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Posted: 4/5/2009 7:18:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 2:51:04 PM EST by hnrybwmn]
Just picked up a supposedly preban M1A "as new" with box and papers last night. Please don't woop me for the violation of lack of pics.
Upon inspection I see the hammer is hitting the sear. Not just a little but pretty serious off track, close to 1/16 of an inch.
What would be the best way to correct this disapointing flaw short of sending the trigger group to SA?
I have NO PAPUH following this one, I intend to keep it that way.
ETA: At first I bought a triiger and sear, hammer, both as new Garand parts. No chang, still hitting.
So, as a temporary fix I altered the hammer hole so the left back side would allow it to swing (centered) back to where it should be in relation to the trigger sear. Not 100% but not hitting either.
Than couple weeks ago I found a perfect used trigger housing. I have now installed this with the new Garand trigger and hammer. 100% fixed, no SA record. Paid $70 for the housing and I think it was $70 for the trig and hammer.
Almost $2k into the gun now. Now I need trigger time. Thought I would come back and update the post for other's information.

I am elated at getting this weapon. I've been after a fine specimen for almost 10 years.
I believe the pricks are gona bring us some free ammo soon so I've wanted to go with some .308 weapons for some time. Put together a nice Rem 700 last week.

She is virtually unmarked in any way. The walnut is flawless and very snug, just the way I like my girls.
What can you men tell me about this rifle, Serial # is 0773XX.
It would appear to be bare bones. No NM markings or any thing of note. The Barrel appears to have MRA in the serial number. I think that's it, my eyes suck. Most of the numbers I'm finding start with 77, does this indicate 1977 date of manufacture?
How much USGI components might I have here?
Also, I've heard of an optical peep. Sounds like a good possibility to help my aging eyes but I think in wet or shit conditions it wouldn't work for me. Is there such a thing as an open peep? What I'm thinking is a peep that is cut to a "V" at top would help my sighting. Especially in low light.
I also picked up a new Poly 2 weeks ago. The rear sights really suck, very loose elevation knob. I have a freind that said he's got a NM SA but hasn't quoted a price yet.
Ammo, Ive been stocking up on LC match brass. I've got 250 matchkings in 168 gr. I've got 1000 nosler bulk.
I might have picked 175gr had I been better informed but I think there might be more 168's around so that isn't all bad.
What would be a good source of loading data for the M1A specifically?
I decided on IMR 4895 for .223 and 30––06 and 308. Found a source of kegs that hasn't dried up yet.
What would be desired velocities for M1A using IMR4895, any load suggestions?
I'd like to see a walnut handguard, where can such a critter be found? Or, what are the plusses or minusses in changing from the synthetic?
I love the walnut, it is also the lightest I've ever hefted, unusual.
I'm sure as I get to know my 2 new wives I'll have many more questions for you men. I thank you for your advice in advance. I've been lurking here for a while and I'm pretty impressed with most of you. I hope I can become welcome here.

ETA: I paid $1800 for this one. Not being NM or something special I know I paid high. But then again considering she's old and unused I think I did well.
Link Posted: 4/5/2009 8:08:49 AM EST
What do you mean the hammer is hitting the sear?

Also thy do make an lens for the rear sight but you have to have the NM hood. It is for highpower competituion and it would be useless in the field.
Link Posted: 4/5/2009 11:03:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By MythBuster:
What do you mean the hammer is hitting the sear?

Also thy do make an lens for the rear sight but you have to have the NM hood. It is for highpower competituion and it would be useless in the field.



Perhaps the wrong name. The slot in the hammer is hitting the piece that SHOULD be centered in the slot in cocked position, by almost 1/16". The top of what I think would be called the sear is beveled on both sides of the top but is getting shiny from the rubbing. It would appear to me the pivot hole the hammer pivots on is askew, or not 90 degrees to the plane of the side face of the hammer.
Link Posted: 4/5/2009 2:49:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/5/2009 2:53:55 PM EST by ma96782]
Preban...........

