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Posted: 4/24/2012 3:07:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2012 9:36:40 PM EDT by HBARLeatherneck]
I ordered 300 rounds of ball 647gn ammunition, a month or so back. I then ordered another 300 this month. This time 150 API and 150 APIT. I ordered the ammo from Charles Gossett at Survivalops.com. TMI 50 BMG, http://tmi50bmg.com/ is the manufacturer. The ball was $1.85 per round. not including shipping. The APIT was $2.30 per round. The API was $2.12 per round.

All the brass is LC. Mostly 09 headstamp. Brass is clean and relatively untarnished. Not as clean as us hand loaders obsess about. But, clean and nice. The ball had no pull marks. it was advertised as new projectiles. I cant be sure, but they look good. The API had no pull marks to speak of. The APIT did have pull marks. Not bad, but dont count on moa accuracy.

I havent fired very many yet, so I cant give an accuracy report. And what I did fire was only ball. Our state is allready a tinder box. And I wont be shooting any of the other ammo, until snow covers the ground again.

I did pull apart some of the Ball ammo. I weighed each charge and came up with 222 grain in each. The spread was with a low of 221.8 and a max of 222.2

Shipping was on par price wise with most online ammunition retailers. He does list prices as cash price, and if you pay with credit card, you pay more. This is ridiculous to me, as its an online store and you will inevitably be using a credit card. I would just build it into the price, if thats the case. For local purchases I understand, but not online.

I think, Survivalops doesnt actually stock any ammunition. Its just dropped shipped from the Manufacturer. You could order directly from TMI but their prices listed are higher than was Survivalops sells them for.

I did some digging and found most retailers who sell 50 bmg out of the Oregon area, use the TMI ammo. And most of them had higher prices listed than survivalops. they seemed to be the lowest on most of the 50bmg.

Prices have increased on the ball, since I bought mine. But, its still reasonable. I hope this helps someone.

I would order from them again.

And the ammunition comes 150 rounds to an ammo can. The first two cans were nice and refinished. The second two cans were dented and not refinished. But, hey, I was buying ammo, not cans.



Link Posted: 4/25/2012 2:38:20 PM EDT
Charles is a top notch guy.

I ordered 150 rounds a while back off of him and it was supposed to be new LC Brass. Somehow, there was a mixup and I received an order with what seemed to be (clean) old surplus. I emailed Charles asking him what exactly I received and he explained that my order and one other had somehow gotten mixed up. He sent me ANOTHER 150 rounds and told me to keep the first one because of the mixup.

All I can say, is GOOD LUCK finding someone out there that is that dedicated to customer service. NO ONE does something like this.

If he is selling it, I am buying it from him before anyone else. I pulled a few and scaled them and found similar results to HBARLeatherneck.

I have since, recommended SurvivalOps.com to several of my buddies who needed .50 BMG "plinking" ammo on quality reloadable brass.



Joe
Link Posted: 5/6/2012 12:36:22 PM EDT
Just reading your review and that is super. There is so much lacking in the customer service department since the economic downturn. The big companies do whatever they want and there is nothing that can be done about it. It is good to see that some places have not lost customer service. When I get my 50bmg in the coming months I intend to buy some ammo from him. I want to eventually load my own but it would be nice to be able to grab some loaded api ammo without the hastle. Is there a minimum order do you know? I will not be buying 300 rounds in my first outing.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:15:53 PM EDT
HBAR,

Thanks for your bringing up Survivalops! I called and spoke directly to Charles who is an incredibly nice fellow.

My wants were a mix of ball and API.No problem!

Charles explained how the ammo was manufactured and the components all being new LC brass, etc.

I felt like I was talking to a good friend I'd known for years.

In short, I felt really good doing business with Charles and Survivalops.

Enough to place my first order of 150...100/ball and 50/API

I did send a USPS MO to save on the CC fees since I saved more that way and I'm just plain CHEAP!
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:18:15 PM EDT
usually APIT is the cheapest, because most ranges don't allow it.

