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Posted: 3/9/2015 11:06:22 PM EDT
Any new timetable for when it will be implemented?
Link Posted: 3/9/2015 11:49:27 PM EDT
Still looking at May this year. If it gets pushed back we won't hear about it for another month I bet.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 6:15:48 AM EDT
Anyone else doing lots of praying for a push back?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 12:51:44 PM EDT
I am. I'm working on designing a form 1 suppressor still. If it comes close I may end up just buying one instead.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 2:44:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2015 2:45:20 PM EDT by jekbrown]
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Originally Posted By BlackOpScottie:
Anyone else doing lots of praying for a push back?
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I have a Octane 9 in jail right now....so yes. IMO 41P being approved, either entirely or almost-entirely is a near certainty. At this point all we can hope for is that it's delayed as long as possible...
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 4:51:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BlackOpScottie:
Anyone else doing lots of praying for a push back?
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No, I am actually hoping for a sensible outcome. A form to submit with trust & corporation applications listing authorized persons. No CLEO sign off or fingerprints, just background check at ATF and form is returned approved. No need to carry trust documents with form 4, just the form listing authorized persons and form 4 (or form 1).

I don't really think this will happen but I am hoping.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 5:01:31 PM EDT
Hopefully 41P will fade into nothing and will be forgotten by the ATF and gun owners alike.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 5:31:32 PM EDT
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 8:57:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.
View Quote


People seem pretty pessimistic about 41p (myself included). I don't get the feeling from anyone that it won't go through. A few of my friends pretty well connected in the nfa community think it is a done deal.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 9:08:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By m1garand30064:


People seem pretty pessimistic about 41p (myself included). I don't get the feeling from anyone that it won't go through. A few of my friends pretty well connected in the nfa community think it is a done deal.
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Originally Posted By m1garand30064:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.


People seem pretty pessimistic about 41p (myself included). I don't get the feeling from anyone that it won't go through. A few of my friends pretty well connected in the nfa community think it is a done deal.


It is a done deal.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 9:19:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


It is a done deal.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By m1garand30064:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.


People seem pretty pessimistic about 41p (myself included). I don't get the feeling from anyone that it won't go through. A few of my friends pretty well connected in the nfa community think it is a done deal.


It is a done deal.


Sounds like you know something that NO ONE else knows about?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 9:39:14 PM EDT
Guess I will be dropping a few form 1's soon
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 9:40:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jekbrown:


I have a Octane 9 in jail right now....so yes. IMO 41P being approved, either entirely or almost-entirely is a near certainty. At this point all we can hope for is that it's delayed as long as possible...
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Originally Posted By jekbrown:
Originally Posted By BlackOpScottie:
Anyone else doing lots of praying for a push back?


I have a Octane 9 in jail right now....so yes. IMO 41P being approved, either entirely or almost-entirely is a near certainty. At this point all we can hope for is that it's delayed as long as possible...


Don't think it would affect you as your f4 is already in process
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 9:41:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By doubleshot00:


Sounds like you know something that NO ONE else knows about?
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Originally Posted By doubleshot00:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By m1garand30064:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.


People seem pretty pessimistic about 41p (myself included). I don't get the feeling from anyone that it won't go through. A few of my friends pretty well connected in the nfa community think it is a done deal.


It is a done deal.


Sounds like you know something that NO ONE else knows about?


Other than Director of ATF telling me it is a done deal, and knowing when a Federal Agency posts a RFC in the Federal Register, it gets enacted 99.99% of time, no.
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 10:05:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


Other than Director of ATF telling me it is a done deal, and knowing when a Federal Agency posts a RFC in the Federal Register, it gets enacted 99.99% of time, no.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By doubleshot00:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By m1garand30064:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.


People seem pretty pessimistic about 41p (myself included). I don't get the feeling from anyone that it won't go through. A few of my friends pretty well connected in the nfa community think it is a done deal.


It is a done deal.


Sounds like you know something that NO ONE else knows about?