Call SA to verify the birthday.

Then, ask if it was sold as a complete rifle or just receiver.

Why?

Cause, IF it was a complete rifle............LIFETIME WARRANTEE!

Problem solved.

Aloha, Mark

PS...........meanwhile look at.............

http://www.m14tfl.com/upload/forumdisplay.php?f=65

And, I believe (somewhere on their site) they have an idea for ser # birthday list for SA Inc.

But.......only the factory knows if it was just a receiver or complete rifle.







Link Posted: 4/5/2009 4:04:40 PM EST
Thank you for the link and info Mark.
I find it strange that over 80 people have read the post and only 2 replies..........
Link Posted: 4/6/2009 4:02:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By hnrybwmn:
Just picked up a supposedly preban M1A "as new" with box and papers last night. Please don't woop me for the violation of lack of pics.
Upon inspection I see the hammer is hitting the sear. Not just a little but pretty serious off track, close to 1/16 of an inch.
What would be the best way to correct this disapointing flaw short of sending the trigger group to SA?
I have NO PAPUH following this one, I intend to keep it that way.

I am elated at getting this weapon. I've been after a fine specimen for almost 10 years.
I believe the pricks are gona bring us some free ammo soon so I've wanted to go with some .308 weapons for some time. Put together a nice Rem 700 last week.

She is virtually unmarked in any way. The walnut is flawless and very snug, just the way I like my girls.
What can you men tell me about this rifle, Serial # is 0773XX.
It would appear to be bare bones. No NM markings or any thing of note. The Barrel appears to have MRA in the serial number. I think that's it, my eyes suck. Most of the numbers I'm finding start with 77, does this indicate 1977 date of manufacture?
How much USGI components might I have here?
Also, I've heard of an optical peep. Sounds like a good possibility to help my aging eyes but I think in wet or shit conditions it wouldn't work for me. Is there such a thing as an open peep? What I'm thinking is a peep that is cut to a "V" at top would help my sighting. Especially in low light.
I also picked up a new Poly 2 weeks ago. The rear sights really suck, very loose elevation knob. I have a freind that said he's got a NM SA but hasn't quoted a price yet.
Ammo, Ive been stocking up on LC match brass. I've got 250 matchkings in 168 gr. I've got 1000 nosler bulk.
I might have picked 175gr had I been better informed but I think there might be more 168's around so that isn't all bad.
What would be a good source of loading data for the M1A specifically?
I decided on IMR 4895 for .223 and 30––06 and 308. Found a source of kegs that hasn't dried up yet.
What would be desired velocities for M1A using IMR4895, any load suggestions?
I'd like to see a walnut handguard, where can such a critter be found? Or, what are the plusses or minusses in changing from the synthetic?
I love the walnut, it is also the lightest I've ever hefted, unusual.
I'm sure as I get to know my 2 new wives I'll have many more questions for you men. I thank you for your advice in advance. I've been lurking here for a while and I'm pretty impressed with most of you. I hope I can become welcome here.

ETA: I paid $1800 for this one. Not being NM or something special I know I paid high. But then again considering she's old and unused I think I did well.


Sir, it's been said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. NM markings have very little meaning to someone that actually uses one of these rifles in competition, all the rest is just for collectors and serves no meaningful purpose other than a basis for the seller to jack up the price.

IIRC SA recievers in that serial range were very late preban, one of my rifles SN 58XXX was built in '91, but not by SA. The Bob Jones sight insert fits inside the hooded NM aperture and is retained in position by an "O" ring. As already mentioned it's all but useless for other than HP competitors. If you really want some form of optical sight I recommend you consider the ACOG, Aimpoint, or EOTECH with the rifle reconfigured with a picatinny rail system.

