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Posted: 8/27/2015 8:56:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2015 8:56:49 PM EDT by Spartikis]
Im finally finished building my M16 w/ MK18 upper(took 2+ years) and am looking for a new gun/project to work on over the next few years and am thinking something belt fed.

What are all of the options for a transferable Belt fed MGs that can shoot 7.62 Nato?

M60E6 looks pretty cool but a little heavy.
HK23 seems light weight and modern, im not familiar with HKs though. Also can you just buy the gun or is a HK sear with Semi-auto host the only route for this?
M1919A4 ehh, it looks cool but im not a big fan of guns that requires tripods or are crew served.
Other options?
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 10:52:32 PM EDT
HK23 is 5.56 - you want HK21.

Also MAG58/M240.

Converted MG42/MG3.

Converted PKM.

Converted 08/15.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 10:55:26 PM EDT
MAG 58/M240
MG3, but I doubt you'd be able to find one, maybe a concerted MG42 or something out there.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 11:08:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2015 11:24:31 PM EDT by Spartikis]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Circuits:
HK23 is 5.56 - you want HK21.
Whats the difference between a HK21, HK51-B and HKG3-B? All appear to be belt fed 7.62 and look very similar.

Also MAG58/M240.
Unfortunately WAY out of my price range

Converted MG42/MG3.
Could be fun

Converted PKM.
Maybe...ill be honest i dont know anything about this one, whats the price range?

Converted 08/15.
Same issue as the M1919 with being heavy and a little out dated looking.
View Quote

Link Posted: 8/27/2015 11:16:05 PM EDT
Consider the 7.62x54R round. It is still available surplus and reasonably priced.

Vickers
Maxims
RP46
Browning conversion
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 11:17:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Im finally finished building my M16 w/ MK18 upper(took 2+ years) and am looking for a new gun/project to work on over the next few years and am thinking something belt fed.

What are all of the options for a transferable Belt fed MGs that can shoot 7.62 Nato?

M60E6 looks pretty cool but a little heavy.
HK23 seems light weight and modern, im not familiar with HKs though. Also can you just buy the gun or is a HK sear with Semi-auto host the only route for this?
M1919A4 ehh, it looks cool but im not a big fan of guns that requires tripods or are crew served.
Other options?
View Quote


I own all three of those, and the M60E6 isn't heavy for the type of gun that it is, and it's the lightest out of those 3 options.  It can be comfortably shot from the shoulder.  If I could only have one, it'd be the M60E6.  Portable and comfortable to shoot. The HK21E is fun, but is heavier and the recoil is much harsher.  The 1919 is a great gun, but it is what it is.  Old, reliable, heavy, and really a tripod gun.  I love mine, but once again, if I had to sell two, the M60E6 would stay with me.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 11:19:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Circuits:
HK23 is 5.56 - you want HK21.

Also MAG58/M240.

Converted MG42/MG3.

Converted PKM.

Converted 08/15.
View Quote


The PKM isn't even an option in the transferable world, and post samples are even around ~$10k.
Link Posted: 8/27/2015 11:33:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2015 11:35:01 PM EDT by Spartikis]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By collegeboy:


I own all three of those, and the M60E6 isn't heavy for the type of gun that it is, and it's the lightest out of those 3 options.  It can be comfortably shot from the shoulder.  If I could only have one, it'd be the M60E6.  Portable and comfortable to shoot. The HK21E is fun, but is heavier and the recoil is much harsher.  The 1919 is a great gun, but it is what it is.  Old, reliable, heavy, and really a tripod gun.  I love mine, but once again, if I had to sell two, the M60E6 would stay with me.
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Originally Posted By collegeboy:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Im finally finished building my M16 w/ MK18 upper(took 2+ years) and am looking for a new gun/project to work on over the next few years and am thinking something belt fed.

What are all of the options for a transferable Belt fed MGs that can shoot 7.62 Nato?

M60E6 looks pretty cool but a little heavy.
HK23 seems light weight and modern, im not familiar with HKs though. Also can you just buy the gun or is a HK sear with Semi-auto host the only route for this?
M1919A4 ehh, it looks cool but im not a big fan of guns that requires tripods or are crew served.
Other options?


