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1/16/2020 9:48:49 PM
Posted: 5/4/2008 5:04:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2008 4:13:26 AM EST by GonzoAR15-1]
I'm getting ready to fire up another home hot blue for a luger I got used and which, either the importer or some bubba, committed the deplorable crime of dipping a partially blued gun into the park tank, resulting in a half-blued, half-parked disaster. Since the collector value is obliterated, its going to be my "shooter" Luger, but I'm going to blue it, because that's the way its supposed to be.

I previously blued a Star Model SS in .380, which turned out very very nice. I'd be interested in doing a project with a good write up and photos for the boards, if folks think it would be useful.

Here's some pics of the Star pistol, which I checkered on the front strap and put grooves on the rear.









Link Posted: 5/5/2008 1:44:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/5/2008 3:03:06 AM EST
I would definitely like to see one on home hot blue, also That front strap checkering is cherry, I like to see how that is done too.
Link Posted: 5/5/2008 8:40:52 AM EST
definitely, I have a 1911 that I want to do.
Link Posted: 5/5/2008 9:16:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By bwehn:
I would definitely like to see one on home hot blue, also That front strap checkering is cherry, I like to see how that is done too.


The checkering is a pain in the butt. But its essentially as follows.

You get a checkering file from Brownells. That example was 30lpi, I think. Anyway, you set up your jig, I used carpenters' squares with a layer of polycarbonate glued on, and you lay in a light layer of lines in each direction. The very first lines are the most important, obviously. Then you move it a tooth at a time until you've got a nice waffle pattern. Your jig is to keep things at the right angles. You run the side of the file, which is perfectly square to the teeth, along your jig, you see.

Once you've laid in the pattern, you begin cutting in earnest with harder strokes. You cannot go too much horizontal or vertical at a time without then cutting the other direction, or the teeth catch on the grooves.
Once you've got depth, you use a single needle file to go in and do the final cut, adding the pyramid tops. Burnish with a black steel hand brush, then use flat files and stones to blend at the edges.

Finally, do the rest of your metal prep. On a gun with lots of flat surfaces, like the Star above, you buy a bit of "plate glass" which is perfectly flat, and use a layer of sand paper, then rub the slide along a guide to keep your sand marks parallel. Increase grit, and ultimately you'll have perfectly flat surfaces. The plat glass keeps the edges from getting rounded. Don't sand by hand. That's the biggest "newb" mistake I see.
Link Posted: 5/6/2008 6:57:04 AM EST
I'd be interested
Link Posted: 5/6/2008 7:25:46 AM EST
OK, guys. I'll write it up and document the "big day."

It will be a number of weeks, as I'm still doing the metal work and I'm using a pretty light touch; eschewing the buffing wheel for hand polishing and flat surface sanding wherever possible.

Link Posted: 5/6/2008 4:10:07 PM EST
I am eagerly awaiting more information. I have a couple of guns that I am going to try to rust blue. I have a friend with tanks, and I am going to try to hot blue one also.

I have also tried nitre bluing. It works better on the old low carbon steels used prior to WWI, so it is not the best thing going today. It is, however, easy to perform. I use it all the time on screws and pins, and have used it on Gov't model grip safeties. Here is an example of one I did this winter. It was in pretty sorry shape when I received it, especially considering it is MIM, and couldn't possibly be very many years old.



The flash from the camera kind of ruins the effect. In person, I think it looks real good. People I have showed it to, and told how I blued it have called me a liar. But no, I really did blue it in a metal dish of molten saltpeter on top of the kitchen stove.

Soon as it gets a little warmer and more humid, I intend to start my first rust blue.
Link Posted: 5/6/2008 4:27:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By grendelbane:
I am eagerly awaiting more information. I have a couple of guns that I am going to try to rust blue. I have a friend with tanks, and I am going to try to hot blue one also.

I have also tried nitre bluing. It works better on the old low carbon steels used prior to WWI, so it is not the best thing going today. It is, however, easy to perform. I use it all the time on screws and pins, and have used it on Gov't model grip safeties. Here is an example of one I did this winter. It was in pretty sorry shape when I received it, especially considering it is MIM, and couldn't possibly be very many years old.

i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm90/grendelbane6/GovtGripSafetyb.jpg

The flash from the camera kind of ruins the effect. In person, I think it looks real good. People I have showed it to, and told how I blued it have called me a liar. But no, I really did blue it in a metal dish of molten saltpeter on top of the kitchen stove.

Soon as it gets a little warmer and more humid, I intend to start my first rust blue.


Very nice. Looks like you're going with straight melted alkali nitrates. It works, to be sure, but my method will be the one that uses distilled water and lye too. The lye really gets the concoction going.

If you're going with melted nitrates, consider sodium nitrate instead -- it melts about 20 degrees lower temp than KNO3.

