User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 12:42:09 PM EDT
Just a quick photo of one of the M14s still being used by the United States Border Patrol. This one was made by Winchester.
The barrel has been cut to 18" and the barrel is capped with a Vortex flash hider. The stock is a VLTOR and the hand guard is a USGI that's been painted tan to match. The other mod is the addition of a Sadlak extended/widened mag release. The optic pictured is a Night Force ATACR 1-8 variable. This rilfe is actually a "Gen 2" version. The previous model was also cut to 18" but used the Troy railed stock and handguard. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 12:50:08 PM EDT
[#1]
When the base gun is free you can use your limited weapons upgrade money to polish not necessarily a turd but a rifle that's been out of service for a while.
A klooged 7.62 capability is better than none at all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 12:51:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Well that's freaking sexy.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 1:00:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the base gun is free you can use your limited weapons upgrade money to polish not necessarily a turd but a rifle that's been out of service for a while. A klooged 7.62 capability is better than none at all. Generally I think eveyone would have been happier with some type of AR10 format or posibly a SCAR17. But, yes, the rifles were free. Down side is some spare parts are not readily available and the manual of arms is a bit wonky to guys with little or no rifle experience other than the AR. BTW ammo used for these is a Federal 165 bonded soft point. Not a bad choice for something like this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 1:05:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for posting this!
 So DRMO provided these to DHS? Does it still have the select fire parts? How is the accuracy? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 1:17:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for posting this! So DRMO provided these to DHS? Does it still have the select fire parts? How is the accuracy? Not DRMO per se but they did come from DoD. They are all USGI and select fire although none have the selector installed. Accuracy is okay. Most are about 3" guns. Some of that's the ammo. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 3:48:36 PM EDT
[#6]
My heart cried...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 3:59:18 PM EDT
[#7]
There is no DRMO anymore and hasn't been for years.
It's just DLA (RTD) and FEPP (Federal Excess Property Program) and GSA (GSAXcess). There's also LESO, which is a subordinate office of DLA that facilitates transfer of M14 rifles (along with M16 rifles, 1911 pistols, and some shotguns) to state/local LE, although they technically remain DLA property. DLA also makes other unclassified RTD/FEPP property available to state & local governments, museums, schools, and certain non-profit organizations. The remainder of the property goes to public auction but only if its DEMIL code is A or Q6. The amount of surplus property they destroy is staggering. Nice to see the M14 still in use. We have a few at my local LE agency. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 5:51:09 PM EDT
[#8]
It’s basically a very similar action to the Garand. Pretty cool.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 6:01:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When the base gun is free you can use your limited weapons upgrade money to polish not necessarily a turd but a rifle that's been out of service for a while. A klooged 7.62 capability is better than none at all. The M14 has continued to be in limited use since the M16 replaced it in standard use, so it's never been entirely out of service. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 6:10:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Cool-looking rifle.
My biggest concern about optics on the M-14 is whether ejected brass will bash the mount/optic. Buddy on my rifle team shot a Vortex optic on his M1A for a year. Killed the scope. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 6:42:26 PM EDT
[#11]
I wonder if any of their users have figured out that you can convert a "selector lock" semi-only M14 to FA in about 2 minutes.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 7:00:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool-looking rifle. My biggest concern about optics on the M-14 is whether ejected brass will bash the mount/optic. Buddy on my rifle team shot a Vortex optic on his M1A for a year. Killed the scope. These guns, called Heavy Patrol Rifles, have been kicking around for a quite few years. They were originally outfitted with a Trijicon ACOG and none of those scopes failed that I'm aware of. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 7:08:19 PM EDT
[#13]
With a gun like that FA is going to be useless an unnecessary. Especially for an LEO.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2020 9:36:32 PM EDT
[#14]
I like it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 6:16:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a gun like that FA is going to be useless an unnecessary. Especially for an LEO. These are original USGI guns but all have the selector lock in place. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 10:49:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Down side is some spare parts are not readily available and the manual of arms is a bit wonky to guys with little or no rifle experience other than the AR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 11:38:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, the manual of arms on the AR is the awkward one while the one on the M14 is more natural as it parallels those used on rifles for generations. The AR's non-ergonomic controls, especially the charging handle and to many the pistol grip, are long known to be awkward for the new shooter to learn while those on the M14, like the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine before it are much more natural to most. Yip. I agree. The M14s charging handle is a lot more natural and just the pleasant feel of the wood stock makes it more intuitive. But if a shooter learns on an AR it might feel as natural. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 12:06:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Generally I think eveyone would have been happier with some type of AR10 format or posibly a SCAR17. But, yes, the rifles were free. Down side is some spare parts are not readily available and the manual of arms is a bit wonky to guys with little or no rifle experience other than the AR. BTW ammo used for these is a Federal 165 bonded soft point. Not a bad choice for something like this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When the base gun is free you can use your limited weapons upgrade money to polish not necessarily a turd but a rifle that's been out of service for a while. A klooged 7.62 capability is better than none at all. Generally I think eveyone would have been happier with some type of AR10 format or posibly a SCAR17. But, yes, the rifles were free. Down side is some spare parts are not readily available and the manual of arms is a bit wonky to guys with little or no rifle experience other than the AR. BTW ammo used for these is a Federal 165 bonded soft point. Not a bad choice for something like this. Better than the old issue of Samson 150 soft points. They were free gifts from my BP friend who never got around to shooting all he was allotted. He used to also give me Rem 165 grain .40 from when the had the Beretta 96. Those .40s were a bit hot. That 165 bonded is plenty good for any needed through vehicle use if needed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 12:17:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He used to also give me Rem 165 grain .40 from when the had the Beretta 96. That was a Remington 155gr load. Later followed by a 155gr Federal and then replaced all together with a 180gr. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 12:32:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder if any of their users have figured out that you can convert a "selector lock" semi-only M14 to FA in about 2 minutes. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 12:39:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yip. I agree. The M14s charging handle is a lot more natural and just the pleasant feel of the wood stock makes it more intuitive. But if a shooter learns on an AR it might feel as natural. Hard argument to make nowadays with the "upstart" M16 pushing 60 years of service. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 12:51:21 PM EDT
[#22]
I.... actually dont hate that.
