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Posted: 10/8/2004 10:28:28 PM EST
I've seen most people recommend the 870 for home defense. So once I started looking to buy one, I've seen some are DLX, others are Express. What modle should I be looking for. So far I know I should try to get a 20in barrel but that's about it.

Thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 10:48:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 10:49:30 PM EST by HardShell]
My personal advice (worth what you're paying for it & you'll hear plenty of others that don't agree) is to find an old, used "beater" 870 (any 12 gauge model, any barrel length/style) for $125-150 (I see beat-up ones down here in that price range all the time), then send it to Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies for the Remington Steal deal. For about $200, they will shorten the barrel, replace any broken/problem parts, install the FlexTab feeding system, upgrade to a magnum chamber (if necessary), refinish the entire weapon, replace the original furniture with a new compact synthetic stock set, and ship it back to you. You then have a custom-built combat shotgun for little more than the price of a new entry-level model. One of my very best 870s was an old beater I did just that with. (When the Photo Server is back up & running, I'll post a picture of it here.)
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:51:28 AM EST
HardShell - If that price includes an extended mag, that's not a bad plan - otherwise, I think he'd be better off buying a used 870 smoothbore slug gun, and installing an extended mag - and maybe ghost ring sights - it might not look quite as pretty as a gun re-done by Wilson, but will be more functioal for the same money - and hey, he isn't building a safe queen, right?... I've seen Wilson's work, though - I think they call it their "870 Steal" - and it's quite good...


Teknic - Like Hardshell, I'd recommend not shying away from a used 870 - there are some great deals out there to be had, and there's nothing to worry about when it comes to buying one used... There's not too much than can possibly get screwed up on an 870, and you can't wear one out - and IF for some reason you do have problems with it, Remington will make it right... In my experience, they stand behind their guns, old and new... I'm a HUGE fan of the 870 - owned over half a dozen over a 25plus year span - and they've ALL been outstanding - best pump gun ever made, IMO - not to mention the opinions of another 6 million customers or so...


- georgestrings
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:08:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:25:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 7:33:06 AM EST by Teknic]
I'm looking in the EE now and see a police trade 870 Mag with 18 barrel for $250. What do you think?

I went to the Wilson Combat site. Man, that is a sweet looking deal.

Thanks,

John
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:29:22 AM EST
Mike's suggestion sounds pretty solid to me, actually...


- georgestrings
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:05:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:26:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 4:37:02 PM EST by Teknic]
The used gun idea sounded good at first but Mike103 seems to have a valid point. I see a 5077 for $300. Is that model better than having one redone by Wilson Combat?

Besides parkerizing, what other advantage is there going with Wilson Combat?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:15:25 PM EST
I took mike's advise and bought a 5077 for $300 and added a surefire (thanks mike BTW). The only thing mine might be lacking is ghost ring sights.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:30:29 PM EST
Which Surefire did you add?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:30:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By mike103:
The model #5077 is a 12 Gauge 870 Express w/18" improved cylinder bore barrel, 3" chamber, synethic stock, 7 shot extended mag with the dull matte finish for 300 dollars. You can't beat that...




I have to agree - I wasn't aware that model was available at that price. Sounds like he did the best thing.


FWIW, here is the one I was talking about (now that the server's working):

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:08:54 AM EST
Personally I would buy one of those 870 security/home defense express shotguns. You can get those for around $200. Already comes with extended mag and so forth. If you want to make it really function
call jason at outdoor america in OKC. FOr about $200 more he backbores it, lengthen the forcing cone, ports the barrell, installs a choke and does a fuction check. They cycle the action 500 plus times
(how whould you like that job??). I am getting ready to send him an 870 to do for me. They claim
and I have heard confirmations, that there mods will keep all 8 of the reduced 8 pellet 00 busk in a standard cleet target at 35+ yards. Cleet targets are a lot smaller than a b27. Add a good recoil bad
(simms vibration dampener) and for less than $450 you have a real, bran new combat shoutgun that will outperform any stock police shotgun and on par (better?) than vangcomp or other custom shotgun.
I could of saved my self some money if I went that route..Instead I bought a used 870 police.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 5:20:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Teknic:
Which Surefire did you add?