Link Posted: 5/7/2008 3:10:31 PM EST
Yes, the nitre blue process is some what limited. It requires higher temperatures than I want to see many gun parts reach. It is good for some small parts, and especially good when only a very small quantity is required.

I have a friend with tanks for hot blue, and will eventually use his to finish some of my projects.

I may start on my rust blue project this weekend. Not traditional for Gov't model pistols, but it was used during that time period for rifles and shotguns.
Link Posted: 5/8/2008 7:40:21 PM EST
ABSO-LUTELY! I'd also like to see a few pictures of the checkering process you did.

I've got an old handgun from my father that I'd like to reblue and I also have an old beretta 92SB that I'd like to cut come checkering in the front strap.


Definately have to subscribe to this thread!


Link Posted: 5/22/2008 9:16:47 PM EST
Any update on this? I am eager to see how to do this "do it yourself". How much investment would one have to make...ballpark.


Link Posted: 5/22/2008 9:22:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By leo6223:
Any update on this? I am eager to see how to do this "do it yourself". How much investment would one have to make...ballpark.




Sorry, I had a couple cases blow up and go to shit, and I'm not quite done with the metal work on the pistol yet.

Investment wise, and for pistol sized projects, I'd guess you're looking at $15 - $20 for chemicals, $35 bucks for the quarter tank from brownells, $10 for some pryodex glass vessels for rinse, etc.

It will be a few more weeks at least till I get a chance to get everything ready and to run the process.

Link Posted: 5/23/2008 4:51:27 AM EST
I would love to see the process.
Link Posted: 5/26/2008 2:38:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/26/2008 2:38:20 PM EST by leo6223]
No problem....just keep us updated. I'm looking to do a pistol and possibly another firearm.


take as may pictures as possible.......just when you thought you took too many take a few more

thanks!
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 4:42:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/27/2008 12:49:07 PM EST
I'm looking forward to it, I have a project here I need to blue, and the only place I found locally that offers bluing, sends it away anyway. They want to charge me $100 for a .22 barrel and receiver, I'll spend the $100 on my own setup if it's that simple.

I've done phosphating, if that's any helpful experience.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 6:15:48 PM EST
[crowd chant] Gonzo, Gonzo, Gonzo.....[\crowd chant]

Sorry, just very eager to see this done. I know if your like me you got eleventy-billion things on your plate, but man I can't wait for this one....I'm just hoping it's not too difficult.

Thanks

Link Posted: 6/4/2008 11:35:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 3:49:14 AM EST
Interested too.
Link Posted: 6/23/2008 4:59:19 PM EST
Interested!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 6/27/2008 9:15:44 AM EST
I'm sorry guys, still waiting to get the metal on this thing where I want it before hitting it with the bluing.
Link Posted: 7/1/2008 2:26:11 PM EST
Still interested...
Link Posted: 7/2/2008 10:18:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
I'm sorry guys, still waiting to get the metal on this thing where I want it before hitting it with the bluing.


Take your time. Its gotta be right.

Just dont forget us. Were hanging on.
Link Posted: 7/3/2008 6:54:11 PM EST
Tag for instructions
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 5:57:03 AM EST
What solution are you using, I use sodium nitrate/sodium nitrite/sodium hydroxide at I think 5%/10%/85% (I'd have to double check the portions) and have had excellent results.


Great tips on polishing as well.
Link Posted: 7/12/2008 8:28:08 AM EST
This is not hot blue. This is instead a blast from the past! While not historically accurate, I rust blued a .38 Super slide Friday night.

I polished it using 500 grit. This is what it looks like after 4 treatments.


It was in pretty decent shape, and I wanted to keep the pony on the side, so I did not polish it to anything like a mirror finish. I wanted a decent, not beautiful finish. I think I succeeded. Compare it to the Colt slide on my Caspian build. Those people at Colt do know how to polish metal!

Though labor intensive, I will try the rust blue approach on some other arms. Sometimes, the old ways are the best.


Link Posted: 7/12/2008 1:04:02 PM EST
Tag for tutorial.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:16:25 PM EST
Me too.

Have some BHPs I want to work on.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:17:01 AM EST
One advantage of hot blue over rust blue is you don't have to see your precious gun covered in a coat of rust.

Link Posted: 7/31/2008 8:15:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By grendelbane:
One advantage of hot blue over rust blue is you don't have to see your precious gun covered in a coat of rust.

i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm90/grendelbane6/rust38Sup.jpg


Holy crap
Link Posted: 7/31/2008 9:12:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/31/2008 9:23:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:

Originally Posted By grendelbane:
One advantage of hot blue over rust blue is you don't have to see your precious gun covered in a coat of rust.

i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm90/grendelbane6/rust38Sup.jpg


Holy crap!!!

Ok, please explain how that works, if you don't mind.