Either way, that's not a bad price.
Link Posted: 5/16/2012 6:14:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2012 12:06:55 PM EDT by Gossett68]
Hey guys,

Thanks for the positive reviews guys! If anyone has any direct questions about the .50 cal feel free to ask!
Link Posted: 6/5/2012 10:31:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2012 10:33:43 PM EDT by WhitewaterRafter]
Well fellows. I just recieved my order from Survivalops and I have to say this ammo looks incredible!

I have not had a chance to shoot any yet but the rounds came looking perfect!

And yes my ammo can looks brand new (I know I was buying ammo too, not a can but it sure is nice to recieve a nice ammo can with the rounds.)

Thanks to Charles for taking the time to keep me informed of my delivery tracking and for providing high quality ammo at a reasonable price.

Before learning of HBARS post I wasn't sure if I'd find an affordable quality source of ammo for my shooting my AR50.

Recieved Ball and API mixed and can't wait to get to the range!

Thanks again to HBAR and Charles at Survivalops!

Edited to add: I don't have any way to post pics but it looks just like HBARS!
Link Posted: 6/6/2012 10:14:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gossett68:
Hey guys,

Thanks for the positive reviews guys! If anyone has any direct questions about the .50 cal feel free to ask!




Welcome to the site!!!


I'll be ordering some soon-any discounts/sales in the works?



Link Posted: 6/9/2012 8:07:50 PM EDT
How are you guys ordering. I tried to order some API and attempted to calculate shipping. However, it says that shipping is not available to my area. I dont live in CA or any other state where the 50 is illegal, what gives.
Link Posted: 6/10/2012 9:14:09 AM EDT
just call him. or send an email with your zipcode and ask how much.
Link Posted: 6/10/2012 10:31:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2012 10:39:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
One reason I like buying out of state is that I don't have to pay sales tax and CA gets nothing and the way they waste money, that's a good thing.



Well said but not only CA!
Link Posted: 6/10/2012 11:06:33 AM EDT
I would like to buy some but $50 for shipping and a $10 CC fee is a little ridiculous.

Link Posted: 6/10/2012 12:14:09 PM EDT
I saw the insane cc fee on SurvivalOps.com as well. Check with your card company too it is illegal in some states to charge a cc fee. Most banks and card companies will not allow it. Mastercard has recently changed their policy to allow it If you card company or bank does not allow it you can call your issuer and they will do a charge back. Then the merchant has to go through and justify what they sold and for how much. If there is a CC fee on there they ultimatly will not get that amount. I hate to say to do that but it is the only way to get someone to stop charging those fees. It is a bad feeling to get a charge back notice on a $500 transaction not knowing if you are going to get the money for violating merchant agreements. I personally dont do business with those companies but if they slip it in I call the bank.

I was browsing a few other sites that seem reasonable last night. I will probably buy a lot of about 40 to start with and if I like them get some more. Eventually, I want to roll my own with a press and surplus supplies.
Link Posted: 6/12/2012 1:19:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Ugh... 50 BMG is NOT illegal in CA, rifles chambered in 50 BMG have been banned. Yes, API, APIT and other fun ammo is illegal all other types are legal to own. I reload my own and refuse to do business with companies that won't ship to CA. It only takes a minute of reading to know what can or can't be shipped here, put your political issues some place else and make some money. People in CA spend more on gun stuff then most any other state, why would you give up that kind of business?

I usually chalk it up to businesses being to lazy or scared of CA State coming after them. If its legal your safe, if you don't know ask, just remember that its another poke in their eye when you sell to us. One reason I like buying out of state is that I don't have to pay sales tax and CA gets nothing and the way they waste money, that's a good thing.



Actually, just the energy rounds are not allowed in the state of Cali. You can ship regular steel core ( Do it all the time ). And if someone signs a statement of intended use I can ship energy rounds into cali as well. State can only do so much to stop interstate commerce.

To address the CC fee, Most people just add that to the cost of the item. I openly show it to let customers know what they are paying for. Feels like the right thing to do.

And on another note, the site won't allow more than 150 pounds total to be addressed in the shopping cart. It's a glitch that I can't seem to be fixed. So if anyone tries to order a few cans just give me a ring. It's better for the larger orders because I will offer a discount and we can do a trucking quote. The shipping rates are getting out of hand with the price increase of gas.

