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Posted: 2/11/2010 11:18:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2010 1:13:18 PM EDT by Snopczynski]
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 2:03:48 PM EDT
And how exactly do they know the thieves spent 5 hours trying to open the safe?  Sounds like the guy needs a good alarm system.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 2:30:21 PM EDT
Silly thieves. With one $200 7.5 electric angle grinder from any HomeDepot  they could have cut the whole side completely out in 15-20 minutes or so.

Well under 10 minutes with a demolition saw.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 2:38:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2010 2:44:31 PM EDT by Snopczynski]
The owner walked in on them, and they were arrested on site. So they told the police how long they had been there.

Usually thieves dont have those kinds of tools because they would usually pawn them for drug money.
Link Posted: 2/11/2010 4:52:44 PM EDT
If i would have walked in on that I would have been tempted to open the safe and use the contents on the bastards
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 4:32:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2010 4:32:41 AM EDT by Shermantor-AR15]
This was a liberty safe, so the "monster mech" is that in all their safes or just the upper end?  I'm wondering because I got a Fatboy a few months ago.

Umm on the website It says this:
"Liberty's FATBOY .... with Liberty's all new DX-90 MONSTER MECH"

So I wonder if mine has it or not, I may have to call them and ask?
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 6:08:14 AM EDT
It probably has it. You can extend the bolts out on it with the door open, if you cant push them back in when they are out, then it has it.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 5:31:28 AM EDT
I believe anything Franklin series and above has the Monster Mech.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 6:47:49 AM EDT
Yep.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 10:33:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 10:34:29 AM EDT by 45stops-em-quick]
Originally Posted By fearme:
Silly thieves. With one $200 7.5 electric angle grinder from any HomeDepot  they could have cut the whole side completely out in 15-20 minutes or so.

Well under 10 minutes with a demolition saw.


+1 and with that partner saw, you could cut that safe in half and just knock the top half off.  Shitty sheetmetal is still shitty sheetmetal.  All their website says is 1.5" composite door, I don't see anything about the thickness of actual plate of steel used(if any plate is used), and some monster handle.  And yeah anybody more than a halfass junkie would buy the Hilti that you speak of, but even a junkie can afford a $40 Ryobi, and be in and out in much less than 5 hours.

If this story about some idiots playing with a sheetmetal box for 5 hours makes someone feel better about their purchase, then good for them.  It shouldn't be used to illustrate real security.  Those "theives" used no bar bigger than maybe 3'.  Get a sawzall or grinder, and a couple of 6 foot slate bars, and then see how long it takes.

As far as the sales pitch "Junkie's won't have those kind of tools, they'd pawn them for drug money."   That's a Bosch hammer drill in the picture, and costs as much(about $150) as a good angle grinder if not more.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 10:50:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 10:53:58 AM EDT by TZapp]
Originally Posted By 45stops-em-quick:
Originally Posted By fearme:
Silly thieves. With one $200 7.5 electric angle grinder from any HomeDepot  they could have cut the whole side completely out in 15-20 minutes or so.

Well under 10 minutes with a demolition saw.


+1 and with that partner saw, you could cut that safe in half and just knock the top half off.  Shitty sheetmetal is still shitty sheetmetal.  All their website says is 1.5" composite door, I don't see anything about the thickness of actual plate of steel used(if any plate is used), and some monster handle.  And yeah anybody more than a halfass junkie would buy the Hilti that you speak of, but even a junkie can afford a $40 Ryobi, and be in and out in much less than 5 hours.

If this story about some idiots playing with a sheetmetal box for 5 hours makes someone feel better about their purchase, then good for them.  It shouldn't be used to illustrate real security.  Those "theives" used no bar bigger than maybe 3'.  Get a sawzall or grinder, and a couple of 6 foot slate bars, and then see how long it takes.

As far as the sales pitch "Junkie's won't have those kind of tools, they'd pawn them for drug money."   That's a Bosch hammer drill in the picture, and costs as much(about $150) as a good angle grinder if not more.