You use the rust blue solution in a high humidity area to rust it. Then you "card" it with stiff cardboard (scrape the rust off), and underneat will be a nice thin layer of good blackened bluing. You have to do it 5 or 6 times. Its hard with places with a lot of recessed areas.

BTY, guys, looks like I'll probably fire up the salt bath next week on my luger project to keep an eye out for an update after that.

Link Posted: 7/31/2008 9:59:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:

Originally Posted By grendelbane:
One advantage of hot blue over rust blue is you don't have to see your precious gun covered in a coat of rust.

i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm90/grendelbane6/rust38Sup.jpg


Holy crap!!!

Ok, please explain how that works, if you don't mind.


You use the rust blue solution in a high humidity area to rust it. Then you "card" it with stiff cardboard (scrape the rust off), and underneat will be a nice thin layer of good blackened bluing. You have to do it 5 or 6 times. Its hard with places with a lot of recessed areas.

BTY, guys, looks like I'll probably fire up the salt bath next week on my luger project to keep an eye out for an update after that.

-


The old timers would pee on the metal then leave them outside, in the snow, or other rust worthy place. Heavy denim or canvas can also be used to card off the rust.
Link Posted: 7/31/2008 4:52:18 PM EST
Well, I have heard of using urine, but currently I am experimenting with Pilkington's.

I am using either 0000 steel wool, or a carding brush I bought from Midway. Both seem to work equally well.

My last attempt was not that great. I may try again this weekend. My first attempt actually came out pretty good. Rust blue is nice if you want a matte finish.
Link Posted: 8/1/2008 8:02:24 AM EST
I thought hot bluing was a type of rust bluing, too.

Aren't you just putting a controlled coat of a type of rust on the surface when you hot blue?

Link Posted: 8/1/2008 8:08:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By criley:
I thought hot bluing was a type of rust bluing, too.

Aren't you just putting a controlled coat of a type of rust on the surface when you hot blue?



Black iron oxide _is_ rust, but chemically different.

Fe3O4 -- black iron oxide -- occupies the same space is the normal iron. Atoms of oxygen get in the nooks and crannies, but leave the same shape. That's why its a finish that seems to impregnate the metal itself.

Fe2O3 -- red iron oxide -- is old fashioned rust.

Hot bluing is therefore a controlled rusting reaction.

Link Posted: 8/2/2008 1:14:47 PM EST
The only good thing about August in Kentucky is that the weather can be perfect for rust blueing. Hot, and humid!

Link Posted: 8/31/2008 8:05:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2008 8:06:54 PM EST by Ekalb2000]
Update please. And all the details.
I am thinking of doing this to my Tanfoglio
I think it is one of the best looking colors ever.
Link Posted: 8/31/2008 8:35:31 PM EST
I have a great deal of pieces that need a good bluing
Link Posted: 9/5/2008 11:24:31 AM EST
Looking for an update
Link Posted: 10/21/2008 5:14:37 PM EST
A well executed rust blue is a classic technique that a lot of high end bolt gun makers offer. It is a gorgeous finish.


Link Posted: 10/26/2008 6:08:50 PM EST
Sure has been one long week.......
Link Posted: 10/28/2008 5:10:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2008 5:15:50 AM EST by 2506jet]
To help this thread with exmples, here is a Colt .22 I just did with Brownell's Classic Rust Blue that I posted over in C&R.









Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:07:54 PM EST
Hey Gonzo!


Get in here and finish what you started!
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 2:21:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By criley:
Hey Gonzo!


Get in here and finish what you started!


Funny you should mention that. Just ordered a new quarter tank from Brownells and have only a little buffing and polishing left on the Luger in terms of metal work. We're getting close. Probably the weekend of Thanksgiving is when I'll fire up the salts and put together the write up.

Sorry guys, be patient!

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:55:47 PM EST
I have done some web searching after my post today and I am really looking forward to your tutorial. Looks like it may be more than I want to venture to get into, but I am going to wait and see ...
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 6:04:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By criley:
I have done some web searching after my post today and I am really looking forward to your tutorial. Looks like it may be more than I want to venture to get into, but I am going to wait and see ...


No worries. And I am sorry it took so long. The metal on this Luger was pretty well fucked. There's still one scratch that's so deep there's nothing I can really do with it.

But be patient and I'll get it done. The Brownells stuff should get her next Tuesday, and I'll play the thanksgiving weekend with it.

Link Posted: 12/2/2008 5:18:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
The Brownells stuff should get her next Tuesday, and I'll play the thanksgiving weekend with it.



Anything to report?

Link Posted: 12/2/2008 5:18:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
The Brownells stuff should get her next Tuesday, and I'll play the thanksgiving weekend with it.



Anything to report?

Link Posted: 12/2/2008 5:18:59 PM EST
Whoa1

Hammer follow!
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