Thanks,
Charles
Link Posted: 6/13/2012 5:07:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2012 8:32:56 PM EDT by JohnC76]
Thanks for this post! It beats the best price I seen on another site, so I ordered 150rds of API from him!
Link Posted: 6/13/2012 11:33:43 PM EDT
OR.

If anyone has extensive web development skills..I could definatly use someone to help with the 150 pound limit on my site.

Link Posted: 6/14/2012 1:43:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gossett68:
OR.

If anyone has extensive web development skills..I coudefiantlytly use someone to help with the 150 pound limit on my site.



Hmm, just tested the cart, seems three 150rd cans is the limit (150lbs).

Do you know what platform or programming language the cart uses? My wife is in IT and maybe I can ask if she can help you.



Link Posted: 6/23/2012 1:35:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2012 2:41:01 AM EDT by JohnC76]
Got my fingers crossed the 150rds of API arrives early next week as me and my Dad are on vacation and we're looking to sight in the AR50! It should be fun shooting the 50 BMG for the first time!

Link Posted: 6/27/2012 6:06:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JohnC76:
Got my fingers crossed the 150rds of API arrives early next week as me and my Dad are on vacation and we're looking to sight in the AR50! It should be fun shooting the 50 BMG for the first time!



We had a few 5k orders come in a couple of weeks ago. We are running just a little behind...People are starting to see the quality and jumping on it like candy...Which is a good think.

Process takes a bit. Every single brass is inspected to the FULLEST. Rezizing the brass to match grade ( That goes fairly quickly ) and we don't trust machines for loading so every round is hand loaded...thats why the tolerences are extrordiarily accurate.

But we do hammer out a buttload of rounds daily! We're trying.

I think most my current orders are shipped out and on the way.

Charles
Link Posted: 6/28/2012 10:09:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gossett68:
Actually, just the energy rounds are not allowed in the state of Cali. You can ship regular steel core ( Do it all the time ). And if someone signs a statement of intended use I can ship energy rounds into cali as well. State can only do so much to stop interstate commerce.

Thanks,
Charles


I live in Kalifornia and due to the ban on .50 BMG rifles - all I can legally own is an upper that I can pin onto an AR-15 for when I go shooting in Nevada.

I'll be checking in with you on what's needed to legally order API as it's about the least expensive and works great for "rock busting". Since I cannot even shoot ANY .50 BMG ammo in CA, there should be no problem - so long as there's no issues with actual possession.

Link Posted: 6/29/2012 3:32:02 AM EDT
Statement of intended use should cover you on actual possession on the ammo. Like I said, interstate commerce. I can help you with that for sure. California is tricky...But send fireworks in there all the time. All depends on intent.

Ammo is ammo...There is no special UN number for .22 rounds or .50 caliber rounds. No real storage laws on them either. So with the proper paperwork ( which is not hard at all ) I can get you some rounds. I don't have a problem shipping into California, and if they try to mess me with it I'll shove my lawyer so far up their ass there head will spin.

Don't think of it as breaking the rules, you'd just be jumping through the hoops to posses the ammo legally.

I could even do the same with energy rounds ( API, APIT etc ) just as long as your not using them in a criminal matter of course.


Thanks,
Charles Gossett
Survivalops.com


Link Posted: 6/29/2012 3:34:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 2:27:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2012 2:27:34 PM EDT by JohnC76]
Got my 150rds of API today.

Looks nice sitting in that ammo can!

Thanks to the OP for the info on this dealer and thanks to Charles for all the help. When I'm ready for more, I'll look you up again.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 12:48:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 12:54:01 AM EDT by Gossett68]
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
If you live in CA you can't have API, APIT... as its illegal in the state. You can have it shipped to a friends house out of state and shoot it there.


You can have it shipped to California...As long as there is a Statement of Intended use behind the purchase. California can make all the laws in the world...But Interstate Commerce trumps it...Period.

If anyone is interested I can get more in depth with HOW it's legal, and why California has to succumb to specific Commerce laws.

Bear in mind. I can't just ship energy rounds into California on a whim to anyone. But, if you plan on using the rounds in a lawful manner ( I.E.) your taking the outside the state to use...Then your fine. But like I said. Individuals need to to sign a intended use interstate commerce form.

