User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:58:49 AM EDT
Hey gang. I wanted to show you something that they have been talking about over at CastBoolets for a while. I do not intend to take any credit for coming up with this, just wanted to show you a picture of some .40 S&W projectiles I made from 9mm brass and a cast bullet. The core is made from a LEE 125gr cast bullet, inserted upside down in the belled 9mm case. The swaging is done using a CH4D die that is modified by a guy that goes by BT Sniper over at Cast Bullets. The die is $150 and I used a Lyman Crusher II press to do the swaging.
Anyway, thought you guys might be interested in this facet of casting/swaging/reloading. jonblack 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:01:35 AM EDT
[#1]
I seriously need to learn how to do this stuff...
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:03:57 AM EDT
[#2]
pretty cool, how do they shoot?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:05:56 AM EDT
[#3]
Not sure what the point is, but that's cool as hell.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:10:25 AM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By Claybrook:
Not sure what the point is, but that's cool as hell. I'd think they'd be quite a bit cheaper to reload than buying JHP bullets. |
|
|
|
NM, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:12:54 AM EDT
[#5]
Neat. I knew some people made bullets for .223 Rem out of .22 LR cases + lead wire by a similar process, but hadn't seen it done for anything larger.
What about the fact that a 9mm case is significantly smaller than .400" diameter, both at the rim and farther up the case? The diagram in my Lee reloading manual shows a case diameter of 0.391" at the web, just forward of the extractor groove. Of course, those are dimensions for new, unfired 9mm cases. Does 9mm brass expand enough when fired to make up the difference? I know my 10mm brass expands near the web, going from 0.420-0.421" on new brass to near 0.429" after the first firing. Sizing gets it back down to about 0.425". I don't reload 9mm, so I don't know the numbers for it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:14:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Seen this before, but always amazed at how cool it is that this stuff can be done.
|
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:49:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jonblack]
[#7]
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
pretty cool, how do they shoot? Not sure how they shoot. I just got my die and have only made a few, and have not gotten a chance to load any yet. However, the guys over at the CastBoolits forum are pleased with the performance, even if it is only a plinking round. Here is a picture posted by BT Sniper that shows how they expand in wet newspaper. 
Photo by BT Sniper - He says they retained 100% of their weight. Originally Posted By Claybrook:
Not sure what the point is, but that's cool as hell. It costs a few cents in raw materials (not counting equipment) to make your own. Buying jacketed hollow points costs considerably more. Plus it's fun, which has a value. Originally Posted By Objekt:
What about the fact that a 9mm case is significantly smaller than .400" diameter, both at the rim and farther up the case? The diagram in my Lee reloading manual shows a case diameter of 0.391" at the web, just forward of the extractor groove. When you swage the pressure causes the case to fill the cavity of the swaging die. So, you are actually using pressure to squash the case and make it swell. Plus the lead core is swelling inside the case from the hollow point tool going into it. For lack of a better way to describe it, it just works! 
You can see there is enough pressure on the micrometer anvils to suspend the case with no support. jonblack |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:54:55 AM EDT
[#8]
Can you imagine the chaos these would cause if used in a crime? CSI would go into a full tailspin with these bullets.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:57:07 AM EDT
[#9]
Sure looks like a lot of work.... How much time to swage brass and cast bullet to finished product
|
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:01:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Sure looks like a lot of work.... How much time to swage brass and cast bullet to finished product Well, you can cast bullets with a LEE 6-banger pretty darn fast. Takes 2-3 seconds to drop in the core and 3-4 seconds to swage the bullet. Put it this way, it would take me less time, start-to-finish, to make a few hundred of these than it would take me to make the money to buy them. jonblack |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:11:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: glorifiedG]
[#11]
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
Can you imagine the chaos these would cause if used in a crime? CSI would go into a full tailspin with these bullets. Crime lab on the phone with other crime lab... " yeah, the whole thing, case, bullet and all,where did the powder go, WTF? " BTW those look Bad Ass |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:15:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1911smith]
[#12]
Assuming those pictures are yours and pictures are of your finished product, Purely from... I might be interested in doing some day. How much time to take a cast bullet and a piece of brass to swage together to finish. Curious. Looks like a lot of work and for all I know you might be working for a nickle an hour and all the water you can drink like me. If that;s the case it would take some time.
|
|
|
|
NY, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:39:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Would they swage out far enough for .45 bullets?