I've used handloads in competition for many years, ideal velocity for the 168gy Sierra Match King bullet is just under 2600fps and the 175gr SMK just over 2600fps. IMR 4895 is the powder of choice for most, but there are users of 4064 and Varget for this cartridge. If you have a rifle that will shoot MOA at 600yd and you are also up to it the 175gr bullet is the choice of most, otherwise stick with the 168gr SMK, it will be as accurate as you want it to be all across the course if you are up to it.

Real NM2A sights are pricey, the knock offs need to be fitted by a knowledgeable gunsmith to be functionally useable, otherwise just tighten up what you have and rely on Kentucky windage for plinking. FA sells their version of NM sights but again as with most FA items they aren't inexpensive and are best fitted.

HTH, 7zero1.

Link Posted: 4/6/2009 6:25:17 AM EST
Thank you for that info kind sir.

Would you offer any suggestions on the Hammer/seer fix?

Thanks,
Michael
Link Posted: 4/6/2009 7:43:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By hnrybwmn:
Thank you for that info kind sir.

Would you offer any suggestions on the Hammer/seer fix?

Thanks,
Michael


First, I would strip out the hammer and trigger. Next would be to inspect the hammer and trigger pins for wear and fit in their holes. This might be the problem (wobbly pin fit). This would be difficult to find while the spring is holding tension. Next check for a snug fit of the hammer pin in the hammer.

Link Posted: 4/6/2009 9:21:54 AM EST
Is the trigger pull actually out of spec?
Link Posted: 4/6/2009 9:42:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By hnrybwmn:
Thank you for the link and info Mark.
I find it strange that over 80 people have read the post and only 2 replies..........

No offense, but it's not he clearest post I've ever seen.

Can you post a picture of what you're talking about with the hammer hitting the sear (or the "thing").
Link Posted: 4/6/2009 3:47:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/6/2009 4:28:01 PM EST by hnrybwmn]
No, I have no way of doing a good pic.
There is no wear or play in the pin or hammer as this gun is "as new"
only 5 rounds through it. It has more wear from me working the action than it had when I took posession of it.
I have not yet fired it.

If I hold the trigger group in my left hand, as it would sit in the receiver, pulling back the hammer, the left ear hits the trigger sear on the left side. It does not clear as it should with the trigger sear centered in the hammer slot.
It hits about as much as the slight bevel of the left side of the trigger sear.
I hope this is a clearer description.

Perhaps I should contact Springfield and see if they know of a batch of bad hammers or the trigger housing frame holes are askew, maybe they would give me one if they know there was a problem with a certain lot.

ETA: I do have the box and original manual and even original warranty card.
I just sent Springfield an e-mail to see if they have any record of any problems with this serial # range. I geuss we'll see.
This is an M1A standard grade, by the way. Only indicator is the original sticker on the end of the box.
Link Posted: 4/6/2009 6:34:19 PM EST
I dont really understand what your problem is with your trigger asymbly.
If you feel that there is a problem, and it does not function properly, you can send just the trigger asymble to be inspectet without having to send the whole rifle.
77 are common begining numbers in m14 parts drawing numbers.
Link Posted: 4/7/2009 4:15:55 PM EST
got a reply from SA today. Rifle manufactured Feb '94. I would be welcome to send the rifle in.
Try calling customer service.

I'll try calling customer service tomorrow.
Link Posted: 4/7/2009 4:29:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/7/2009 5:36:15 PM EST by fxntime]
Here's a pic of a Garand trigger assembly, it's close enough to a M1A to tell us what part you are talking about.

[/img]


Is it assembled correctly? I think I see what you're trying to say. The slot on the hammer hits the upright on the trigger/sear, right?
Link Posted: 4/8/2009 3:44:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/8/2009 3:46:45 AM EST by hnrybwmn]
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Here's a pic of a Garand trigger assembly, it's close enough to a M1A to tell us what part you are talking about.

http://i40.tinypic.com/10miv85.jpg[/url]


Is it assembled correctly? I think I see what you're trying to say. The slot on the hammer hits the upright on the trigger/sear, right?


