I was watching a show on the Military channel and one of the discussions was with a US soldier in Afghanistan who was carrying a tomahawk.  He mentioned how the locals respected it because it was a blade weapon.

How practical would a tomahawk be in close combat?  Obviously most US soldiers carry a rifle, handgun, bayonet, and knife, so where does a tomahawk fit in?  Does anyone have any first hand experience with techniques...or for that matter does anyone even own any modern ones?  Overall I just found it interesting that a modern soldier was carrying what some would consider to be an "ancient" weapon.

Pics too

Very effective.

It is an ancient weapon which underwent many revisions over the centuries. What we call a 'tomahawk' nowdays was invented long before white men 'discovered' the New World. And the reason it was revised so much is that it is very effective.

http://www.rmjforge.com/Tactical%20Tomahawks.htm

New editor sucks!

"The Patriot" comes to mind.

Here's a little history for ya ––

The Vietnam Tomahawk

 








 








 








 








 











 
 
 

There was also an Army Captain that tried to convince the Army to adopt the tomahawk in place of the bayonet.
He gave a demonstration to senior officers, and they admitted that the tomahawk was superior to the bayonet, but felt that the bayonet was better for guarding prisoners, and the training time was too long.

Special Operations have combined the tomahawk with martial arts techniques to the point where they are reportedly quite effective.
The Islamics are terrified of units that carry the tomahawk, because there's someone else around that can chop off heads besides them.

The hawk is very effective for CQB and breaching.  I am currently working on the DVD for RMJ Tactical Tactical Tomahawk DVD.  We also hope to do a training camp next year.

Modern Combative Systems

the4 rmj forge are really nice, there are also lots of guys using the k5 tactical hawk

I got a little tomahawk training. You can do alot of shit with a hawk.

It's a stick with a blade and a hammer on it.
What's not to love?

+1.

I also like spikes.

Want much.    sorry about size.

I always had a Gerber sportaxe (the mid sized one) on my ruck.  Not as cool looking, but when I bought it 12ish years ago it was better than most of the tacticool looking crap that was around.  This was before quality ones were being made at reasonable prices.

The military channel had a program on that documented a confirmed kill in Afganastan by a US Soldier. It was during  a buliding clearing op. Very effictive. I carried a hawk on my ruck sometimes when I was in the Army. I like them for CQB
RLTW

Our service personnel should have these and the training to use them.

360 bucks is kind expensive, any place else sells a decent one for a little bit less?

I thought the same thing, but they are sexy.  Somebody recently recommended K5 Tactical, who sells a similar design for about $160.  Click here.

ETA:  I checked with them a few weeks ago, spikes and sheathes were in stock.  I have no experience with these, as I decided to hold off on buying one for the time being.

I am currently in Iraq on my 2nd combat tour.  I am an Mech Infantry (11B) Platoon Sergeant.  So far I have yet to see an actual tomahawk in the field.  Now thats here in Iraq, rules that apply in Iraq dont always apply to A'stan.  However, given that the typical infantryman wears and carries over 60 lbs of weapons, ammo, and equipment, stuff thats not mission essential is usually left in the platoon room or their CHU.  IMO, the hawk falls short comparred to a good knife, suitably equiped carbine, and pistol.

Anyone ever handle the GG&G Battle Hawk?

Nope... but I'm picking up one of these soon, which looks fairly similar, by Grayman:



this seems to me a little more utilitarian in design, which is what I want.

Those last 2 pics are hatchets. Not tomahawks. The long ,slender,light weight ones are tomahawks.

Tomahawk is a weapon, not a camp tool. Some can do camp shit but it's always secondary.

I'd want a tomahawk 24' to 34' with a point of balance close to the hawk head.

The GG&G Battle Hawk isn't a hatchet or a "camp tool". It may not be the long handled variety, nor of the Viet Nam era style....but a hatchet and camp tool it aint.

I waiting on a custom piece, its a multi-tool.  You can attach either a smoking bowl, hammer poll or spike.  I will probably end up getting both a straigh and curved spike

I think he is talking about the handle length, to provide more momentem.  Kinda like the MacKenzie hawk with the long handle that has a slight rearward curve to it

I think he meant inches not feet.

It cuts through schools...

I am well aware of the difference, but thanks for pointing it out.  For my purposes, the Grax has much more of a utilitarian nature.  The utilitarian aspect is primary, and weapon nature is secondary.

Schools egh?