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:43:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Would they swage out far enough for .45 bullets? No, but BT Sniper just made a set to make .45 bullets from .40 S&W cases. jonblack |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 3:01:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Totally kewl.
When I get moved back into a place that allows me to reload, this will be on my list. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 9:28:10 AM EDT
[#16]
bt sniper makes the swage dies and parts to convert your rp to use them,pretty cool stuff
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 9:40:55 AM EDT
[#17]
That is pretty cool.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 10:04:43 AM EDT
[#18]
Can he make a die to make a .32 into a 9mm?
|
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 10:08:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Pretty cool. I don't reload for pistol calibers right now but when I do I might have to start making my own bullets like this.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 10:26:12 AM EDT
[#20]
so would this work with shot out 9mm (read: reloaded to much) or is this only for relatively new?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 10:38:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Would they swage out far enough for .45 bullets? No, but BT Sniper just made a set to make .45 bullets from .40 S&W cases. jonblack ok, now I'm intertested, where's this at?? |
|
|
|
OH, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 10:47:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DanishM1Garand]
[#22]
Originally Posted By andr3w:
so would this work with shot out 9mm (read: reloaded to much) or is this only for relatively new? This would be perfect for brass case berdan primed stuff and stuff that looks a little too bad to reload. I need to see if he can work this voodoo on 9mm to .410 bullets.... Voodoo |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 10:57:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Pure lead for the core?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 10:59:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By Crowkiller:
Pure lead for the core? Whatever you have handy. |
|
|
|
NM, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 11:02:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GWhis]
[#25]
I just knew 9mm was worth something. Just didn't know for what until now.
 Finally, a worthwhile reason to pick up 9mm brass!
BTW, can't you just use lead wire instead of casting boolits first? |
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 11:49:13 AM EDT
[#26]
Do you have a link handy? I am extremely interested in the .40 brass into .45 projectiles swager.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:28:20 PM EDT
[#27]
This is SOOOO tagged.
|
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:30:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By andr3w:
so would this work with shot out 9mm (read: reloaded to much) or is this only for relatively new? You are simply making a jacket. Shot out cases are fine, and would obviously be more cost effective than new ones. As long as there are no splits, there should be no problems. jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:30:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By tdowell:
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Would they swage out far enough for .45 bullets? No, but BT Sniper just made a set to make .45 bullets from .40 S&W cases. jonblack ok, now I'm intertested, where's this at?? Here you go. jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:33:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
Originally Posted By andr3w:
so would this work with shot out 9mm (read: reloaded to much) or is this only for relatively new? This would be perfect for brass case berdan primed stuff and stuff that looks a little too bad to reload. I need to see if he can work this voodoo on 9mm to .410 bullets.... Voodoo I'm pretty sure that they are making them for .41 for 9mm. I know they are making them for .44 mag, too, but using .40 S&W cases, if I recall correctly. Step on over to the Swaging Forum at CastBoolits to learn more. jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:35:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
Originally Posted By Crowkiller:
Pure lead for the core? Whatever you have handy. Yes, that is correct. Pure lead is going to be easier to swage than WW, but it will also be heavier. You determine your core alloy by what you want to final weight to be. I think WW makes them in the 185gr range and pure lead makes them in the 190gr range. jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:35:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By GWhis:
BTW, can't you just use lead wire instead of casting boolits first? Sure, if you have lead wire in the right diameter. jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:37:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By Sharpest:
Do you have a link handy? I am extremely interested in the .40 brass into .45 projectiles swager. Yes, here is the link. Unfortunately it is much more expensive than making 40 from 9. There is more equipment involved and I am sure more labor. jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:38:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By 96Ag:
Can he make a die to make a .32 into a 9mm? I think they are making 9 from .380, which, in my opinion, is not cost effective. jonblack |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:43:12 PM EDT
[#35]
I'd love to see the look on a forensic examiner's face when he comes across one of these, recovered from a body. Very cool.
|
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:58:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Let me clarify. BT Sniper does not make the dies themselves. He buys swage die bodies from CH4D (no I'm not going to Google them for you) and then makes internal parts like the hollow pointing punch. He sells them as a complete ready to use kit.
