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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/14/2001 2:58:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 3:07:21 PM EDT by seamusmcoi]

Ok, some people posted some things on my topic about 55 and 62 grain bullets that got me thinking. So I figured it deserved a topic all its own.

How many think the M4 is ineffective out past 300 meters? And why?

I mean, I understand that with a longer barrel you get a higher velocity and that velocity is a big factor on soft targets. But how much slower is a 55gr bullet out of a 14.5" barrel compared to a 20" at 400 yards? 500? I've seen charts that show the velocity at muzzle or at short distances, but none at long ranges. Just how much slower would the bullet me travelling?

And when I talk about the effectiveness of a round, I don't just mean kills (though of course that's the big thing), but also wounds. It seems that if you can injure a person bad enough to put them out of the fight, and still not kill them right away. Is only dropping a person dead considered "effective"?

In other words, is the M4 a just a close quarter rifle, and 20" the only length that makes the 5.56mm effective long range?

From my limited knowledge, the M4 would do just fine. Anybody else?

Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:04:56 PM EDT
I'm not being a smarta** but would you please define what you feel is an M-4 ?
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:17:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
I'm not being a smarta** but would you please define what you feel is an M-4 ?



Well I thought I made it pretty obvious in my post. Check the title again and see if that's more to your liking.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:39:02 PM EDT
Yes that's a part of the definition of an M-4 and perfectly adequate for the question you've asked.

The 14.5" M4 "is" accurate beyond 300 meters.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:41:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Yes that's a part of the definition of an M-4 and perfectly adequate for the question you've asked.

The 14.5" M4 "is" accurate beyond 300 meters.




oK now i have to be a smartass... What "is" accurate? .5moa? LOL and if your using an M4 to shoot 300m wtf are u thinking leave the long stuff to the snipers.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:48:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Yes that's a part of the definition of an M-4 and perfectly adequate for the question you've asked.

The 14.5" M4 "is" accurate beyond 300 meters.



Did I ask if it was accurate out to 300 meters? Go back and read, maybe then you'll get it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 3:54:50 PM EDT
Glo1,
This is getting real boring. There is no mention of .5 moa nor snipers.

So long as the .223 round has 2500fps muzzle velocity or more it will retain its lethality.
When compared to the M16A2 the accuracy is less of course but apparently not as much less than I would have thought.
How much less - beats me. However the M4 is considered effective at 500 yards.
My rough rule of thumb has always been about 500yds max for a full length barrelled AR-15/M-16/AR-18/AR-180, etc., and about 700 yds for a .308 - maybe 800yds in a pinch.

Link Posted: 12/14/2001 4:48:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 5:04:38 PM EDT by 5subslr5]
seamusmcoi,
14.5" M4 is effective beyond 300 meters.

(The above is written for about an average seven year old. I know, I know probably still above you seamusmcoi - get it ?)

Link Posted: 12/14/2001 5:27:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 8:30:49 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 8:36:40 PM EDT
5.56 will penetrate a metal helmet at 500 meters, so it will probably penetrate you. It might not produce instant incapacitation, but even a .22 hole through the innards would probably get most people to reevaluate their priorities.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 8:43:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 8:50:26 PM EDT
Troy,

You shouldn't rely on the secondhand information from a warrior, filtered through a journalist with no firearms experience as reference material on the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of military ammunition. If anything, the events of Oct 3-4, 1993 served to show just what our warriors are made of. I for one am damn proud of them.

If you like, we could start another topic in the Ammunition Forum to explore this further, but I think it wouldn't bring out much new material.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 9:34:40 PM EDT
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