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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:20:08 AM EDT
[#1]
What's more important than what I like is what your USP likes. Buy a hundred rounds of each of your .45 ball rounds and run it though your pistol checking for function, velocity, and accuracy. Let your pistol tell you what's best rather than some stranger.
My Springfield 1911A1 likes Winchester but I've tweaked out the springs so it's not exactly stock any more. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:22:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Personally, I buy Wolf. I would recommend you try it first though. Some people have problems with it, but I never have. Just clean it every couple trips to the range.
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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:31:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Yes Folks step right up, step right up... Every step right up and take the wolf challange. Folks here are the rules... 1. Buy a Top Quality HK USP. 2. buy the cheapest ammo you can find, wolf is recommended for this. 3. See how many rounds of Wolf .45 you can successfully shoot through your USP before it jams, so far the record is 3. If you can beat this record, you will be rewarded the dirtest looking USP, even after 3 rounds.... Please do not shoot wolf through your HK, its been talked about so many times, I think Jboze is Trolling. I recommend Fiochhi for general plinking. Federal Hydroshock and Remmington Golden sabar are the best self-defense loads. But please, don't buy wolf. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:32:37 AM EDT
[#4]
For factory rounds, I prefer PMC. Shoot well, and the cases are excellent for reloading. Winchesters work fine, but seem to be a bit dirty. I haven't shot UMC in quite a while. M@ |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:33:03 AM EDT
[#5]
I have been using WinClean myself, and might I say.....CHRIST!!!!! Looked like I have hair growing in my barrel when I get done, but it seems to shoot pretty good, need to try some others.
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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:35:56 AM EDT
[#6]
My Para Ordnance P14.45 Limited likes to eat Winchester Q4170 230 grain FMJ rounds. I'm biased towards Winchester USA products in general, since I only shoot Q3131A out of my Bushmaster. It's clean and cheap. I live around St. Louis, and for whatever reason, American Eagle and UMC ammo is always $2-5 more per box of 50 than the Winchester. It may have something to do with Olin being based in Alton, IL.
themao 
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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:36:04 AM EDT
[#7]
I used to shoot nothing but PMC until I realized that PMC shoots very dirty! I switched to Fiocchi and my cleaning time was cut in half. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:38:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Federal .45 ball seems to shoot a little hotter (higher velocity) than the Remington and Winchester offerings.
Just FYI. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:51:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Ammoman has pretty reasonable rates on Fiocchi. I have used it in my Glock 21 and it seems like a clean round.
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Posted: 5/2/2002 11:55:47 AM EDT
[#10]
There is nothing wrong with Wolf ammo!! I shoot the shit out of it with NO problems. I know many other people who use it as well. Most of the Wolf rumors are just that....RUMORS! If your overpriced HK won't shoot it, then I suggest you find another weapon. I'd hate to need some ammo in a combat situation and find out the dead body I'm taking ammo from is only carrying Wolf! I hope you can fight your way out of it, with only 3 shots! I think the real question is: Do you avoid Wolf because it doesn't work, or do you avoid it cause it might get your pretty USP a little dirty? [>(] Like I said previously...Try it, before you buy it! You might just be suprised! |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 12:00:27 PM EDT
[#11]
Any of the above brands work pretty decently. Believe it or not, Wolf was the most accurate and decently clean, in my CMP match service pistol. At ten yards, they go into durn near the same hole. At twenty five yards, I can consistantly score 95 or better in timed or rapid fire. Well, in practice anyway, matches are another story. At fifty yards, it's about like the rest, I have to go to Federal Match stuff to get into the nineties at that distance.
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Posted: 5/2/2002 12:02:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Never tried wolf other than in my AK's, probably never will. PMC is the only ammo that has give me problems. Only shot it once and it jammed every ten rounds or so. I'm kind of biased towards Winchester products because they seem to work great in all my guns though federal works well too in everything but my buckmark. Heck most everything works great in my USP:-)
I definitely agree about the golden sabres being fine rounds. I like that they have roughly the same kick and muzzle flash as ball ammo. I don't like more powerful loads for defense; you are better of being able to deliver your rounds swiftly and accurately. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 12:06:19 PM EDT
[#13]
If anyone is dissatisfied with their Wolf .223, 7.62x39, or .45, please contact me for free disposal. I'll pay shipping. Thank you.
