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Posted: 2/12/2010 1:00:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2010 1:01:02 PM EDT by ATICSR_Christopher]
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 1:03:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 1:53:53 PM EDT
UUMMMMMMM...that sux.
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 2:13:02 PM EDT
Good to know. Also good to know that it is not the standard carbines!
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 2:18:17 PM EDT
How much more is the replacement going to weigh? Is the finish any better on the new one. Mine chips the paint if you look at it wrong. Will it look the same when installed on the rifle?
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 5:18:49 PM EDT
OK, since this applies ONLY to the GSG5/SD does this mean that the standard GSG5-carbine is in the clear????

Or is the fate of the GSG5-carbine "yet to be determined"??????????
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 6:00:03 PM EDT
Another damn delay on getting an SD conversion kit!
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 6:26:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sporttouringtech:
How much more is the replacement going to weigh?


Ditto on this. If it has to be a solid piece its going to weigh a ton!
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 7:40:53 PM EDT
And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up
Link Posted: 2/12/2010 10:20:23 PM EDT
interesting, brings up a couple of questions, wasnt it passed before importation? and what reason do they give?

just interested, ill be keeping my original SD shroud as i'm in England
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 4:16:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RedNeck2922:
And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up


You act like this is their fault instead of ATF stupidity.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 4:29:37 AM EDT
just curious, what will the replacement shroud look like?
will it be the smaller version, or something completely different?

garyz
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 4:38:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RedNeck2922:
And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up


Keep it than, enjoy prison. I think ATI has been great with their customer service.

Would be interesting to hear why the idiots at the ATF cleared it for import and then backtracked.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 5:24:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RedNeck2922:
And I am to be responsible to ship it back? I would like you to pick it up


Just call 202-927-8330 and they will send somebody out to collect it, just hide your dog first
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 6:07:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 6:29:18 AM EDT by HaveBlue83]
edited for the man.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 6:13:06 AM EDT
Is there an issue with the carbine models?
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 6:14:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 6:33:35 AM EDT by HaveBlue83]
isnt the carbine and the SD the same thing besides "girth"? i cant see why they would have changed the design without letting ATI know about it.....even thought they already changed the finish.

i am livid. not liking this at all.

it's like everyone important wants to ban the GSG or something.

i....i dunno.....makes me wanna sell the damn things for a M&P 15-22 and a Sig-522.

Link Posted: 2/13/2010 7:20:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 7:20:53 AM EDT by SETXshooter]
Does the fake can actually reduce the dB ? I know that "we must comply or else" but seriously, what is the reason behind this? Is it based on potential? Should we stop selling 2 liter colas and baby bottle nipples?

Isn't the end of the barrel even with the muzzle end of the "can"?

Wes
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 7:32:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sh00ter787:
interesting, brings up a couple of questions, wasnt it passed before importation? and what reason do they give?


No joy.....

I echo the above quote - What reason did they give for the can falling under NFA?
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 8:02:32 AM EDT
Im guessing because big brother said so......even though we have a RIGHT to know.....
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 11:09:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Coop4570:
OK, since this applies ONLY to the GSG5/SD does this mean that the standard GSG5-carbine is in the clear????

Or is the fate of the GSG5-carbine "yet to be determined"??????????


From this bit here it reads to me that the carbine is clear for now.


IMPORTANT: THE ORIGINAL SD MODEL SHROUD MUST BE RETURNED ACOMPANIED BY THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER BEFORE A REPLACEMENT SHROUD IS ISSUED. THE DIAMETER OF THE SD SHROUD IS 1-9/16”. DO NOT RETURN THE SMALLER CARBINE SHROUD.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 12:04:55 PM EDT
I'm thinking they don't like it because if you were to drill/perforate/port the barrel it would have *some* effect on the Db level.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 12:28:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mach1run:
Originally Posted By Coop4570:
OK, since this applies ONLY to the GSG5/SD does this mean that the standard GSG5-carbine is in the clear????

Or is the fate of the GSG5-carbine "yet to be determined"??????????


