I am planning on building out an upper in the new year for one or the other round. I would say I am a beginner reloader, I started about a year ago loading .357 magnum and 223 and all has gone well so far. The upper will be used for mule deer and antelope hunting as well as light target duty to maybe 300 yards.

Which round is better for the average reloader? I am torn between the two as it seems the 6.8 SPC II is gaining more traction in the market but the 6.5 Grendel may be slightly better ballistics wise for my intended purpose.  Ease of loading and availibility of components will have a big impact on which round I choose to go with.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

870fan

What is the difference between the 6.8 SPC and the SPC II?

I reload for 6.5G and it's really no different than any other bottleneck cartridge so I would assume the 6.8 is the same.  Components for either should be readily available, at least online.  There is a nice variety of bullets for the 6.5 (.264) and I hear the 6.8 has some good stuff showing up as well.  I don't think either of these is going anywhere soon with more mfgs starting to make factory ammunition for both calibers.

I'm debating between the two myself. I've heard from everyone I've talked to that the 6.5 grendel is the way to go for hunting and target shooting. 6.8 spc componets are a little cheaper and easier to find but it seems to be more of a defense round and maybe a good choice for varmint up to whitetails but nothing bigger. Ballistic wise the 6.5 grendal is close to the .308 win.

The standardized SAAMI 6.8 SPC chamber has a shorter freebore than the SPC II. The SPC II chamber is lots better if you're going to handload since it allows higher velocities to be obtained without excess pressure. You'll also want a 3 or 4 groove barrel with a 1:11" or 1:12" twist––-I think the standard barrels have a 1:10" twist––-this will also allow higher velocities without excess pressure.



 

apples to apples
123gr Lapua Scenar (.547 G1)
125gr Sierra Pro Hunter (.279 G1)
Grendel, 20" barrel, 123gr Scenar, 2565fps. KE (at muzzle): 1804ft-lbs  1000yd MV: 1258fps  KE: 432.3ft-lbs
.308, 20" barrel, 125gr SP, 3000fps.        KE (at muzzle): 2517ft-lbs   1000yd MV:  892fps   KE: 221ft-lbs
Disparity in MV and KE illustrated at 1000yards. Granted the Scenar is the more aerodynamic bullet with substantially less drag than the Pro Hunter.

bigger apples to bigger apples
129gr Hornady SST (.485 G1)
178gr Hornady A-Max (.495 G1)
Grendel, 24" barrel, 129gr SST, 2391fps. KE (at muzzle): 1645ft-lbs 1000yd MV: 1090fps KE: 366ft-lbs
.308, 24" barrel, 178gr A-Max, 2661fps. KE (at muzzle): 2811ft-lbs  1000yd MV: 1219fps  KE: 587ft-lbs
Disparity in MV and KE illustrated at muzzle and at 1000yards.

At the muzzle the .308 has on average about a thousand foot pounds more kinetic energy than the best load in 6.5 Grendel. The .308 also runs about 500fps faster for equivalent weight bullets. At a thousand yards, the .308 when loaded with bullets of equal BC still retains more energy and velocity at that range. The .308 can be loaded with bullets ranging from ~110gr-200gr. The 6.5 Grendel can be loaded with bullets ranging from ~85-140gr.


Ballistically, it may be "closer" than the 6.8 but the .308 still leaves them both in the dust.

Well, the 6.8 uses a relatively forgotten brass. The 6.5 can use resized 7.62x39mm brass.

Thats all I got.

6.5 Grendel does give you more sources for brass, as you can fireform from resized 7.63x39. You won't be reloading any steel cases, but the brass stuff is good to go.

Short answer is.......if you like short guns like SBR's or even 16" rifles, you will be better off with the 6.8 SPC II.
This is because the 6.8 really shines in short barrels and gets to full velocity very quickly.  If you like 20"-24" rifles,
you will be better served by the 6.5 Grendel.  The Grendel has huge potential and performs great, but it needs a
long barrel to stretch its legs.  

For me......SBR's all the way baby.

Actually, the Grendel does well out of SBR's.  Bill Alexander has said himself that the 18" barrel is likely the best length for the cartridge for typical use.  So many guys like the longer (up to 24" barrel) for shooting long range but the majority of Grendels are likely 16-20" with 10.5" models available from AA and others.

SSA sells it new all day every day for $42 a 100 pieces(SSA everyday price and the best brass made, I have some going on 15-20 reloads) AAA 6.5G brass is $86 per 100

Hornady makes great 6.8 brass which is about $34 per 50 which isn't bad for quality Hornady brass, 6.5G is 35 per 50 (Midway price)

not to mention Rem sells 6.8 brass which is good for your avg shooter and hunter that doesn't need as many reloads, may loose some, and doesnt need as much velocity as the Small primer brass.$46.50 per 100, $210 per 500, & $389. per 1,000 cases(Midway price, can be found cheaper)

Lapua 6.5G brass is $105 per 100 cases



If your not going to be hunting past 350+ yards the 6.8 will take anything you want, deer, elk, hogs, varmints,& I've evne seen several bear, so unless your hunting further than that the 6.5 is not needed plus the 6.8 will do it from a 16" barrel instead of a 20"+ barrel.