The stuff in the photo probably belonged to the homeowner that they were trying to rob.


ETA:Im a firm believer that the safe location is equally as important as the level of security you choose. If you have the safe in a very tight area, the ease of breaking in becomes less appealing. Most junkies are after a quick and easy buck.

Link Posted: 2/13/2010 11:07:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 45stops-em-quick:
Originally Posted By fearme:
Silly thieves. With one $200 7.5 electric angle grinder from any HomeDepot  they could have cut the whole side completely out in 15-20 minutes or so.

Well under 10 minutes with a demolition saw.


+1 and with that partner saw, you could cut that safe in half and just knock the top half off.  Shitty sheetmetal is still shitty sheetmetal.  All their website says is 1.5" composite door, I don't see anything about the thickness of actual plate of steel used(if any plate is used), and some monster handle.  And yeah anybody more than a halfass junkie would buy the Hilti that you speak of, but even a junkie can afford a $40 Ryobi, and be in and out in much less than 5 hours.

If this story about some idiots playing with a sheetmetal box for 5 hours makes someone feel better about their purchase, then good for them.  It shouldn't be used to illustrate real security.  Those "theives" used no bar bigger than maybe 3'.  Get a sawzall or grinder, and a couple of 6 foot slate bars, and then see how long it takes.

As far as the sales pitch "Junkie's won't have those kind of tools, they'd pawn them for drug money."   That's a Bosch hammer drill in the picture, and costs as much(about $150) as a good angle grinder if not more.


I see attempted break-ins and succesful break-ins all the time. The body on that safe in the article is 3/16"! Its alot harder to cut the top off that than you think. Especially with any tool they had there. My boss has been selling safes for 23 years, and he has never seen a safe in our area succesfully cut open with a saw or a torch. You can't pry the door off the safe in that article, no matter what bar you had. The bolt coverage, body thickness, body welding, and internal mechanism in the door is too well done. The way to break into it would be to cut it, and its harder to do than you guys think it is. I have pried open and broken into quite a few safes, and its not an easy thing to do on a $4,800.00 Liberty Presidential.

Those tools the thieves used, were already there at the job site.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 12:11:15 PM EDT
I gotta post a few angle-grinder w/ cutoff wheel vs sheetmetal videos.....Like a big smoking tuna can.

But yeah, for your average crackheads without their own tools or brains it'd be fine. Considering that most home burglaries are just that, someone already tweaked out looking for quick stuff to grab.

Just don't fool yourselves that a semi-professional wouldn't be through that in minutes. And I'm not talking about the guys from the movie Heat.... Two dudes with an angle grinder and a bag of wheels.... (i.e. don't put anything really valuable like money/gold/jewelry in an RSC)....

All the focus on boltwork and relockers(and cost) just doesn't make sense to me in a sheetmetal box...... But it will keep people stupid enough to focus on the door busy enough...


Link Posted: 2/13/2010 3:02:15 PM EDT
Unfortunately, I had a fire two weeks ago at my home and my gun safe (a Fort Knox top of the line) was right smack in the middle of it.  The dial was completely melted and fused to the front of the safe.  Fort Knox is replacing the safe under warranty and authorized us to open the safe without trying to salvage it.  It took us 15 minutes with a gas powered saw to cut through the 5/8" solid steel outer door panel and operate the locking mechanism by hand to open the safe.  The whole process reminded me just how easy it is to open any residential safe with the right tool and without regard to making some noise.  Common thieves may not have the tools (for god's sake if you're a contractor don't store the "right tools" any where near your safe) but someone who knows what you have and comes prepared can get in easily.  If you live in any sort of remote area or even several hundred yards from the closes neighbor noise isn't going to be an issue either.  Just something to consider!!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 3:27:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 3:31:39 PM EDT by 45stops-em-quick]
If it's 3/16"(7ga) on the sides, then it's the same the same thickness as a Sturdy, and for all the composite this and multiple bolts that, I'll bet that it doesn't have a front door plate that's greater than 5/16".  The Sturdy is much cheaper and has ceramic wool fire protection instead of shitrock.  Those safes look nice, and do offer enough protection for a junkie style smash and grab, but as fearme stated, a couple of skels who've been around the block a few times would be in to any typical "gunsafe" in a short amount of time.