Other than Director of ATF telling me it is a done deal, and knowing when a Federal Agency posts a RFC in the Federal Register, it gets enacted 99.99% of time, no.


End of the summer? Forms already in process?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 10:25:14 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


Other than Director of ATF telling me it is a done deal, and knowing when a Federal Agency posts a RFC in the Federal Register, it gets enacted 99.99% of time, no.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By doubleshot00:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By m1garand30064:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.


People seem pretty pessimistic about 41p (myself included). I don't get the feeling from anyone that it won't go through. A few of my friends pretty well connected in the nfa community think it is a done deal.


It is a done deal.


Sounds like you know something that NO ONE else knows about?


Other than Director of ATF telling me it is a done deal, and knowing when a Federal Agency posts a RFC in the Federal Register, it gets enacted 99.99% of time, no.

Awesome, this is great news isnt it? I mean the director of the atf telling you classified info to post on a public message board, what could possibly go wrong?
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 10:39:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By nchapa:

Awesome, this is great news isnt it? I mean the director of the atf telling you classified info to post on a public message board, what could possibly go wrong?
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Originally Posted By nchapa:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By doubleshot00:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.


It is a done deal.


Sounds like you know something that NO ONE else knows about?


Other than Director of ATF telling me it is a done deal, and knowing when a Federal Agency posts a RFC in the Federal Register, it gets enacted 99.99% of time, no.

Awesome, this is great news isnt it? I mean the director of the atf telling you classified info to post on a public message board, what could possibly go wrong?


It isn't exactly an Edward Snowden level leak. ......
Link Posted: 3/10/2015 10:48:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By nchapa:
Awesome, this is great news isnt it? I mean the director of the atf telling you classified info to post on a public message board, what could possibly go wrong?
View Quote


Well I tried to sell it to the Russians, they laughed at me. Chinese and Iranians would not pay either, so l leaked on ARFCOM last month.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/440320_Rugged_Suppressors_Official_Announcement_and_QandA.html&page=1
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 12:18:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2015 12:19:38 AM EDT by david05111]
RenegadeX - any hints you can drop or hypotheses you have regarding how exactly this is going to work? For instance, are forms in progress affected? If you submit a few days before the change is made official, will they kick the application back for you to get the signature and fingerprints? Or are we talking applications forthwith from the date of the change, while the applications in progress won't require it?

Link Posted: 3/11/2015 5:29:38 AM EDT
Remember when someone supposedly found the M855 ban already published months before the end of the comment period?

That one was a done deal, too.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 7:27:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ZMV:
Remember when someone supposedly found the M855 ban already published months before the end of the comment period?

That one was a done deal, too.
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Difference here is that there are a lot more AR owners than NFA owners. We just cant create the negative wave the AR community can.

The optimist in me is thankful that it is not a law like the 86 MG ban, but a simple rule change that could hopefully be reversed with a little lobbying once a new gun friendly president enters the white house. Hopefully Obama has done enough political damage where that will be a reality in 2016. If that happens then there is a chance this is a temporary thing and we will be able to save the numerous jobs that will be lost if this becomes permanent.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 9:29:11 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ZMV:
Remember when someone supposedly found the M855 ban already published months before the end of the comment period?

That one was a done deal, too.
View Quote


HaHa! Right.

I think this whole thing is a scare tactic. A bunch of Bullshit! People like the guy that say the "Director" of the ATF told "HIM" of ALL people it was a done deal, are the dipshits keeping it alive! Say what you want!

This is the first time I've thought about it since November..........
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 9:45:04 AM EDT
Even if he said summer, that could simply be in line with the May date we've had all along. It seems a bit presumptuous to think the ATF would tip its hand to someone who asked at SHOT.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 9:53:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 10:23:50 AM EDT
I can't decide if I want to pick up another Spectre II while I can or not. The local shop I got mine from has a second one with the next serial # so I would have sequential serial #'s
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 10:28:57 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ZMV:
Remember when someone supposedly found the M855 ban already published months before the end of the comment period?