Makes sense given the access to the rifles themselves, certainly a much more capable platform than before... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 12:55:58 PM EDT
[#23]
I’ve got an older model with GI parts. I shoot it every so often in CMP Garand matches. It shoots similar scores to the ARs also in the Modern Military category.
I absolutely would not feel ill equipped with one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 7:26:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Park Rangers Service use the M14 too as does California State Park Rangers.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 9:14:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Doesn’t the military still use M14 variants, or have they completely done away with them? I know they had a few souped up models a number of years ago for the War on Terror but are any still in inventory?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 9:52:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't the military still use M14 variants, or have they completely done away with them? I know they had a few souped up models a number of years ago for the War on Terror but are any still in inventory? I was buddies with a few of their scout platoon guys, guys that typically shoot a bit. To a man, they all hated them. They much preferred the M110's and couldnt wait to get their hands on the H&Ks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2020 11:52:35 PM EDT
[#27]
I’ve read negative reports about the excessive weight of the Sage stocks used on the EBRs. Wonder if that’s the reason or if they just didn’t find them as accurate or reliable?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2020 12:10:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've read scouting reports about the excessive weight of the Sage stocks used on the EBRs. Wonder if that's the reason or if they just didn't find them as accurate or reliable? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2020 8:31:46 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weight, accuracy and ergos compared to the M110 where their reasons. Mirrors what others have said. The Border Patrol calls these modified rifles the Heavy Patrol Rifle. We joke about the emphasis on heavy. The VLTOR stock helps some. I think it shaves about a half a pound vs the earlier variant with the Troy stock. But the rifle with optic is still about twleve pounds. Add in a couple mags of ammo and the Agent is quickly humping fourteen pounds. Not counting pistol belt with radio and other law enforcement gear plus body armor and a CamelBak full of water. Ergonomic design is different as mentioned but the VLTOR stock feels pretty good and does a decent job of making the M14 sort of "point" like an AR. I forgot to mention earlier that the guns have someone's extended bolt stop installed so the bolt can be released in a fashion similar to the AR. Reloads are still slower but the bolt release does help. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2020 8:56:43 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was a Remington 155gr load. Later followed by a 155gr Federal and then replaced all together with a 180gr. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He used to also give me Rem 165 grain .40 from when the had the Beretta 96. That was a Remington 155gr load. Later followed by a 155gr Federal and then replaced all together with a 180gr. I stand corrected, they were hot rockets. I much preferred the 180 hydrashoks we had at the time but free is free! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2020 11:17:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Border Patrol calls these modified rifles the Heavy Patrol Rifle. We joke about the emphasis on heavy. The VLTOR stock helps some. I think it shaves about a half a pound vs the earlier variant with the Troy stock. But the rifle with optic is still about twleve pounds. Add in a couple mags of ammo and the Agent is quickly humping fourteen pounds. Not counting pistol belt with radio and other law enforcement gear plus body armor and a CamelBak full of water. Ergonomic design is different as mentioned but the VLTOR stock feels pretty good and does a decent job of making the M14 sort of "point" like an AR. I forgot to mention earlier that the guns have someone's extended bolt stop installed so the bolt can be released in a fashion similar to the AR. Reloads are still slower but the bolt release does help. overall the BP has a winner with the HPR, so long as they dont have to carry it too far 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2020 11:21:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well that's freaking sexy. By sexy you mean the abortion that results form having had sex |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2020 12:10:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve read scouting reports about the excessive weight of the Sage stocks used on the EBRs. Wonder if that’s the reason or if they just didn’t find them as accurate or reliable? As posted above....the EBR stock will find any strap, loop, or other equipment and get caught on it. Reliability was also not great. Not sure how much was the M14s general susceptibility to dust or lack of maintenance training. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2020 3:26:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Dang the more I look at it, I say to myself “wow, that’s so cool.”
