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Posted: 12/15/2007 3:48:53 PM EST
I want to build an M1, I plan to purchase a receiver from CMP and build from their. What I want to accomplish is an all around dependable weapon for all around use. Anything from taking care of large varmits around the property to fun shoots and target practice. Dependability, quality of parts, and the ability to drive nails are my goals. I plan to use iron sites, but would also like to have a scope mount for long shots.

The plan is all new parts, using improved parts, and some new materials. I will be using one of the new diamond hard coatings for finish and a synthetic stock. I want something that will wear well and be around for many years to come.

1st question is which CMP receiver should I get, I havnt been able to figure out the differences on their page except for the grade ratings. I assume the other ratings are the factories they were from, but no idea of one is better than the other.

2nd is a good resource for parts and goodies. I plane to do most of the build myself, sending it off to be finished and tweaked once I am done.

Thanks!!
Link Posted: 12/15/2007 3:54:24 PM EST
Just be sure your gunsmith is familiar with the M1 /M14 rifle to screw in the barrel and headspace the bolt. I recommend Ronnie Morris in Madison, TN. Orion 7 for parts. The cheaper/easier route is to just buy from CMP, though.
Link Posted: 12/16/2007 8:14:53 AM EST
You want something that will wear well and be around for many years to come? Lets see USGI Garands ahve been around for over 50 years. It would be cheaper to buy a Service Grade from CMP. It will be accurate and all USGI and will be worth more in years to come than your put together with commercial parts
Link Posted: 12/16/2007 8:51:48 AM EST
I have a few service grade M1's that are post war.  Being 50+ years old they are in great shape and very reliable.  I can guarantee that the whizz-bang M1 you want to build has very little over a standard USGI service grade and I can guarantee that you will not wear one out in your lifetime.

But if you want to go that route get an HRA as they are supposed to be the best in finish..  
Link Posted: 12/17/2007 4:58:09 AM EST
Search the older posts here for the one on gunbroker, the green m1.  

The owner coated it with some olive green and black T finish.  Most of the comments were quite negative regarding that approach to an M1 garand but then again it's your money not theirs.  

I think you'd be waaay ahead moneywise to just purchase a complete CMP service grade for $550 and call it good. (and in it's unaltered/mondernized state it'd be very easy to resell should you ever desire it, that green m1 has been for sale for months and it doesn't look like the owner can get his money invested back out)

points to consider.

funny thing is if you did it with an M14/M1a, I think a much higher percentage of people would buy it that way if ever offered for sale.  The world is a odd place sometimes.

Link Posted: 12/17/2007 5:44:07 AM EST
For your stated purpose I would go with the Springfield Armory grade B.  The only difference between it and the Grade A is the B has been refinished and the A retains it's original finish,not a concern for you if a refinish is in the works anyway.

However I agree with the crowd that a much better and cheaper route would be to buy a service grade and then modify it to your standard. Most parts on a service grade would meet the standard of a lifetime of service you set right out of the box. The cost of buying all new parts would be incredible and finding them would be hard anyway.  The only upgrade from original parts I would make in any case is one of the chrome lined barrels that are available. IF NEEDED you could put a new gas cylinder on too.

A CMP service grade with a new chrome lined barrel and  a synthetic stockset finished in one of the new wonder finishes and with a Ultimak foward scope mount would be a hard piece to beat.

EVEN IN GREEN
Link Posted: 12/20/2007 5:43:57 PM EST
On the CMP site looking at the receivers I assume SA is Springfield, what is the WRA on the CMP site stand for? Just funny that they WRA is twice the price of the Springfield stuff, just wondered what the difference was.

Thanks for the answers, you all have given me alot to think about. My goal isnt to put together a gee whiz perty rifle, but a good solid rifle that I will be able to pass on to future generations. Multi purpose, very reliable, and acurate as hell. Resell isnt a problem, as I have never sold a weapon, I only buy em and use em. hasing
Anyway thanks again.
Link Posted: 12/20/2007 6:21:40 PM EST

Quoted:
On the CMP site looking at the receivers I assume SA is Springfield, what is the WRA on the CMP site stand for? Just funny that they WRA is twice the price of the Springfield stuff, just wondered what the difference was.

