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Posted: 2/26/2016 1:59:34 PM EDT
I was shooting my AUG A3 and had someone ask me if i really liked shooting it and would honestly pick it over an AR - both in terms of "hey, I am going to the range what is fun to shoot" and in terms of the SHTF and I need to grab a weapon I trust my life to right NOW.
It got me thinking - and honestly my AUG would be pretty high on my list for both events.
I guess that means I should look at getting some more spare parts.

Question to others then - is a bullpup your "go to" gun?

Link Posted: 2/26/2016 2:11:12 PM EDT
I would have to say no; I would never choose a bullpup over a qulity AR, or even an AK (some exceptions).  Part of that comes down to my familiarity with the traditional weapons, but I also find bullpup design to be lacking.  Sure, it's cool to have a really short rifle with a good sized barrel, but the triggers are usually bad and the mags are hard to change.  I'd rather have a longer AR with all the mechanisms in front of me in arms reach in case something goes wrong or needs adjusting.  Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 2/26/2016 2:15:38 PM EDT
In the ever debated "shtf" scenario of having to leave RFN and only allowed to take one rifle, I would grab an AUG.

My reasons are due to 1. I know that it will work without lube and 2. I know it will run clean. 3. I know it just works and won't break down on me. 4. The last time I shot an AR was 2012 (AUG's on the other hand...).
Link Posted: 2/26/2016 2:23:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By maleante:
In the ever debated "shtf" scenario of having to leave RFN and only allowed to take one rifle, I would grab an AUG.

My reasons are due to 1. I know that it will work without lube and 2. I know it will run clean. 3. I know it just works and won't break down on me. 4. The last time I shot an AR was 2012 (AUG's on the other hand...).
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I had only known the operation of the AR platform and AK platform until I picked up my AUG.
I would have said no to it being even in my top couple "go to" rifles until I ran it through a Carbine class.
Other than the instructors really razzing on me for using it, I really really liked it - more than i expected.
Since then, it has gotten the most range time and training by a vast margin.
Link Posted: 2/26/2016 2:58:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2016 3:13:29 PM EDT by India303]
AUG or Tavor as your "go to gun"?  As in SHTF or any event where deadly force would be justified?
Sure, why not?  Battle proven, issued to current military and LE units, Tavor has one advantage that it takes AR mags in a sustained event, such as a SHTF scenario, which never previously happened in history, anywhere (SHTF/Instant and permanent collapse of a government).
But in the real life there would not be any 'overtly significant' advantage using any proven carbine or bullpup over another.  As long as it is contemporaneous to current tactics and operations.  Some people will revert to a Garand, M1A or even a Mosin, but.....  
Personally I prefer a bullpup for the 'mere' advantage of compact size.  An AK will also provide what you require in a combat, self defense, or any dreamt up SHTF scenario where a long gun will work.  Not my choice though.
If you had to equip a team/agency/small army then the choice takes a more in depth look considering logistical support regardless of platform used.
If "there could only be one" as in the Highlander style, I'd hold out for the X-95 and SBR to the micro length and suppressor.
Just an observation note, the Tavor and X-95 is rapidly gaining popularity among other countries who don't get US freebies (Vietnam, holy shee...!).  Opinion; probably has more to do with the govt of Israel providing, or allowing Israeli companies a great deal of support to these countries mil and LE.  But can't deny it's a good gun.





I saw them widely used in Guatemala by mil and PNC.  Also seen them carried in Colombia and Honduras.  Mexico Federal and state cops use M4 or Colt carbines.  Only in Saudi did I see the AUG carried by mil.



 
Link Posted: 2/26/2016 3:22:52 PM EDT
In truth, any modern arm (AK, AR, AUG, Tavor)  is satisfactory as a go to gun.  I doubt there will be many instances where one choice was a fatal mistake over the other.   In the few cases where this might be, I personally find the advantages of the bullpup for indoor and awkward settings to be superior to the longer AR/AK style.  The open battlefield is the rarity, and today engagements are going to be in urban settings.  And being able to corner with a Bullpup is just better.   Being able to keep the gun level and controlled in very close quarters, such as while opening doors, or manipulating in a vehicle, are notably better with a Bullpup.  The left shoulder issue is an annoyance with AUG/TAVOR, but in an extreme setting, if you left shoulder and pull trigger, you can make it work.

