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Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
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Posted: 1/18/2008 10:58:41 AM EDT
Please forgive me if this has been covered before. I’m a member, so I can only search back 30 days, and I haven’t found anything with regard to what I’m about to ask.

I recall M&A parts had a picture up a while back (may still be on their site) of an AR with a Glock mounted as a VFG. Now, I fully grasp the fact that it was essentially done as a joke, or merely in an exercise of “Look what I can do.”, but that would have made the Glock an SBR, correct? As it technically made the Glock a shoulder fired weapon with a rifled barrel under 16”, that would be the case, correct?

The distinction that I’m actually looking for is, in setting up a Masterkey system on an AR (3 round Rem 870) one could not legally use an AOW, because you’d be creating the condition of it being a shoulder fired weapon., and therefore, one must use a shotgun registered as an SBS to conform with current laws.

One more aspect, the Rifle and the Shotgun are still maintained as two separate firearm entities, even when connected. As in, the laws applying to one don’t carry over to the other, so an SBR AR-15 with a 14.5” (non perm) barrel could not have a Masterkey put on without the Shotgun being a separately legal SBS.

Or is it an exception, much like a <16” barrel on a select fire weapon? As an NFA registered Auto can have an SBR length barrel on it, with out a separate tax stamp (because it’s already an NFA weapon), could a shortened shotgun be created for the express purpose of affixing it to an SBR and maintain legality?

It'd be nice if that were the case, as I could save $200, but I'm resigned to the fact that it's still not do-able. Just thought it would be interesting to hear if anyone else had considered it.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 4:04:20 PM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:
Please forgive me if this has been covered before. I’m a member, so I can only search back 30 days, and I haven’t found anything with regard to what I’m about to ask.

I recall M&A parts had a picture up a while back (may still be on their site) of an AR with a Glock mounted as a VFG. Now, I fully grasp the fact that it was essentially done as a joke, or merely in an exercise of “Look what I can do.”, but that would have made the Glock an SBR, correct? As it technically made the Glock a shoulder fired weapon with a rifled barrel under 16”, that would be the case, correct?

The distinction that I’m actually looking for is, in setting up a Masterkey system on an AR (3 round Rem 870) one could not legally use an AOW, because you’d be creating the condition of it being a shoulder fired weapon., and therefore, one must use a shotgun registered as an SBS to conform with current laws.

One more aspect, the Rifle and the Shotgun are still maintained as two separate firearm entities, even when connected. As in, the laws applying to one don’t carry over to the other, so an SBR AR-15 with a 14.5” (non perm) barrel could not have a Masterkey put on without the Shotgun being a separately legal SBS.

Or is it an exception, much like a <16” barrel on a select fire weapon? As an NFA registered Auto can have an SBR length barrel on it, with out a separate tax stamp (because it’s already an NFA weapon), could a shortened shotgun be created for the express purpose of affixing it to an SBR and maintain legality?

It'd be nice if that were the case, as I could save $200, but I'm resigned to the fact that it's still not do-able. Just thought it would be interesting to hear if anyone else had considered it.



This is true if the rec.  is the registered MG.  Say it is an HK sear,  then if you do not have the sear in the gun it has to be an SBR and another 200 bucks.  I believe the over all opinion was that if you did mount a shotty on the quad rail it has to be a SBS.  I believe it had to do with the serial number and the fact that it was actually a shotgun and not just a bolt on addition to another weapon.


BIGFOOT
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 7:08:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 7:20:12 PM EDT
[#3]
That's what I had calculated, based on the masterkey being a separate usable weapon with a serial number. Your point about the suppressor brings it all home.
Thanks guys. Just thinking things over.
SBS it is.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 4:50:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Sorry for the hijack but if you cut down a drilling (I shudder to even type that) or a combo gun (rifle/shotgun) would it be a SBR, SBS or ??
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 5:31:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 5:54:36 AM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sorry for the hijack but if you cut down a drilling (I shudder to even type that) or a combo gun (rifle/shotgun) would it be a SBR, SBS or ??

A combination long gun with both rifled and smoothbore barrels does not fit the definition of either a rifle or shotgun; if you cut down the barrels, it would require registration as an AOW, since it is neither an SBR nor an SBS.


Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 6:05:16 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
Sorry for the hijack but if you cut down a drilling (I shudder to even type that) or a combo gun (rifle/shotgun) would it be a SBR, SBS or ??


I keep thinking about doing that w/ one of the Savage combo guns in 12 ga / 30-30.  We can't have SBS here.  That would let me do something very similar as an AOW for a low price. (But I'd still have to pay $200 if I do it myself.  Would probably dig up a C2 and have them cut it & register it.)
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 6:08:37 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sorry for the hijack but if you cut down a drilling (I shudder to even type that) or a combo gun (rifle/shotgun) would it be a SBR, SBS or ??


I keep thinking about doing that w/ one of the Savage combo guns in 12 ga / 30-30.  We can't have SBS here.  That would let me do something very similar as an AOW for a low price. (But I'd still have to pay $200 if I do it myself.  Would probably dig up a C2 and have them cut it & register it.)


I have seen several of those for sale. Alot of people also did that with those M6 Scout .22/.410 Rifle/Shotguns.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 6:09:08 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sorry for the hijack but if you cut down a drilling (I shudder to even type that) or a combo gun (rifle/shotgun) would it be a SBR, SBS or ??


I keep thinking about doing that w/ one of the Savage combo guns in 12 ga / 30-30.  We can't have SBS here.  That would let me do something very similar as an AOW for a low price. (But I'd still have to pay $200 if I do it myself.  Would probably dig up a C2 and have them cut it & register it.)


Would you have to keep the barrel length between 12-18" to keep it from being a DD if it was shorter than 12"?
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 6:25:13 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
Would you have to keep the barrel length between 12-18" to keep it from being a DD if it was shorter than 12"?


I'm honestly not sure what it would be if you were outside the barrell length for an AOW of that configuration.  
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 6:36:08 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Would you have to keep the barrel length between 12-18" to keep it from being a DD if it was shorter than 12"?


I'm honestly not sure what it would be if you were outside the barrell length for an AOW of that configuration.  


Hafta wait until tony_k comes along to set us all straight.

Seems like he is not only the class3 moderator but also the publisher/editor of everything that is written for C3. He said somewhere that he didn't, but I swear he wrote the book.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 8:21:35 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 9:57:25 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
landmines.



And what class are they?
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 10:25:22 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
landmines.



And what class are they?


DD of course
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 10:41:35 AM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
I have seen several of those for sale. Alot of people also did that with those M6 Scout .22/.410 Rifle/Shotguns.


I have thought about cutting down a M6, but don't really see the point other than historical accuracy if you want a clone of the real thing.  The Savage combo shotgun /rifle tempts me bacause I want a SBS and can't get one.  I also like wierd guns.  What I've been thinking about is cutting one down to about 12" and modifying it to take one of the AK side folding stocks.  The problem is it would end up costing me $800+ by the time I got the gun, paid for the stamp & cut it, and I can't afford it right now.  Especially for something which is a toy in the long run.
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