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Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
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Posted: 1/16/2016 1:38:01 AM EDT
Hello all.
I have a new A3 Nato stocked.  I just installed the TSM & Manticore Micro Switchback handle.  But I was left wondering if I should go ahead & mod the majority of my AR mags.

I have only a hundred rounds thru it so far but I can already see the chattering marks of the bolt catch on the bottom of the carrier.

Now I remember this being a topic with the SCAR crowd & remember seeing some pics of users AUG carriers as well.  But I have not seen or read anything about this in a while.  Searching only dug up those same threads & nothing new.  The bulk of my mags are gen 2 pmags.

My question is does the perceived damage get worse or will the wear subside (kind of like the brass marks on the stock)?

I am aware of the pmag fix where you just widen the notch in the back.  Or I could remove the bolt catch (but I rather just cut the mags).

What have you guys done?
Link Posted: 1/16/2016 10:55:41 AM EDT
[#1]
I did not know that there was a problem. My NATO stocked AUG came from Steyr with gen2 Pmags. I've been primarily using gen3 mags without a thought. What exactly is the use of them supposed to be damaging ?
Link Posted: 1/16/2016 12:10:58 PM EDT
[#2]
I guess I haven't heard about this either.  I have a 2014 NATO AUG.  About 10 days ago I did an extensive shooting session with my AUG after mounting a new optic.  I did a complete breakdown during the cleaning session and closely inspected all moving and wear related components out of curiosity to see how things are "wearing in"...only about 500 rounds through the gun at this time.  The gun's internals look relatively "out-of-the-box", of which I am quite impressed.  Now, the mags I use exclusively for my Tavor, AUG, and PLR16 are all G3 pmags, so maybe that possible wear issue doesn't apply.  I stick anything in my AR's ranging from MSAR, Promag, GI, etc., as they don't seem particular.
Link Posted: 1/17/2016 12:00:51 AM EDT
[#3]
It is a problem with the Tavor and SCAR. I have not looked at my Nato AUG to see if it also is present. Something to do tomorrow.
Link Posted: 1/17/2016 3:59:43 AM EDT
[#4]
For those not aware of the potential situation.
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=43&t=395321
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=43&t=381127

This is talking about the issue with the SCAR. But this is what is probably happening to some folks using NATO AUGs:
https://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=334942

I bought a NATO stocked AUG recently. Knowing full well of this issue. I'm not overly concerned about it. But I'm also not sure if it's something that could wear to a certain point and stop or not though.

Truth be told I'm not sure how big a "problem" it is. Nor do I know if it's like some internet things and way overblown. But I'm certain it's because of out of spec mags, like Pmags are. Sure they're great mags and tend to work in most guns that use AR mags. But they're not STANAG spec(yeah, yeah the STANAG thing was never actually adopted/in before someone from Magpul chimes in) and sometimes they can cause varying degrees of issues in some guns. Or not work in others. Simple fact. STANAG profile mags like the standard aluminum or steel mags work easily. But the polymer mags with their slightly different specs may cause big to small issues. Like the Gen 3 Pmag not working in the Beretta ARX and other guns  because of the over insertion tab Magpul think they needed to add.

That being said. Pmags and similar may cause this to happen. Or they may not.
Link Posted: 1/17/2016 1:15:25 PM EDT
[#5]
OK - I took some pictures this morning. AUG Nato stock and trigger pack.

Took a new M3 PMAG, new Lancer AWM and a newer USGI with a new improved anti tilt Magpul follower.
Checked with and without the followers on clearance of the bolt catch and bolt.

USGI - no issue with clearing the bolt and the bolt catch was dropped out of the way due to the mag having the square opening. Also with a newer follower it has the bolt hold open feature after the last round.


Lancer AWM - no issue with clearing the bolt - again a nice square opening and also works for the last round bolt hold open feature.


Magpul PMAG Gen 3 - the wider opening on the Gen 3 is smaller than the Lancer and USGI but allows the bolt and bolt catch to clear and does allow the bolt hold open after the last round.


Magpul Gen 2 - sold all of mine due to this issue with SCAR and TAVOR rifles. Plus I have a few old Colts that the Gen 2 PMAGS don't drop free and the Gen 3 sometimes hang up as well. The more narrow opening for the bolt catch on the Gen 2 mags causes the bolt hold open part to ride up and get hit by the bolt carrier as it moves back and forth.