ETA Spending more money than a certain point won't buy more protection, it's just buying you nicer carpeting, shiny locks, etc.  In my opinion, real burgulary protection starts at B-rate construction, and very few gunsafe manufacturers offer that, and fire protection is a whole nother story.  Let's face it, location in the structure will determine how well any fire protection holds up.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 5:01:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2010 11:22:58 AM EDT by Snopczynski]
Originally Posted By 45stops-em-quick:
If it's 3/16"(7ga) on the sides, then it's the same the same thickness as a Sturdy, and for all the composite this and multiple bolts that, I'll bet that it doesn't have a front door plate that's greater than 5/16".  The Sturdy is much cheaper and has ceramic wool fire protection instead of shitrock.  Those safes look nice, and do offer enough protection for a junkie style smash and grab, but as fearme stated, a couple of skels who've been around the block a few times would be in to any typical "gunsafe" in a short amount of time.

ETA Spending more money than a certain point won't buy more protection, it's just buying you nicer carpeting, shiny locks, etc.  In my opinion, real burgulary protection starts at B-rate construction, and very few gunsafe manufacturers offer that, and fire protection is a whole nother story.  Let's face it, location in the structure will determine how well any fire protection holds up.


I think a sturdy can hold up just as well as a presidential in most attacks on the door.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 6:46:45 PM EDT
Although I disagree with the "you get what you pay for" in terms of safes since I can point out many VERY expensive 'safes' that are little more than shiny sheetmetal boxes, often unrated, with fancy interiors. Truth be told though that a real safe will be very expensive just due to the materials needed....

As far as Liberty or brand XXX vs. Sturdy, I'd have to agree that the Liberty is at least UL RSC rated whereas the Sturdy line is not. Not saying the RSC threshold is much but it's something and at least lets you know it's been tested by a third party. Something about Sturdy's video's and marketing material they have on their website just rub me the wrong way....
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 6:49:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 45stops-em-quick:
If it's 3/16"(7ga) on the sides, then it's the same the same thickness as a Sturdy, and for all the composite this and multiple bolts that, I'll bet that it doesn't have a front door plate that's greater than 5/16".  The Sturdy is much cheaper and has ceramic wool fire protection instead of shitrock.  Those safes look nice, and do offer enough protection for a junkie style smash and grab, but as fearme stated, a couple of skels who've been around the block a few times would be in to any typical "gunsafe" in a short amount of time.

ETA Spending more money than a certain point won't buy more protection, it's just buying you nicer carpeting, shiny locks, etc.  In my opinion, real burgulary protection starts at B-rate construction, and very few gunsafe manufacturers offer that, and fire protection is a whole nother story.  Let's face it, location in the structure will determine how well any fire protection holds up.


This is the reason a lot of people use home security systems in conjunction with safes. If a professional thief breaks into a home with a home security systems, he will likely leave before he could saw through the safe with a grinder or gas powered saw. There isn't a safe made that someone couldn't get into if given enough uninhibited time. We are talking about a home burglary, and no one is going to hang around for the amount time it takes to get into a decent safe.

Link Posted: 2/13/2010 8:45:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2010 11:24:06 AM EDT by Snopczynski]
A sturdy would also hold up well to this kind of attack.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 9:30:15 PM EDT
All the UL tag proves is standardized attacks were performed in a  documented procedure by a third party. Of course in the real world there will be better and worse outcomes. But it gives you a basis of what performance you might expect under the fancy crinkle paint finish and 21 gleaming 'solid' locking bars.

Relying on the local safe-guy's recommendation is akin to asking the car salesman what he thinks is the best car.... Now there are a few intelligent and honest car salesmen that might really know the internals and reliability of each model. There are also clueless ones. There are ones who believe what they read in the brochures. There are also ones working on commission that might not have the buyer's best interest in mind.