618fa.

Retail is $235, but I got mine for around $180.
They also ,make a brighter surefire forend, the 918fa, and I was worried that the 618 would not be bright enough. For a test, I had a helper point the surefire at me from 10' away in a lighted room, with my eyes closed and my hands covering my eyes. It was painfully bright still and I saw halos (best way I can think to describe it) for a minute or so afterwards. I can't imagine how bright the 918 or even the optional higher output 618 lamp is. It is plenty bright.



Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:23:07 PM EST
OK lawman, I've got a couple of questions about this mod. Sounds real cool. What choke does he add?? Does he modify the existing barrel, or is it some kind of extra unit? I don't understand how alot of this works so if my questions seem stupid, it's because I'm a shotgun knownothing. What choke is it modified, full, you know what I mean?

How big is one of them targets you are talking about?

What is lengthening the forcing cone?

What is back boring? Somebody told me once and I forgot.

Last question I got pertains to some hardware I got. I have an old H & R bolt action shotgun. On the end of it is a twist type choke. It starts at IC and goes down to full as you twist it. It appears that maybe it could come off. Has anyone ever heard of these? And is it possible to have it removed and put it on a mossberg I got now? And are they any good or should I just get a barrel with a choke in it? I have a 24" slug barrel (not rifled) with rifle sights. It shoots slugs well but I'm afraid patterning is not so good at extended ranges. Of course I've done very little patterning yet but it sort of seems a choke is the way to go if you plan on reaching out there like especially for geese or in my case some coyotes. Or a SHTF scenario (which to me is unlikely but still remotely possible). Any info is appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:13:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 6:26:46 PM EST by mike103]
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:19:05 PM EST
OK mike I did that. It didn't necessarily tell me all there is to know about these intracacies of the shotgun though. Most of it I already sort of knew. For example, I learned that it's not a good idea to shoot a slug in an "overbored" barrel, according to mossberg. But they didn't go into detail about backboring. And I understand what the forcing cone is, although I didn't read anythning about that either. I understand what it is because I can see it when cleaning my barrel. But don't know what lengthining it out would do??? It seems it would make it less accurate for slugs though in my thinking. I'm guessing there is no barrel that would be real good for slugs and real good for shot all at the same time. How do these tactical people do it then?? I'm guessing slugs are more of an afterthought since multiple projections would be the benefit of a shotgun??? The le's like the slugs though. I'm thinking I may buy that 20" mossberg smooth barrel with the ventilated rib and accuset choke for my shot shooting. And possibly getting a IC choke and seeing if I could do well with it using slugs too. And instead of backboring or cone lengthening maybe I'll just get it ported so that it can still shoot slugs through it. It'd be nice if there was a twist choke so you could transition from shot to slugs or vice versa in very little time. Can you shoot a slug through a say modified or full choke??? Will it hurt the choke or will it just be less accurate??? Thank you mike for putting up with me. Right now I'm just like a sponge about this because I know very little. I know Rifles and pistols, but until now I have not ventured into the shotgun territory very far. But it's very fun and I see it's benefits. The downside is it means MORE MONEY SPENT. Oh well, can't take it with me when I die!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:51:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:20:15 PM EST
Well, my hopes and dreams all got dashed to pieces today!!! (slight bit of melodrama there). The limbsaver pad I got doesn't fit the wood stock!!!!!!!! Rats. The bass pro site doesn't really say that it won't. And if I'm reading this thing right, it doesn't look like they make one that will. I could probably swap it for a grind to fit type. But I'm going to contact them to see what's next. That's kind of the bad thing about buying from these places. It's a learn as you go thing and there's really not alot of help. If you call customer service, it's been my experience I know more than them and that's ok. They're not armorer's, their order takers. And I bought a REDHEAD sling that will simply not work with my gun. It appears it would be good on a bolt action gun but the studs are just too far apart. It's actually a slick little sling but here again, won't work. Well beyond that my next dillema is to think about if I want to buy the synthetic stock. I really like the wood but I'm not all that against synthetic either. But my gun is blued. I could paint the stock a lighter color and it may look