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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/6/2002 1:36:53 PM EDT
O.K. I was using CCI primers but since I was using hollow points I was feeding them one at a time. The bolt was held back by the mag. I inserted the round manualy into the chamber.
When I released the bolt the rifle fired!
My best guess is it was a defective primer because the indentation was blown outwards like on a hot load. Has anyone else ever had this happen to them. I think this is probably a rare ocurrence. (yes my rifle was clean)
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 1:57:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 2:01:09 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 2:13:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:07:03 PM EDT
Thanks guys for the info...main lesson to learn with an AR is when the bolt slams "home" make sure your rifle is pointed in a SAFE direction!!!(lucky I did that) This is like one of those things you don't think it can happen till it happens to you ;-).
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:11:45 PM EDT
Another thing that might help prevent this is to load the round in a magazine insted of putting them in the chamber. That way when the bolt hits the round and strips it from the magazine it will lose a little momentum in the process. You could also switch to a lighter weight firing pin if your going to use non-military primers.

Tony
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:43:28 PM EDT
Thanks Tony!

A guy at the range saw what happened. He said he was ex-military markesman(seemed to know what he was talking about) and he suggested the same thing. Load the mag first instead of directly in the chamber.

A problem I had with handloads was the bullet sliping back into the shell. When this happened it wouldn't feed. The guy at the range said that sometimes they "DO" feed and can cause dangerous situations.

I am going to take his advice and give up re-loading .223 (semi-auto). I will keep my re-loading for "bolt" actions ;-).

(just for any objections, I am "new" to re-loading so I better stay "safe" than sorry ;-)for you experts just do your thing :-).
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:47:36 PM EDT
Glad to hear that you are a SAFE shooter and kept your muzzle pointed in a safe zone!!!
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 4:48:40 PM EDT
Yikes...this could have ended badly. Glad you're okay....

Regards,
Gary
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 4:53:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jim58:
O.K. I was using CCI primers but since I was using hollow points I was feeding them one at a time.



Why does using hollow points preclude loading them in the magazine like FMJ? I have never felt a need to single load my gollow piont loads.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:01:40 PM EDT

I always run my finger over the primers when packing my reloads on strippers to feel for high primers. I find feel seems to work better than sight in this case.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:13:58 PM EDT
My understandng is hollow points catch on the feed ramps sometimes pushing the bullet into the shell.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:01:12 PM EDT
I load Hornady 68gr BTHP for my AR all the time and never noticed a malfuntion or excessive pressure loading from the mag. Although I have witnessed and have experienced slam-fire by dropping the bolt on a loaded chamber before and would not recomend it, the bolt travels forward with enough momentum and when it slams closed the firing pin still carries enough momentum to ignite the primer. From what I believe the combination of the bolt hitting the rear of the bullet along with the firing pin hitting the primer causes the rifle to go bang.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:25:09 PM EDT
I had that happen earlier this year at a highpower match. We were shooting standing (slowfire, single load) and the match director was behind me. The bullet impacted some 35-40 yds downrange. These were my standard shortline load and I was using older WSR primers. Since these are also my rapidfire ammo, I check each round in a case gauge and feel for high primers. The only thing we could come up with is that the Jewell trigger had not reset completely and the hammer followed the carrier down. The case showed no deformities, so the locking lugs were engaged when the round went off.

Repeat after me.....Don't let your muzzle cover anything you don't want to shoot

SRM
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:50:27 PM EDT
In regard to bullets being pushed into the case when the round was chambered, try crimping with the Lee Factory Crimp die. I use it with both cannelured and non-cannelured bullets. With the 77 gr Sierra Match King, I get slightly better accuracy with the crimp than without. It should prevent your bullets being pushed int the case.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 7:07:07 PM EDT
If the rifle has a mag, it generally a good idea to use it.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 5:12:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jim58:
My understandng is hollow points catch on the feed ramps sometimes pushing the bullet into the shell.


Correct – it seems to vary from gun to gun depending, I guess, on how deep and how smooth the feed ramps were cut.

When the AR was first adopted by the military, it was found that it was prone to slam fires when a round was feed directly into the chamber and the bolt let go on it. The firing pin was long ago lightened to minimize this.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 7:19:03 PM EDT
Reloading for the AR-15

- The most important step is to make sure the primers are slightly sub-flush, about 3 to 8 thousandths is correct.

- Primer type is not critical if it is seated to the proper depth. The "mil-spec" CCI primers are not necessary to prevent slamfires in this rifle. Avoid Winchester Small Rifle primers because the current batches have such thin and/or weak cups that they are prone to piercing at moderate charge weights.

