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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/24/2005 6:27:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 6:49:12 PM EDT by steve0]
Is there anyone out there in the mill/law enforcement comunity, etc that has used one of these. With the upcoming release of the PS90 I would like to hear opinions on this weapon as far as reliability, accuracy, etc. Hope I am not just fishing. Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:37:14 PM EDT
TiZZaGGed !
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:34:28 PM EDT
No one? I guess that I will have to wait for mine and put it through the paces. Or better yet, lets have a race to see who gets theirs first. I guess it is up to FN now to make the deliveries.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:36:02 PM EDT
Any word on the pricing of the semi P90? I think they're pretty interesting, and if they were comparable to a nice AR in price, I would kick around the idea of obtaining one, just for shits and giggles.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:48:10 PM EDT
Around 1400 bucks seems to be the going "pre-order" rate...

I just want one because it's a neat gun with a unique cartridge.

I just wish those damn Germans would stop with that 4.6 mm shit so we could have
plenty of NATO ammo available....eventually.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:22:33 AM EDT
Also comes with a built in reflex sight (correct me if i'm wrong). Anyone know the dimensions on this thing?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:31:50 AM EDT
I like the P90 concept and wouldnt mind having one to SBR but I think ammo cost/availability will be it's weak point. I plan to build a 7.5"bbl AR to keep me happy till the PS90 and ammo come together.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:35:36 AM EDT
I was going to post about the PS90, then I found this thread.

This looks like a very interesting firearm, although the total price of ownership is a bit out of my league right now.

Definitely post after you have had some time behind this beast. I have read many an article about this gun, and want to see if it is worth the wait or an over hyped letdown.

Does anyone from NJ know if this would be a weapon to legally own under the current laws?


^_^_^
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 6:12:49 PM EDT
A while back a cop from GA (?) posted that they have been using them. I'm fairly sure he said they had problems with the magazines cracking under rough treatment, but that overall they were good. Anyone else have a less cloudy recollection?

Cheers
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 8:39:13 PM EDT
The gun looks great and I can see spending the 1400 to get one, however ammo price and availablity is it's major down fall. Hopefully FN will be able to produce affordable ammo so they can sell more guns.

Jerad
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 11:11:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jerad:
The gun looks great and I can see spending the 1400 to get one, however ammo price and availablity is it's major down fall. Hopefully FN will be able to produce affordable ammo so they can sell more guns.

Jerad



A 5.7 round out of a 16" barrel would be wicked in Gel.

IMHO

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:50:49 PM EDT
And the Ammo at almost a buck a round OUCH. Winchester needs to make some cheap and sell it at Wal-Mart. HEHE
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:18:09 PM EDT
The FN rep that was here local showing the P90 said Fiocchi was preparing a huge importation of 5.7 ammo. Hornady will be tooling up to produce it also. The ammo and rifles are supposed to hit about the same time period.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:40:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
The FN rep that was here local showing the P90 said Fiocchi was preparing a huge importation Production of 5.7 ammo. Hornady will be tooling up to produce it also. The ammo and rifles are supposed to hit about the same time period.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:29:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 3:29:45 PM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By Jerad:
The gun looks great and I can see spending the 1400 to get one, however ammo price and availablity is it's major down fall. Hopefully FN will be able to produce affordable ammo so they can sell more guns.

Jerad



A 5.7 round out of a 16" barrel would be wicked in Gel.

IMHO




How is a non fragmenting lightweight .22 "wicked?"
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 4:44:09 PM EDT
I have yet to figure out why everyone downplays the .22 and its variants....

How many people here would stand up to be shot with a .22LR or .22magum ?

It's not a BB gun folks.... a .22 "type" bullet will kill you just as easily as any other bullet. Only difference is that
the .22 is a little smaller and doesn't fragment to your standards...

A gun is a gun.... Besides, the 5.7 is above the .22magnum... not by much, but still... it has its purpose.