Last Round Bolt hold open - PMAGS have a shorter rear catch. You can see here the follower height differences. The factory PMAG Gen3 follower is shorter than their replacement anti tilt followers.
Dropping the mags out of the AUG did not drop the bolt - it stayed locked back for all mags.

Link Posted: 1/18/2016 10:26:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Yes as Jack_Flag's posted links show.  The marks on the carrier should be easy to see - just look up your magwell.

^That is not my picture or parts.  But my carrier has already started showing similar signs.

Everything functions fine.  And I was aware of this issue beforehand.  I was just surprised to already see marks after only 1 short range trip.  Also I wanted to consult with this group & see if anyone has seen it get severe or will it "just kinda smooth itself out" with 1000's of rounds.

Link Posted: 1/19/2016 12:23:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yes as Jack_Flag's posted links show.  The marks on the carrier should be easy to see - just look up your magwell.
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab158/asicsig/S7303188.jpg
^That is not my picture or parts.  But my carrier has already started showing similar signs.

Everything functions fine.  And I was aware of this issue beforehand.  I was just surprised to already see marks after only 1 short range trip.  Also I wanted to consult with this group & see if anyone has seen it get severe or will it "just kinda smooth itself out" with 1000's of rounds.

View Quote

I wish I could help personally. But I just don't know yet. And I've done some reading and looking around. I haven't seen that question answered either.
Link Posted: 1/23/2016 2:00:11 AM EDT
[#8]
I have ran the hell outta my two nato augs and haven't seen any real wear? My carrier had the chatter marks on it like that from the start new from factory? I figured they were just that way? But after 1000s of rounds and only using p mags of all generations I have not noticed anything really out of the ordinary? My augs are all beast I love them, a truely fantastic weapon and tuff as hell.... I think you are good to go brother I will keep a eye on this thread and see what the masses say but I bet they are good to go...

I wounder if the guys at the machine gun rental places would be able to drop some knowledge of what their high round count  augs look like?
Link Posted: 2/25/2016 3:57:21 PM EDT
[#9]
I used to get the chatter marks on my carrier.
My AUG was lightly used by the previous owner, but had the chatter marks on the bottom of the cocking lug. I got more marks as I shot with GI mags and Pmags. Some jostling of the bolt catch is apparently causing it to bump into the carrier while it moves, causing the gouges. I also found evidence of this in my ARs, but with no gouges, as the tops of ar bolt stops are not sharp enough to leave a real mark.

I fixed the issue by taking the edge off the top of the bolt catch. Mine was originally made to come to a real point on the top edge of the catch. I found some pictures of various AUG trigger packs and saw that most do not come to the sharp point on top as mine does, so I dremeled mine to emulate the other bolt catches. I can post pictures if anybody cares.

I've only fired a couple hundred rounds since the fix, but I would have had several more marks in that amount of time before rounding the bolt catch. I think it's worth noting that I couldn't find any other rifle designs where the bolt catch came to a sharp point like mine did. I suspect a small change was made in the manufacturing that nobody thought twice about. My rifle was made in 2015 so it must be something recent or maybe they had some spare/defect bolt catches sitting around and somebody forgot why they were off in the corner in the first place.
Link Posted: 2/25/2016 4:13:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yes as Jack_Flag's posted links show.  The marks on the carrier should be easy to see - just look up your magwell.
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab158/asicsig/S7303188.jpg
^That is not my picture or parts.  But my carrier has already started showing similar signs.

Everything functions fine.  And I was aware of this issue beforehand.  I was just surprised to already see marks after only 1 short range trip.  Also I wanted to consult with this group & see if anyone has seen it get severe or will it "just kinda smooth itself out" with 1000's of rounds.

View Quote

I can't say for sure as I haven't shot more than 500 rounds through my AUG, but I fear that the marks on the cocking lug are creating a rough surface that will begin to wear aggressively on the AUG's polymer hammer. My hammer already has some pretty significant wear from my marked cocking lug in my opinion.

Since your AUG definitely exhibits the marking, could you post a picture of your bolt stop? The top part that would rub on the bolt carrier. I suspect an unintentionally sharp bolt catch is to blame for the BC marks.
The bolt catch in the picture you posted looks as sharp as mine before I modified it and stopped the marks.
Compare to this(not mine) bolt catch:
The green trigger pack is a Steyr unit. Note the rounded top edge of the bolt catch. My bolt catch came to a very sharp edge and I have the marks on my bolt carrier. I modified my bolt catch to copy the pictured one and I haven't got any new marks in a few hundred rounds. Bolt catch still has plenty of purchase on the bolt face.
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