That one was a done deal, too.
View Quote


Yeah - that's not even close to the same thing at all.

The "M855 ban" was never even published, they just removed the exemption sheet. They specifically named ammunition that was banned - M855 wasn't on that list.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 11:04:02 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By david05111:
RenegadeX - any hints you can drop or hypotheses you have regarding how exactly this is going to work? For instance, are forms in progress affected? If you submit a few days before the change is made official, will they kick the application back for you to get the signature and fingerprints? Or are we talking applications forthwith from the date of the change, while the applications in progress won't require it?

View Quote


I was just an attendee at SHOT who saw the Director at the ATF booth and asked the status of 41P and got an answer. I have no other insight into how it is going to be implemented.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 12:44:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2015 12:45:46 PM EDT by DwayneHicks]
Given the SC recent ruling specifically about comment periods, and the batfe just lost a public battle over m855 (among others), I sadly believe that 41p is going through. They want a win and this one has been in play for some time. You wont see senators and congressmen getting together to fight for us (on what others call a NFA "loophole") Just my 2 cents, and oh yeah, I believe RenegadeX that the director told him that. You guys think he is making that up crack me the hell up.

Buy now if you have a non friendly cleo....
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 1:01:16 PM EDT
Why are they so resistant to simply dropping CLEO certification? They could _easily_ get background checks for everyone on a trust implement with almost no fuss.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 1:29:40 PM EDT
From what I understand once they have decided on what they were going to do (in May) they would decide on a date that the change would take effect and that would be a minimum of 30 days from the date of the announcement. This would make it June sometime so that would be summer as indicated by RenegadeX.

I suspect they are not going to want to return forms so they will still process things they have received by that date. This will probably mean a HUGE glut of submissions the closer we get to May and a final date is given for trusts. Once that passes they will be working on the backlog for months to come. Once that is cleared out I think they will have a fraction of the current workload since getting CLEO signoff will be impossible for most people.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 1:31:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2015 1:31:33 PM EDT by Jax_Guns]
They are doing it because the CLEO signoff requirement puts NFA out of reach for most people. Between outright refusals and the hassle of doing it I think many people will not even bother.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By column5:
Why are they so resistant to simply dropping CLEO certification? They could _easily_ get background checks for everyone on a trust implement with almost no fuss.
View Quote

Link Posted: 3/11/2015 1:36:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jax_Guns:
They are doing it because the CLEO signoff requirement puts NFA out of reach for most people. Between outright refusals and the hassle of doing it I think many people will not even bother.


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Originally Posted By Jax_Guns:
They are doing it because the CLEO signoff requirement puts NFA out of reach for most people. Between outright refusals and the hassle of doing it I think many people will not even bother.

Originally Posted By column5:
Why are they so resistant to simply dropping CLEO certification? They could _easily_ get background checks for everyone on a trust implement with almost no fuss.



That is so incredibly sad and depressing, total disregard for the law (simple taxation) and constitution (right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed).
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 2:50:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.
View Quote



That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 2:55:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:

That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.
View Quote


So you're saying if any form 1 or form 4 are being processed now and 41p passed, they would all be rejected?
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 3:04:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jax_Guns:
They are doing it because the CLEO signoff requirement puts NFA out of reach for most people. Between outright refusals and the hassle of doing it I think many people will not even bother.


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Originally Posted By Jax_Guns:
They are doing it because the CLEO signoff requirement puts NFA out of reach for most people. Between outright refusals and the hassle of doing it I think many people will not even bother.

Originally Posted By column5:
Why are they so resistant to simply dropping CLEO certification? They could _easily_ get background checks for everyone on a trust implement with almost no fuss.




I want to grab a couple more suppressors but honestly I have other things I would rather (or should) spend money on instead. If the rules change and it becomes too much of a PITA I will just forget about acquiring more NFA items. While they were fun going thru a bunch of extra hoops on top of the 4+ month wait just takes all of the fun out of it for me.