Of the guns listed, I personally think the AUG will have the longest service life without troubles.  AUG's are probably the most reliable of the guns listed, though again, I doubt jam's will be frequent enough with any of them to really dominate the decision tree.  This isn't a comparison to a Ross Rifle here.  Spare parts will be harder to scrounge - but then, scrounging spare parts means taking them off of a recovered rifle.  In which case, you have a recovered rifle.

Me?  whatever I grab first really, but given the choice, probably the AUG.  It's easier to breakdown and stash when discretion is needed.  It's as accurate and effective/easy to use at distance as an AR (moreso if you get a 20"), and it's more handy indoors.  It's slightly slower on the reload - but again, I suspect the value of the handyness will outweight the value of 1/8'th a second faster reload.  That, and frankly, most encounters are going to be done in way less than 30 rounds.  For situations that take more ammo - things have gone dire indeed, and gun choice is probably the least of your worries.

If I plan on being on the move/on patrol solo where I'm going to be eyeballed a lot, an exotic cool gun may not be a great idea.  I'd probably take an M1 carbine.  It's a crap gun that no one wants, but works.   Read up on the Bosnia conflict and you'll understand why I say this.  It's a crap gun, that nobody wants.  



Link Posted: 2/26/2016 9:34:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bes53181:
I would have to say no; I would never choose a bullpup over a qulity AR, or even an AK (some exceptions).  Part of that comes down to my familiarity with the traditional weapons, but I also find bullpup design to be lacking.  Sure, it's cool to have a really short rifle with a good sized barrel, but the triggers are usually bad and the mags are hard to change.  I'd rather have a longer AR with all the mechanisms in front of me in arms reach in case something goes wrong or needs adjusting.  Just my 2 cents.
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The triggers can be fixed and the rest of this is simply a training issue.
Link Posted: 2/27/2016 6:33:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By kfeltenberger:


The triggers can be fixed and the rest of this is simply a training issue.
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Originally Posted By kfeltenberger:
Originally Posted By bes53181:
I would have to say no; I would never choose a bullpup over a qulity AR, or even an AK (some exceptions).  Part of that comes down to my familiarity with the traditional weapons, but I also find bullpup design to be lacking.  Sure, it's cool to have a really short rifle with a good sized barrel, but the triggers are usually bad and the mags are hard to change.  I'd rather have a longer AR with all the mechanisms in front of me in arms reach in case something goes wrong or needs adjusting.  Just my 2 cents.


The triggers can be fixed and the rest of this is simply a training issue.


+1
Link Posted: 2/27/2016 7:56:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bes53181:
I would have to say no; I would never choose a bullpup over a qulity AR, or even an AK (some exceptions).  Part of that comes down to my familiarity with the traditional weapons, but I also find bullpup design to be lacking.  Sure, it's cool to have a really short rifle with a good sized barrel, but the triggers are usually bad and the mags are hard to change.  I'd rather have a longer AR with all the mechanisms in front of me in arms reach in case something goes wrong or needs adjusting.  Just my 2 cents.
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I change Tavor mags as quick as I do AR mags, and the trigger is every bit as good as a decent AR trigger.
Link Posted: 2/27/2016 9:23:27 PM EDT
For me a "go to" gun is one I use for HD use as well as drag around with me in pickups and farm equipment around my family's ranch. While I think something like my AUG or a Tavor would be a bit more ideal (especially a Tavor with a light in an MI forend since it would be a fairly snag free gun) I still prefer an AR. Why? To be honest it comes down to cost. I don't feel bad about knocking around an AR since the guns are cheap, as are parts, and I kind of doubt they will ever be collectible. I look at them as essentially a disposable gun. While a bullpup would be handier, I just can't bring myself to abuse my $1600 bullpup when an AR is small enough and cheaper. If Tavors and AUGs were around $1000 and were more common, I might feel different.
Link Posted: 2/27/2016 10:33:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bes53181:
I would have to say no; I would never choose a bullpup over a qulity AR, or even an AK (some exceptions).  Part of that comes down to my familiarity with the traditional weapons, but I also find bullpup design to be lacking.  Sure, it's cool to have a really short rifle with a good sized barrel, but the triggers are usually bad and the mags are hard to change.  I'd rather have a longer AR with all the mechanisms in front of me in arms reach in case something goes wrong or needs adjusting.  Just my 2 cents.
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So which bull pups have you actually OWNED?

