User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/8/2004 11:48:15 PM EDT
[#1]
My personal advice (worth what you're paying for it & you'll hear plenty of others that don't agree) is to find an old, used "beater" 870 (any 12 gauge model, any barrel length/style) for $125-150 (I see beat-up ones down here in that price range all the time), then send it to Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies for the Remington Steal deal. For about $200, they will shorten the barrel, replace any broken/problem parts, install the FlexTab feeding system, upgrade to a magnum chamber (if necessary), refinish the entire weapon, replace the original furniture with a new compact synthetic stock set, and ship it back to you. You then have a custom-built combat shotgun for little more than the price of a new entry-level model. One of my very best 870s was an old beater I did just that with. (When the Photo Server is back up & running, I'll post a picture of it here.)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2004 7:51:28 AM EDT
[#2]
HardShell - If that price includes an extended mag, that's not a bad plan - otherwise, I think he'd be better off buying a used 870 smoothbore slug gun, and installing an extended mag - and maybe ghost ring sights - it might not look quite as pretty as a gun re-done by Wilson, but will be more functioal for the same money - and hey, he isn't building a safe queen, right?... I've seen Wilson's work, though - I think they call it their "870 Steal" - and it's quite good...
Teknic - Like Hardshell, I'd recommend not shying away from a used 870 - there are some great deals out there to be had, and there's nothing to worry about when it comes to buying one used... There's not too much than can possibly get screwed up on an 870, and you can't wear one out - and IF for some reason you do have problems with it, Remington will make it right... In my experience, they stand behind their guns, old and new... I'm a HUGE fan of the 870 - owned over half a dozen over a 25plus year span - and they've ALL been outstanding - best pump gun ever made, IMO - not to mention the opinions of another 6 million customers or so... - georgestrings |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2004 8:08:12 AM EDT
[#3]
Or you can buy the model # 5077 for three hundred dollars and be done with it. MIKE.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2004 8:25:00 AM EDT
[#4]
I'm looking in the EE now and see a police trade 870 Mag with 18 barrel for $250. What do you think?
I went to the Wilson Combat site. Man, that is a sweet looking deal. Thanks, John |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2004 8:29:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Mike's suggestion sounds pretty solid to me, actually...
- georgestrings |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2004 5:05:26 PM EDT
[#6]
The model #5077 is a 12 Gauge 870 Express w/18" improved cylinder bore barrel, 3" chamber, synethic stock, 7 shot extended mag with the dull matte finish for 300 dollars. You can't beat that.
Even if you want the police model I priced the #4903. It is a 12 gauge 870 police magnum w/18" barrel, 3" chamber, wood stock, 7 shot extended mag with a parkerized finish. It goes for about 400 dollars. Why screw around with a used gun that has to be sent out when you can buy new for cheaper or the same price? MIKE |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2004 5:26:47 PM EDT
[#7]
The used gun idea sounded good at first but Mike103 seems to have a valid point. I see a 5077 for $300. Is that model better than having one redone by Wilson Combat?
Besides parkerizing, what other advantage is there going with Wilson Combat? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2004 7:15:25 PM EDT
[#8]
I took mike's advise and bought a 5077 for $300 and added a surefire (thanks mike BTW). The only thing mine might be lacking is ghost ring sights.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2004 8:30:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Which Surefire did you add?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/9/2004 8:30:57 PM EDT
[#10]
I have to agree - I wasn't aware that model was available at that price. Sounds like he did the best thing. FWIW, here is the one I was talking about (now that the server's working): 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/10/2004 10:08:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Personally I would buy one of those 870 security/home defense express shotguns. You can get those for around $200. Already comes with extended mag and so forth. If you want to make it really function
call jason at outdoor america in OKC. FOr about $200 more he backbores it, lengthen the forcing cone, ports the barrell, installs a choke and does a fuction check. They cycle the action 500 plus times (how whould you like that job??). I am getting ready to send him an 870 to do for me. They claim and I have heard confirmations, that there mods will keep all 8 of the reduced 8 pellet 00 busk in a standard cleet target at 35+ yards. Cleet targets are a lot smaller than a b27. Add a good recoil bad (simms vibration dampener) and for less than $450 you have a real, bran new combat shoutgun that will outperform any stock police shotgun and on par (better?) than vangcomp or other custom shotgun. I could of saved my self some money if I went that route..Instead I bought a used 870 police. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/10/2004 6:20:00 PM EDT
[#12]
618fa. Retail is $235, but I got mine for around $180. They also ,make a brighter surefire forend, the 918fa, and I was worried that the 618 would not be bright enough. For a test, I had a helper point the surefire at me from 10' away in a lighted room, with my eyes closed and my hands covering my eyes. It was painfully bright still and I saw halos (best way I can think to describe it) for a minute or so afterwards. I can't imagine how bright the 918 or even the optional higher output 618 lamp is. It is plenty bright. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2004 5:23:07 PM EDT
[#13]
OK lawman, I've got a couple of questions about this mod. Sounds real cool. What choke does he add?? Does he modify the existing barrel, or is it some kind of extra unit? I don't understand how alot of this works so if my questions seem stupid, it's because I'm a shotgun knownothing. What choke is it modified, full, you know what I mean?
