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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/5/2005 5:29:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 7:04:29 PM EDT by jquillen1985]
There have been so many pieces of legislation restricting our second amendment rights that I can't even keep them all straight. The 1968 gun control act started the whole mail to an FFL deal, but also banned some imports. What's the difference between the import clause in the '68 ban and the '89 ban, and what good came out of the '86 ban? I've heard something about mail order ammo, but the "Firearm Owners Protection Act" is responsible for Joe Average having to pay over $10,000 for a piece of metal. What were the good parts?
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 6:27:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:

What were the good parts?





There were/are none.

Given the ATF practice to "review" the current law & re-interpet it as they see fit, it's almost a moot fucking point what the law says or doesn't say, IMO.

Link Posted: 8/6/2005 6:29:47 AM EDT
Check my sig line.

Now's the time to act.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 7:26:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2005 7:28:32 AM EDT by Galland]
Almost all surplus firearm imports were stopped by the 1968 GCA. The import of pistols under a certain size was also banned. This part of the 1968 GCA is still intact. If your grandpa owns a genuine Fabrique National 'Baby Browning' .25acp pistol, he probably bought it before 1968...

1968 Gun Control Act:

1. Established Federal Firearms Licenses for dealers.
2. Banned mail-order firearms.
3. Banned most surplus imports
4. Banned imported pistols under a certain size.
5. Banned the import of machine guns for sale to civilians.
6. Regulated how end users purchased ammo (requiring them to sign forms and etc.)

Am I missing anything? Probably so.

1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act:

1. Waived/repealed requirement for ammo purchase paperwork.
2. Allowed most surplus imports again.
3. Specified a citizen may travel from point A to B without being subject to local laws.
4. Banned the manufacture and sale of machine guns to civilians.

1989 Executive Order by G.H.W. Bush (aka Bush I)

1. Banned the import of certain firearms by name.

Again, I'm probably forgetting some finer/obscure points. The ban on machine guns in the 1986 FOPA was an amendment passed by a voice vote. They didn't even bother to count the votes! This is why amendments are so deadly and should be avoided whenever possible. The 1986 FOPA was otherwise a pretty good piece of legislation.

Galland
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 9:40:59 AM EDT
Galland,
Thanks for the breakdown. So tell me if I'm right on this. The '86 ban allowed many of the firearms banned in '68 to be reimported, but only three years later, the '89 ban made them illegal again?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:05:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
Galland,
Thanks for the breakdown. So tell me if I'm right on this. The '86 ban allowed many of the firearms banned in '68 to be reimported, but only three years later, the '89 ban made them illegal again?




No, the Bush '89 ban stopped importation of semi-auto "military style" rifles.

The GCA banned importation of actual military surplus firearms - bolt action rifles, pistols, etc.

So, from 1968-1986, it was legal to import HK-91's, semi FAL's, etc., but not Enfields or Lugers.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:00:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sigurd:

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
Galland,
Thanks for the breakdown. So tell me if I'm right on this. The '86 ban allowed many of the firearms banned in '68 to be reimported, but only three years later, the '89 ban made them illegal again?




No, the Bush '89 ban stopped importation of semi-auto "military style" rifles.

The GCA banned importation of actual military surplus firearms - bolt action rifles, pistols, etc.

So, from 1968-1986, it was legal to import HK-91's, semi FAL's, etc., but not Enfields or Lugers.



Ok, but from 1986-1989, it was legal to import both HK-91's, etc. and Enfields, etc? Were all the Mosin-Nagants and Mausers being sold for peanuts right now brought in before this legislation? What law allowed people to start bringing in bolt actions and the like again?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:47:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
Ok, but from 1986-1989, it was legal to import both HK-91's, etc. and Enfields, etc? Were all the Mosin-Nagants and Mausers being sold for peanuts right now brought in before this legislation? What law allowed people to start bringing in bolt actions and the like again?