From this bit here it reads to me that the carbine is clear for now.


IMPORTANT: THE ORIGINAL SD MODEL SHROUD MUST BE RETURNED ACOMPANIED BY THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER BEFORE A REPLACEMENT SHROUD IS ISSUED. THE DIAMETER OF THE SD SHROUD IS 1-9/16”. DO NOT RETURN THE SMALLER CARBINE SHROUD.



Owning a GSG5-carbine, I would like to think that also but..... reading the links provided in the original thread on this subject Attention All GSG5 Carbine Owners!!!! when asked if the subject could be put to rest ATI responded...
Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
not yet

and in response to Osprey's comment ATI responded...
Originally Posted By ATICSR_Christopher:
ATF has long held that fake "hollow" suppressors won't fly. Had the mfgr stayed with the early 'solid' fake cans there wouldn't be a problem.

A letter from Tech branch is coming soon.


and you are?

ATI and the ATF are looking into this particular situation. I will have info available soon although the FTB is no longer involved with this particular situation. the official information will be released by ATI once we are told to do so by the ATF but at this time there is no other statement we can make until ATF gives the go ahead while they figure out how to handle their mistake. Just hang out guys and we'll let you know what we can when we're able to, and in the mean time don't believe everything you read.


so to me at least, the jury is still out on the issue of whether or not the standard carbine is effected by this as ATI has yet to state that it absolutely is not.

Link Posted: 2/13/2010 12:40:04 PM EDT
what a bunch of shi+. Doesn't the ATF have anything better to do than come after firearms owners who own guns that THE ATF APPROVED IN THE FIRST PLACE??

I reiterate...what a bunch of shi+

ka
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 1:16:34 PM EDT
This is what happens when do-gooders write letters to ATF asking for opinion rather than keeping their mouths shut.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 1:38:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
This is what happens when do-gooders write letters to ATF asking for opinion rather than keeping their mouths shut.

+1
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 2:07:04 PM EDT
+2. i cant see why they would investigate this shit now other than someone saying some shit.

and HOW long am i gonna be without a can? well, i guess we have to ask when the replacement will be available first.....

Link Posted: 2/13/2010 2:19:45 PM EDT
OK, so this doesn't make a lot of sense. If we remove the NFA regulated device and ship it, aren't we in further violation? If this device has suddenly become an NFA regulated item, isn't it more adviseable to destroy the device vs. shipping it? If I ship an "illegal" device via the USPS, haven't I just committed a whole entire series of additional felonies? Where is the actual ATF ruling? Do we have any kind of drop-dead date for compliance? I can't just take a silencer and ship it anywhere I'd like, if this device is now considered by legal definition a silencer––what your asking us to do is illegal. We need a whole lot more information on this issue.

I should think you would ask customers to remove and destroy the device, then supply a new one vs. returning and trying to ship an illegal device.

Link Posted: 2/13/2010 2:40:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 2:52:52 PM EDT by HaveBlue83]
^^HOLY SHIT. u r right.

now, we are screwed sideways!!!

I will wait till I get a certified letter from the ATF that can accompany the "NFA Item" back to ATI.

Link Posted: 2/13/2010 3:00:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By osprey21:
This is what happens when do-gooders write letters to ATF asking for opinion rather than keeping their mouths shut.


Link Posted: 2/13/2010 3:10:31 PM EDT
The ATF should issue expedited approved form 1's
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 3:31:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2010 3:32:26 PM EDT by WS6_Keith]

Originally Posted By cvryanm:
OK, so this doesn't make a lot of sense. If we remove the NFA regulated device and ship it, aren't we in further violation? If this device has suddenly become an NFA regulated item, isn't it more adviseable to destroy the device vs. shipping it? If I ship an "illegal" device via the USPS, haven't I just committed a whole entire series of additional felonies? Where is the actual ATF ruling? Do we have any kind of drop-dead date for compliance? I can't just take a silencer and ship it anywhere I'd like, if this device is now considered by legal definition a silencer––what your asking us to do is illegal. We need a whole lot more information on this issue.