What's the point of buying expensive, torture-tested, high and mighty military-style firearms if you're only gonna use ammo that's been spit polished with a chamois rubbed on a baby's ass?... Wolf isn't any dirtier than other stuff. If you don't like cleaning your weapons, maybe shooting is not for you...lol. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 12:10:54 PM EDT
[#14]
I'd go with the Winchester USA 230gr FMJ. I keep a healthy stockpile in storage. I've had some god-awful experiences with UMC products, particularly 9mm with out of spec cases. Nothing but good shoots with the Winchester USA stuff in my SA 1911a1.
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Posted: 5/2/2002 12:11:52 PM EDT
[#15]
I would not lower myself to getting in a gun fight with someone who used Wolf ammo.  My concerns with Wolf are- 1. Steel cases-I fear that the steel cases are not good for the gun, most guns were designed for brass cases which are softer than the steel chamber-I sure wouldn't shoot Wolf in my HK 91 as it would ruin the gun pretty quickly-altho my glock does not have the same kind of chamber. Also I SUSPECT, and have no proof whatsoever, that the steel cases wear on the extractors. I could very well be wrong I'll spend an extra $ 20 per 500 rounds and get brass cased rounds for a gun I carry for self defense. 2. Quality control-who the frick knows what this russian factory is like, they may be as good or even better than european or US ammo manufacturers but S&B has sure blown up a few guns here and there. 3. Dirty ammo sucks-I spent hours cleaning a mini 30 once when I ran some russian rounds through it (not wolf-I THINK it was from the same factory that sells the "Silver Bear" ammo that was like cleaning out a chimney), however I have fired S & B through it also and that stuff seemed fine. Of course that dirty cheap russian did shoot very accurately so I wouldn't rule out using it again. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 12:12:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Hey Pricknose... I'm going off what I ran into, on 3 different USP's. The reason for the jamming is ( Lord knows I've said this so many times) 1. Wolf adds a coating around there steel casing, this adds the the overall width of case. 2. Wolf shoots very dirty, thus adding even more to overall width of case and making chamber area slightly smaller. (even after one round might I add) 3. Wolf steel casings flex like a Mofo, so after its shot, adds even more to width of case. 4. USP barrals have VERY tight tolerances then most handguns. All this equals up to a handgun that cannot extract rounds even after 2 or 3 shots. The case gets stuck every time. So as you can see this isn't a rumor, this is actual testing, I've done it with 2 friends USP's to the same effect. Wolf ammo is so dirty, both indoor handgun ranges I attend, banned the use of wolf due to air quality issue's. Plus if you want to save money so bad, buy good ammo in bulk, it ends up being to same. (unless you buy shitty ammo in bulk) So Piss the hell off! 
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Posted: 5/2/2002 12:18:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Hmm...Storm clouds a brewin'...
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Posted: 5/2/2002 12:21:59 PM EDT
[#18]
I have always had good results with UMC in the straw colored box.
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Posted: 5/2/2002 3:20:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Personally, I'd use the Win USA white box. All my different USPs like it when I have used it. Of course I always try and shoot practice with either HydraShok carry ammo or personal reloads. It's good to practice with your carry ammo. It gives you confidence and may shoot a little different than training ammo. Price is a concern, but I still would buy the Win USA brand over a steel cased ammo like the Wolf brand. When you spend 600+ on the gun I don't recommend skimping on accessories like holsters or ammo. It's life support equipment, not rollerblades. Find a quality ammo that works well and practice, practice, practice.
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Posted: 5/2/2002 3:37:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Bullshit. Wolf ammo, in anything other than a AK, IME, is absolute crap. And yes, I have experience with it in .45, .223, and 5.45. The .45 is thru my USP, which has been absolutely flawless with every other brand of ammo. I have not had a single malfuntion with anything other than Wolf in over 2500 rounds. The Wolf shit, OTOH, glues the chamber shut. In my Colt, which has also been flawless, the .223 Wolf is the ONLY ammo that has ever caused a problem. My only gun that can shoot this shit is my SAR-2. Just because you haven't had any problems doesn't mean plenty of others have. Was my HK overpriced? Not when you consider how perfectly it shoots. Are you jealous at those who can afford HKs? Most likely. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 3:49:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Finally, some backup!
I just can't believe this topic is brought up so much. I don't know how many times I've explained that Wolf ammo will not work in weapons with close tolerances. And please people, quit telling me to sell my HK can't it can't shoot Steel cased, lacuar coated, commie ammo. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 5:30:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Feeding your rifle Wolf ammo is like feeding your child Twinkies. Don't ask why your child is a fat-ass in 20 years.