In the end safes are really pretty simple things... Not hard to figure out if you've got all the information on it's construction.

What's a 8m10 UL rating? Never seen that one..... TLTR-60x6 is the sort of thing I've seen...

Link Posted: 2/13/2010 11:40:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 11:42:15 PM EDT by Snopczynski]
You see an 8M10 on a lot of your standard Liberty, browning, champion, etc.......

UL attacks usually focus on the lock and mechanism parts of the doors. THey should focus on the body, the whole door, the mechanism, and the lock.

It is simply amazing how customers and skeptics react to "US" Sales people. However, you show them a safe thats been pried open in person, and they turn into an entirely different customer. We don't work on commision at my shop, and I dont really know of any safe only shops that do work on commision. I do know that about every customer I approach, or talk to thinks I am on comission. I have even asked some people if I act like I am on comission, and they have said "No".

So I think customers come into sales situations with a lot of pre-concieved notions or expectations that they have no grounds to even really believe to be true. Safe sales people are not car salesman (used or new, to which there is no difference). If I sell you a safe, and its the right size so you don't ever grow out of it. You have no reason to ever come back to me and buy another safe. Its a one time purchase that you make, and keep the product for the rest of your life. Hell, you even pass it down to your kids, and it can even make it to grandkids, etc.... The point is, alot of you guys go out and buy $35K-$50K trucks and get a new one every 4-7 years on average. However, you come into my shop, want to lock up $10K in guns, irreplaceable items, heirlooms, deeds, titles, jewelry, and you usually cant justify spending more than $1,400.00 on average. Then, almost always buy a safe that is barely big enough for what you have, and not big enough for what you WILL have. You will do whatever you can to get the bare minimum of what is intermediate fire, and security protection. Knowing the whole time, you just spent as much on a safe as the cost of 1 Decent AR15 Rifle, to which you usually have at least 2 or 3 of. Does it make sense, NO.

I push fire and security in this forum to you guys as a fellow member who knows about safes. I see break-ins, fires, stolen safes, attempted break-ins, home invasions, and safe issues on a monthly, weekly, and even a daily basis. I have nothing to gain by sharing my knowledge with you. Almost all of you will never buy a safe from me, as you are nowhere near where I live or work. Take this information and make good decisions about the product you buy.
Link Posted: 2/14/2010 9:30:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2010 9:31:42 PM EDT by Snopczynski]
I am gonna add this on too. Just because you live near a fire department, doesn't mean your safe is going to be ok. It also doesn't mean your house wont burn to the ground. My Uncle is a LT. and my cousins are full time FF in east pierce county here where I live.

Facts: If the Fire department shows up at your house and ammo is going off, they will not go inside, or even near it. They are gonna shoot water on it from the street, and that's it. House fires start out around 1000-1100 degrees. Once the windows break, the house fires get up to 1600-1700 degrees.

Most gun safes are tested at 1200-1400 degrees on average. The test is deemed over when the inside of the safe reaches 350 degrees. That's the point that paper starts to char, and things pretty much are in the stages of being ruined from the heat in the safe.  A 30 minute rated safe tested at 1200 degrees will not last even close to 1/2 the 30 minute time in a 1700 degree environment. I don't see safes rated under 60 minutes ever protect the contents in a house fire environment. They are usually ruined inside if they were surrounded by flames. The safe also sits in the charred timber and embers from the fire as it is being put out. The temps inside the safe continue to climb from the coles surrounding it. A lot of the times, it becomes evident that the safe may have survived a fire, but sitting in the heated coles for hours afterwards causes the safe to be cooked and ruins the inside. Safes also need to be opened immediately after a fire. Everything inside needs to be removed, wiped down, and thoroughly cleaned, or the contents will corrode and rust.