Yes, exactly, this is the problem. Again, the left side of the hammer (slotted area) is hitting on the left side of the trigger sear. There is a bevel that can be seen in this picture on that area, that is about how much the impact area amounts to.

Thank you very much for the pic, by the way. I'll be calling SA shortly. If they have no record of any problems I think I will order another hammer.

ETA: there is no fuggin way I'm sending the gun or even the trigger group to be checked.
Link Posted: 4/8/2009 4:06:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By hnrybwmn:


ETA: there is no fuggin way I'm sending the gun or even the trigger group to be checked.


I returned the trigger group in my Scout for warranty repair in 2001 and Springfield sent me a new TRW trigger group.

You could send it back for repair and request they replace it with a USGI piece... you could get lucky

Link Posted: 4/14/2009 7:59:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2009 8:00:06 AM EST by hnrybwmn]
Well, I got the new Garand hammer and trigger and trigger sear from Claude in Maryland.
Didn't fix the problem. It would appear the problem is the trigger housing holes are askew. Dammit.
I took the new parts back out and used the original hammer, I "coned" the pin hole to the left and rear, so that in the position of just touching the trigger sear it has play to move to the left, away from where it is hitting. Fixed, temporarily.
The hammer is now centered on the trigger sear.
I geuss I'll be looking for another trigger housing and or complete group. THEN I may send mine into SA.
Don't want to have an incomplete rifle.

I was expecting used parts, they appear new. Cudos to Claude along with prompt shipment.
The parts set for the butt is all new too. The wrench/tool is new wrapped in cosmoline cloth in sealed plastic.
Claudes website:http://www.raparts.com/
Link Posted: 4/14/2009 8:14:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2009 8:15:48 AM EST by ma96782]
IF you worked on the trigger housing hole............

Well, I hope that SA Inc. doesn't say that you buggered it......so, the warranty doesn't apply.

Aloha, Mark
Link Posted: 4/14/2009 11:43:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By ma96782:
IF you worked on the trigger housing hole............

Well, I hope that SA Inc. doesn't say that you buggered it......so, the warranty doesn't apply.

Aloha, Mark


thats whats gonna happen.....should have just sent the trigger group in ...but some people like to reinvent wheels i guess......
Link Posted: 4/14/2009 11:45:15 AM EST
Did we ever establish that the trigger pull was unsat?
Link Posted: 4/14/2009 4:44:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2009 4:47:04 PM EST by hnrybwmn]
Yup, reinventing the wheel. Always been my specialty.
I altered the hammer, not the housing. That is where the problem is.

Yeah, I know, shoulda sent it in. I spent $60 for hammer, trigger and trigger sear from Claude. There was a complete usgi trigger group coupla weeks ago on EE for $135.
I'll just watch for another.
Spare parts are ok with me. Yeah, the hammer is not perfect but I did solve the problem of the colliding parts.
(for now, so I can shoot without breaking anything.)
I'll find another trigger housing and use the new parts from Claude then.

Thanks for your advice men.

30cal does unsat mean unsatisfactory?
Fired 10 today, she's working fine. I'll get some range time this week. The rem700 and Poly and SA M1A and the Mayors .223 single shot I just put a big scope on all need to be sighted in, and his .22 that just got a scope.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:48:46 PM EST
At first I bought a triiger and sear, hammer, both as new Garand parts. No change, still hitting.
So, as a temporary fix I altered the hammer pin hole so the left back side would allow it to swing (centered) back to where it should be in relation to the trigger sear. Not 100% but not hitting either.
Than couple weeks ago I found a perfect used trigger housing. I have now installed this with the new Garand trigger and hammer. 100% fixed, no SA record. Paid $70 for the housing and I think it was $70 for the trig and hammer. The fit and finish of the Garand parts were better than the M1A parts also.
Almost $2k into the gun now. Now I need trigger time. Thought I would come back and update the post for other's information.
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