I own all three of those, and the M60E6 isn't heavy for the type of gun that it is, and it's the lightest out of those 3 options.  It can be comfortably shot from the shoulder.  If I could only have one, it'd be the M60E6.  Portable and comfortable to shoot. The HK21E is fun, but is heavier and the recoil is much harsher.  The 1919 is a great gun, but it is what it is.  Old, reliable, heavy, and really a tripod gun.  I love mine, but once again, if I had to sell two, the M60E6 would stay with me.


I was under the impression the HK21 was lighter, at least it just looks lighter, checked online and apparently they are very close in weight. Any idea why the recoil is so much harder on the HK? Also, any opinion on the other HK belt feds such as the G3-B or 51-B?

I think i would enjoy a M60E6 more than the HK21 but at the same time a HK sear is cheaper than an M60 and would open up the possibility for MP5s and other MGs down the line.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 12:16:34 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spartikis:


I was under the impression the HK21 was lighter, at least it just looks lighter, checked online and apparently they are very close in weight. Any idea why the recoil is so much harder on the HK? Also, any opinion on the other HK belt feds such as the G3-B or 51-B?

I think i would enjoy a M60E6 more than the HK21 but at the same time a HK sear is cheaper than an M60 and would open up the possibility for MP5s and other MGs down the line.
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Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Originally Posted By collegeboy:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Im finally finished building my M16 w/ MK18 upper(took 2+ years) and am looking for a new gun/project to work on over the next few years and am thinking something belt fed.

What are all of the options for a transferable Belt fed MGs that can shoot 7.62 Nato?

M60E6 looks pretty cool but a little heavy.
HK23 seems light weight and modern, im not familiar with HKs though. Also can you just buy the gun or is a HK sear with Semi-auto host the only route for this?
M1919A4 ehh, it looks cool but im not a big fan of guns that requires tripods or are crew served.
Other options?


I own all three of those, and the M60E6 isn't heavy for the type of gun that it is, and it's the lightest out of those 3 options.  It can be comfortably shot from the shoulder.  If I could only have one, it'd be the M60E6.  Portable and comfortable to shoot. The HK21E is fun, but is heavier and the recoil is much harsher.  The 1919 is a great gun, but it is what it is.  Old, reliable, heavy, and really a tripod gun.  I love mine, but once again, if I had to sell two, the M60E6 would stay with me.


I was under the impression the HK21 was lighter, at least it just looks lighter, checked online and apparently they are very close in weight. Any idea why the recoil is so much harder on the HK? Also, any opinion on the other HK belt feds such as the G3-B or 51-B?

I think i would enjoy a M60E6 more than the HK21 but at the same time a HK sear is cheaper than an M60 and would open up the possibility for MP5s and other MGs down the line.


Not only is the M60E6 lighter, but it is also a lot shorter.  This makes the difference even more.

The 51B is just an HK51 with the beltfed mechanism on it.  It's not a "real" gun.  If you're going to get one, get a real one.

You are right about the sear issue and the plus side of it with a 21E.  I promise you though, the M60E6 is WAY softer shooting.  Watch my videos on youtube of me shooting the M60E6 in one of my two vidoes of that gun, and of me then shooting the HK21E in the video about that conversion kit.  You can visually SEE the recoil into my shoulder.  I'm not a bitch or anything about recoil, but I'm just letting you know it does kick more.  Why?  No clue.  It's nothing terrible, but it is way more than the M60E6.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 1:26:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2015 1:31:44 AM EDT by Machineguntony]
The M60E6 is pretty awesome. It's more of an assault gun, meant to be shot off the shoulder. The M60E6 is a strange hybrid because when I think of 308 beltfed, I think of an emplacement gun, not a shouldered assault gun.  The original M60 was classified as a GPMG; whereas, the current licensed maker of the M60E6 classifies it as a light machine gun: http://www.usord.com/weapons/m60e6







For a 308, it is very soft shooting. I have a Maremont M60E6, and it's pretty sweet. It's also pretty light for a belt fed 308 (around 20 pounds).










The M60E6 isn't too far off, in cost, from a HK23. The HK 23 will run around $35,000-40,000 (GB prices). An M60 of nonmilitary manufacture will run around $35,000. The upgrade to E6 will run around $10,000. If you decide to go military manufacture, like a Maremont or Saco, you're talking about 5-10k on top of that.










If you buy the M60, you will need spare parts. Luckily, for M60 owners, new parts are being manufactured regularly again, due to revitalization of the M60 in certain military circles (thanks Danes).