There are also plenty of companies that make safes that don't actually fire test them at all, and they put fire ratings on them based on their construction compared to other "like" models and their construction. There are companies that put pyro probes on the floor of safes where it is coolest during the test. Also they like to gradually heat the furnace up over the course of the test to the 1000+ degree mark by the end of the test (instead of within the first 10 minutes). Another big problem is stitch welded bodies. In a fire, they will heat up and split apart because they don't have a continuously welded seam on them. This allows the heat to come directly into the safe. I have seen a 75 minute rated well known safe with a stitch welded body fail a fire test in 26 minutes because of this. Good fire rated safes should have a continuously welded body on the inside and the outside of the seams.

So, living within a .5 mile of a fire station doesn't keep you in the clear. Having a 0-45 minute fire rated safe doesn't keep you in the clear. You have to talk to safe professionals and get facts on how these safes are built and how they fire test them. It is only going to help you guys buy the proper safe in the long run.
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 7:15:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By searchin4shacks:
Unfortunately, I had a fire two weeks ago at my home and my gun safe (a Fort Knox top of the line) was right smack in the middle of it.  The dial was completely melted and fused to the front of the safe.  Fort Knox is replacing the safe under warranty and authorized us to open the safe without trying to salvage it.  It took us 15 minutes with a gas powered saw to cut through the 5/8" solid steel outer door panel and operate the locking mechanism by hand to open the safe.  The whole process reminded me just how easy it is to open any residential safe with the right tool and without regard to making some noise.  Common thieves may not have the tools (for god's sake if you're a contractor don't store the "right tools" any where near your safe) but someone who knows what you have and comes prepared can get in easily.  If you live in any sort of remote area or even several hundred yards from the closes neighbor noise isn't going to be an issue either.  Just something to consider!!!!!!


I have a Ft. Knox safe (middle of the road model) as well and I am curious how the contents of your safe fared from the fire outside.  Can you post some pics of the outside and what it looked like after you had to cut it open?  Have you gotten the replacement safe yet?  Just curious how quickly the warranty was covered.

Thanks,

Indy
Link Posted: 2/16/2010 11:46:02 AM EDT
I got a kick out of that ad when I saw it two weeks ago. Glad they didn't get in.

I still remember when the two liberty dealers got into the P-50 at the Liberty dealer meeting a few years ago. All they use where two crow bars, took all of 6 minutes.

Is Liberty still doing only 3 3" welds on the back of the safe? If they are, just need to start hitting the back corners of the safe and you are in.
Link Posted: 2/16/2010 1:49:03 PM EDT
The website that's hosting this "story" is just liberty's website with the dealer name at the top.  Seems like Liberty's the only "safe" to buy.  I for one am glad it's not.
Link Posted: 2/16/2010 2:06:14 PM EDT
That's of our website (all the liberty dealers are linked). We carry 7 lines of safes here at our shop. So liberty isn't the only one. Not sure why that matters though.

Liberty continously welds the bodies on the inside and outside of the box now.

The safe they pried open at the dealer forum was a Lincoln, the guys who did it worked here.
Link Posted: 2/17/2010 4:21:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Snopczynski:
That's of our website (all the liberty dealers are linked). We carry 7 lines of safes here at our shop. So liberty isn't the only one. Not sure why that matters though.

Liberty continously welds the bodies on the inside and outside of the box now.

The safe they pried open at the dealer forum was a Lincoln, the guys who did it worked here.


Are you sure it wasnt the colonial they preied open? The reason i ask is thats what you told me days ago in an IM.



Link Posted: 2/17/2010 7:08:50 AM EDT
No, thats not what I told you in the IM.
Link Posted: 2/17/2010 9:14:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2010 9:22:54 AM EDT by TZapp]
Originally Posted By Snopczynski:
No, thats not what I told you in the IM.


Well lets get it sorted out then, I just checked my IM again and it appears to be exactly what you told me.

ETA: Maybe im thinking of the video thread showing a liberty safe being pried open ?

Link Posted: 2/17/2010 9:50:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TZapp:
Originally Posted By Snopczynski:
No, thats not what I told you in the IM.


Well lets get it sorted out then, I just checked my IM again and it appears to be exactly what you told me.