Thanks for the answers, you all have given me alot to think about. My goal isnt to put together a gee whiz perty rifle, but a good solid rifle that I will be able to pass on to future generations. Multi purpose, very reliable, and acurate as hell. Resell isnt a problem, as I have never sold a weapon, I only buy em and use em.

As far as purchasing a complete CMP rifle, thats in the plans as well. I would rebuild it into like new condition. Unless its a family heirloom, I am not really interested in owning something that is battered and banged up, but thats just me.

Anyway thanks again.


WRA is Winchester Repeating Arms.  

A service grade from the CMP is far from banged up and battered..   Just an FYI, my three service grades are all 1965 arsenal rebuilds with new guaging barrels and were probably put into storage right after rebuild and never fired again until I got them..   But whatever floats your boat.
Link Posted: 12/21/2007 8:44:28 AM EST
"CSP Gun Shopper" has tons of M1 stuff.
Link Posted: 12/21/2007 9:28:40 AM EST
Guess you can leed them to water but can't make them drink
Link Posted: 12/21/2007 4:49:32 PM EST
One thing that is great about the gun hobby is variety. If I want to build a M1 to suit my individual needs, what is wrong with that? I dont mind spending a few extra bucks to do the task, but I dont undestand the resistance I am running into for advice. I dont have a problem with factory correct weapons, but in this case I want something different. I have allready stated in previous posts that resell isnt an issue, this is something that is for me to enjoy, not something to impress others wiith.

I want to use a proven platform to build a tool for personal use, Please gentlemen, dont hoist me on a rail just yet, all I want is some advice and a few pointers.

Now a question from one of the previous posts, what makes the Winchester Arms recievers more valuable or expensive than the PA version?

Thanks!!
Link Posted: 12/22/2007 3:53:56 AM EST

Now a question from one of the previous posts, what makes the Winchester Arms recievers more valuable or expensive than the PA version?


I assume you mean "SA"... Springfield Armory, not "PA"...???

Re Winny:  the Winchester M1 rifles are more desirable STRICTLY from a collectors standpoint.  From a shooters standpoint they are actually about on the bottom of the pile, maker wise.  Never known for stellar accuracy barrels and some of the WORST finish machining I've ever seen has been on Winny made M1's.  Still in spec and functions OK... looks like crap.  Winny was well known for this on their military contract stuff.  Make it cheap, get it out the door.

The higher price stems from the following:   They were made only during WWII.  There were only approx. 1/2 Million of them made as opposed to 3.5 mil of the SA's during the war.   They have the Winny name embossed on the receiver heel.... name mystique.

A rifle with a Winny receiver alone but with all SA parts is not worth much more than any other mixmaster M1....   The true escalation in collector value comes with the addition of Winny parts that are still on it.   With all the rebuilds that the M1's have been through over the decades since WWII the remaining stock of original Winny parts has dwindled well below the actual number of receivers still extant.   Original WRA marked barrels, gas cylinders, and buttstocks can each bring several hundred dollars from those wanting to finish out a Winny.   Other parts, such as bolts, trigger groups, and op-rods are a bit easier to find, but still command quite a price premium over other makers.

A Winny M1 with all Winny parts, even if it is just a put togethers and don't even come close to matching the serials time frame, will bring quite a bit of coin just from the accumulated value of all the individual parts.  Now an all original, verified to have the SAME parts on it as it left the factory Winny (i.e. true, blue "Collector Grade")....   that could bring $$$ up to the 5 figure level from some M1 collectors.   Rare as hens teeth and good luck trying to find one for sale.

Just my 2 bits on that,

Best to all,
Swampy

Garands forever
Link Posted: 12/22/2007 9:04:56 AM EST
Since you don't mind spending the extra $$$.