A 110gr Accubond at 2800 FPS isn't a slouch from a 16" 6.8 spec-II and the new Barnes 95gr TTSX at 2850-2900 FPS will drop anything you want to hunt within reason and the 85gr TSX at over 3K FPS is tough to beat on tough animals like hogs.

Plus Hornady is releasing a 120gr SST for the 6.8 this month and a 100 or 105gr GMX load after the first of the year, I don't see companies rushing out new ammo or bullets for the 6.5G although it already has plenty of good bullets no one is loading and selling them.

To me the 6.8 is a hunting rifle(isn't that what a CQB battle rifle is used for to hunt at med distance, just not game) and the 6.5 is more of a target/sniper rifle with not near as much proven hunting performance as the 6.8.

So for me I hunt with a 6.8 and may would use a 6.5G or better for a long range 600-1K yard  target rifle.

My point is if you already have an AK or an SKS or something else is 7.62x39mm the Grendel, to me, becomes a very attractive choice because of a common component between the two.

Likewise if I had a 270 bolt gun in the closest a 6.8 becomes a very attractive choice due to bullets. I would love to have a DPMS 260 rifle. I have neither a 270 or a 260 and I havent shot my 7.62x39 guns in half a lifetime. So looking down the road the Grendel is a better choice for me due to my desire to add a 260 to the lineup.

For hunting the 6.5 is the clear winner.  Better bullet selection, better ballistics, better penetration.  For antelope the 120 grain Nostler BT would be ideal, for mulies I'd want something a bit heavier in construction.

Balisticly it is very similar to the 6.5x55 Sweed which is a top notch target and hunting cartridge.

I'm not sure thats being entirely honest to the 6.8....

In a shorter barrel the 6.8 blows the 6.5 away. The 6.5 needs a longer barrel to really shine. Knowing you can run a SBR rifle for hunting would be a pretty compelling reason to go down the 6.8 road. The ballistics are similar enough within hunting ranges to not be a large issue. Yes, we can argue 1 or 4 inches here and there but really both cartridges suffer the same underlying problem which is being limited to the powder capacity of a case designed to fit in the AR15 platform. Any way you cut it your running an intermediate cartridge which really isnt meant to be pushed past 3-400 yards in a hunting environment.

Which ties in to the comparison to the 6.5 Swede. While its similar ballistically the fact is the 6.5 Swede has a hell of a lot more oomph behind it allowing it to perform better once it hits hide. You can send more lead faster with the 6.5 Swede as compared to the Grendel.

This is not true at all.  Both the 6.8 and the 6.5 lose velocity as the barrel gets shortened.  6.8ers dont really seem to realize that.  It is true that the grendel loses slightly more muzzle velocity than the 6.8 as the barrel shortens but the grendel relies upon heavier high BC bullets to make up for that.  The 6.8 shoots light bullets really fast but when you start cutting the barrel down and slow down an already low BC bullet, you are going to get considerably less and less performance.  The grendel will lose a little, but it will take much longer to slow that bullet down.  Basically, when you shorten the barrel of either you get about the same trade off.  



You should really stop repeating stuff you hear on the internet until you know for yourself.  These two statements are false and really show how inexperienced you are.

I own a 6.8 and a 6.5 grendel and reload for both.

The 6.8 really is better for short range combat.  It does have a faster muzzle velocity that is good for fighting inside a building. (though depending on what you compare it to, the grendel can usually catch up within 100 yards)   Also, those light fat bullets that 6.8 shoots won't be pushed around much by the wind inside a building so a good light barrel is perfect for a 6.8 because accuracy won't matter much within those ranges.  Also, you need to realize that the velocities that you read for the spcII are not easily reached.  Usually you are putting a lot of strain on your rifle and brass just to get near those velocities.  Most everyone that shoots one thinks that when they pull the trigger they have a super high velocity load flying through the air until they compare their real world results on a chronograph to what the internet says.  I am not saying it is impossible, just very difficult and not usual.  


The Grendel is a reloader's dream.  I have found that the grendel load data is pretty close to the truth and in some cases I have been able to get almost 100 fps faster than some.  I really dont like it when people try to compare the 6.8 to the 6.5 as even close to reloading equals.  The .270 bullets that exist in weights for the 6.8 are not near the quality of the 6.5 grendel bullets.  The grendel can shoot any bullets from the 6.5 range of bullets (though some are not optimal).  The 6.8 is limited to the lighter of the light  (though occasionaly you will find someone trying in vain to make a 130 grain bullet work.  The 6.5 bullets will kill as well as the 6.8's and they will also fly straighter and farther.  The 6.5 is a great bench gun and hunting gun.  If you want a lighter gun then the grendel can be found in lighter barrels, but if you want something for hunting and target work I would suggest a little heavier barrel.