Not even a second thought....my AUG goes w/me if needed.
Link Posted: 2/27/2016 11:59:41 PM EDT
Between the Tavor and AUG, I always have a tiny tendency to lean toward the Tavor, but it's not based on anything of any consequence.  I wouldn't be concerned to have to decide between either.  In fact in a real SHTF age old discussion, two of my AR15's, the Tavor, and the AUG wouldn't give me any heartburn to have to live with in the zombie apocalypse, ISIS invasion, or Red Dawn...LOL!  And, I even have an Armalite AR10 16" carbine that is light enough to live with in a Mad Max adventure.  I don't have an AK, but if I had a decent one, it would be in the running too.  There are just too many good, solid, reliable, high performing rifles out there to get all religious about a specific one IMO.
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 3:30:44 PM EDT
If it came down between an AR15 and my Steyr Aug, it would be my Steyr Aug. At least as far as 5.56 caliber rifles. I carried an Aug on duty for several years before I retired and I've owned a few Steyr Augs over the last 15 years. They're extremely reliable and accurate. More so than any AR15 or Colt M4 carbines that I have carried or owned. And, with the Nato stock I can use AR15 magazines (box and drum magazines) or switch back to the regular Aug stock and use my Aug magazines. I can also switch out barrels in a couple of seconds. You can't do that with an AR15.
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 3:44:09 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bes53181:
I would have to say no; I would never choose a bullpup over a qulity AR, or even an AK (some exceptions).  Part of that comes down to my familiarity with the traditional weapons, but I also find bullpup design to be lacking.  Sure, it's cool to have a really short rifle with a good sized barrel, but the triggers are usually bad and the mags are hard to change.  I'd rather have a longer AR with all the mechanisms in front of me in arms reach in case something goes wrong or needs adjusting.  Just my 2 cents.
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Back about 22 years ago I would have agreed with most of what you wrote. About 20 years ago I changed my mind and disagree. That shift in my thinking started with my introduction to the H&K P7M13 pistol. I used to think that's a complicated looking pistol with that cocking lever and magazine release behind the trigger. That looks too complicated to learn. That was until I actually held one and practiced the manual of arms a few times. I quickly picked up the manual of arms and found that it is an ingenious design that allowed for much faster combat reloads of any semi-automatic pistol that I have ever owned. And was a much safer semi-auto pistol to carry loaded, than any other I have ever handled.

Then I learned that the Steyr Aug was also an ingenious design that I liked more than the AR15's that I liked at the time. And, that combat reloads with the Aug can be almost as fast as with the AR15 by using the proper technique. I also learned that I was much more accurate with the Aug than the Colt AR15 or M4 carbine.
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 5:27:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 5:41:36 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By DSArms_FAL:


I really think the bullpup design's biggest issue really is the blast, flash and dust up being closer to your face/head. In SHTF the chances are you would not have anything more than plugs, and most likely make shift plugs. The concussion of the 5.56 bullpup especially indoors and in confined spaces is too excessive.



Also I understand the trigger can be improved and balance is subjective so we can leave these alone, but I do think mag changes are slower for most people and it takes a lot of training just to get mag changes in bullpups up to standard speed for an AR type magwell. Another issue IMHO is the lack of a sizeable hand guard which can make many shooting positions tough with the bullpup. Other issues are.......



1. Even halfway weak shoulder shooting is usually compromised except for the FS2000 design which has its own set of issues due to this "bullpup fix"

2. heat build up can be more "felt" in bullpup designs

3. effective sling placements are compromised due to the bullpup basic design
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Your 1st paragraph tells me that you have little to no experience with modern bullpups. Concussion and muzzle blast have more to do with barrel length and a 20" AUG is the same length as an AR with a 10.5" barrel. Wanna bet which one of those will leave you more concussed?

 
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 6:40:44 PM EDT
AUG has become my go-to rifle. Short, handy, mild recoil, ultra reliable, and easy to make hits out to 400m with the Swaro 1.5x optic. With the barrel removed it is 22". It suppresses okay with my AAC m4-2k. And spare parts have been (and continue to be) available through Pete Athens. The AUG is a fantastic rifle.
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 7:47:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mcantu:

Your 1st paragraph tells me that you have little to no experience with modern bullpups. Concussion and muzzle blast have more to do with barrel length and a 20" AUG is the same length as an AR with a 10.5" barrel. Wanna bet which one of those will leave you more concussed?  
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Originally Posted By mcantu:
Originally Posted By DSArms_FAL:
I really think the bullpup design's biggest issue really is the blast, flash and dust up being closer to your face/head. In SHTF the chances are you would not have anything more than plugs, and most likely make shift plugs. The concussion of the 5.56 bullpup especially indoors and in confined spaces is too excessive.

