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Posted: 6/26/2015 9:57:56 PM EDT
Why are there so many people on this forum with relatively minor, relatively easy to figure out problems?

Maybe another way to put it is this, and this is likely more to the point,... no one is in a better position to figure out what's wrong than the original poster.  They have the hardware in their hands, right in front of them.  For the most part, they have the tools they need to figure it out, too.

There is one missing tool and one category of problem that persists, sizing.  This remains a problem because most do not buy the proper gage until after they have a problem.

I mean no disrespect to anyone with this query.  I often ask for help, too.  My questions are not usually problems but I'm asking questions to solicit additional information and to see if what I think is reasonable/rational.  The questions are typically directed at the most experienced, the helpers, on the forum.

Well, it is "fun" and I learn a lot about how others approach things.  That's for sure.




P.S. - I like Goofy.  Goofy is good.  He's one of my favorite Disney characters.  We are all Goofy in one way or another.
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 10:06:35 PM EDT
People are lazy.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 10:35:53 PM EDT
The answer usually seems easy, simple, and straight forward when you already know the answer.

An alternative way to look at it is to be amazed and impressed that someone would have the courage to attempt to reload on their own without a personal and in-person mentor with 20 years experience.

I too, have a pet peeve.
when people get cheep with reloading manuals. Just buy the book for the bullets you want to load.
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 10:47:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 10:51:56 PM EDT
Personally I think its the way a persons mind works shit out or not.  

I actually have a friend who can run a insurance company but can't figure out that his
Lawn mower runs on gas. One of the craziest things I ever seen.  

He can break down his 1911 , ARs you name it.  He just can't grasp a lawn mower.  

I think that reloading is like that for some people.  



Link Posted: 6/27/2015 12:21:35 AM EDT
I feel the same way, especially when a question was just beaten to death a few days before.



Then I remember not everyone reads every thread every day in this part of the site.




Back when I joined I had already been loading for a while but I really learned a lot by reading here religiously and asking questions from time to time. I'd suggest others do the same. I found that when I ran into a problem I already knew the solution.




Like Dryflash said - people who learned on here are now giving advice.
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 12:29:19 AM EDT
Instant gratification.  
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 10:27:53 AM EDT
Some people are not very mechanically inclined/skilled.

If you put a bolt, nut, and washer in front of them they won't know how they go together. They are not very good working with their hands and can't comprehend how mechanical things work.

I used to build custom machines for other companies who would put these machines into their production lines. We had a whole room full of mechanical engineers who would design a machine on paper then give the drawings to us (the builders), within 2 minutes 99% of the time we would start finding things that wouldn't work. We'd take it back to the designer and say, ''This, this, this and this won't work''. Explain to them why, and give suggestions on what will work.
The problems were always mechanical in nature, they looked good on paper but in the real world didn't work, for instance, this arm will be holding the part in place while at the same time this other arm has to come over the top and push the next part into the same place. You can't have one arm holding a part while another is pushing the next part into the same space. Stuff like that. They were smart when it came to making things in their minds but had no knowledge of how things really worked.

There's nothing wrong with that, some people are book smart and some are street smart, that's all. The world needs both. Most of the guys asking easy questions may be the book smart kind, they can talk my ear off about things I couldn't dream of but couldn't build a reloading bench that won't fall apart the first pull on the handle.

I learned to reload on my own, just figured out how things worked and went from there, didn't even know this site existed. I read a lot of stuff first, then got to work making my own. I've learned a hell of a lot from this site since then and I'm glad the experienced guys here are willing to share.

In my book there's no stupid questions when it comes to something that could blow your fingers off, so I don't mind answering easy questions. This forum is all about helping fellow hobbyists how to do things right, so let's help them by answering their easy questions.

( Not at all intended to be a rant against anyone, though it may sound like it. Just my explanation of the OP's post)
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 1:37:47 PM EDT
Yep, interesting insights, guys.

One thing struck me while thinking this over - no one is an expert in every cartridge.  Many cartridges have subtle differences from others that appear similar - 9mm versus 45ACP, as an example.

While typing, it struck me there's a long standing difference between loading manual data and what we get over our chronos at the same powder charge listed in the manual.  Double checking (verifying) before loading is a good, SAFE practice.
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 2:15:11 PM EDT
Quoted:
Why are there so many people on this forum with relatively minor, relatively easy to figure out problems?

Maybe another way to put it is this, and this is likely more to the point,... no one is in a better position to figure out what's wrong than the original poster.  They have the hardware in their hands, right in front of them.  For the most part, they have the tools they need to figure it out, too.

There is one missing tool and one category of problem that persists, sizing.  This remains a problem because most do not buy the proper gage until after they have a problem.

I mean no disrespect to anyone with this query.  I often ask for help, too.  My questions are not usually problems but I'm asking questions to solicit additional information and to see if what I think is reasonable/rational.  The questions are typically directed at the most experienced, the helpers, on the forum.

