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Posted: 11/11/2012 6:13:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/11/2012 6:14:05 PM EST by JRLott]
Which one would be preferable for a single story home in terms of strength and heat blocking? Is it possible to buy the film not installed? I haven't been able to find it.
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 7:18:42 PM EST
This past weekend at the gun show I saw stainless steel security screens. He was beating them with a baseball bat and barely denting them in. I've seen the 3M film, but I think these screens might be better. Maybe get both.

I have bars installed. But they have padlocks and I don't remember the combos. I'd be fucked trying to get out other than the door, but I haven't been breached yet.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 1:10:24 AM EST
The 3M film really works. Just find a dealer and have it installed correctly and you are GTG
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 3:47:55 AM EST
Hadn't seen the SS screens. Doubt the bride would go for that, and I'm not a big fan of bars whether I'm behind them willingly or as an unwilling guest.

I can't imagine there being that much to spraying soapy water on a window, peeling a backing off the film, and squeegeeing water out. I'm sure the thicker stuff is a bit more challenging to work with, but I've tinted plenty of windows and would rather do most projects myself.

I have 13 windows in the house. Just guessing from what I've found so far, it is $100-$125 per window. If I can get the film itself for half that, I'd be half way to another Stealth upper in savings.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 4:45:41 AM EST
To be done correctly, the film needs to cover the entire window, including behind the frame that the glass sits in... makes a big difference in the performance of the film from what I've read.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 6:27:18 AM EST
Where have you read that? I've seen where it should be bonded to the frame with the Corning silicon you can buy off Amazon.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 10:46:00 PM EST
I just had mine installed at the house.

2 sliding glass door sets, 3 bedroom windows. $600 installed and a lifetime warranty. good enough price for me for peace of mind and some UV protection on my custom hardwood floors
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 2:34:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By JRLott:
Where have you read that? I've seen where it should be bonded to the frame with the Corning silicon you can buy off Amazon.


Not "should" but "MUST" be attached to the frame with adhesives or physical flashing. Otherwise you create a catch system for the glass that can easily be knocked out and help keep an intruder from getting cut.

There are tons of installers out there applying films improperly to unknowing homeowners.
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 3:52:36 AM EST
That's not too bad, J. If I had a sliding glass door or a really large window, I probably wouldn't do them myself, but I don't and if I can buy the film myself...well, it's the same glue and UV rating, so I don't see where I'm losing out.

I'm not disagreeing with bonded to the frame, ag, but that's not the same as installed behind the frame.

Original question still stands, is it possible to buy the 3M film outright and which one?
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 5:45:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By JRLott:
That's not too bad, J. If I had a sliding glass door or a really large window, I probably wouldn't do them myself, but I don't and if I can buy the film myself...well, it's the same glue and UV rating, so I don't see where I'm losing out.

I'm not disagreeing with bonded to the frame, ag, but that's not the same as installed behind the frame.

Original question still stands, is it possible to buy the 3M film outright and which one?


This is obvious, but typically the applications being discussed are for existing window applications. Rarely is it possible or financially feasible to apply film around the window glass and into the frame. This application is traditionally done during manufacturing. That is why I mention adhesives and flashing additions (strapping, clipping, etc.).

Beyond poor application methods there are plenty of companies out there that will sell this stuff to people with vinyl and thin walled metal framed windows (low strength). In these cases the "contractor" rarely discusses the limitations of the frames themselves. I cannot stress enough the number of people out there who have spent a lot of money to gain little to no increased protection. In many cases money could be better spent on alternative security measures.

I say this as someone who is involved in the testing of windows, films, laminates, etc and their construction techniques for use in a variety of applications. One of those being blast survivability.





Yes you can buy the stuff outright. Usually you can find a local dealer (google), who should have several products. But if not 3M actually has a dealer locator on their site. There are some online vendors too (not dealt with any of these).

Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:02:39 AM EST
Right, ag. Not taking my windows apart to install, and was planning on bonding to the frame itself with the Dow Corning sealant. I didn't think about weak window frames. Thanks for that. I might go with a lower cost product since mine are aluminum.

All the local dealers I've found want to install it themselves and my google-fu sucks too much to find online dealers. I've found comparable products. One is a 4 mil for $235 for all my windows, which I am seriously considering after your post. Another is an 8 mil from the same company for $535, and a different company has a 10 mil for $925. The 3M dealers quoted me $1650 for the ultra line and $3650 for the prestige line. That price difference is the entire reason for this thread. I was figuring $750-$1000 for materials, but since I hadn't considered the frame itself as being the weakest point until now, I might just save a BUNCH more and go with the $235 option.

Thanks I owe ya a beer if you're ever in tea sipper country, since I'm in enemy territory.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:42:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By JRLott:
Right, ag. Not taking my windows apart to install, and was planning on bonding to the frame itself with the Dow Corning sealant. I didn't think about weak window frames. Thanks for that. I might go with a lower cost product since mine are aluminum.