I thought the K5 was unavailable as the owner fucked over lots of people who ordered and paid for them? Has something changed?

Well they are good for bashing skulls in creeks, ever seen the Patriot?

If you are in a close quarters fight versus a bayonet fixed rifle, I could see some benefits of a tomahawk vs a knife.

Also talking about losing control of your pistol, one of the female officers bought a small fixed blade knife she keeps on her duty belt.  Says its for if someone tries to go for the pistol she's grabbing the knife (about 2-3" curled blade) and going straight for a kidney.

I like the coolness factor, but the practicality of it is pretty thin.
If I were humping up and down the mountains of the Ghan, where weight is a big issue and I have a choice between a good fixed blade knife that has lots of utilitarian uses and a "Hawk" that has limited use , I would have to go with the knife. Knifes can dig and pry and cut and chop. They take up little space and can be placed in many different location on ones gear.  The Thawk, on the other hand would be a challenge to find a good spot for it and not get in the way.

Plus I could  see the typical Big Army CO  wigging out about one of his guys carrying a tomahawk.

Hell, they had fits when troops carried big ass pig stickers in the field.  I mean c'mon, after all what is scarier then carrying a M4 carbine and M26 fragmentation grenades??? a 7" hunting knife.....

Awesome story.  Thanks for sharing!

The last unit I was in prior to retirement was a Inf Bde and they had a standing SOP on fixed blade knives over 5" (IIRC). We all just carried leathermans,etc as they had more purpose anyhow..Opening MRE's, cutting wire ties and metal bands on ammo boxes, etc.

I never really missed carrying a big pig sticker anyhow, but it always chapped me over the thought process of not letting Joe carry a big knife, yet load him up with 60 pounds of Armor/weapon/ammo/grenades,etc, cause that way he won't hurt himself.

But on the other hand, knowing the typical 18 yr old Private, if left to his own, he will carry  the biggest baddest looking Rambo or Klingon Sci-fi knife he could buy of the internet and get himself in trouble on a Friday night in the barracks after a few drinks... So there may be a little method to the madness ...

I myself had a small fixed blade Boot knife "confiscated" by one of my SSG's back when I was a private. Told me they were not "regulation" and he would put it in the Arms room for me.... never saw that knife again...(never liked him anyhow, poor excuse for a NCO.....)

Some EOD have been using them to chop command wires.  Besides that...

Cold Steel makes excellent tomahawks.  Most are under $25-30.  Do not let the low cost fool you, they are sturdy as all get go.  They may not look as Tacticool as some of the $360 hawks, but they do what they are designed to do.

Peace time Army and war time Army are very different animals.  I was attached to a Inf Bat that had a few guys carrying large knives and were told by higher a month before going into country to get rid of them, they disappear.  They get their own FOB and 2 weeks in country 90% of the enlisted from the CSM down to the e-2's and half the officers had knives over 5 inches on their IBA's.  Even the Chaplin's assisatant had a pig sticker.  If asked by higher their SOP answer was the indigs in the AO were a blade culture and it was their part to fit in.  Which was mostly BS but they got away with it the whole tour.  On the larger bases where you have more Fobits than joes going out of the wire you may hear the no big knife line.

I am not a big knife guy but I have picked up an all metal tomahawk for my next tour later this year from RMJ tacitical (a Kestral modified with a 1 inch chisel pry tip on the head, I picked up one of the few that was an overrun for a Marine unit).  It is all of 13 inchs and 1.5 pounds, and it does not go on the IBA, there is enough junk there but in its kydex scabbard with tec-loc on my assault pack as a light breaching tool.  Taking care of hasps and padlocks on out buildings during searchs, with the pry tip wedged in a door and a butt stroke from the side it is an alternative to a large American boot, 12 gauge, or vehicle with chains for entry. The spike if you have time and the need can make firing points in cinder block walls etc..  There are better larger and bigger breaching tools but because they are larger and bigger that may not be packed.  

The other reason I got a hawk was for vehicle extraction in part U.S. forces but mostly for the locals.  The dam haji families pack the vehicles like clown cars and if crumpled up by a VBIED (car bomb) or running into a U.S. armored vehicle getting a trapped local(s) out so the medic can treat them is an issue.  Granted they will soon be evac by the locals if you can call being thrown into the pack of a POS little white pickup truck to speed off to a POS hospital being evaced.  YMMV but I saw problems during a tour and an all metal hawk with the expensive heat treatment that can cut through twisted sheet metal is better for nothing as a solution.