People also confuse hobby with defense.... most of us here intend to buy a P90 to put into our "cool" gun catagory.... not to kill zombies and not to replace say our... ummm Glock 20 defense gun

I want one for plinking and just to have fun... not to replace the reliable shotgun with XX buckshot next to the bed or door
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 5:47:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 5:50:11 PM EDT by MP906]
We are issued P90s.

All but two entry team members are using M4s. The P90s stay in the trunk.

They are cool. But, the only advantage they have to a short AR is the high rate of full-auto fire.

The ergonomics suck horribly. Reliability is good. Accuracy is acceptable for CQB. The sights suck.

In semi?

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:21:07 PM EDT
You again. Have you ever fired a P-90. It is probably the most ergonomic shoulder fired weapon on the market. Don't like the sight? Put a EOTech on it or use the USG black reticle sight. Quit putting in your 2 cents when it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about. The thread opened with the question "Any P-90 users out there?" You are not a user so please stop wasting our time.

For everyone reading this, this charater does not use a P-90 nor do I think he works for a dept that issues P-90's. Damm posers.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:27:38 PM EDT
Actually I think an FA P90 would be a near ideal entry gun. Shouldered it's short as hell and with a high cyclic rate and low recoil coupled with hi mag capacity should be a damned nice CQB type gun. Hell the soldiers in Iraq could probably make use of them for building entry. I'd also think it would be great for armor crews. Certainly not a "one and only" type gun like an M4 but better than an MP5.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:33:19 PM EDT
Great point. Actually the Marine Corps is evaluating it as we speak for those purposes.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:19:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fnman:
You again. Have you ever fired a P-90. It is probably the most ergonomic shoulder fired weapon on the market. Don't like the sight? Put a EOTech on it or use the USG black reticle sight. Quit putting in your 2 cents when it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about. The thread opened with the question "Any P-90 users out there?" You are not a user so please stop wasting our time.

For everyone reading this, this charater does not use a P-90 nor do I think he works for a dept that issues P-90's. Damm posers.


+1

I liked the sight.
The P90 is the most ergonomic gun i have ever shot.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 8:19:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 8:24:54 PM EDT by DmL5]
MP906,

You have a lot of nerve, after what happened in your last thread. The statement that the P-90 ergonomics "suck horribly" really cost you your credibility. Anyone I have ever heard from has said the exact opposite, take JBowles' post.

And what more does the P-90 need going for it against a short AR? (I assume you're talking lethality) As you said, the P-90 has a high ROF and this makes up entirely for any potential lethality problems. How about a 1-second full auto squeeze of the P-90's trigger? At 900 RPM that will put 15 rounds into your target. Sure, the civilian version is semi only, but it also has a longer barrel which brings an increase of 400 fps.


-DmL
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:27:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 6:35:07 AM EDT by MP906]
Believe what you want. I'm just giving one users opinion, and that of 80% of the operators on my team. I don't need to defend my credibility, go to the Missouri home page to verify that. Or, just email CMMG. Our team was so desperate for ammo, we had to beg them to donate a case for training.

Fnrep, are you the dealer that got raided by the ATF here in MO shortly after we got out P90s from you? Just curious.

The P90s ergonomics are not good at all. Let me be more specific:

1. The trigger guard/grip thingy- is an unsafe, awckward design. You can't keep your finger out of the trigger guard effectively. The trigger guard doubles as a forward grip for your weak hand. Your weak hand thumb is IN the trigger guard. This may not matter if you are shooting at the range, but this is unsafe for real world use. Not good when you are "nut to butt" in the stack.

2. Safety- anyone that has used that stupid, awckward "wheel-spin" thing knows it is horrible!

3. Sights- even using Eotechs, the POA/POI is too far off in CQB. The sight just sits way too far above the barrel. The gun is just begging to take out a hostage. Again, probably fine for range plinking.

4. mags- top loading design- sure it is "cool", but it is unfamiliar with every other weapon system we use.

5. ammo- the FN rep BS'ed us on this YEARS ago, saying the price would drop any day now.

6. Bullpup design- enough said


But, admitedly, if I had the extra $$$, I'd get one just as a novelty, akin to the 31rd scherer Glock mag I have...range use only.