If you want to mistreat your guns, do them a favor and give them to a good home. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 7:00:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Funny as hell, but well said....As with the group, I ONLY use Wolf in my AK's....Their loose tolerances and inferior craftsmanship make them IDEAL for ammo that leaves more than powder residue.  Wolf in my Glock? My AR? My FAL? Are you serious or smokin crack?????  |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 7:14:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Not to throw any more fuel on this fire but I have shot some wolf .45 through my Kimber with no ill effects. I only shot two boxes and it got cleaned in between sessions so who knows, it might have gunked up the gun if I had shot more. It was dirty, but it was also quite accurate. Given the choice I do use much better ammo, Winchester "white box" has always been good to me in both .45 and 9mm.
I have had two AKs and I fired literally thousands of rounds of Wolf without any problems. AK's must be so stupid that they don't realize that they are supposed to gunk up and quit working when you give them the wolf! |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 7:22:57 PM EDT
[#25]
I still find it interesting that as high a quality a weapon as a H&K USP has a problem with ammunition that 50+ year old 1911A1's, and Thompsons eat like candy..
They may be more accurate, and you may be a better shot with your USP than I am with my old Colt. I still like the knowledge that it will function with steel cases, reloaded primers (Yes It can be done) charged with black powder and firing cast lead if I desire it. Knock it if you wish. I'll keep shooting Wolf, or other Russian steel cased ammo.It works in my firearms.. Meplat- |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 7:43:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Whatever floats your boat!
I guess I'm one of those that had issue's with Wolf ammo. My AR ate it up no problem and I have no problem saying that, but after buying South African battle packs, why would I shoot Wolf. If I need to explain why I shoot SA instead of Wolf, then someone hasn't been paying attention. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 7:49:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Man people are you hard of hearing?  So buy a hundred rounds of Wolf and try it out too. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 8:06:25 PM EDT
[#28]
For plinking, I use Speer Lawman 230 gr. No problems with it. The best part is when it's in stock, it costs me $7 per box.
When that's not available, I usually pick up Armscorp 230 gr. It functions fine, but is not as accurate as Speer, Win, PMC, etc. edited to add that I shoot this stuff through an older Springfield Champion. |
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Posted: 5/2/2002 9:03:52 PM EDT
[#29]
im using pretty much cci blazer and the 1980's mil surplus i inherated man that stuff is nice to bad i bet its a pain in the ass to find thu.
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Posted: 5/2/2002 10:06:57 PM EDT
[#30]
I've shot damn near every chaep 45acp ammo made: USA, UMC, Wolf, Eagle, S&B, etc. etc. The brand that I've found ot be more accurate over all of the others is PMC. All brands are the same, virtually, on dependability & quality except Wolfe. But PMC gets wonderful accuracy, sometimes outshooting commercial match ammo.
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Posted: 5/2/2002 10:18:01 PM EDT
[#31]
... one word
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Posted: 5/3/2002 12:25:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Whatever you like.
I kinda like Lawman, Fiocchi, and Federal XM1911 for ball. Gold Dot and Hydrashok for SHTF. |
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Posted: 5/3/2002 2:39:01 AM EDT
[#33]
The reason that wolf doesn't work in the HK is that the QC on the case length is not up to snuff. Every one I have had lock up the slide on my USP was several MM too long on OAL, the case hits the forcing cone prior to the weapon going into battery and stops the action.
