rossi?  They seem quite small which is what I want, but I also want it to last a life time.
Link Posted: 9/6/2013 7:23:48 PM EDT
My guide gun is my primary home defense gun.  Yes, 45-70 will over penetrate.  However, that is also an advantage.  There are no walls to hide behind in my house and I know it, my family knows it, and the fool breaking in doesn't.  Besides, nothing like seeing your buddies head explode standing behind a few inches of sheet rock to make some crack head crap their pants and try to run out of my house.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 8:22:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My  covert assault rifle, with zeiss red dot, very accurate, has taken a lot of abuse and killed a few deer and other things. Travels with me in the truck, next to the bed at night, just requires a good light.

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q427/Old18C/Toys/Archs2012.jpg
View Quote


Sir, this is a goo looking rifle. How accurate is it at 100 yards?
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 5:48:42 PM EDT
My Rossi .357 has been in my truck since I bought it.
Shot a yote with it a few days ago at about 70 yards.
It's a very handy truck gun.
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