I am not up to snuff on current M14/M1A stuff but if the quality is still there Springfield Armory makes an 18” “Scout Squad” rifle that could be used to clone this. The optic is just south of $3K so I’d probably get something a little “lower tier” LOL! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2020 1:25:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, the manual of arms on the AR is the awkward one while the one on the M14 is more natural as it parallels those used on rifles for generations. The AR's non-ergonomic controls, especially the charging handle and to many the pistol grip, are long known to be awkward for the new shooter to learn while those on the M14, like the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine before it are much more natural to most. I’m sorry, but the AR manual of arms is far easier to master. It is simply much better for gun fighting. Yes, FYI I am quite efficient with both systems and others as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2020 1:54:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool-looking rifle. My biggest concern about optics on the M-14 is whether ejected brass will bash the mount/optic. Buddy on my rifle team shot a Vortex optic on his M1A for a year. Killed the scope. Quite a bit of bashing can be helped by turning the scope 90 degrees and using the elevation turret for windage and vice versa. I have three Super Match rifles (as well as a few others). One Springfield rebuild in a Fajen stock from the early 90's, one factory SM, and one ground up build by Ted Brown on an LRB M25 with the built in scope mounting system in a McMillan stock. All three are extremely accurate, the Ted Brown being way better than MOA, but all three suffer from the same problem of shooting "loose" in their bedding, mostly caused my the rare removal from the stock for a through cleaning. That is the main culprit in accuracy loss in these rifles. But, they were made as a battle rifle and meet those expectations. The M1 Garand has the same faults. Weaknesses as I see them: Stock fit affecting accuracy Outdated ergonomics Limited controllability in full auto Weight Length (with 21" barrel) Having to put your finger in front of the trigger to move the safety to fire |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2020 3:48:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having to put your finger in front of the trigger to move the safety to fire I think the bigger issue is the motion to engage the safety. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2020 4:28:29 PM EDT
[#38]
I like it.
I'd add a stubby vfg up front, too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/28/2020 3:37:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the bigger issue is the motion to engage the safety. That’s outside the trigger guard. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/28/2020 4:23:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s outside the trigger guard. Yes but it is the same motion to activate the safety as to pull the trigger. Place your finger in the wrong spot, thinking you're working the safety, and BAM! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2020 10:43:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes but it is the same motion to activate the safety as to pull the trigger. Place your finger in the wrong spot, thinking you're working the safety, and BAM! You don't activate a M1/M14 safety by trying to reach forward with your trigger finger (or any other lone finger). You do so by moving your hand around the front outside of the trigger guard. Zero chance of accidentally pulling the trigger in the process. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2020 5:33:35 PM EDT
[#42]
I like the look of the rifle in the picture. Wonder why they replaced the VLTOR stock with a CTR w/RISR?
How hard are these VLTOR chassis’s to find? Webpage is sold out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2020 5:41:37 PM EDT
[#43]
Huh first I've heard of these in the Patrol.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2020 6:48:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh first I've heard of these in the Patrol. The M14s have been around in one form or another for quite awhile. The orignal modified guns with the Troy stocks were fielded ten or twelve years ago. These VLTOR guns followed a few years later. There are still some in original configuration floating around but most of those are with honor guard teams and such nowadays. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2020 9:16:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quite a bit of bashing can be helped by turning the scope 90 degrees and using the elevation turret for windage and vice versa. That is exactly what I've done with simple Duplex-reticle scopes mounted on my FAL. Spinning the scope 90-degrees in the rings is a less-attractice option with the gee-whiz reticles that range out to 9,999 meters, with side-grids, disco lights, and which also give your daily horoscope, that are so popular for newer-design scopes. And I still killed a $250 TASCO scope mounted in that orientation on a FAL. Mostly I think because I had to use up all the elevation adjustment to get a 600-yard zero, and the stressed reticle support just said fuckit, after about 25 rounds of the heavy bolt/carrier slamming back and forth.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2020 9:04:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: I like the look of the rifle in the picture. Wonder why they replaced the VLTOR stock with a CTR w/RISR? Comb height. The scope sits rather high given the mount and the base of the previous ACOG scope these had. Replacing the NF scope mount with some different rings might help lower the scope but it's still going to sit pretty high. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2020 9:25:57 AM EDT
[#47]
Our sheriff's dept had a number of DRMO M-14's. They were all recalled in 2002-2003 for obvious reasons. AR-10's were coming into their own around that time, so the M-14 was pretty obsolete, but it was cool to be able to field one for a while. We all bought cheap fiberglass stocks for them, since the wood was pretty beat up.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2020 3:57:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The M14s have been around in one form or another for quite awhile.... There are still some in original configuration floating around but most of those are with honor guard teams and such nowadays. Not all of them are with honor guard teams! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2020 3:59:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not all of them are with honor guard teams! Nope. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