 





However, you mentioned project gun..about three weeks ago, Doug had a project MAG58 for sale. I'm sick that I couldn't get it. I was fourth in line, and guy number 1 took it. I don't know if it was a genuine MAG58 or a DLO side plate gun. I really want/need a genuine stamped MAG58 for my collection.





 
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 4:47:03 AM EDT
Agree with above:  best answer to belt-fed 7.62 is M60, unless you want to be tied to a tripod.  

M60 is also pretty flexible.  Shoot it from the shoulder, from the bipod, tripod, or put the D conversion on it and play helicopter door gunner. I do all these things with mine.  It's my only beltfed and frankly it has made all my other machineguns seem like puny toys.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:28:48 AM EDT
I can tell you from experience that the HK21E M13 or a beast to shoot compared to the M60E6.  I have shot alot of belts through them, both factory guns, and the HK21E M13 is a beast compared to the M60E6.  I think the actual rate of fire of the HK21E M13 is higher than the listed 800rpm, the M60E6 should be 600rpm.  The M60E6 is a gas operated gun and much more compact.  I would rather shoot a M60E6 from the shoulder standing than a HK21E M13 from the bipod seated at a bench.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 2:25:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spartikis:


I was under the impression the HK21 was lighter, at least it just looks lighter, checked online and apparently they are very close in weight. Any idea why the recoil is so much harder on the HK? Also, any opinion on the other HK belt feds such as the G3-B or 51-B?

I think i would enjoy a M60E6 more than the HK21 but at the same time a HK sear is cheaper than an M60 and would open up the possibility for MP5s and other MGs down the line.
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Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Originally Posted By collegeboy:
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Im finally finished building my M16 w/ MK18 upper(took 2+ years) and am looking for a new gun/project to work on over the next few years and am thinking something belt fed.

What are all of the options for a transferable Belt fed MGs that can shoot 7.62 Nato?

M60E6 looks pretty cool but a little heavy.
HK23 seems light weight and modern, im not familiar with HKs though. Also can you just buy the gun or is a HK sear with Semi-auto host the only route for this?
M1919A4 ehh, it looks cool but im not a big fan of guns that requires tripods or are crew served.
Other options?


I own all three of those, and the M60E6 isn't heavy for the type of gun that it is, and it's the lightest out of those 3 options.  It can be comfortably shot from the shoulder.  If I could only have one, it'd be the M60E6.  Portable and comfortable to shoot. The HK21E is fun, but is heavier and the recoil is much harsher.  The 1919 is a great gun, but it is what it is.  Old, reliable, heavy, and really a tripod gun.  I love mine, but once again, if I had to sell two, the M60E6 would stay with me.


I was under the impression the HK21 was lighter, at least it just looks lighter, checked online and apparently they are very close in weight. Any idea why the recoil is so much harder on the HK? Also, any opinion on the other HK belt feds such as the G3-B or 51-B?

I think i would enjoy a M60E6 more than the HK21 but at the same time a HK sear is cheaper than an M60 and would open up the possibility for MP5s and other MGs down the line.


I had the same question you had maybe 7 or 8  years ago.   I had a couple HK sears at the time so a HK21 was the a much cheaper option.  I ended up talking to Mike at TSC machine and he told me, get the M60 if you can afford it as it is a nicer shooting gun.  This was coming from a guy who builds HK21s for a living.

The actual weight difference between the two guns (HK21 and M60E4/E6) isn't that different.  In my estimation the reason the M60 is better off the shoulder is because as others have mentioned it has a lower cyclic rate, is gas operated, and also is somewhat of a bullpup design so the weight is more balanced over the center of the pistol grip.  

On the HK21 the only weight to the rear of the pistol grip is the plastic stock and buffer (inside the stock).   The whole feed mech, trunion, bolt carrier, barrel, etc. is all out of the front on the 21.   On the 60 a decent part of the receiver is aft of the grip, the feed mech, bolt carrier, and top cover is directly over the pistol grip, and the trunion is only a couple inches forward.

I got an M60E4 (E6 didn't exist at the time) and its been great.  I have an HK23EK clone on order with Mike Otte and will get the 21 conversion kit for it.  I prefer to shoot from the shoulder (vs. bipod or tripod) so I ended up with the K variant to keep the weight more centered/balanced for off-hand shooting.  While the K only removes a pound or so, its a pound that is the farthest forward of the gun.  

Even though its not a factory gun, somewhere deep down I still want a HK51B just for fun.




Link Posted: 8/31/2015 2:59:35 PM EDT
M60E4 from shoulder

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