The reality is the only thing I am lacking is a 9mm suppressor and I am not even sure if I actually want one or that I would ever use it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 3:10:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:



That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.



That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.
Dude, you're trying to teach a very experienced NFA dealer how it works? lol

You misunderstood his post. He's saying to fill out and file a bunch of F1's now if you don't want the hassle of or can't get CLEO signature because the trust route without CLEO signature is likely going away.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 3:14:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By rtran:


So you're saying if any form 1 or form 4 are being processed now and 41p passed, they would all be rejected?
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Originally Posted By rtran:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:

That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.


So you're saying if any form 1 or form 4 are being processed now and 41p passed, they would all be rejected?
My guess is that if it is signed and post marked before the implementation date they will process it under the old rules.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 3:15:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2015 4:14:10 PM EDT by freeflyingchris]
Given the recent reaches by the ATF (M855 for example) I believe that they will try their hardest to enact it. I think that they are feeling pressure from the current administration to do everything possible to make it harder to have and own firearms and/or NFA items. There is no reason for them to put it off any more, even if they expect a challenge in court. I also think that the NFA industry is going to suffer because if it do to the increased hurtles involved in getting a from approved. I hope that I am wrong but I feel that it is the trajectory that the ATF is on
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 3:34:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By freeflyingchris:
Given the recent reaches by the ATF (M855 for example) I believe that they will try their hardest to enact it. I think that are feeling pressure from the current administration to do everything possible to make it harder to have and own firearms and/or NFA items. There is no reason for them to put it off any more, even if they expect a challenge in court. I also think that the NFA industry is going to suffer because if it do to the increased hurtles involved in getting a from approved. I hope that I am wrong but I feel that it is the trajectory that the ATF is on
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The manufacturers/dealers/other groups need to figure out a legal fund. There is no reason the rule change cannot get struck down once it's enacted, it will just take some effort and time.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 3:41:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By rtran:


So you're saying if any form 1 or form 4 are being processed now and 41p passed, they would all be rejected?
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Originally Posted By rtran:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:

That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.


So you're saying if any form 1 or form 4 are being processed now and 41p passed, they would all be rejected?



If they are like any other gov't agency, they will probably say "41P goes into full effect on this date, applications received on or after that date will need to conform by the new rules".

But nobody really knows.

Again, there's no time like the present. The sooner you file, the sooner you get approval.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 3:48:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Hater:
Dude, you're trying to teach a very experienced NFA dealer how it works? lol

You misunderstood his post. He's saying to fill out and file a bunch of F1's now if you don't want the hassle of or can't get CLEO signature because the trust route without CLEO signature is likely going away.
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Originally Posted By Hater:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.



That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.
Dude, you're trying to teach a very experienced NFA dealer how it works? lol

You misunderstood his post. He's saying to fill out and file a bunch of F1's now if you don't want the hassle of or can't get CLEO signature because the trust route without CLEO signature is likely going away.


I see what you mean, but to your "lol" comment. Being a dealer does not make one more or less qualified than anyone else who understands the NFA process.

I'm simply saying that having Form 1s waiting in the wings is not going to be a hedge against future transfers, as he was alluding to with his pre '86 RDIAS comment.

Filing would only help YOU get YOUR NFA stuff before needing CLEO approval, it won't be even remotely like the '86 MG ban---not to say it won't be bad, just that it won't be "the end" for people wanting to get into NFA.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 5:35:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2015 5:40:04 PM EDT by RenegadeX]
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:



That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.
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Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.



That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.


You misunderstood the analogy. Repeating what I wrote, the reference to MG ban was about the doubters who were certain it was going to be removed. It didn't happen. And then folks didn't think the AWB was going to happen. Nobody seems to learn from history and prepare for the worst case. Same here, many fence sitters who cannot get CLEO and think 41P is not going to happen might wish they had filed a few F1s before it went into effect.