better with the blueing. And I still don't know what the heck I'm going to do about barrels. You say you got 24 or more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! holy cripes!!!!!!!!! My goal has always been to get it set up one way and have it do as much as possible. But that may be just unrealistic. I won't be doing much wingshooting so I don't necessarily have to have a longer barrel. My ideal barrel would be 21-22 inches long, good sights and an adjustable choke that if you wanted to take a longer shot with shot, you could just twist it, and if You thought it was up close or slugs, leave it more open. Can I get a witness here!!!!! I doubt there is such a thing. Plus I don't know if them screw chokes are any good anyways. Well, am I crazy here or what???
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:39:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 8:30:47 AM EST
I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR. BUT MY IDEA FOR THE IDEAL BARREL AINT BAD IS IT???? IT SEEMS IT WOULD NEARLY BE PERFECT. AT LEAST FOR ME. THANKS FOR THE VANG COMP INFO. I MAY EXPLORE THAT AVENUE TOO!! SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD MOD.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:35:57 AM EST
Does anyone have a suggested online retailer for the Remington 870 Express HD setup?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:46:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:58:23 AM EST
Thanks Mike.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 12:00:37 AM EST
I looked at vang comp and he is high on his price. When I spoke of outdoor america, And no I doent work for them, it was cause they had the cheapest price and the best anwsers around. Vang comps peeps were assholes when I called. Oa recomends a modified choke for buck as you can still fire slugs.
If you don want a choke it is almost half of the price of vang comps. They even got a write up in Guns and weapons for law enforcement. I just think it is a good deal. Personaly I am going to have the full tilt done but I am going to use a pattern master "choke". It is really no a choke at all but does remarkable things to a shotguns patterns, It's design actually slows down the wad for a micro second allowing the shot no to be disturbed by the wad or gases as much. I think with the barrel porting it will be a real winner. It is the official choke of SWAT magazine. In their adds the show a OO buck pattern at 25 yards that you can cover with the palm of your hand. As for recoil If you really want to knock it down go with the hogue compstock. I sing it's vertues loud and long. I paid $65 for mine and it was the best money I ever spent. GOing to qualify use to be a teeror. I was in a BAD car wreck in my youth and it causes neck problems which causes extreme headaches. Those 12 gauge maximum slugs we shoot for qualifying feel like skeet loads. Instead of dreading the range I am enjoying it again.
A cleet target is a lil smaller than the 8 ring in a B27 if that helps. They claim it will keep all 9 pellets in at 28 yards.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 9:18:10 PM EST
Oklahoma co so uses backbored shotguns> Their course of fire goes out to 185 yards. Must not hurt accurcy to bad??
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:42:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:40:22 AM EST
That is what OKLA county requires in one of their qualifiers. I have troble at 100 yard hitting a pepper popper. they must be better shots than I am .
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 10:33:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 12:14:11 PM EST
I dont know if it is an actual part of their qualifier or a skills builder. I sure coudn't do it with a shotgun. Thats why I have a ar. It is like my brothers dept. They do a pepper popper drill at 100
yards..with a handgun. Again that is why I have an ar.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:50:49 PM EST
How big is a pepper popper. I've heard that term a million times but I don't know how big it is. Or are there different sizes?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:00:56 PM EST
There are different sizes. the ones we shoot are about 2 feet high with an 8 inch circle target area. You must hit them at the top of that area or the will not fall.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:22:43 AM EST
Mike,

thanks for your advice on the 5077. What slug or buck is a good all around home defence load?
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 9:43:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 9:44:57 AM EST by mike103]
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 10:01:15 AM EST
i agree with mike get the brand that best patterns in your shotgun. Usually if you stay with the tactical
series of buckshot you will be happier. It usually uses low flash powder. Is hard plated for less deformation, and thus tighter groups. It is a lil lower velocity but your shoulder will thank you for the reduced recoil. The same goes with the slug..go tactical.
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