Also I understand the trigger can be improved and balance is subjective so we can leave these alone, but I do think mag changes are slower for most people and it takes a lot of training just to get mag changes in bullpups up to standard speed for an AR type magwell. Another issue IMHO is the lack of a sizeable hand guard which can make many shooting positions tough with the bullpup. Other issues are.......

1. Even halfway weak shoulder shooting is usually compromised except for the FS2000 design which has its own set of issues due to this "bullpup fix"
2. heat build up can be more "felt" in bullpup designs
3. effective sling placements are compromised due to the bullpup basic design




Your 1st paragraph tells me that you have little to no experience with modern bullpups. Concussion and muzzle blast have more to do with barrel length and a 20" AUG is the same length as an AR with a 10.5" barrel. Wanna bet which one of those will leave you more concussed?  


This is correct. The Aug is very pleasant to shoot.
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 7:58:22 PM EDT
To me, it is like golf clubs.  Any one will work at the time you need it.
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 9:57:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DSArms_FAL:
I really think the bullpup design's biggest issue really is the blast, flash and dust up being closer to your face/head. In SHTF the chances are you would not have anything more than plugs, and most likely make shift plugs. The concussion of the 5.56 bullpup especially indoors and in confined spaces is too excessive.

Also I understand the trigger can be improved and balance is subjective so we can leave these alone, but I do think mag changes are slower for most people and it takes a lot of training just to get mag changes in bullpups up to standard speed for an AR type magwell. Another issue IMHO is the lack of a sizeable hand guard which can make many shooting positions tough with the bullpup. Other issues are.......

1. Even halfway weak shoulder shooting is usually compromised except for the FS2000 design which has its own set of issues due to this "bullpup fix"
2. heat build up can be more "felt" in bullpup designs
3. effective sling placements are compromised due to the bullpup basic design
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The muzzle blast issue isn't an issue...everything else is a training issue.  If you spent the time training with the bullpup of your choice that you did with an M-4, it would be a wash.  Mag changes are important, but they're only one piece of the overall equation.  If I'm in a home defense situation and I have to change mags, then I'm already in way the hell over my head and even if I had a belt fed would likely end the encounter cooling to room temperature.  If it was a stereotypical SHTF event, then I want to *retain* my mags, not drop them on the ground like a gamer.

In the end, it's all about training.
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 10:02:36 PM EDT
I'm not getting the comment on the alleged issue of dust, dirt, and blast with a 5.56 bullpup...unless you're running some kind of aggressive brake...and then on a 5.56 I'd have to ask why.  This past summer at a tactical school I was laying on the ground shooting in the prone position at a shooting tree while one of our SWAT guys was 10 feet to my right shooting his side of the same tree.  I was using a Tavor and he was using an AR15...neither of us with a brake, just flash hiders.  We were laying in dry, summer, west Texas dirt, and we both went through three 30-rounders before finished.  It's not something I even thought about at the time, but in retrospect there was no dirt, dust, or unusual blast...and yes...I have AR's too.  Now, I do have a .308 AR10 with an aggressive brake on it, and I would avoid prone shooting in the dirt with it.  But my AR15's, AUG, and Tavor?...this just isn't an issue.  I think the extreme sound and blast concerns out of reasonable barrel length 5.56 rifles is a little overdone.  And no...I'm not recommending the lack of ear protection in unsuppressed guns.

On the possible problem of sling points?  The Tavor comes with them in the ideal spots they should for great 2-point sling carry, and the AUG has aftermarket sling QD's for ideal 2-point carry.  In fact, in that same tactical class mentioned above, I think I might have been able to run, duck, hit the ground, and all the other circus moves with the Tavor a little more comfortably than my AR.  After all, there's less rifle dangling and swinging while you're moving.
Link Posted: 2/29/2016 10:16:30 PM EDT
When I had a tavor I put a fsc556 on it. I could feel the muzzle blast on my support hand. That's the only thing I can think of regarding blast - which is not a problem if you use a flash hider...
Link Posted: 3/2/2016 12:18:02 AM EDT
I'll add another reason either would be a good choice as a "go to" gun:

For those of us not in law enforcement, barring a complete and total disaster (and sometimes even then) it's not always a great idea for normal folks to be seen with a rifle, even in times that you should really have a rifle.

What to AUGs/Tavors do that an AR won't?  