I should think you would ask customers to remove and destroy the device, then supply a new one vs. returning and trying to ship an illegal device.



The last time the ATF reversed their ruling on something I owned, making it NFA (Akins Accelerator stock for a 10/22), I had to fill out an affidavit and mail the spring and signed affidavit to ATF directly.

At least this time you're not out a bunch of money. Focking ATF turned my $1000 stock in to a $20 paperweight with the stroke of their damn pen.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 5:29:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cvryanm:
OK, so this doesn't make a lot of sense. If we remove the NFA regulated device and ship it, aren't we in further violation? If this device has suddenly become an NFA regulated item, isn't it more adviseable to destroy the device vs. shipping it? If I ship an "illegal" device via the USPS, haven't I just committed a whole entire series of additional felonies? Where is the actual ATF ruling? Do we have any kind of drop-dead date for compliance? I can't just take a silencer and ship it anywhere I'd like, if this device is now considered by legal definition a silencer––what your asking us to do is illegal. We need a whole lot more information on this issue.

I should think you would ask customers to remove and destroy the device, then supply a new one vs. returning and trying to ship an illegal device.



If the fake can is sent in through the shop that it was bought through; would that take care of the issue of violating the NFA laws? This might be a way around a felony.
Link Posted: 2/13/2010 11:40:05 PM EDT
If the shop the weapon was purchased from is also a dealer that can legally sell silencers and other NFA items that would be a step in the right direction. In Iowa, I am not allowed to own a silencer unless I'm an approved LE or Mil user with the appropriate paperwork from the agency I work for. This still doesn't get around the fact that I don't have the appropriate ATF paperwork and am now magically in possession of a device that is banned in my state and there are maybe 1 or 2 FFLs in the whole state that deal with NFA devices.
Link Posted: 2/14/2010 7:07:29 AM EDT
Oh my god I can't take it anymore. You guys have me LMAO! I have watched this thread for the last two or three days and some of the replies are more enertaining than paying to go to the Improv. The sheer panic and paranoia is just too much. Please Please keep it up! "oh my god I am in possession of a NFA weapon" "oh my god my state isn't an NFA state" "oh my god i'm a felon if I mail it" Are you SERIOUS???? I mean I assume most folks here are adults. Are you honestly siting in your house in sheer panic thinking the ATF is going to come knocking at your door? I should forward this to Ken Houchens, he would pee his pants laughing. The NFA makes rulings every day on various stuff and most people never ever hear about it unless you read the newsletters or keep up with such stuff thru SAR or the NFATCA. Chris, thank you for posting the letter from Mr. DiChario and making it very EASY for those that actually read the letter. I already sent mine off. Seriously folks, do you honestly think that the President of ATI would send out a letter recalling the barrel shrouds if they hadn't already coordinated a soulution with the NFA Branch to rectify the problem? Shroud + Serial number = accountability. Don't be the guy that thinks "i'll just destroy, mine, throw it in a pond, hide it for a collectors item, etc" as at somepoint the ATF down the road will want to know why XXXX SD models were sold and only XXXX shrouds were returned. Don't be the guy bucking the system then you will piss off the ATF. If Ford, Chevy, Toyota, who ever, recalls your car because the brakes dont work and it can kill you do you not trust them and continue to drive your car until the NTSB sends you a letter or do you have your car fixed so you don't get killed? Please, its a simple easy process. No need for paranoia though if you think I am full of s***t thats OK by me. PLEASE keep posting some of this stuff, I'm rolling here LMAO!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/14/2010 8:28:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By chawkpilot:
Oh my god I can't take it anymore. You guys have me LMAO! I have watched this thread for the last two or three days and some of the replies are more enertaining than paying to go to the Improv. The sheer panic and paranoia is just too much. Please Please keep it up! "oh my god I am in possession of a NFA weapon" "oh my god my state isn't an NFA state" "oh my god i'm a felon if I mail it" Are you SERIOUS???? I mean I assume most folks here are adults. Are you honestly siting in your house in sheer panic thinking the ATF is going to come knocking at your door? I should forward this to Ken Houchens, he would pee his pants laughing. The NFA makes rulings every day on various stuff and most people never ever hear about it unless you read the newsletters or keep up with such stuff thru SAR or the NFATCA. Chris, thank you for posting the letter from Mr. DiChario and making it very EASY for those that actually read the letter. I already sent mine off. Seriously folks, do you honestly think that the President of ATI would send out a letter recalling the barrel shrouds if they hadn't already coordinated a soulution with the NFA Branch to rectify the problem? Shroud + Serial number = accountability. Don't be the guy that thinks "i'll just destroy, mine, throw it in a pond, hide it for a collectors item, etc" as at somepoint the ATF down the road will want to know why XXXX SD models were sold and only XXXX shrouds were returned. Don't be the guy bucking the system then you will piss off the ATF. If Ford, Chevy, Toyota, who ever, recalls your car because the brakes dont work and it can kill you do you not trust them and continue to drive your car until the NTSB sends you a letter or do you have your car fixed so you don't get killed? Please, its a simple easy process. No need for paranoia though if you think I am full of s***t thats OK by me. PLEASE keep posting some of this stuff, I'm rolling here LMAO!!!!!