How big is one of them targets you are talking about? What is lengthening the forcing cone? What is back boring? Somebody told me once and I forgot. Last question I got pertains to some hardware I got. I have an old H & R bolt action shotgun. On the end of it is a twist type choke. It starts at IC and goes down to full as you twist it. It appears that maybe it could come off. Has anyone ever heard of these? And is it possible to have it removed and put it on a mossberg I got now? And are they any good or should I just get a barrel with a choke in it? I have a 24" slug barrel (not rifled) with rifle sights. It shoots slugs well but I'm afraid patterning is not so good at extended ranges. Of course I've done very little patterning yet but it sort of seems a choke is the way to go if you plan on reaching out there like especially for geese or in my case some coyotes. Or a SHTF scenario (which to me is unlikely but still remotely possible). Any info is appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/11/2004 7:13:54 PM EDT
[#14]
JJ, You need to go to the Remington web site, click on support and go to the reading room. Also stop by at the Mossberg web site a hit the FAQ's. You need some basic shotgun reading. MIKE.
Back-boring/Over-boring: increasing the bore diameter to reduce perceived recoil, improve patterns and increase shot-velocity. Existing guns can be backbored and new guns may be designed with overboring as one of their features. In use, they amount to the same thing. The choke on the end of your H&R Shotgun is called a poychoke. It is not removable. Forcing cone: section of the barrel in which the diameter of the chamber holding the shell, tapers over a short distance to the smaller bore diameter. The tapered area in the barrel just forward of the chamber is the forcing cone. 1½” is thought by some to be the ideal length but this can change in the future. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/12/2004 4:19:05 PM EDT
[#15]
OK mike I did that. It didn't necessarily tell me all there is to know about these intracacies of the shotgun though. Most of it I already sort of knew. For example, I learned that it's not a good idea to shoot a slug in an "overbored" barrel, according to mossberg. But they didn't go into detail about backboring. And I understand what the forcing cone is, although I didn't read anythning about that either. I understand what it is because I can see it when cleaning my barrel. But don't know what lengthining it out would do??? It seems it would make it less accurate for slugs though in my thinking. I'm guessing there is no barrel that would be real good for slugs and real good for shot all at the same time. How do these tactical people do it then?? I'm guessing slugs are more of an afterthought since multiple projections would be the benefit of a shotgun??? The le's like the slugs though. I'm thinking I may buy that 20" mossberg smooth barrel with the ventilated rib and accuset choke for my shot shooting. And possibly getting a IC choke and seeing if I could do well with it using slugs too. And instead of backboring or cone lengthening maybe I'll just get it ported so that it can still shoot slugs through it. It'd be nice if there was a twist choke so you could transition from shot to slugs or vice versa in very little time. Can you shoot a slug through a say modified or full choke??? Will it hurt the choke or will it just be less accurate??? Thank you mike for putting up with me. Right now I'm just like a sponge about this because I know very little. I know Rifles and pistols, but until now I have not ventured into the shotgun territory very far. But it's very fun and I see it's benefits. The downside is it means MORE MONEY SPENT. Oh well, can't take it with me when I die!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2004 3:51:27 AM EDT
[#16]
JJ, this is from the Vang Comp web site. Having this done to your barrel is great for a barrel to shoot mostly buckshot thru a short barrel for defense only. For hunting with buckshot you are better off with screw in chokes. From reading this you will learn more about back boring and lengthening the forcing cone.