Fit in a bag like this in a ready to rock condition:





If I have to evacuate from a hurricane, I can carry this in the front seat of my car with no one the wiser.  I can carry it into a hotel room without raising any eyebrows.  You have to get down to SBR sizes to do so with an AR.  SBR isn't a terrible option, but neither is a Tavor or Aug for those times you'd like to have a rifle handy but don't want people to know you have a rifle handy.

Link Posted: 3/2/2016 10:11:29 AM EDT
You will not need many spare parts for your Steyr Aug
It is the most reliable gun ever made. Even more than the AK
I own Ak's,  AR's, M 14, SKS, M 1 carbine, FAL, and the Aug is the one you want when society breaks down.
Rugged, reliable, plenty accurate, shoots any ammo, and fits in a tennis racket bag. Easy to clean, still runs when fouled.
It's only problem is, it is either lefty or righty. You can get a manticore shell deflector and now you can shoot it either side.
Link Posted: 3/3/2016 6:02:48 PM EDT
The Tavor is my go to now. I have more then a few AR's but my SHTF/HD rifle is a Tavor.

It's compact and reliable and points very well. I've got a light and a suppressor on mine as well as an upgraded trigger. It's fast on target and follow up shots are a breeze.

Full size barrel in a short rifle. I've trained with my Tavor and see no fall off in performance out to 200Y for me. I have a 40 rounder next to the rifle and two 40 rounders clipped together Israeli style nearby.

The AR was my HD rifle for many years.
Link Posted: 3/4/2016 12:28:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By 74novaman:
I'll add another reason either would be a good choice as a "go to" gun:

For those of us not in law enforcement, barring a complete and total disaster (and sometimes even then) it's not always a great idea for normal folks to be seen with a rifle, even in times that you should really have a rifle.

What to AUGs/Tavors do that an AR won't?  

Fit in a bag like this in a ready to rock condition:

If I have to evacuate from a hurricane, I can carry this in the front seat of my car with no one the wiser.  I can carry it into a hotel room without raising any eyebrows.  You have to get down to SBR sizes to do so with an AR.  SBR isn't a terrible option, but neither is a Tavor or Aug for those times you'd like to have a rifle handy but don't want people to know you have a rifle handy.

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This plus a bazillion...   everyone thinks that SHTF day 1 at 2PM will look like a Mad Max movie.  1:30PM same day, people will just be finishing up their Chipolte burrito on the patio while playing the latest installment of angry birds.

First sign its going south, go run around with an EBR strapped to your back while trying to round up supplies.  Some guard outfit will happen across you and light you up with a couple hundred rounds.
Link Posted: 3/5/2016 12:19:18 AM EDT
I got a Tavor for Christmas and it one sweet, silly little rifle.  I love it.  I also got an Arsenal SLR 107 FR for my B-Day last month (It has been a banner couple of months).  I REALLY like shooting that Tavor and as much as everyone gripes about the trigger I really don't mind it at all (and yes I have used a good trigger, I have a Geissele Super Combat in two of my AR's).  The only problem that I would have with the Tavor (the only bullpup I have or have ever used) is this:  in a true SHTF situation you aren't going to be able to fix the thing if something more than just a basic repair (bolt swap, firing pin replacement, etc...) is necessary and that charging handle bothers me sticking out like that.  I am going to fix that after market but just like my Sig 556 (which I also LOVE) if something really goes wrong you might have a really fancy club.  That being said IDF and the Israeli army used these things and they are truly battle tested.  But they are an army with supply chains, armorers, other squamates etc...  If the Tavor was the only rifle I had I wouldn't feel as if I didn't have a really quality arm at my disposal, but the Bullpen's tend to be fairly manufacturer specific if something breaks (IWI, Aug, KelTec) you have to go to them for almost all of the parts.  Great rifle for urban areas and for further expanses with that 16"barrel but I think I would have to go with an AR or AKM for the ease of repair and vast ability of universal (for the most part) parts.
Link Posted: 3/8/2016 10:05:09 AM EDT
Yes, my tavor is my shtf gun. It's all about the OAL with a 16" bbl. I'm buildings it's handy, outside it has the balance to stay low ready forever. A bit heavy, but it's worth it.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/9/2016 2:34:13 PM EDT
The Tavor gets the nod from me only because it can accept AR magazines, unless you have the AUG stock that takes NATO mags.
There is no wrong choice here though.
Link Posted: 3/11/2016 6:02:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2016 11:05:15 AM EDT by Tommycanada]
Tavor is my choice as well. Most importantly, it takes AR mags. Both the AUG and Tavor are battle proven, but the AR mags gives the tavor the edge in my opinion.
With the 18" barrel, you get the best accuracy "bang for buck" as well.

shameless Tavor pic:


Link Posted: 3/11/2016 6:13:46 PM EDT
I wouldn't take my Bushmaster Bullpup, but my MSAR AUG clone or my AUG would be good to go. I love the compactness.