First you state its not true at all (in blue) and then you state the 6.5 loses more velocity than the 6.8 (in red).

So, whats your position exactly because I'm confused here. Fact is hunting bullets need to run at X velocity to work. I'll take a lighter bullet traveling at the correct velocity rather than some bandaid bullet trying to play paper games by having a high BC. Note, I am not saying thats what the Grendel is doing but none the less for hunting it doesnt matter if its a 50 grain bullet or a 500 grain bullet theres certain minimum requirements which must be met for the bullet to properly function as something more than an ice pick.




Wait.....Now I'm really confused because again you've stated the 6.8 is a better shorter range cartridge, which was my position the whole time. Which you disagreed with.....Until you agreed with it......And told me to not repeat what I read on the internet.....

My point, as I clearly stated earlier, is that there isnt a cut and dried winner here. The cartridges inside hunting distances are close enough that only a passionate fool would truly attempt to argue one over the other. I havent and I wont. My position is that the true determining factor for hunting roles shouldnt be which one performs better but rather how the cartridge chosen fits into the shooters existing range of weapons and the availability and cost of the chosen cartridge.

Fact is both perform admirably well as an all around cartridge with an edge to the 6.8 for shorter barrel closer in applications and an edge to the Grendel for longer range target applications. From 0-300 for hunting roles either one is gonna make it DRT if you use good bullets and the goober on the trigger does his part. Personally, I dont like getting drug down into the minute details of 30 FPS more here and .1 grams more bullet weight there.

Now if you really want to get drug into the little minute points I'd be happy to go round up a few of the Texas hog hunters who swear by the 6.8, I'm sure they would enjoy a spirited debate between the 6.5/6.8 far more than I would. I know that hi-tech-rancher has done some cutting edge load development on the 6.8 both in wringing out every last bit of combat distance performance to keeping in touch with upcoming bullets which really help to overcome the 6.8's short legs as compared to the Grendels.

But lets talk about the "quality" of bullet. I think you meant tot ype "quantity"? You can get excellent bullets from well known manufacturers in both calibers.

Right, but if you have an SKS that you shoot every weekend and you reload then to me it makes sense to lean towards a Grendel since you can use the 7.62 brass......

I actually think that both cartridges are somewhat limited in that they really do not have the case length/neck length to accommodate the heavier bullets in each of the calibers.  For a general purpose hunting round I prefer heavier bullets with higher sectional densities for deep penetration.  In this realm I think the 6.8 is more limited than the 6.5, as the bullets that are generally suitable for the cartridge have quite a bit lower SD than the equivalent 6.5 bullets.

In how many states is it legal to hunt big game with an SBR?  

If that's the best reason to go with a 6.8 (even assuming it really does outperform the Grendel out of a short barrel, which may or may not be the case), then I guess the 6.5 wins this one......not that the OP mentioned anything about SBRs anyway....

Let me reiterate.  I own both the 6.8 and 6.5 grendel.  I reload for both.  My experience has been that the quantity and quality of bullets made that work well in those cartridges is much higher for the 6.5.  Sure the 6.8 has a few very good bullets like the new 95 ttsx.  That bullet may very well be the best thing that the 6.8 has going for it right now.  I sure don't think I will be shooting anything else anymore.  One thing that is often overlooked by the big 6.8 crowd is that they really do need the higher initial velocity so that the bullets can perform well within 200 yards because it slows down so fast. The point I was trying to make was that the 6.5 and the 6.8 both do well from shorter barrels.  Because the 6.8 loses a lot of velocity once it leaves the muzzle, cutting the barrel down only frustrates the problem even more.  So, even though it only loses 20 fps per inch cut off compared to the grendel losing 25-30 fps per inch of barrel, it really doesn't make it that much better than the grendel in shorter barrels.  Remember, I own both and I reload for both.  I just want to reiterate that the Grendel does not need a long barrel to get wonderful results.  And the 6.8 really really becomes limited to close range combat when you start cutting the barrel down.  Whereas you still have long range capabities with the Grendel even with a shorter barrel.  

I am just stating my experience with the two calibers.  I own both and I know what they can do.  I personally feel that the 6.5 has more potential than the 6.8 as a reloader's hunting/target round.  If you want to kill people in Iraq then get a lightweight 6.8.  

That said, a 6.8 will do for hunting.  I just enjoy my 6.5 more for that purpose especially when reloading is a factor.    

It's legal here.  No suppressors or full auto, but SBR and SBS are legal for taking game.

Not here - for deer anyway, but as far as I can tell, suppressors are OK - at least I can't find any mention saying otherwise....kinda sucks cause an SBR'd and suppressed 300BLK would be el gato's bung...........never mind, WAY off topic