Caving in skulls is on the bottom of the list of the utilty of a tomahawk for me (I have praticed a bit with it and IMO its a good work out for your arms).  But I am issued fire arms to solve the problem of killing people.  But for the problems in the prevous two paragrphs it is a tool I can attach to my assualt pack that may provide some solutions.  Others millage may vary greatly.

I just bought a Cold Steel Trail Hawk for just this purpose!

A lot of military arent issued a pistol, so if youre in a position that you cant use your rifle, a hawk would make as much sense if not more than a knife based on personal preference and training.  Most units keep the bayonets locked in the arms room leaving the average soldier to make due with what they have or can afford in regards to a backup to their rifle or carbine.

edit* My personal carry is a benchmade folder, not a hawk or kabar; just trying to give a little perspective.

I had a buddy of mine carry a tomahawk in Iraq. Everyone thought he was crazy. He pulled it out a couple of times and it scared the shit out of the Iraqis. He was extremely talented with the thing too. Probably helps that the guy is native american, and has used tomahawks since he was a kid.

You can see the tomahawk on his right leg

I carried a tomahawk in Iraq, a laguna tactical from american tomahawks, and while I've seen where quite a few in the military have carried them n Iraq before, hardly anyone I knew of in our national guard infantry company had apparently ever heard of others carrying tomahawks before and thought I was sort of crazy. I assured them I wasn't the 1st.

As for tactics there are a lot of fighting tactics, while I won't consider myself schooled in tomahawk fighting I have practiced some basic offensive moves that would likely be very effective in a hand to hand fight, in my opinion because they would likely be completely unexpected by someone without any knowledge of tomahawk fighting and hard to defend against. I'd much rather use that in such a fight than a knife.
I've also practiced throwing quite a lot, a laguna tactical is an exceptional thrower, and although throwing is hard to grasp at 1st, after you finally figure it out it's a lot of fun. I can basically strike a body sized target from a good distance away fairly easily, head sized some but not as good as I'd like..
.

I used to throw hawk competatively as a kid at muzzleloader events. There was never any tactics involved, but with practice I got pretty good at throwing and "sticking" four in one target, that was for s&g, the normal challenge was to split a playing card at 15 - 25 paces.

I don't doubt they're practical in modern combat.

barkley-addict



See, theres the thing, the Guard on a whole has much more latitude towards stuff like that then the regular Army.. (In My Experience in both organizations) One of my CO's was one of my very first 2nd Lt's and If would have ever deployed  with him in charge... I could have taken a pretty much anything...

And this principle varies from unit to unit and from RA to NG... It's kinda like TSA security checkpoints... a bag that gets checked over in Dallas  may not get the same scrutiny as one in Detroit and it varies day to day...

Some NG are just the opposite, but on the average, they are a tad bit loser on the regs...

That's odd how they have different attitudes about something like a tomahawk, it seems to me that short of a firearm they wouldn't care what type of personal weapon, especially an edged weapon, a solider carries, especially in a combat zone. But I know some units are like that. I can't even recall thinking twice about having it on the way over but I arrived in theater about 2 weeks after the unit itself, I was a late mob and was with a warrior platoon at camp shelby, so maybe that was the reason it wasn't ever a factor going in. The only time it was questioned was on the way out at aly asalien or however you spell it, going through customs, the inspector thought it was some sort of war trophey and seemed confused holding it and I had to show him the american tomahawks logo on the handle and show him it was a tool made in america that I had had with me all the time, he made me wrap the blade all up with tape for some reason then let me go.
I bought a knife while over there after I 1st got there and it arrived from knifeworks right to my platoon office in a box so I wonder if it would be easier with some units to simply buy a tomahawk oline and have it shipped like so if taking it over was any concern.

I've read about the cards to, I doubt I could do that aside from a lucky throw here and there at this point, but I haven't been able to throw much in a while. I seem to stick the spiked end as much as the other, is that a result of throwing wrong or is that common?

I carried a cold steel vietnam hawk when I was in the army.(1976-1997) It was on my ruck. Used it for all kinds of stuff. I replaced the handle and put a para cord wrap on it. I still have it and throw once in a while. I have several other cold steel hawks that I use at black power events as well. A good tool.
RLTW

Just be consistent with your throws at a certain distance then start experimenting with where your holding it, move your hand a couple inches up the handle... If you cant get it that way throw with the spike facing front.