The only think I like better about the AR is ease of takedown. But I am going on a six mile hike this weekend and will be carrying my MSAR, not an AR.
Link Posted: 3/11/2016 6:26:19 PM EDT
Thanks for the responses guys - I appreciate it, I feel better about choosing the AUG over an AR if given the choice.
Link Posted: 3/21/2016 1:53:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2016 1:55:07 AM EDT by VSelph]
Back when I was still fairly hardcore into shooting I'd buy an AUG, keep it for a while, and let go of it for a SCAR or something stupid. The A3s with the 16" barrels didn't do much for me and the only A1 I ever had I let go of like an idiot because the receiver was scratched up.

No matter what I'd buy I'd always boomerang right back to the AUG though. Why?

Because everything about the rifle, especially the older A1s just feels perfect. The handling and ergonomics just can't be beat. It just "fits".   It's a very soft shooting gun and getting back on target is a snap.  Magazine changes are simple and straight forward. The magazines themselves are just about as bullet proof as you can get. My AUGs were all reliable save for the MSAR copy I had for a short while but I've never had a problem out of an authentic AUG with Steyr on the side of it. I've never had to buy spare parts for any of the Steyr AUGs I've owned. When I hold an AUG I just feel plain confident in it's abilities.

They're just fantastic rifles and at least for me no other rifle can come close.

So when I liquidated my gun collection and decided which .223/5.56 rifle to keep out of the 20 or so I let go of to fund my new hobby I chose my AUG A3M1 with 20" barrel and built in optic.  

It's my "go to" rifle, actually it's the only centerfire "rifle" I own now. I don't feel lacking either.
Link Posted: 3/21/2016 9:45:08 PM EDT

I own and shoot both.
For an all out run and gun carbine...
I think I would have to go with the Tavor.
I prefer mag changes, long stroke piston, Ak style bolt...AR style mags
(Even though the Steyr mags are bomb proof...I'm thinking cost
The one thing that pushes it over the edge for me is that 9mm
conversion kits are affordable.
Link Posted: 3/21/2016 9:57:49 PM EDT
The Tavor with a tac light makes a great bug out rifle. It's a compact and proven design.

I'm an AK guy first, but I would never regret grabbing my Tavor to bug out with.
Link Posted: 3/21/2016 10:03:16 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Tommycanada:

With the 18" barrel, you get the best accuracy "bang for buck" as well.



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How does that affect accuracy?

 
Link Posted: 3/21/2016 10:05:00 PM EDT
My Tavor is my go-to rifle.  

It is heavier than my AR and AK, but is compact, well-balanced, and very comfortable.  It is lot of fun to shoot.  And, like others pointed out, it can fit in a tennis bag.

And, while some people complain about the trigger, it is better than my factory SCAR 16 trigger.

I have not shot an AUG, so I can't compare the two.
Link Posted: 3/21/2016 10:52:06 PM EDT
It weighs less than a gallon of milk, that's heavy to you guys?
Link Posted: 3/22/2016 2:31:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
It weighs less than a gallon of milk, that's heavy to you guys?
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No but I wouldn't carry a gallon of milk into combat unless I expected to encounter ginger bread men as adversaries.


Link Posted: 3/22/2016 2:36:43 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By 2001:
No but I wouldn't carry a gallon of milk into combat unless I expected to encounter ginger bread men as adversaries.





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Originally Posted By 2001:



Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

It weighs less than a gallon of milk, that's heavy to you guys?




No but I wouldn't carry a gallon of milk into combat unless I expected to encounter ginger bread men as adversaries.





Lol, ok

 
Link Posted: 3/22/2016 2:55:46 PM EDT
If my dealer calls me today and says he has a Tavor for me, it will be.

I say my dealer, as he's a really good friend. We got broken into by a little meth gang back in 2005 and they stole my wife's AR, my FN FAL, and my son's 10/22. We didn't have the money to buy anything that day, but we went to talk to him about the best places to look for stolen guns , people known to steal and sell. We had insurance, and they were going to pay, but that payment was going to be almost 2 months coming.