The other wolf ammo problems I have had is their 40 cal ammo in a SIG 2340, they give failures to eject about 30 percent of the time, I haven't been able to isolate the exact problem, but the same pistol shoots all other brands of 40 cal without a problem. Occasionally, I have had their 9mm have problems in a Glock 19, when I used the after market barrel, but that was solved by a shove on the back of the slide to seat the round. |
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Posted: 5/3/2002 11:56:19 AM EDT
[#34]
According to some people on this board, since your Sig couldn't "handle" wolf, it's time to sell that bitch. |
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Posted: 5/3/2002 1:22:41 PM EDT
[#35]
You know, I find a certain problem in your logic here Murder... You see, a handgun is a survival weapon. It is very bad if the only ammo you are able to scrounge for your survival weapon is one that your precision manufactured barrel won't tolerate... The AR's sometimes finiky nature in regards to ammo can actually be better excused than the apperance of such finiky behavior in a handgun. Its a government issue military rifle, designed with idea that millions of rounds of properly speced ammo are going to be purchased along with it. It was designed with the expectation that the operator was going to be properly supplied and never have to scrounge for ammo. It seems unwise to force this same expectation onto handguns. Yet in pursuing law enforcement sales that is just what people like HK and SIG are doing. Their big customers-the ones who actually keep them in business-are government law enforcement agencies. And they, for liability reasons, are only going to purchase top quality expensive precision made factory ammo and are also not going to allow their operators to use anything OTHER than the ammo they are issued with. If a particular brand is found not to work, rather than fixing the gun the gunmakers now just print a warning to not use that kind of ammo and the government organizations that purchase these weapons simply follow the recomendations. Now can a civilian, lacking a massive supply network to back him up, afford to be that choosy with a weapon that he/she depends on for their life? What happens if your access to precision made high quality ammo your gun likes is cut off? What are you going to do if you have to depend on your neighbors lead bullet handloads or smuggled Russian and Chinese ammo from the black market to protect your life? Its one thing if you are just a collector in peace time, then its just a nusence, in times of trouble a finiky handgun could get you in serious trouble... |
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Posted: 5/3/2002 7:09:52 PM EDT
[#36]
FWIW Wolf ammo blew up my Broomhandle Mauser. It is a well known fact that steel cases are hell on extractors & that's what Wolf uses. Using Wolf ammo is like using Cost Cutter .49cent oil in a Porche. It isn't worth it. |
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Posted: 5/3/2002 7:41:31 PM EDT
[#37]
never had problems with these brands in my Glock 30
PMC 230 grain FML Fiochi 230 grain FML CCI Blazer 230 grain FML Federal Hydrashock Winchester Silvertip not sure of the weights of the hollowpoints maybe a few others I'm forgetting |
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Posted: 5/3/2002 9:10:47 PM EDT
[#38]
I've put basically ever other type of ammo through my HK without any other problems. Wolf is the only steel cased ammo that I've shoot out of my HK, and I had issue's. If I don't have problems with over 15 types of ammo, and I have problems with one, which happends to be the cheapests on the market, doesn't that say something about the ammo? I hardly see how I can blame my HK. I see your point, but the one I made is stronger in IMO. |
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Posted: 5/3/2002 10:16:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Another reccomendation for Fiocchi. Stuff has been stone reliable and reasonably accurate. I can usually get a thousand rounds of FMJ for about $180. I picked up a case of HP for $220 as well. Good stuff.
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Posted: 5/4/2002 5:19:57 AM EDT
[#40]
This topic seems to come up from time to time, I used Wolf in a NEW CZ-85 combat, pistol had up to that point,150 rnds ran through it, tryed 2 boxes of wolf 9mm worked ok, I thought I'd try'em again, bought two more boxes... on the 12th round gun KB'ed, blew saftey levers off, blew bottom of mag out partly blew the grips off, blew the extractor into the slide, seems the round wasn't compleatly in battery (laquer build up??) contacted wolf's U.S. distributor, to their credit, I sent them my KB'ed pistol they promply paid for a new pistol,(never heard another thing about it, they promised to to send me a letter detailing their findings of why my pistol KB'ed, Hmmmmm, wonder why???) I wasn't hurt, (thanks to a well designed pistol) But, I'll never use wolf in anything except russian designed firearms in russian designed calibers!! It's junk!! You get what you pay for... Garbage in.. Garbage out... If you've got the money to buy a high dollar pistol, then buy some decent ammo for it!!!
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Posted: 5/4/2002 8:07:27 AM EDT
[#41]
The problems I've had with Wolf have been due to that crap they cover their cases with and dirty powder that makes CCI Blazers look like they're loaded with Vihtavuori.
In fact, back to my Twinkie reference, you're almost better off shoving a Twinkie into the action and sucking the white cellophane goo through the muzzle. Sure, you're screwed up your gun, but at least you got a sugar rush, which is more joy than the Wolf will provide. |
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Posted: 5/6/2002 1:35:27 PM EDT
[#42]
In the containing saga of problems with Wolf ammo. I tried the 40 cal ammo in my Glock 23, and tried both the OEM barrel and a Bar-Sto barrel. The OEM barrel was 100 percent reliable, the Bar-Sto gave about a 20 percent failure to extract rate.
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Posted: 5/6/2002 3:07:17 PM EDT
[#43]
I either use handloads or CCI Blazer 230 grain ball.