ETA: Maybe im thinking of the video thread showing a liberty safe being pried open ?



The safe in the video on youtube is a liberty. One I was talking about (and got the model wrong on) happen at a dealer meeting.
Link Posted: 2/17/2010 10:09:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gary_631:
Originally Posted By TZapp:
Originally Posted By Snopczynski:
No, thats not what I told you in the IM.


Well lets get it sorted out then, I just checked my IM again and it appears to be exactly what you told me.

ETA: Maybe im thinking of the video thread showing a liberty safe being pried open ?



The safe in the video on youtube is a liberty. One I was talking about (and got the model wrong on) happen at a dealer meeting.


so the one in the Youtube video was a colonial?  


Link Posted: 2/17/2010 10:15:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2010 10:17:41 AM EDT by TZapp]
OK, i have been corrected in IM. I was thinking of the video, and the lincoln was in the dealer forums. I made a mistake and stand corrected. thanks for the IM clearing it up for me

Peace

ETA: spelling correction
Link Posted: 2/17/2010 12:49:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2010 1:07:46 PM EDT by searchin4shacks]
Finally have some pics. to post of my recent safe fire.  





As for damage, If I would have opened the safe within 24 hours, it would have been limited to some minor smoke damage.  Without boring you with the details, it took about 6 days before I could get it opened.  The result was rust damage to many of the guns, all will operate fine, but the value was reduced.  If I could give anyone advice who has a safe involved in a fire, it would be get it open fast!!!!
Link Posted: 2/17/2010 1:20:56 PM EDT
What knox was that.  I have to say I was expecting much better results from the look of the rest of the room, but then again maybe I am expecting to much from a safe.  

Could you provide any additional info,  such as how long the fire was burning, estimate?  How long before they got it put out ect ect.

Thanks RS

Im sure a lot of people here are interested.
Link Posted: 2/17/2010 2:11:00 PM EDT
I keep trying to stress, at least 60 minutes of rating or more for fire. It doesn't matter how close the fire department is, a safe can be damaged inside if it is not well rated, and the flames surround it. That fire got hot, you can see his dial lock melted. That safe was also on a concrete floor as well. If I had to make a guess at what that is for a rating. I would say its about a 15 year old safe, and a 30-45 minute fire rating. Now lets see what he says it is.

Buy as much fire protection as you can afford.
Link Posted: 2/17/2010 2:55:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2010 3:07:04 PM EDT by searchin4shacks]
Yes, the safe was about 10 to 15 years old.  I'm not positive of the fire rating, I believe the paperwork just says "fire rated 1200 degrees"  The pictures were taken after the drywall had been removed and a partial clean up made.  Funny you guys are talking about how close the fire department can be.  In this case, the fire department was approx. 1/4 mile from the house maybe closer.  It obviously got very hot very fast from the looks of the dial.  Thank god none of my valuable guns were stored in this safe, I feel very lucky all and all.  The new safe is UL listed at 1680 degrees for 90 min.  BTW, most of the damage to the inside was the result of water and / or steam penetration

Link Posted: 2/17/2010 3:09:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2010 3:11:05 PM EDT by Snopczynski]
You can tell that safe you had was not more than 45 minutes of fire rating because it has black painted steel sidewalls on the inside of it. I also knew how old it was because of the carpeted interior and shelf design. Back in the day, they didn't make anything very well fire rated. The biggest ratings in that era were about 45 minutes. Fire protection has come a long way since then. The door seals are better now on most products, the safe is covered on all sides with sheetrock panels, and they are packed with more insulation as well. The cool thing about the old safes like that one, was the extreme security. They almost always had 3/16"-1/4" thick steel bodies and upwards of 3/8"-1/2" thick plate doors on them.
Link Posted: 2/18/2010 4:29:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2010 4:38:33 AM EDT by searchin4shacks]
I've got one more pic. for those that are interested.  The door outside panel thickness was 3/8" solid steel.  It also had a 10gauge inside liner.