- The neck tension you are getting with the die and case combination you are using is insufficient. Try sizing some cases with the expander ball removed from the die - this will eliminate stretching the case neck and expanding the neck too much, and it might fix your problem. You can turn the expander ball down a few thousandths by chucking it in a drill and applying abrasive. If you size with the expander ball, be sure to lubricate the inside of the case neck.

Buying new cases [buy Winchester, not Federal, not Remington, not anything else**] might help the neck tension problem, but it won't be the final solution. **Norma or Lapua will work, but they are very expensive and certainly not necessary at your stage of learning.

You can buy bushing type sizing dies for better control of neck tension and sizing, but you should probably try the steps above first.

To test for sufficient neck tension, seat a bullet (in an unprimed and uncharged) to the normal depth. Hold the dummy cartridge by the case and push it into the edge of your bench - you should be able to lean on the cartridge without seating the bullet deeper. This is good neck tension. You will develop a feel for correct neck tension while you are seating the bullet with a little practice.

- Crimping. Do it if you must, but it is not necessary as proven by thousands and thousands of reloaded rounds shot in AR's every week in this country. Don't bother to spend your money on match grade bullets if you crimp.

- Single Loading AR type rifles
Push the cartridge completely into the chamber, then release the bolt. If the primer seating depth is correct, it should not slamfire. If you allow the bolt to carry a cartridge into the chamber from rest on top of a magazine follower (type doesn't matter), it might slamfire.

- Don't waste your money on titanium firing pins in hopes of curing this problem.

- Every hollow point, .224 diameter match bullet manufactured will feed from the magazine in an AR. The hollow point opening is a tiny fraction of the bullet diameter - the barrel extension is screwed up if it won't feed these bullets. Even the 75 to 80 grain bullets intended for single loading will feed from the magazine if seated deep enough.

This story about misfeeding "hollow points" is just plain malarkey.

- Here is one other detail to be alert to. Accidental dishcarges mistaken for slamfires are possible if you have a trigger with a very light trigger pull and an extended bolt release lever installed. It is very easy to touch the trigger and fire the rifle when the bolt release is tripped with the trigger finger - been there and done that!
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 2:52:31 PM EDT
The rifle is designed to strip the round out ouf a mag not loaded manually, Loading manually lets the bolt hit at a faster rate and can cause a slamfire.
GG
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 2:55:54 PM EDT
I was gonna say what Gun Guru said... I thought this was common knowlege. Load only from a mag.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 8:04:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 2:16:56 AM EDT
Thanks everyone for all the good advice :-)!!!
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 4:59:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
I was gonna say what Gun Guru said... I thought this was common knowlege. Load only from a mag.



That's not possible in highpower/DCM/CMP shooting stages unless you want to break position, drop a mag, insert one round , ect.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 7:11:48 AM EDT
AeroE: For me personally, I can't get my handloaded rounds primers to just below flush so that it will fire, it was kind of a hit or miss thing; and a real royal pain when you pull the trigger and if it didn't fire because the primer was seated too deep. And because you just can't pull the charging hand back and eject the offending round. It was stuck in the chamber real tight.

When I loaded the 223Rem rounds, I just used ordinary rifle primers and a titanium firing pin which eliminated all slam-fire probs. When I was doing DCM, it was scary when you close the bolt and get a slam fire.

Some people say that titanium firing pins don't last, the comapany that manufactured my pin said that there is on in a M16 with a Ti pin that has 20,000 rounds thru it. They said as long as you don't get a pierced primer with a Ti pin which causes firing pin tip erosion and subsequent sharp edges, the pin should last as long as a steel one. But 223 ammo surplus is so cheap and readily available, why deal with the hassles of reloading that stuff to begin with. Of course if you are loading for maximum accurcy that is horse of a different color.
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 8:22:48 AM EDT
Titanium firing pins are a waste of money. According to Armalite's web site, you can find interesting news on why that company is AGAINST the use of Ti firing pins. Basically it's a sales gimmick.

I'd follow the good advice the others gave here regarding reloading procedures and primer information etc...
Link Posted: 7/9/2002 1:08:07 PM EDT
O.K. THEN JUST AS A GENERAL RULE>>WHEN YOU CHAMBERLOAD AN AR EXPECT A "SLAM FIRE" ONCE IN A WHILE. When I checked my fired rounds one of them had the primer indentation bulged outward so in my case I am thinking it was defective primer maybe made too thin......

I would just place a "caution" that chamber loaded rounds with bolt sent home can cause accidental discarges.
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