If you think you are going to get away with one barrel and one shotgun for everything I got news for you big guy! I have 24-25 barrels for my 870', 1100's and 500's and I still need more! Shotguns are like golf clubs you need several dozen! So just belly up to the bar and get with the program, open up you wallet and start spending because it is a long way down this rat hole of shot gun shooting! MIKE. The Vang Comp Systemâ The Vang Comp System (VCS), designed by gunsmith Hans J. Vang, is a set of modifications to shotgun barrels. The alterations to the barrel consist of lengthening the forcing cone, back-boring the barrel, and adding compensating ports. With the VCS, accuracy significantly improves, felt recoil is dramatically reduced, and muzzle rise diminishes. By lengthening the forcing cone, the pellets have a smooth flow from the chamber to the bore. This prevents the pellets from bunching up in the barrel and reduces the felt recoil. In addition, the pellets do not become as deformed and keep a more consistent shape. With less deformation and a less turbulent flow, the pellets achieve a higher rate of accuracy. Back-boring the barrel is accomplished by boring the barrel from the chamber towards the muzzle creating a choke where there was none. Back-boring is a key portion of the VCS modification and aids in both increasing accuracy and reducing felt recoil. Probably one of the most important and most obvious parts of the VCS are the compensating ports. Some of the gases, created by the burnt powder exiting the muzzle, vent upward through the ports. This redirected gas flow helps prevent the muzzle from rising and allows for both increased accuracy and a more rapid recovery time between shots. Also, the ports reduce muzzle flash, which in turn helps to retain night vision and keep the shooters location less conspicuous in low light conditions. In combination, the lengthened forcing cone, the back-boring, and the compensating ports make up the Vang Comp System. The VCS has been estimated to reduce felt recoil by about 15%. The increase in accuracy is dramatic. For example, patterns using 9 pellet 00 buck are as tight as 2 3/4" at 15 yards and 10 to 12" at 25 yards. Also of note, all modifications, except the compensating ports, are internal. No extra parts are added to the barrel. Thus, the VCS barrel requires no maintenance other than normal cleaning. Also, other types of specialty ammunition, such as slugs, can be used in the Vang Comp System. The VCS, developed to maximize performance of the tactical shotgun for Law Enforcement and Military applications, is covered by three U.S. Patents. Currently only Mr. Vang's California facility produces the VCS. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2004 5:20:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Well, my hopes and dreams all got dashed to pieces today!!! (slight bit of melodrama there). The limbsaver pad I got doesn't fit the wood stock!!!!!!!! Rats.
 The bass pro site doesn't really say that it won't. And if I'm reading this thing right, it doesn't look like they make one that will. I could probably swap it for a grind to fit type. But I'm going to contact them to see what's next. That's kind of the bad thing about buying from these places. It's a learn as you go thing and there's really not alot of help. If you call customer service, it's been my experience I know more than them and that's ok. They're not armorer's, their order takers. And I bought a REDHEAD sling that will simply not work with my gun. It appears it would be good on a bolt action gun but the studs are just too far apart. It's actually a slick little sling but here again, won't work. Well beyond that my next dillema is to think about if I want to buy the synthetic stock. I really like the wood but I'm not all that against synthetic either. But my gun is blued. I could paint the stock a lighter color and it may look better with the blueing. And I still don't know what the heck I'm going to do about barrels. You say you got 24 or more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! holy cripes!!!!!!!!! My goal has always been to get it set up one way and have it do as much as possible. But that may be just unrealistic. I won't be doing much wingshooting so I don't necessarily have to have a longer barrel. My ideal barrel would be 21-22 inches long, good sights and an adjustable choke that if you wanted to take a longer shot with shot, you could just twist it, and if You thought it was up close or slugs, leave it more open. Can I get a witness here!!!!! I doubt there is such a thing. Plus I don't know if them screw chokes are any good anyways. Well, am I crazy here or what??? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/13/2004 7:39:39 PM EDT
[#18]
JJ, read my answer in the other thread you started. MIKE.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/14/2004 9:30:47 AM EDT
[#19]
I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR. BUT MY IDEA FOR THE IDEAL BARREL AINT BAD IS IT???? IT SEEMS IT WOULD NEARLY BE PERFECT. AT LEAST FOR ME. THANKS FOR THE VANG COMP INFO. I MAY EXPLORE THAT AVENUE TOO!! SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD MOD.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/15/2004 7:35:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Does anyone have a suggested online retailer for the Remington 870 Express HD setup?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/15/2004 7:46:35 AM EDT
[#21]
There are three on gunsamerica.com right now. The Remington model number is 5077. The three are GA#976364584- $272.00, GA#976319041- $275.00 and GA#976482946- $300.00. You have to add shipping and FFL fee's. MIKE.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/15/2004 9:58:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Thanks Mike.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/16/2004 1:00:37 AM EDT
[#23]
I looked at vang comp and he is high on his price. When I spoke of outdoor america, And no I doent work for them, it was cause they had the cheapest price and the best anwsers around. Vang comps peeps were assholes when I called. Oa recomends a modified choke for buck as you can still fire slugs.