This concept really isn't anything new. However, advances are being made in the process that makes using spent cases as jackets more easy and affordable. jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:48:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jonblack]
[#37]
Now you know what to do with that AMERC, S&B, and Non-Toxic brass you have been throwing away.
jonblack |
|
|
NM, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 1:56:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GWhis]
[#38]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By GWhis:
BTW, can't you just use lead wire instead of casting boolits first? Sure, if you have lead wire in the right diameter. jonblack Corbin has Lead wire for sale in 70,000 grn spools for $39.00/spool. Less Shipping???? They have .312", .340", .365" plus other sizes of course. Corbin Link Noticing that the ram presses into the tip to make the hollow point, I can see why your upsidedown bullets are used...gives somewhere for the swaged metal to go. So it would seem that lead wire would have to be smaller in diameter. So what diameter is the lead bullets you used?....or you could link us to the thread that says.  (for 9mm to .40 cal)
Corbin also makes swage dies for .22 cases to .223 bullets.....was really tempted about the time the Obama nightmare started. http://www.corbins.com/kit-224.htm Their all you need kit is $180. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:12:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By jonblack:
Originally Posted By ontheback:
Would they swage out far enough for .45 bullets? No, but BT Sniper just made a set to make .45 bullets from .40 S&W cases. jonblack WOW, they should be able to make a swagging die for the .429 form .40 S&W too! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:27:41 PM EDT
[#40]
I would be very interested if this is a viable option for forming 10mm auto bullets...
Has anyone tried that? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:30:30 PM EDT
[#41]
That's awesome. Would the bullets be safe in poly rifling?
|
|
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:34:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By Wayward_Texan:
I would be very interested if this is a viable option for forming 10mm auto bullets... Has anyone tried that? Here's a secret: 10mm bullets are the same as .40 bullets. There is at least one person over there using these in 10mm. jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:35:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By TheMountaineer:
That's awesome. Would the bullets be safe in poly rifling? They are jacketed. IIRC, the whole poly rifling thing revolves around lead buildup. jonblack |
|
|
KY, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:42:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By TheMountaineer:
That's awesome. Would the bullets be safe in poly rifling? Not sure why they wouldnt be |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:42:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jonblack]
[#45]
Originally Posted By GWhis:
Noticing that the ram presses into the tip to make the hollow point, I can see why your upsidedown bullets are used...gives somewhere for the swaged metal to go. So it would seem that lead wire would have to be smaller in diameter. So what diameter is the lead bullets you used?....or you could link us to the thread that says. (for 9mm to .40 cal)
The bullet cores for the 9->40 are from the LEE 356-125-2R mold. I did not measure them as the bullet diameter isn't real critical. The weight matters more. The bullet cores are inserted upside down as the case dimensions are smaller at the bottom of the inside of the 9mm case. Look inside of one and you can see what I am talking about. When the hollow pointing tool presses in, it swages the lead core and causes it to completely fill the inside of the cases. Here is a picture posted by BT Sniper. It is some of the 44 cal 255 grain (ww core). Again, this is not my pic, it is BT Sniper's. 
jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:47:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jonblack]
[#46]
Originally Posted By GWhis:
Corbin also makes swage dies for .22 cases to .223 bullets.....was really tempted about the time the Obama nightmare started. http://www.corbins.com/kit-224.htm Their all you need kit is $180. While that sure would be nice, your price is not accurate. Straight for the price list on Corbin's site: * KIT-224R –––––– Make free .224 bullets from fired .22 cases ––- 803.00 You may have been thinking about the jacket maker die alone, which derims the .22 cases, but does nothing else. Again, from the price list at Corbin's site: * RFJM-22R –––––– Rimfire Jacket-Maker, FREE .224 jackets. –––––– 179.00 jonblack |
|
|
LA, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:56:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By GWhis:
BTW, can't you just use lead wire instead of casting boolits first? Hey GWhis Here is some food for thought: I read about another guy who just dunked the 9mm brass into the lead pot. He said it would fill the case and anneal the brass at the same time for easier swaging. Of course I tried it. I couldn't get it to work right dunking so I started filling the cases with a ladle (not fun). It does anneal the case, but it seemed to put too much lead in the case. I did it just for fun as I have the mold to cast the cores anyway. Maybe if the cases were shortened, but that adds more work. jonblack |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:57:20 PM EDT
[#48]
This is SO cool, I am going to need to do this when I have the time .... (20 years from now when I am retired)
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 2:57:56 PM EDT
[#49]
very cool.
|
|
|
|
MS, USA
|
Posted: 8/24/2010 3:04:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Wicked.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