He gave us two AR15s, did the NICS, marked them paid, and told us to just bring him the money whenever the insurance paid off or pay him a little something each month. Hell, I bought a Colt 1911 for $850 and gave him $200 and told him I'd pay him the rest in two months and pick him up, and he told me just go ahead and take it , and pay him $50-$100 a month, whatever I could do.

I can't beat service like that. So, I go to him for everything first. He's usually cheaper too.

If he can't come through, though he should be able to, I'll go to PSA down in Columbia and pick one up.

I don't get out like I used to, so most of everything I do is here at home, so it's going to be a SD/HD weapon. Inside the house it's just a much better gun , like a 10.5 barreled AR in length.

Link Posted: 3/24/2016 1:41:09 PM EDT
Tavor is my go to.It used to be a AR15 but now Tavor all the way.The only thing that would change that is if IWI came out with a 308 Tavor
Link Posted: 3/24/2016 4:52:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2016 4:53:49 PM EDT by elray]
i run a nato stocked AUG A3 CQB
all of my 5.56 guns take ar mags
here she sits w/o optic and light(opsec)
with optics and light she is my night fighter
she would be the first  gun i would grab in a SHTF
situation. second would be a w german 226 that like my
AUG has NEVER failed me.



Link Posted: 3/31/2016 11:39:18 AM EDT
My AUG is my bedside 'go to' rifle. It is damn near perfect.


Link Posted: 4/4/2016 11:46:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jdbender:
The only problem that I would have with the Tavor (the only bullpup I have or have ever used) is this:  in a true SHTF situation you aren't going to be able to fix the thing if something more than just a basic repair (bolt swap, firing pin replacement, etc...) ... tend to be fairly manufacturer specific if something breaks (IWI, Aug, KelTec) you have to go to them for almost all of the parts.
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Statistically, the odds of a rifle from a "tier one" maker dying in civiilian use are really small.   The concern of a bullpup leaving you stranded due to lack of spares in overblown.

If you are TRULY in a SHTF situation and your primary bullpup rifle breaks due to excessive use, there will be PLENTY of other rifles laying around that you can pick up to replace the bullpup that broke.
Link Posted: 4/4/2016 7:26:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2016 8:52:27 PM EDT by burkeva]
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Originally Posted By AZJeff:


Statistically, the odds of a rifle from a "tier one" maker dying in civiilian use are really small.   The concern of a bullpup leaving you stranded due to lack of spares in overblown.

If you are TRULY in a SHTF situation and your primary bullpup rifle breaks due to excessive use, there will be PLENTY of other rifles laying around that you can pick up to replace the bullpup that broke.
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Originally Posted By AZJeff:
Originally Posted By jdbender:
The only problem that I would have with the Tavor (the only bullpup I have or have ever used) is this:  in a true SHTF situation you aren't going to be able to fix the thing if something more than just a basic repair (bolt swap, firing pin replacement, etc...) ... tend to be fairly manufacturer specific if something breaks (IWI, Aug, KelTec) you have to go to them for almost all of the parts.


Statistically, the odds of a rifle from a "tier one" maker dying in civiilian use are really small.   The concern of a bullpup leaving you stranded due to lack of spares in overblown.

If you are TRULY in a SHTF situation and your primary bullpup rifle breaks due to excessive use, there will be PLENTY of other rifles laying around that you can pick up to replace the bullpup that broke.


Well put. At the end of the day SHTF is really nothing more than a math problem. Ammunition, tactics , food, water, friends, terrain, medical supplies and medical expertise , amount of threats ( enemies and their skill level), night vision and sustainable or unsustainable logistics are all  variable that get dynamically entered into an ever changing problem. The winners are the ones who maintain near real time situation awareness and they do that by constantly evaluating the variables and making the correct decisions based off of it. Sorry for the slight thread drift.
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 7:53:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AZJeff:


Statistically, the odds of a rifle from a "tier one" maker dying in civiilian use are really small.   The concern of a bullpup leaving you stranded due to lack of spares in overblown.

If you are TRULY in a SHTF situation and your primary bullpup rifle breaks due to excessive use, there will be PLENTY of other rifles laying around that you can pick up to replace the bullpup that broke.
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Originally Posted By AZJeff:
Originally Posted By jdbender:
The only problem that I would have with the Tavor (the only bullpup I have or have ever used) is this:  in a true SHTF situation you aren't going to be able to fix the thing if something more than just a basic repair (bolt swap, firing pin replacement, etc...) ... tend to be fairly manufacturer specific if something breaks (IWI, Aug, KelTec) you have to go to them for almost all of the parts.