X2 on that one. lol
Link Posted: 2/14/2010 8:30:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By chawkpilot:
Oh my god I can't take it anymore. You guys have me LMAO! I have watched this thread for the last two or three days and some of the replies are more enertaining than paying to go to the Improv. The sheer panic and paranoia is just too much. Please Please keep it up! "oh my god I am in possession of a NFA weapon" "oh my god my state isn't an NFA state" "oh my god i'm a felon if I mail it" Are you SERIOUS???? I mean I assume most folks here are adults. Are you honestly siting in your house in sheer panic thinking the ATF is going to come knocking at your door? I should forward this to Ken Houchens, he would pee his pants laughing. The NFA makes rulings every day on various stuff and most people never ever hear about it unless you read the newsletters or keep up with such stuff thru SAR or the NFATCA. Chris, thank you for posting the letter from Mr. DiChario and making it very EASY for those that actually read the letter. I already sent mine off. Seriously folks, do you honestly think that the President of ATI would send out a letter recalling the barrel shrouds if they hadn't already coordinated a soulution with the NFA Branch to rectify the problem? Shroud + Serial number = accountability. Don't be the guy that thinks "i'll just destroy, mine, throw it in a pond, hide it for a collectors item, etc" as at somepoint the ATF down the road will want to know why XXXX SD models were sold and only XXXX shrouds were returned. Don't be the guy bucking the system then you will piss off the ATF. If Ford, Chevy, Toyota, who ever, recalls your car because the brakes dont work and it can kill you do you not trust them and continue to drive your car until the NTSB sends you a letter or do you have your car fixed so you don't get killed? Please, its a simple easy process. No need for paranoia though if you think I am full of s***t thats OK by me. PLEASE keep posting some of this stuff, I'm rolling here LMAO!!!!!


This response is exactly why I don't post on this site very often. I did read the letter, and my opinion still stands that if this is now an NFA device simply mailing it off does not equal accountability. How about looking at my location as well to see that this is more of a pain in the ass for me than it is for you. I have to coordinate this being done for me by people who are going to want to know every little detail so they don't get into serious trouble. Rather than posting your rantings about how funny and ridiculous my posting is, why not think about the position that ATI has now put me in? I agree that simply sitting on this is unacceptable, also agree that the ATF will eventually try to ensure compliance.

I still have yet to see the actual ATF ruling or when this is to be completed.

Having a security clearance to worry about, having to take polys where I am asked questions like "have you committed a felony" and relying on this issue to be sorted out by a third party since I am in IRAQ truly sucks. Now the next time they get to that question, I'm going to have to explain this in detail and prove that I've complied, did not willfully break the law, and took action to correct the situation ASAP.