The CCI while filthy, seems darned close to military ball in accuracy and energy. It's dead reliable in my SIG Sauer P220 and it's reasonably cheap. I am thoroughly unconcerned about ammo reloadability in a SHTF scenario, at least for actual combat ammo since I'm not going to be sticking around to police my brass. So I don't give a crap. As for Wolf ammo, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It may work for you, but I'm not spending good money on a good firearm just to feed it crap ammo. As far as the scenario of only being able to find Wolf ammo in a survival situation...if it gets that bad, we are all well and truly f*cked. And as I've explained before, in any sort of SHTF scenario I can imagine, I'll be forted up with neighbors and people from my community trying to rebuild that community and re-establish order, not trying to survive like a Mad Max or Jeremiah Johnson on my lonesome. Between the pooled resources of a ruralish community and the defensive mass provided by such a group, your need for lots of ammo is going to be more limited. Also, as government is re-established, supplies will become more available as trade and support are established. I have NO illusions about the prospects should I be forced to survive for the extended future on my own with my family. One of the things that enabled humans to survive and evolve over the past 40 thousand years or so is the ability to cooperate with one another, pool resources and leverage communal talents. We succeed through teamwork more often than through lone action. |
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Posted: 5/22/2002 4:55:35 PM EDT
[#44]
If you can afford and HK then don't buy the cheapest ammo you can buy-----and if HK's can't handle all types of ammo why would you want one? Do you want a weopon that won't accept different ammo in a combat situation? I know that we are all not weekend warriors(i know im not) but come on. I have a Beretta 96 it isn't exactly the cheapest sidearm you can buy--but it eats .40 wolf no problem....Don't get me wrong i like HK--"in a world of comprimise some don't" Just remember that Beretta is since 1526. Sometimes you don't learn a lot in only 50 years.
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Posted: 5/22/2002 6:11:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Yeah I refuse to buy a BMW because they need premium gas. So what if they offer great hp per liter, outstanding quality, and maintian their value. Why would you want to shoot Wolf ammo? All you guys get on your soapbox and say "buy American". I see that post every couple of days. But all of a sudden you want to save 5% on ammo. Well aren't we just the little thrifty shoppers. Here's another little thought Wolf is FMJ ammo? What good is that?? Except for plinking and target. If you are talking self defense ammo, you want hollow-points. |
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Posted: 5/22/2002 8:24:12 PM EDT
[#46]
I have to go with Paul. Run a couple hundred rounds through your firearm and see what it eats. My USP .45 Compact eats anything -- and I've run everything I can through it...Wolf included. My belief is that if your personal firearms can't be flexible and reliable -- get rid of it. What are you paying for 50 rounds? I'm interested in getting price averages around the country and knowing where you purchase your ammo. Thanks, Jeff |
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Posted: 5/22/2002 8:35:52 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm sure a lot of you are expecting a tirade on how I've had no problem with Wolf .45 ACP in the .45's I own.. Sorry to disappoint..
Presently I am shooting some Russian imported .45 ACP, but strangely it bears the headstamp of "FA 41" (Among others).. Shoots well for 50+year old ammo..So is this "Buying American"? Meplat- |
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Posted: 5/22/2002 9:07:52 PM EDT
[#48]
I haven't shot Wolf .45, but have shot the .223 with no problems...yeah some say it's BAAAAAAAAD to shoot cheap ammo in a nice gun, I say if it doesn't hurt YOUR gun, cheap ammo allows more nice guns in the safe. Anyhoo..about .45 ammo, I've never had any problems with anything BUT winchester winclean 230 trunc.cone bullets. I have one Springfield that doesn't like these, but I've shot UMC, Winchester White box, and American Eagle with no problem. The PMC is loaded a little hotter it seems like, but I shoot it most of the time, it's the cheapest at my shop and I've had no problems with it.
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Posted: 5/22/2002 9:53:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Why would you have to scrounge pistol ammo? Is the pistol your primary weapon? How many rounds did you envision expending in a day?
I didn't think HK's are designed to eat whatever you may scrounge up. A high performance implement usually requires high quality 'fuel'-be it a pistol or a car. Why buy a precision pistol and try to run it on the cheapest ammo possible? For ball for plinking, I like the CCI Blazer. It was the cheapest locally available stuff barring fun shows. Ammoman may have a better deal. Federal Hydrashok 230's for serious social work. |
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