I would have said........go for the correct grade (from CMP)........late M1s.  They're practically NEW....(almost anyway)......have great out of the box collectability and probably won't need to be re-finished.   BUT, it'll still be GI.    Probably, not what you're looking for.  Hummm, since you were planning on replacing parts and refinishing it..........don't bother.   It'll be WASTED.....on you.

If, I was rich like: You, Donald Trump, Bill Gates or The Royal Prince of Saudi Arabia.......maybe I'd have it finished in Gold Plate.   How's that for a refinish job?  And, since........you got all that extra $$$$ laying around.  Go talk to your gunsmith.....ask: How can YOU spend MY $$$$ to get me, exactly what I want?  

Here........you'll only get "free advice," from folks, who aren't trying, to skin you.

Then, there are some folks who believe: "Free advice, can't be worth much, since it's free."

Aloha, Mark

PS...........

Now a question from one of the previous posts, what makes the Winchester Arms recievers more valuable or expensive than the PA version?
Assuming that PA meant SA.   Come on.....what makes a blonde prettier (more valuable?) than a brunette?  Or NOT?  To each his own.  

As for, a collector item?  Well, some folks are willing to pay more, for an item that is the same (made to the same spec.), but made by a different mfn (even when thousands were made)........so, it's "a collector item."   It's a matter of:  What I want and how much I’ll pay to get it.  And, since I paid more then the going rate.  I can justify the purchase price, by calling it, "a collector item."

O.K., since we were talking about a shooting grade, M1.....IMHO, GI is, as GI does.
Link Posted: 12/22/2007 2:41:37 PM EST
height=8
Quoted:
height=8
Now a question from one of the previous posts, what makes the Winchester Arms recievers more valuable or expensive than the PA version?


I assume you mean "SA"... Springfield Armory, not "PA"...???

Re Winny:  the Winchester M1 rifles are more desirable STRICTLY from a collectors standpoint.  From a shooters standpoint they are actually about on the bottom of the pile, maker wise.  Never known for stellar accuracy barrels and some of the WORST finish machining I've ever seen has been on Winny made M1's.  Still in spec and functions OK... looks like crap.  Winny was well known for this on their military contract stuff.  Make it cheap, get it out the door.

The higher price stems from the following:   They were made only during WWII.  There were only approx. 1/2 Million of them made as opposed to 3.5 mil of the SA's during the war.   They have the Winny name embossed on the receiver heel.... name mystique.

A rifle with a Winny receiver alone but with all SA parts is not worth much more than any other mixmaster M1....   The true escalation in collector value comes with the addition of Winny parts that are still on it.   With all the rebuilds that the M1's have been through over the decades since WWII the remaining stock of original Winny parts has dwindled well below the actual number of receivers still extant.   Original WRA marked barrels, gas cylinders, and buttstocks can each bring several hundred dollars from those wanting to finish out a Winny.   Other parts, such as bolts, trigger groups, and op-rods are a bit easier to find, but still command quite a price premium over other makers.

A Winny M1 with all Winny parts, even if it is just a put togethers and don't even come close to matching the serials time frame, will bring quite a bit of coin just from the accumulated value of all the individual parts.  Now an all original, verified to have the SAME parts on it as it left the factory Winny (i.e. true, blue "Collector Grade")....   that could bring $$$ up to the 5 figure level from some M1 collectors.   Rare as hens teeth and good luck trying to find one for sale.

Just my 2 bits on that,

Best to all,
Swampy

Garands forever


Ty sir for the answer, i do appreciate the time you took to write this down.
Link Posted: 12/22/2007 2:48:59 PM EST
height=8
Quoted:
Since you don't mind spending the extra $$$.

I would have said........go for the correct grade (from CMP)........late M1s.  They're practically NEW....(almost anyway)......have great out of the box collectability and probably won't need to be re-finished.   BUT, it'll still be GI.    Probably, not what you're looking for.  Hummm, since you were planning on replacing parts and refinishing it..........don't bother.   It'll be WASTED.....on you.