Statistically, the odds of a rifle from a "tier one" maker dying in civiilian use are really small.   The concern of a bullpup leaving you stranded due to lack of spares in overblown.

If you are TRULY in a SHTF situation and your primary bullpup rifle breaks due to excessive use, there will be PLENTY of other rifles laying around that you can pick up to replace the bullpup that broke.

Preach! Exactly what I was going to say. My first grab will be my Tavor, and the second gun I touch will be handing the MP5 to my boy.
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 10:46:44 AM EDT
I'm already faster at reloading and target acquisition with my Tavor after owning it less than 6 months than my ARs. That's with 13 years in the Military and 4 years as a Federal LEO.
The Tavor is perfectly set up IMO. The Israelis don't put out crap firearms. I have no hesitations grabbing the Tavor to protect my family in a life or death situation.
Thanks IWI
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 11:10:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By 74novaman:
I'll add another reason either would be a good choice as a "go to" gun:

For those of us not in law enforcement, barring a complete and total disaster (and sometimes even then) it's not always a great idea for normal folks to be seen with a rifle, even in times that you should really have a rifle.

What to AUGs/Tavors do that an AR won't?  

Fit in a bag like this in a ready to rock condition:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/antiarocking74/F37AB249-68EA-4D9D-AEE3-21BCEB07BC78_zpsoq3mf0z6.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/antiarocking74/371DBF69-E8DF-49F6-87BF-293902249B92_zps86pcha6r.jpg

If I have to evacuate from a hurricane, I can carry this in the front seat of my car with no one the wiser.  I can carry it into a hotel room without raising any eyebrows.  You have to get down to SBR sizes to do so with an AR.  SBR isn't a terrible option, but neither is a Tavor or Aug for those times you'd like to have a rifle handy but don't want people to know you have a rifle handy.

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If you have to evacuate in a hurricane, you don't think people are going to be skeptical that the one item you chose to grab was your tennis racket?
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 11:33:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By PriapusMaximus:



If you have to evacuate in a hurricane, you don't think people are going to be skeptical that the one item you chose to grab was your tennis racket?
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Originally Posted By PriapusMaximus:
Originally Posted By 74novaman:
I'll add another reason either would be a good choice as a "go to" gun:

For those of us not in law enforcement, barring a complete and total disaster (and sometimes even then) it's not always a great idea for normal folks to be seen with a rifle, even in times that you should really have a rifle.

What to AUGs/Tavors do that an AR won't?  

Fit in a bag like this in a ready to rock condition:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/antiarocking74/F37AB249-68EA-4D9D-AEE3-21BCEB07BC78_zpsoq3mf0z6.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/antiarocking74/371DBF69-E8DF-49F6-87BF-293902249B92_zps86pcha6r.jpg

If I have to evacuate from a hurricane, I can carry this in the front seat of my car with no one the wiser.  I can carry it into a hotel room without raising any eyebrows.  You have to get down to SBR sizes to do so with an AR.  SBR isn't a terrible option, but neither is a Tavor or Aug for those times you'd like to have a rifle handy but don't want people to know you have a rifle handy.




If you have to evacuate in a hurricane, you don't think people are going to be skeptical that the one item you chose to grab was your tennis racket?



Well that is true. lol

I worked in a bad area of Charlotte, also in Rock Hill and in Lancaster there was a trailer park full of illegals and guest workers that broke into the business and cars parked there multiple times. Back when I was able to work, I also was usually in a band, so having a guitar on me was a normal thing. I modified my guitar case on the inside to hold an AK with a mag inserted, and with the Kobra sight on top, with three loaded mags secured in it. I kept my guitar with me, and would sit on the loading dock, or around my car and play during lunch or just slow times. I kept the case beside me or leaned up against the wall inside my office, or behind the counter with me depending on the job. Nobody ever even thought that there was a gun in the case, just thought it was a guitar, because they saw me playing it a lot, and the case was always there when I played.

It shows how unobservant people can be, because nobody put two and two together that they never saw the guitar going into , or coming out of the case, when I played it on a daily basis.

But yeah, having a tennis racket case might throw up a red flag when there's a hurricane. lol
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 12:44:56 PM EDT
I like the idea of short bullpups, but being older and subject to various medical problems I like grip-pods on my rifles, easy triggers, easy mag changes and reasonable prices = AR's are #1 for me.  
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