Again, this is just one users opinion. I'm not sure why everyone gets so defensive about a negative review of the P90, especially whenthey have either: 1. never fired it, or 2. fired one mag at a machine gun shoot.

I understand Fnman's attitude. He, who magically know more about my department and our weapons than I do, probably has stock in the successful selling of the PS90 to civilians.







Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:40:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 9:41:20 AM EDT by DmL5]
MP906,

Since when are you part of "the team"? You didn't claim to be last time this came up. As I said last time, your "unbiased review" is more a collection of personal nitpicks than actual problems with the weapon. Remember this article from Houston, TX police department? If ammo availability was so terribly bad, the weapon wouldn't be in use with several dozen US police departments. Fnman already told you he isn't an FN rep.


Your weak hand thumb is IN the trigger guard.


Wrapped around the front handgrip. It is nowhere near the trigger and I'm having a hard time seeing how it is unsafe. I've never heard the weapon to be unsafe.



2. Safety- anyone that has used that stupid, awckward "wheel-spin" thing knows it is horrible!


I have never heard a single comment about the safety being hard to use.



3. Sights- even using Eotechs, the POA/POI is too far off in CQB. The sight just sits way too far above the barrel.


Again, same.



4. mags- top loading design- sure it is "cool", but it is unfamiliar with every other weapon system we use.


The P-90 magazine brings enough advances over other mags that "familiarity" takes a back seat. The weapon owes its compactness and capacity to the magazine and its position.



6. Bullpup design- enough said


Not enough said. The P-90 design isn't traditional bullpup at all. The magazine is on the top where it is easy to remove, and the weapon is fully ambidextrous. Really, are you just making these up? It is really hard to take your review (a list of cons) as unbiased when any PD's I have heard from (not to mention the SS) are happy with it.


-DmL
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:49:09 AM EDT



Not too long ago. I'm on the entry team.

And what is your experience with the weapon sir? Other than anecdotal accounts from other users.


Ok, the P90 is the greatest weapon ever. There.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:56:50 AM EDT
lol.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:46:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 10:49:14 AM EDT by pillbox]
"unfamiliar with every other weapon system we use. " lol that almost sounds like special olympics instead of special weapons ....everbody that ever carried a M14, when they were handed a M16 for the first time went "what the hell is this", but some how (lol) they, and those after them learned to use it. (gee I cant use both a AR15 and a remington 870..their manual of arms is just too diffrent and I cant get them big fat red shells in the AR mag without a hammer...therefore I will say its too slow to load)
There is hardly anything from a muzzleloader to a ma duece that cant be learn'ded even by a desk jockey.

And yes, I too remember you saying that your were NOT on the team.....
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 12:28:17 PM EDT
MP906,

You can have your opinion, and dislike the weapon as much as you want. You can also claim that your "list of cons" isn't the result of a bias. But go ahead and read the HPD article -- the EOtech worked just fine for them. The "awkward safety device" certainly didn't convince the US Secret Service that the P-90 is "only good on the range".

As for my experience, I am pitting the relayed experience of several SWAT members (such as the article from HPD) as well as the opinions of Secret Service agents against your "review". Give the weapon a chance -- it doesn't seem like you have thus far.


-DmL
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:36:26 PM EDT
Less bitching, more P90's!



/and information.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:22:38 PM EDT
I just called Jeff at CMMG and he said they never donated a case of ammo to MHP. You are a big fat liar Please stop posting. You really are starting to sound like a butt head.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:23:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 6:24:36 PM EDT by fnman]

Originally Posted By MP906:
Believe what you want. I'm just giving one users opinion, and that of 80% of the operators on my team. I don't need to defend my credibility, go to the Missouri home page to verify that. Or, just email CMMG. Our team was so desperate for ammo, we had to beg them to donate a case for training.
Fnrep, are you the dealer that got raided by the ATF here in MO shortly after we got out P90s from you? Just curious.