Well, it is "fun" and I learn a lot about how others approach things.  That's for sure.
View Quote



We were all new at reloading once.... I'll help anyone out, and i want people to feel comfortable enough to ask "goofy" questions when they need help.

But that's just me.
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 3:33:17 PM EDT
OP, Let me put it like this, I am a mechanic by trade(35+ yrs), I see people post questions about simple car issues all the time because  they either don't have the knowledge to figure it out, or they don't understand the physics of its operation... so they come and they ask, which is fine, and I don't mind sharing anything I can that may help them... what I don't like is when they ignore good info, because then they are just wasting everyones time.. same deal with reloading, everyone starting out loading  or have some experience will run into issues that they don't have the knowledge or don't understand the physics of and could get in trouble, so they come and ask..which I think is good, its when they ignore the advice they solicited that it becomes an issue...
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 5:15:57 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I'll help anyone out, and i want people to feel comfortable enough to ask "goofy" questions when they need help.

But that's just me.
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Me, too, I was just wondering about the topic.
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 5:20:31 PM EDT
When I started, I talked to allot of reloaders, made lists for ordering the right parts the 1st time. Still have questions from time to time but thats how you learn. Never a dumb question. Am always over cautious. The 1st time is always a bit scary, especially when you pull the trigger on your 1st reload (did I cover all my bases, will this round explode, etc etc). My pucker time was when I shot my 1st 50BMG reload. Sat there a bit before pulling that trigger. Fun to reload and always learning.
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 5:22:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
... everyone starting out loading  or have some experience will run into issues that they don't have the knowledge or don't understand the physics of and could get in trouble, so they come and ask..which I think is good, its when they ignore the advice they solicited that it becomes an issue...
View Quote



Yes, but likely more of an issue for the one whose time was wasted than by the recipient.  You can try to help (that's good) but you can't control others' decision making.  Let it go.
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 6:00:27 PM EDT
I did a huge amount of research before I started loading.  I couldn't ask online because there warn't no Intratubes back then.  

Quick questions that seem goofy (or even lazy) are often because none of this hobby is at all trivial, and unless a new loader has broad mechanical experience AND the time and patience to tinker with stuff, they are not going to be able to figure out how to do basic stuff.  Unless a noob reads the right (for them) introduction, they simply won't be as well set to figure things out as someone who has a human mentor right there who can hold their hand and show them "this is how you really do it."  

And then there are similar, goofy, lazy sounding questions that are indeed lazy, goofy questions.  The difference is usually seen in how the post is phrased, and how the member responds to answers.  It's sometimes as simple as "didn't this question get answered yesterday?  And last week?"  Other times the questions make it clear that the poster is someone nobody wants to have matches, let alone want him to try making his own ammunition!  
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 2:25:41 AM EDT
I remember when TAC was a new powder, I have burned over 20 lbs of it since then and have a few barrels that need to be replaced. I do things now I would have considered crazy in my infancy (Start at above minimum load, OMG!). During my learning phase with the .223/5.56 here no one ever talked to me like I was an idiot and I am still learning and exploring new options. It is not the time now to talk down to our newbies, some day one of them will take Dryflash3 spot as Mod
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 2:44:10 AM EDT
"Why are there so many people on this forum with relatively minor, relatively easy to figure out problems? " And the corollary "Why are there some many poor/useless answers lol?" Not talking about good tries but wrong answers . . . just the useless ones.

It's not just this forum. And it's not just this discipline. Spend some time on a even a top=quality computer hardware forum and IMO the distribution is about the same. A lot of folks have been told "Dpn't buy that gaming PC . . . you can build one real easy, better, cheaper." So - with help - they select the required 8 components and start slapping it together. Amazingly, most times it works. But when it doesn't, they have absolutely no clue where the problem could be. Sound familiar lol? Experience (and parts to swap in/out) helps a lot.

Then there's the fact that the world is, by definition, largely populated with average people :). OTOH, some people are blessed with natural insight, troubleshooting skills, discipline, etc. Others gain those things through experience in their chosen craft(s). But relative to the general population, and in reloading specifically, that's not a huge number of folks.

So almost all the questions (and answers) neither surprise nor bother me. I *am* astonished . . . and gratified . . . that there aren't more hospitalization reports though :) The only questions that do bother me are the ones that scare you displaying a clear and complete lack of knowledge, no preparation of any kind, often combined with an attitude. The answers that bother me most are the ones that say "Device X is the best." with not a single reason why . . . and probably no experience with any of Device X's competitors lol.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 3:52:56 AM EDT
Not everyone is at the same skill level

here you have dozens of extremely experienced reloaders who can answer any question under the sun, so why not use that resource?
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 9:29:29 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not everyone is at the same skill level

here you have dozens of extremely experienced reloaders who can answer any question under the sun, so why not use that resource?
View Quote

...and a lot of folks with extremely varied experience with different calibers, different equipment, and with different purposes for their loads.  That helps broaden the base of answers, which can help get the right angle and point of view across to the question askers.