This is not a funny issue to me and I do not appreciate reading your post which is not helpful, disrepectful, and full of attitude that I didn't need to read today instead of helpful solutions with additional information.
Link Posted: 2/14/2010 10:05:42 AM EDT
OMG you are right, I shouldn't poke fun at such a serious situation as this. Gee, I never thought about my TS/SCI being in jeopardy. I am going to immediately notify OSI on Tuesday morning of this grave breech and hope and pray that the next SSBI I have I am not asked if I have owned or have known someone that has owned a GSG-5SD with a illegal barrel shroud as determined by ATF and rectified by ATI. BZ for pointing out the sarcasm and lack of humor in my post, I salute you.
Link Posted: 2/14/2010 10:23:06 AM EDT
the best part is it may not have been from a letter. In Ga. there is at least one instance of a guy stopped and held by LEO who thought he had an nfa item . The other possibility is a leo inquiry
Link Posted: 2/14/2010 10:41:18 AM EDT
On a more serious note if anyone has modified one of those Airsoft knockoff fake suppressors to fit your GSG carbine you might want to rethink that until the exact reason the ATF disliked the fat SD can is known. No big deal on an Airsoft rifle but once you put it on a real gun it may get caught in the same situation.
Link Posted: 2/14/2010 12:08:01 PM EDT
Just curious, if this is such a big deal and all why no mention of this on the ATI webpage? Why is it that the only way you can find out about what is potentially a big problem is to stumble upon the notification here and here only? If you do a web search with the words GSG-5 SD and ATF you get nothing at all about this. I am curious as to how something like this is ever going to get out to the owners of these? Looks like we will have several folks in violation of the ATF's ruling and have no idea that they are.
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 4:54:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 5:34:28 AM EDT
How are the thousands of people that do not read this forum supposed to get this information?
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 6:29:29 AM EDT
Its so funny how the SD was legal for sooooo long, then after the HK lawsuit was over ATF started talking shite. Not f-in cool.
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 6:40:50 AM EDT
Maybe it is time for me to sell my unfired GSG-5 and get the S&W MP15-22...
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 7:12:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 8:03:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2010 8:05:06 AM EDT by HaveBlue83]
chris, once again, thank you for doing all that you do and keeping us updated.

Can't believe they can just up and change something like their own ruling. very......
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 8:17:48 AM EDT
Great update Chris, thanks. Sounds like the fix is to run a small tube from end to end that actually hugs the barrel tight so to speak so there isnt that wide open "expansion chamber" (and NO don't do it yourself at home). Just a speculation but I think the ATF doesnt like the fact that the thing is so fat and it has all that room on the inside. It would be pretty easy to modify that shroud to be a real suppressor, and its not like I haven't read post on this forum and others where some basement yahoo say "hey, if I did this or that to the shroud then XXXX" I know it sucks for you guys at ATI but better a little suck now than to have some yahoo actually make a suppressor out of one of your shrouds and get caught by the ATF. The suck factor would be much higher then.
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 8:36:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2010 9:08:26 AM EDT by chawkpilot]
Originally Posted By HaveBlue83:
Can't believe they can just up and change something like their own ruling. very......


Doesnt surprise me in the least bit. I have seen it on importation of some surplus AK parts kits as well as a few years ago somebody was welding cut M-14 recievers back together. If I remember right they reversed their ruling on those as well, once a machine gun always a machine gun. Actually happens more than you might imagine and if it doesn't effect a gun that you own you probably will never hear about it. Not defending the ATF but I was an FFL for quite sometime and own a bunch of NFA weapons ant they are just doing their job. I never had a problem with any of them and have been in some weird situations not of my own doing. You just have to remember they work for the goverment and what does make sense with anything the goverment does?
Link Posted: 2/15/2010 12:21:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2010 12:23:03 PM EDT by sharkbit]
So is H&K giving a price break to the ATF now on all their purchased firearms?!?




Link Posted: 2/15/2010 12:44:12 PM EDT
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