All the local dealers I've found want to install it themselves and my google-fu sucks too much to find online dealers. I've found comparable products. One is a 4 mil for $235 for all my windows, which I am seriously considering after your post. Another is an 8 mil from the same company for $535, and a different company has a 10 mil for $925. The 3M dealers quoted me $1650 for the ultra line and $3650 for the prestige line. That price difference is the entire reason for this thread. I was figuring $750-$1000 for materials, but since I hadn't considered the frame itself as being the weakest point until now, I might just save a BUNCH more and go with the $235 option.

Thanks I owe ya a beer if you're ever in tea sipper country, since I'm in enemy territory.


I just moved out of TU territory a year ago. No living just south in the heart of the hill country.

I think you are on the right track. Your goal here is not to stop a battering ram but some a-hole with a hammer or a crowbar. In the 4-8Mil range someone will be able to spider the glass but is going to have a hard time getting through if you bond to the frame. Aluminum is much much better than a lot of the low cost vinyl windows that are being sold these days. Remember to consider the strength of your window locking mechs, again another weak point. Many can be defeated with a quick pry.

Home security is really no different than what we do for government facilities. The main goal is to improve as many weak points as possible, but improvements need to all be considered on relative terms (ie the whole house). No sense in putting up a solid steel front door if the back door is made of balsa wood. Simple upgrades can go a long way.

Here is 3Ms link: 3MFilm
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 10:23:45 AM EST

Well I was just quoted $16 / sq. ft. for the 3M security and UV protection film. Does this sound right?


Bigfeet
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 7:25:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bigfeet:

Well I was just quoted $16 / sq. ft. for the 3M security and UV protection film. Does this sound right?


Bigfeet


Yup. That's about what I was quoted for the prestige film. The ultra was about half that.

I'll keep that in mind next time I'm heading to Cabela's, ag.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 12:30:20 PM EST
I'm interested in the film as well. I got quoted $1100 for the security grade 3M film for 15 average size windows. Then they add another $1000-1200 if you want the film attached to the window frame. That seems really high for just using a high bond adhesive tape to attach the edge of the film to the frame.

I may just get a bigger & stronger safe for that kind of money.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 12:40:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mike_48:
I'm interested in the film as well. I got quoted $1100 for the security grade 3M film for 15 average size windows. Then they add another $1000-1200 if you want the film attached to the window frame. That seems really high for just using a high bond adhesive tape to attach the edge of the film to the frame.

I may just get a bigger & stronger safe for that kind of money.


I thought they just caulked it to the frame.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 5:35:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:
Originally Posted By Mike_48:
I'm interested in the film as well. I got quoted $1100 for the security grade 3M film for 15 average size windows. Then they add another $1000-1200 if you want the film attached to the window frame. That seems really high for just using a high bond adhesive tape to attach the edge of the film to the frame.

I may just get a bigger & stronger safe for that kind of money.


I thought they just caulked it to the frame.


They do. This is a big scam these installers try to pull. They quoted me about 1200 for the film and another 1200 for a "gasket system" that attaches it to the frame. I thought that sounded funny and said no. I did the caulking myself. It cost 7.95 for a tube of Dow Corning 995 caulk.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 5:50:20 PM EST
You do not want to tackle this yourself unless you have plenty extra material and extreme patience. I was certified to install it and it is a pain to work with. Its very thick and very sticky. Also the sealant is just caulk and that's a level of protection. We used a llumar product and each attachment type was a better level of protection. The adhesive caulk is a must or your entire glass will shatter and flop in as one sheet of broken glass stuck to the film.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 7:51:04 PM EST
Do expand on the different types of attachment. I ordered 50 feet of 60" film and need 42 feet. My patience is only slightly greater than Obama's respect for the Constitution. I'll be buying a tube or two of 995 and caulking too. I went with a 4 mil 35% film from Condor. No it isn't 3M, but it was $235 shipped to my door. 3M wouldn't even laugh at me for that price.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 8:05:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By JRLott:
Do expand on the different types of attachment. I ordered 50 feet of 60" film and need 42 feet. My patience is only slightly greater than Obama's respect for the Constitution. I'll be buying a tube or two of 995 and caulking too. I went with a 4 mil 35% film from Condor. No it isn't 3M, but it was $235 shipped to my door. 3M wouldn't even laugh at me for that price.


I'll give you $500 to do my first floor.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 2:35:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By JRLott:
Do expand on the different types of attachment. I ordered 50 feet of 60" film and need 42 feet. My patience is only slightly greater than Obama's respect for the Constitution. I'll be buying a tube or two of 995 and caulking too. I went with a 4 mil 35% film from Condor. No it isn't 3M, but it was $235 shipped to my door. 3M wouldn't even laugh at me for that price.