'86 FOPA allowed milsurp bolt actions and such to be imported again. It has been legal to do so since.

The '89 Bush ban didn't affect milsurps, only semi-auto "assault weapons".
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:45:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sigurd:

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
Ok, but from 1986-1989, it was legal to import both HK-91's, etc. and Enfields, etc? Were all the Mosin-Nagants and Mausers being sold for peanuts right now brought in before this legislation? What law allowed people to start bringing in bolt actions and the like again?




'86 FOPA allowed milsurp bolt actions and such to be imported again. It has been legal to do so since.

The '89 Bush ban didn't affect milsurps, only semi-auto "assault weapons".



Exactly, it didn't matter where the rifle came from, just that it was magazine fed with a pistol grip. Then you get into the whole Chinese AK sporter trick with them importing single stacks or 5rd doubles and pistol grips ect.

Norianco is also now banned, ie any Chinese product, wheather it is a pistol, rifle, shotgun so forth. Some argue this is because Chinna was selling weapons to bad people, I beg to differe and say it is because thier lower prices, but good quality put the American competitiors at a horrific disadvantage.

Russia is also on a very short leash, those Bulgi AK-74s IRC are nothing more then Russians ones, imported to Bulgaria, cut up and exported.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 7:12:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 8:41:16 PM EDT by jquillen1985]
So since 89, how do Bulgarian companies get things like their AK clones passed off as legal, and why didn't H&K come out with something similar for their G3 or SIG with their 55x? And when did the parts count thing come along, and more importantly, WHY did it come along?

ETA: I noticed in Galland's detailed response about how surplus rifles were banned in the 1968 GCA. Does this mean that prior to 1968, foreign companies like H&K or FN surplused their G3's or FAL's and they could be purchased by individuals?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:53:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 10:00:31 PM EDT by Sigurd]

Originally Posted By jquillen1985:
So since 89, how do Bulgarian companies get things like their AK clones passed off as legal, and why didn't H&K come out with something similar for their G3 or SIG with their 55x? And when did the parts count thing come along, and more importantly, WHY did it come along?

ETA: I noticed in Galland's detailed response about how surplus rifles were banned in the 1968 GCA. Does this mean that prior to 1968, foreign companies like H&K or FN surplused their G3's or FAL's and they could be purchased by individuals?





After 1989, companies started imported thumbhole versions of their rifles. HK and SIG both did this. The HK versions were the HK911 and the SR9. There were at least a few thumbhole SIG 550's.

In 1998, thumbhole guns and stripped receivers that could accept high-cap mags were banned from import.

The current Bulgarian AK74's are imported as single stack thumbhole rifles, then converted to the real thing in the US.

Yes, prior to 1968, it was legal to import surplus machineguns and pretty much anything else. I don't think there was much surplusing of FALs or G3s going on back then however, the cold war was in full swing. There are a few pre-68 transferable FN FAL's out there, probably G3's too.

Try and find pics of a Shotgun News from the 50's. You'll want to cry.


ETA: this is the Service Armament catalog from 1957.

www.blackrivermilitaria.com/SAC.html

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 2:44:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 2:55:28 PM EDT by jquillen1985]
So did companies like FN make semi-auto versions of their FAL that were identical to the select fire so they could be sold until 1989? Is this essentially what pre-89 rifles such as an HK91 are; simply a semi auto version of their select fire?

The '68 banned military surplus and foreign machine guns, and the '89 re-legalized military surplus, but since the '86 had come along, the only surplus we could get were bolt actions and pistols, right? I think I've got the '68 ban down, so can someone explain to me in detail that legislation of '89 and correct any mistakes I might have in the previous writing?

What is the danger of the "sporting clause" if we could still have HK91's, FAL's, etc. Isn't the '89 ban much more restrictive?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:50:25 PM EDT
68 GCA also did small things like require serial numbers on all guns.. And Import stamps on imported firearms..
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