The P90s ergonomics are not good at all. Let me be more specific:

1. The trigger guard/grip thingy- is an unsafe, awckward design. You can't keep your finger out of the trigger guard effectively. The trigger guard doubles as a forward grip for your weak hand. Your weak hand thumb is IN the trigger guard. This may not matter if you are shooting at the range, but this is unsafe for real world use. Not good when you are "nut to butt" in the stack.

2. Safety- anyone that has used that stupid, awckward "wheel-spin" thing knows it is horrible!

3. Sights- even using Eotechs, the POA/POI is too far off in CQB. The sight just sits way too far above the barrel. The gun is just begging to take out a hostage. Again, probably fine for range plinking.

4. mags- top loading design- sure it is "cool", but it is unfamiliar with every other weapon system we use.

5. ammo- the FN rep BS'ed us on this YEARS ago, saying the price would drop any day now.

6. Bullpup design- enough said


But, admitedly, if I had the extra $$$, I'd get one just as a novelty, akin to the 31rd scherer Glock mag I have...range use only.


Again, this is just one users opinion. I'm not sure why everyone gets so defensive about a negative review of the P90, especially whenthey have either: 1. never fired it, or 2. fired one mag at a machine gun shoot.

I understand Fnman's attitude. He, who magically know more about my department and our weapons than I do, probably has stock in the successful selling of the PS90 to civilians.


I just called Jeff at CMMG and he said they never donated a case of ammo to MHP. You are a big fat liar Please stop posting. You really are starting to sound like a butt head.








Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:30:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fnman:
I just called Jeff at CMMG and he said they never donated a case of ammo to MHP. You are a big fat liar Please stop posting. You really are starting to sound like a butt head.




OWNED

I thought that sounded fishy

Why buy a gun you cant afford ammo for and don't use anyways?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:34:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 7:11:36 PM EDT by MP906]
FNman, settle down. I'm not big and fat, or a liar. You seem like you have a few screws loose or something. Are you posting this from prison? Or are you and JBowles like 13 years old? I've never heard an adult call someone a "big fat liar." My 6 year old niece says stuff like that though. And "OWNED" is some thing that teenage boys say on the internet.

I was shooting at CMMG shoots before they were even "CMMG" shoots. It is because of looney noobs like you that I stopped going. It was not CMMG, it was an FN-rep that donated the ammo at the Columbia SWAT match. CMMG was there. Sorry for the confusion. My bad. There is no conspiracy to harm the sale of the PS90 here. I could care less. I'm just giving what the author of the thread asked for.

One more comment for the non-13 yr. old trolls on here:

Even though the P90 is compact, it is still a bullpup. Most of the weapon is behind the grip. If you shoot w/ body armor and square up on your target, the LOP is actually TOO LONG. For example, I use the M4 stock in the fully closed position. The P90 LOP is considerably longer than this, like the second or third notch on a M4 stock. And the P90 is not adjustable. Just FYI, as this is another one of my "BIASED, LIAR" opinions.

And another: the thumbhole grip thingy is actually almost completely horizontal. It looks neat, but is akin to a shotgun grip and will wear your wrist down in no time. Can you say tendonitis?






Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:23:09 PM EDT
Okay MP906 we don't need to hear any more.


-DmL
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:40:11 PM EDT

Ha. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Hell, I was a Mod on here before I left for Military leave. That was before you were even a member.

Unfortunately, it seems like the General Discussions crowd has infected this section as well.



Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:45:22 PM EDT
I tagged this thread because I have a PS90 on pre-order and I am curious just like the guy that started this thread...

All I can say is that this back and forth garbage is hijacking a potentially useful thread.

There are people on arfcom that like me and some that don't... At this point I could care less, but I do suggest that you guys take this bickering elsewhere.

Would you want someone to trash your thread like this ?


Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:48:58 PM EDT

bones, good point.

But, it seems like one can't provide any negative feedback whatsoever on the P90 or you will be trolled and flamed into oblivion.

I'd hate to see someone blow $1500 on a PS90 onlt to be dissapointed that it was not the "perfect" CQB weapon the clueless folks on ARFCOM said it was.

Later
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:55:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 7:55:37 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Personal attacks. This is a technical forum, and posts are expected to be civil.
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