There is a L shaped plastic strip with adhesive tape on both sides. For extreme stuff there is a set up that uses metal brackets and wires. It's been a few years since I did that kind of stuff so I'm sure its changed and advanced since I quit. When we did training stuff there is spec for film and attachment that makes it meet levels of bomb blasts. All depends on type of glass, type of frame, film thickness, etc. We used 4mil as basic stuff up to 8-12mil. I believe we used 15 once or twice. The biggest market is hurricane protection because if nothing else it keeps the glass in sheets vs little chunks flying everywhere.

The hardest part about install is cutting the thicker stuff. Regular tinted stuff is very very thin and easy to trim. The security stuff is hard to trim close to edges and needs a slightly larger gap to help when caulking. The larger gap allows for the caulk to hit frame, glass, and film to hold everything together.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:54:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 4:59:54 AM EST by JRLott]
Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:
Originally Posted By JRLott:
Do expand on the different types of attachment. I ordered 50 feet of 60" film and need 42 feet. My patience is only slightly greater than Obama's respect for the Constitution. I'll be buying a tube or two of 995 and caulking too. I went with a 4 mil 35% film from Condor. No it isn't 3M, but it was $235 shipped to my door. 3M wouldn't even laugh at me for that price.


I'll give you $500 to do my first floor.


I'll let you know how it goes. I might be finding out why the installs are $1000.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:59:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By kyleh:
Originally Posted By JRLott:
Do expand on the different types of attachment. I ordered 50 feet of 60" film and need 42 feet. My patience is only slightly greater than Obama's respect for the Constitution. I'll be buying a tube or two of 995 and caulking too. I went with a 4 mil 35% film from Condor. No it isn't 3M, but it was $235 shipped to my door. 3M wouldn't even laugh at me for that price.


There is a L shaped plastic strip with adhesive tape on both sides. For extreme stuff there is a set up that uses metal brackets and wires. It's been a few years since I did that kind of stuff so I'm sure its changed and advanced since I quit. When we did training stuff there is spec for film and attachment that makes it meet levels of bomb blasts. All depends on type of glass, type of frame, film thickness, etc. We used 4mil as basic stuff up to 8-12mil. I believe we used 15 once or twice. The biggest market is hurricane protection because if nothing else it keeps the glass in sheets vs little chunks flying everywhere.

The hardest part about install is cutting the thicker stuff. Regular tinted stuff is very very thin and easy to trim. The security stuff is hard to trim close to edges and needs a slightly larger gap to help when caulking. The larger gap allows for the caulk to hit frame, glass, and film to hold everything together.


I've seen the L shaped strips, but those won't work on my windows anyway, so I'm going with the caulk. Any tips on how to apply it? My window frame is basically flat with the glass. I was going to try masking the frame and film (after the film dries well first) so the caulk lines are as straight as possible and to keep the aesthetics in the range of reasonably acceptable to Mrs. JR.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 11:25:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By JRLott:
Originally Posted By kyleh:
Originally Posted By JRLott:
Do expand on the different types of attachment. I ordered 50 feet of 60" film and need 42 feet. My patience is only slightly greater than Obama's respect for the Constitution. I'll be buying a tube or two of 995 and caulking too. I went with a 4 mil 35% film from Condor. No it isn't 3M, but it was $235 shipped to my door. 3M wouldn't even laugh at me for that price.


There is a L shaped plastic strip with adhesive tape on both sides. For extreme stuff there is a set up that uses metal brackets and wires. It's been a few years since I did that kind of stuff so I'm sure its changed and advanced since I quit. When we did training stuff there is spec for film and attachment that makes it meet levels of bomb blasts. All depends on type of glass, type of frame, film thickness, etc. We used 4mil as basic stuff up to 8-12mil. I believe we used 15 once or twice. The biggest market is hurricane protection because if nothing else it keeps the glass in sheets vs little chunks flying everywhere.

The hardest part about install is cutting the thicker stuff. Regular tinted stuff is very very thin and easy to trim. The security stuff is hard to trim close to edges and needs a slightly larger gap to help when caulking. The larger gap allows for the caulk to hit frame, glass, and film to hold everything together.


I've seen the L shaped strips, but those won't work on my windows anyway, so I'm going with the caulk. Any tips on how to apply it? My window frame is basically flat with the glass. I was going to try masking the frame and film (after the film dries well first) so the caulk lines are as straight as possible and to keep the aesthetics in the range of reasonably acceptable to Mrs. JR.


Use a very low tack tape. Thats how we did it tape both frame and film. BUT give the film a few days/ week to dry. The film will be sealed up when the caulk is on and not allow the film to dry anymore.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 8:15:17 PM EST
Painters tape was in the plans. How about bead thickness for a basically flat install? On a 90 degree frame to glass I have found to make the bead the third felt side of a triangle...as in not concave, but I haven't seen anything on how to apply on a 180 degree window to frame angle.
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