Link Posted: 2/18/2010 5:03:38 AM EDT
With the proper tool,  How long did it take to get in?
Link Posted: 2/18/2010 6:13:32 AM EDT
15 minutes
Link Posted: 2/18/2010 12:16:23 PM EDT



Originally Posted By searchin4shacks:


Finally have some pics. to post of my recent safe fire.  

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9729/burnedsafe.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6276/burnedsafedial.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2423/cuttingsafeopen.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9572/insideofsafe.jpg



As for damage, If I would have opened the safe within 24 hours, it would have been limited to some minor smoke damage.  Without boring you with the details, it took about 6 days before I could get it opened.  The result was rust damage to many of the guns, all will operate fine, but the value was reduced.  If I could give anyone advice who has a safe involved in a fire, it would be get it open fast!!!!
I wonder if those cotton gun sock would have saved the guns from rust, like they advertise.





 
Link Posted: 2/18/2010 12:59:52 PM EDT
I think cotton would make it worse. The silicone ones might help? And thoughts?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/18/2010 1:19:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2010 1:21:26 PM EDT by TZapp]
Im thinking a good coat of Eezox would have done the trick too. I use it on all of my guns when i store them. I just give them a quick wipe down before i shoot. Im sure the cotton or silicon socks couldnt have been a bad thing though. Thanks for posting the pics of your burned safe. Its real world evidence that helps people make informed decisions. Im not digging the videos we have been seeing, because those are staged, and alot of info is being withheld from the viewers like the make, model, and year the safe was made. The videos are playing on peoples fears.
Link Posted: 2/18/2010 2:44:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2010 2:56:47 PM EDT by Snopczynski]
Don't ever use just a cotton gun sock. It has to be a silicone treated sock, and it would have made a difference if they had been used. I have seen what those things can do, and it is worth it.

I keep hearing "That video plays on peoples fears" in this forum. Again I will tell you guys that the video I showed you in that other thread was made after SEVERAL safes in the medford, OR. area had been pried open about 3 holiday seasons ago. They made the video to show how easy it was to pry entry level safes open with simple tools. The video is based on a real world situation that was happening to people bigger than life. So keep that in mind, you get what you pay for when you buy a safe. I would expect people who dont work in the security industry to say something like that. However, the truth is I see everything that happens to safes. You guys aren't as safe as you always think you are with all the stipulations and situations you have surrounding yourselves explaining how, why, who, or what can't happen to you.

Link Posted: 2/18/2010 4:07:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2010 4:12:02 PM EDT by TZapp]
Originally Posted By Snopczynski:
Don't ever use just a cotton gun sock. It has to be a silicone treated sock, and it would have made a difference if they had been used. I have seen what those things can do, and it is worth it.

I keep hearing "That video plays on peoples fears" in this forum. Again I will tell you guys that the video I showed you in that other thread was made after SEVERAL safes in the medford, OR. area had been pried open about 3 holiday seasons ago. They made the video to show how easy it was to pry entry level safes open with simple tools. The video is based on a real world situation that was happening to people bigger than life. So keep that in mind, you get what you pay for when you buy a safe. I would expect people who dont work in the security industry to say something like that. However, the truth is I see everything that happens to safes. You guys aren't as safe as you always think you are with all the stipulations and situations you have surrounding yourselves explaining how, why, who, or what can't happen to you.



So why not tell all the info on the safe then?

ETA: If it was anything other than a sales pitch it would have included all the info on the safe so the viewers could make an informed decision about what to buy. Just saying "entry level" doesnt mean shit. It could have been an entry level safe 20 years ago. You should stop throwong your experience in safes and others lack of experience in safes out there when it comes to anything other than facts about safes. The video was playing on peoples fears, it doesnt take a safe expert to see that.