If, I was rich like: You, Donald Trump, Bill Gates or The Royal Prince of Saudi Arabia.......maybe I'd have it finished in Gold Plate.   How's that for a refinish job?  And, since........you got all that extra $$$$ laying around.  Go talk to your gunsmith.....ask: How can YOU spend MY $$$$ to get me, exactly what I want?  


Aloha, Mark



So from what you have said, it makes sense for me to purchase a receiver, that way I wont be taking a complete M1 out of circulation and ruining it for those like yourself that seem to beleive the only M1 is a correct M1.

This is a hobby, to each their own. If I wanted to build a gold plated M1 with some exotic one off wood stock then thats my business. I dont however inted on building something so garish. My intention is to build a M1 with modern parts, a better fit and finish than was available when they were built, and something that fits my personal needs and wants. We are not talking about a large budget, I have seen people spend much more than I have planned to spend. This may take me a few years to build, and over that few years I may spend in total a few thousand dollars. I could easily go out and purchase a high powered nail driver for much more than that, but its not what I want, and not something I could afford either.

Link Posted: 12/23/2007 10:25:11 AM EST
you might also want to look at orion 7 in NY or Tony Giacobbe in NJ.  They both build M1's and put a lot of care into them.  I built on on my own from a barreled reciever but I'm sure these two guys could have fit my wood to metal better than i did.

Most guys who post about their work are very happy.  Check around on battlerifles, m14 forum, and cmp.  

ETA- there's also DGR, Dean's gun restoration, who does beautiful work.  I got my walnut stock from him.  Probably a bit pricy but the results are there.

It's your money!  The trend is to preserve these older guns as collectibles and shooters.  Modernizing them is kinda against the grain now, that's why your feeling the urging to leave one stock or have very little done to them.  Of course if you get a stripped reciever, a match aftermarket barrel and have it built with other mostly new parts and put it in a new stock then you're building a CMP select grade and a true shooter.  It sounds like the only thing you might do different is some accuracy mods and maybe a special finish.

That route is probably going to be the best route for what you're looking for though.  I'm thinking you're talking 800-1000 for a close to match shooter versus a cmp service grade that isn't match prepped for 550.  The aftermarket barrel will likely have a better chance of match type accuracy.

don't take other guys opinions as an assault on ya.  (just don't post a cmp collector that you had finished in green teflon either.)

SoS
Link Posted: 12/23/2007 1:51:09 PM EST
height=8
Quoted:
you might also want to look at orion 7 in NY or Tony Giacobbe in NJ.  They both build M1's and put a lot of care into them.  I built on on my own from a barreled reciever but I'm sure these two guys could have fit my wood to metal better than i did.

Most guys who post about their work are very happy.  Check around on battlerifles, m14 forum, and cmp.  

ETA- there's also DGR, Dean's gun restoration, who does beautiful work.  I got my walnut stock from him.  Probably a bit pricy but the results are there.

It's your money!  The trend is to preserve these older guns as collectibles and shooters.  Modernizing them is kinda against the grain now, that's why your feeling the urging to leave one stock or have very little done to them.  Of course if you get a stripped reciever, a match aftermarket barrel and have it built with other mostly new parts and put it in a new stock then you're building a CMP select grade and a true shooter.  It sounds like the only thing you might do different is some accuracy mods and maybe a special finish.

That route is probably going to be the best route for what you're looking for though.  I'm thinking you're talking 800-1000 for a close to match shooter versus a cmp service grade that isn't match prepped for 550.  The aftermarket barrel will likely have a better chance of match type accuracy.

don't take other guys opinions as an assault on ya.  (just don't post a cmp collector that you had finished in green teflon either.hanks
Thanks!!
Link Posted: 12/23/2007 5:11:24 PM EST
I've had good luck with CMP Field grades; I included a little note asking for WWII numbers and good barrels and the first one I got was a 3.3 mil serial numbered FG with 1 mw and te, the second was a 1.3 serial number with .5(!) MW and 1 TE. The wood was more then decent in my opinion, in both cases the only reason I could see they were graded FG was because the finish on the gas tube was non-existent.
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