If you don want a choke it is almost half of the price of vang comps. They even got a write up in Guns and weapons for law enforcement. I just think it is a good deal. Personaly I am going to have the full tilt done but I am going to use a pattern master "choke". It is really no a choke at all but does remarkable things to a shotguns patterns, It's design actually slows down the wad for a micro second allowing the shot no to be disturbed by the wad or gases as much. I think with the barrel porting it will be a real winner. It is the official choke of SWAT magazine. In their adds the show a OO buck pattern at 25 yards that you can cover with the palm of your hand. As for recoil If you really want to knock it down go with the hogue compstock. I sing it's vertues loud and long. I paid $65 for mine and it was the best money I ever spent. GOing to qualify use to be a teeror. I was in a BAD car wreck in my youth and it causes neck problems which causes extreme headaches. Those 12 gauge maximum slugs we shoot for qualifying feel like skeet loads. Instead of dreading the range I am enjoying it again. A cleet target is a lil smaller than the 8 ring in a B27 if that helps. They claim it will keep all 9 pellets in at 28 yards. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/16/2004 10:18:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Oklahoma co so uses backbored shotguns> Their course of fire goes out to 185 yards. Must not hurt accurcy to bad??
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2004 5:42:09 AM EDT
[#25]
Oak Law, Who is shooting what with a shotgun at 185 yards? MIKE.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2004 6:40:22 AM EDT
[#26]
That is what OKLA county requires in one of their qualifiers. I have troble at 100 yard hitting a pepper popper. they must be better shots than I am .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2004 11:33:46 AM EDT
[#27]
I very rarely ever challange a claim of marksmanship because although I suck I know that many are very good shots BUT 185 yards is a long way with a shotgun. MIKE.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2004 1:14:11 PM EDT
[#28]
I dont know if it is an actual part of their qualifier or a skills builder. I sure coudn't do it with a shotgun. Thats why I have a ar. It is like my brothers dept. They do a pepper popper drill at 100
yards..with a handgun. Again that is why I have an ar. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2004 3:50:49 PM EDT
[#29]
How big is a pepper popper. I've heard that term a million times but I don't know how big it is. Or are there different sizes?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2004 4:00:56 PM EDT
[#30]
There are different sizes. the ones we shoot are about 2 feet high with an 8 inch circle target area. You must hit them at the top of that area or the will not fall.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/18/2004 10:22:43 AM EDT
[#31]
Mike,
thanks for your advice on the 5077. What slug or buck is a good all around home defence load? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/18/2004 10:43:35 AM EDT
[#32]
There is no one brand or load that is best in all shotguns. You have to try several brands and see what your gun likes. There is a lot of good advise given by several members, read all of the old threads. MIKE.
Edited to add: Enjoy your new gun, MIKE. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2004 11:01:15 AM EDT
[#33]
i agree with mike get the brand that best patterns in your shotgun. Usually if you stay with the tactical
series of buckshot you will be happier. It usually uses low flash powder. Is hard plated for less deformation, and thus tighter groups. It is a lil lower velocity but your shoulder will thank you for the reduced recoil. The same goes with the slug..go tactical. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