Link Posted: 2/18/2010 4:45:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2010 4:49:57 PM EDT by Snopczynski]
Just about every entry level safe on the market is built like the safe in the video. The idea is to stay away from all them. If I tell you about one safe, then you stray from that one, and just head towards another manufacturers brand that's built the same way. The idea is to stay away from all of them. The video does not play on peoples fears because every person who sees it, seems to act the same way you are. The thing that changes their minds when they come in my shop is when they see the pried open safe I have in the showroom. I did include info on the safe that was pried open. 12 ga body, ended sheet metal door frame, one side locking bolt coverage, composite sheetrock door construction, 30 min fire rating, etc.... It has been all over this forum about what to look for, and what not too look for, what is strong, and what is well fire rated, as well as what has a good warranty and what doesn't. So you cant tell me you don't know what you should be looking for and what you don't want in a safe.

Everyone makes excuses, the hardest guys to show anything or tell anything to is usually guys like the ones all over this forum. The way they see the light is when seeing something in person. Like touching the thin steel on a un-supported door frame, seeing how you can bend a composite sheetrock door by bracing it with your foot and pulling at the top, etc......

Link Posted: 2/18/2010 5:33:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2010 5:52:24 PM EDT by TZapp]
Originally Posted By Snopczynski:
Just about every entry level safe on the market is built like the safe in the video. The idea is to stay away from all them. If I tell you about one safe, then you stray from that one, and just head towards another manufacturers brand that's built the same way. The idea is to stay away from all of them. The video does not play on peoples fears because every person who sees it, seems to act the same way you are. The thing that changes their minds when they come in my shop is when they see the pried open safe I have in the showroom. I did include info on the safe that was pried open. 12 ga body, ended sheet metal door frame, one side locking bolt coverage, composite sheetrock door construction, 30 min fire rating, etc.... It has been all over this forum about what to look for, and what not too look for, what is strong, and what is well fire rated, as well as what has a good warranty and what doesn't. So you cant tell me you don't know what you should be looking for and what you don't want in a safe.

Everyone makes excuses, the hardest guys to show anything or tell anything to is usually guys like the ones all over this forum. The way they see the light is when seeing something in person. Like touching the thin steel on a un-supported door frame, seeing how you can bend a composite sheetrock door by bracing it with your foot and pulling at the top, etc......



Was the safe a 2009 model? or was it 10 years or older?

ETA isnt threre a full line of Graffunder safes shown in the background in that same video? If so doesnt that seem a bit odd, for someone whos just trying to educate the general population on entry level safes?

ETA: I recently purchased a safe based on the most money i could budget for a safe ($2k) I used info from alot of your posts to educate myself in what to look for and what not to accept. At no point in my decision making did the video play a part. Yeah im like the rest, i wanted to know what brand safe and what model, but thats it. I even bought a safe of the same brand that is used in the video. So i dont see how you can relate my critisism of the video to be anything other than honest and accurate.
Link Posted: 2/18/2010 7:17:25 PM EDT

The first time I saw the video I was shocked to see how easy it was to get into cheap safes - I thought it was helpful, and I dont really see what the fuss is about - unless its the owners of these safes that has the issues.

Link Posted: 2/18/2010 8:43:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2010 9:50:28 PM EDT by Snopczynski]
Im not sure why you felt the need to freak out about this. You already know you didn't buy the safe that was in the video. At this point I am done talking about it. Nothing productive is coming from this conversation, and I am not exactly thrilled or appreciative about some of the stuff you have said.
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 2:11:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Snopczynski:
Im not sure why you felt the need to freak out about this. You already know you didn't buy the safe that was in the video. At this point I am done talking about it. Nothing productive is coming from this conversation, and I am not exactly thrilled or appreciative about some of the stuff you have said.



Ive never once lead anyone to believe that i bought the safe in the video. Im voicing my opinion about the video. If you dont like what i have said please rebut about it with Good info and not just "im a safe pro and if i say ive seen it first hand it must be so, and those who dont have my experience in safes dont know what they are talking about"  Thats how im reading your posts. Ive in no way intended on offending you, i have even given you some props on the info you have shared with me, but my stance on the video is firm. If its not playing on peoples fears then its just an advertisement for Graffunder.

Peace
Link Posted: 2/19/2010 7:04:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2010 7:05:10 AM EDT by Snopczynski]
I'm done.
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