Filing now is what folks who cannot get a CLEO need to do. If you can get CLEO, 41P really does not matter.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 5:51:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:


You misunderstood the analogy. Repeating what I wrote, the reference to MG ban was about the doubters who were certain it was going to be removed. It didn't happen. And then folks didn't think the AWB was going to happen. Nobody seems to learn from history and prepare for the worst case. Same here, many fence sitters who cannot get CLEO and think 41P is not going to happen might wish they had filed a few F1s before it went into effect.

Filing now is what folks who cannot get a CLEO need to do. If you can get CLEO, 41P really does not matter.
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Reminds me of Apr/1986 when folks were certain NRA would get MG ban stripped. How did that work out? Worked out pretty good for those that made RDIASs JIT.

I would submit several F1s, right now. You can get your money back later if you do not make anything. Especially you rtran, no need to wait for a finished designed.



That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.


You misunderstood the analogy. Repeating what I wrote, the reference to MG ban was about the doubters who were certain it was going to be removed. It didn't happen. And then folks didn't think the AWB was going to happen. Nobody seems to learn from history and prepare for the worst case. Same here, many fence sitters who cannot get CLEO and think 41P is not going to happen might wish they had filed a few F1s before it went into effect.

Filing now is what folks who cannot get a CLEO need to do. If you can get CLEO, 41P really does not matter.



Or if you're lazy like myself. Haha. My sheriff will sign off but I just didn't want another step. I just applied for a bunch of items that should hold me over for a long time. Two SBR's and four suppressors.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 6:02:16 PM EDT
I'm pretty new to the NFA world, so can someone explain this to me please. I live in a county where the CLEO will not sign off so I have a trust, if 41P goes into affect can I kiss new NFA items goodbye?
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 6:03:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2015 6:03:51 PM EDT by jbntex]
I actually signed up for eFile last night and am looking at submitting a dozen F1s or so just to hedge my bets.

I even have a CLEO that will sign and have always done almost everything as an individual, but there is no guarantee that my CLEO will always sign in the future, especially if he goes from signing a handful of applications now to a potential deluge in the future as everybody has to go to him for sigs.

I figure a dozen approvals to build will keep my busy for the next decade.



Link Posted: 3/11/2015 6:20:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ManBearPack:
I'm pretty new to the NFA world, so can someone explain this to me please. I live in a county where the CLEO will not sign off so I have a trust, if 41P goes into affect can I kiss new NFA items goodbye?
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That's the proposal. All responsible parties (still not defined) will have to go through the same process that individuals currently do. Prints/pics/sigs.

Forget an individual using a trust...think about the fiasco that would ensue with a corporation with hundreds of members.
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 7:27:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By rtran:


So you're saying if any form 1 or form 4 are being processed now and 41p passed, they would all be rejected?
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Originally Posted By rtran:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:

That's not how any of this works...

When the MG ban happened, it created an artificial scarcity.

41P does nothing to newly manufactured NFA items, just with how many hoops you have to jump through for newly approved forms.


"Filing a bunch of Form 1s" is only beneficial if you are looking to augment your collection, it won't hedge against 41P. There won't be any "pre-41P transferables" that magically don't need CLEO approval if they were filed under a trust.


So you're saying if any form 1 or form 4 are being processed now and 41p passed, they would all be rejected?



The short and long answer - no one knows but the atf. We will find out soon enough
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 7:50:29 PM EDT
Would it be possible to just have a trustee in an NFA-friendly jurisdiction to get the sign offs, as long as they have sets of fingerprint cards for the rest of the trustees?
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 8:04:58 PM EDT
So, if this goes into effect, eForms is essentially shutdown for everyone as far as Form 1s are concerned??
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 8:23:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AlabamaPaul:
So, if this goes into effect, eForms is essentially shutdown for everyone as far as Form 1s are concerned??
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Unless they let you upload pics, and scan & upload prints and sigs, that's what it sounds like.

Form 4s also would be useless in EForms 2.0.

They could do the F3 transfer (should be instant), and maybe add the 5320.20 (which they should do anyway).
Link Posted: 3/11/2015 8:38:11 PM EDT
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