I have to say, sometimes I just read thread titles and wonder "WTF is he on about?"  But more often than not, I either read the post and see that the question has been addressed (well, thoroughly, poorly, etc.), or that it needs some input.  One side effect of a new person not knowing how to do something is that they also don't know how to express their problem, and often they don't know how to express what they're trying to do.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 1:17:20 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I did a huge amount of research before I started loading.  I couldn't ask online because there warn't no Intratubes back then.  
View Quote



Yes, it was a truly different learning experience back then.  The internet has truly changed how we learn things.  

There is a flip side to my question, too.

Why do so many people come to this forum and post information and give guidance on a potentially dangerous topic?
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 2:42:27 PM EDT
I never grew up or knew anyone that reloaded. Watch a couple youtube videos, read a few manuals, and have a pretty good grasp of what it takes to reload metallic cartridges.

That being said, we are potentially dealing with something that a mistake can lead to serious problem/injury. I have no one available that could double check my work before I test it, so it is nice to make sure I didn't miss something important and would rather ask a "goofy" question than be making a thread of "my gun blew up, what did I do wrong?"

Link Posted: 6/28/2015 4:03:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I never grew up or knew anyone that reloaded. Watch a couple youtube videos, read a few manuals, and have a pretty good grasp of what it takes to reload metallic cartridges.

That being said, we are potentially dealing with something that a mistake can lead to serious problem/injury. I have no one available that could double check my work before I test it, so it is nice to make sure I didn't miss something important and would rather ask a "goofy" question than be making a thread of "my gun blew up, what did I do wrong?"

View Quote


I don't think that quite qualifies as "goofy".  Goofy is when the person has the stuff on the bench in front of them and all they need to do is measure it or look at it or,... something they are best positioned to do and we are not.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 10:49:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 3:29:01 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I don't think that quite qualifies as "goofy".  Goofy is when the person has the stuff on the bench in front of them and all they need to do is measure it or look at it or,... something they are best positioned to do and we are not.
View Quote



There are times I can see what is wrong, I can figure it out or can research it on the Interwebz, Youtube, manuals. Most of the time I get it done. Sometimes, even though the answer lies right in front of Me, I want to verify it with an expert, or at least Someone Who has had/has the same issue, or equipment that I have. Sometimes it seems lame, I know. But trust Me, if I ask something that seems "GOOFY", I have already Googled it, and haven't found the information I seek.

I have learned almost EVERYTHING I know about reloading from this site,Youtube, and several reputable reloading manuals. In the general scope of things, I consider Myself to know just enough to be REALLY dangerous.

Reloading is a hobby that I take VERY seriously. I only go to two reloading sites, here, and Brian Enos. There is so much misinformation on the internet these days, that I will only go to a site I trust. I have learned Who the experts are here, and alot of other reasonable Guys that I listen to also. I also feel that here on this site, if misinformation was posted, it would be called out. I also don't need anymore places to waste My time on the Internet.

I don't give out alot of help at this point, as I don't want to steer Anyone in the wrong direction. I look forward to becoming more of a resource someday, paying back the knowledge and patience that was shown Me as I started out in this hobby.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 8:20:13 AM EDT
It is like going to the doctor,  for the majority of Americans lose weight and exercise is the answer.   Pretty goofy right.



Easy when you know the answer,  requires work when you don't,  or you post here.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:20:37 AM EDT
So, in the end, I am reminded this board really is "social media". People can come for help which others give willingly and freely.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 1:44:33 AM EDT
After doing something for 30 years and really being a student of it, a lot of things seem pretty easy.

Then you add the fact that many of us are in technical related fields and it takes it to another level.

It does get frustrating at times when you see questions that would never be asked if someone would simply take the time to read, yes read a reloading manual.

But I've been there myself. I remember asking about pressure dents then stumbling on to it in a Speer manual. This media tool just makes you lazy sometimes.

Personally I don't know how dryflash3 can keep answering the same things week in and week out. :)

BTW: What's the most accurate 30-06 load ?

Motor
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 3:24:22 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Personally I don't know how dryflash3 can keep answering the same things week in and week out. :)

BTW: What's the most accurate 30-06 load ?

Motor
View Quote

The one that shoots best in your gun....

ETA..I agree , most questions can be answered with a little reading in a reloading manual....
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 3:30:27 AM EDT
Attention whores.
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 8:30:42 AM EDT
I think it's human nature among tinkerers to look for shortcuts or discover a better way of doing things.  Regarding reloading, those hacks were found long ago and are considered recommended procedure.  This first sign should be the fact that several reloading manuals contain the same information.  It may be worded differently, however if there was a cheat, shortcut, or step that's not needed, someone would've written about it.
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