Kinda like Aeriel fireworks..I can ship them into Cali alll day long via Fed-Ex...As long as the appropopriate forms are signed.

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 12:51:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 12:53:16 AM EDT by Gossett68]
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Got my 150rds of API today.

Looks nice sitting in that ammo can!

Thanks to the OP for the info on this dealer and thanks to Charles for all the help. When I'm ready for more, I'll look you up again.


Thanks for being Patient. We are into the .50 for the long haul and sometimes we get large orders that set us back a few days. But I am very open with communicating with my customers...That and I do enjoy our phone conversations with you guys...You guys are awesome =)

Charles Gossett
Survivalops.com

Link Posted: 7/9/2012 6:27:03 PM EDT
I placed an order with Survivalops on the 29th, No response to email for tracking info and no one answers the phone.
Link Posted: 7/9/2012 8:28:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fullbore:
I placed an order with Survivalops on the 29th, No response to email for tracking info and no one answers the phone.


They don't normally email you a tracking number (based off my order with them). But if you email or call them, they'll eventually send it.

Just relax and before you know it you'll have ammo at your door.



Link Posted: 7/9/2012 9:09:41 PM EDT
I actually just got off the phone with them, Charles returned my call and said my order shipped out and should be here soon
Link Posted: 7/10/2012 7:43:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2012 9:10:18 PM EDT by Fullbore]
Still no tracking.
Link Posted: 7/11/2012 5:47:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fullbore:
Lip service only...No Package and still No tracking. One more company to add to the "Avoid" list!


I normally don't like to do this.

But this particular customer ordered on the 27th, the website says 1-3 days shipping on ammo and if it's longer I usually notify the customer it may take a few extra days. Ever shell we send out is hand expected to the fullest, and most brass that people would use...We toss...So this does take time.

First, there was the 4th of july, that slowed down the shipping....Not to mention I could not get a hold of my shipper for his tracking number because he was with his family for the holiday.

I then sent him a e-mail saying it would show up either Monday or Tuesday ( Not taking account the holidays, I forgot...My bad ).

So I get a phone message from him saying I am trying to rip him off and he's filing a chargeback...I try to call back...No reply.

I call Scott, get the tracking information ( Your gonna love this )
SHIPPED ON JULY 3
TRACKING NUMBER
1Z104AW00345415560

It's being delivered Tomorrow....I'm sorry...But I can't control the days UPS and FED-EX close down for the holidays...I just can't do it.

So he sends me a e-mail saying he's already made the chargeback...So now I am out the cost of the ammo, shipping and the fee's that come with a chargeback. The customer did not even offer me a chance to give him a refund ( Which anyone in this business knows that chargebacks add additional fee's. I try to sell this .50 as cheap as possible, I am looking at volume, not being greedy here...So the chargeback fee's really hurt )

So the customer is upset at ME for UPS getting his ammo to him a day late.

And the very last e-mail I sent him I told him to keep some of the ammo ( At this point he can keep it all, I don't want to be associated with this kind of negative energy ) I just want this customer to go out and play with the rounds and have a smile on his face playing with his .50.

I can carbon copy all the e-mails and post them up if he tries to deny any of this. I don't appreciate being slandered for such a trivial issue over a day late on shipping. I don't feel I was unreasonable at all. The only thing I told the customer when gave him a ETA was the ammo would probably show up Monday/Tuesday....And it's going to make it there Today....Wednsday.

I'm sorry, I can;t control the holidays....

He was even threatening to post about it on ARF.com hours before I got settled in and got his tracking number.


???? I don't get it...I wish I did.


Link Posted: 7/11/2012 6:13:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 7:34:08 PM EDT by sniper1target]
guess i'm gonna get my ammo from you...
Excellent CS
Link Posted: 7/11/2012 10:40:36 AM EDT
There's that all ellusive tracking# I've been looking for! I should have been a dentist! Thanks, Charles.
Link Posted: 7/11/2012 9:07:18 PM EDT
Ammo received today and looks very nice! I hope to do some shooting very soon.
Link Posted: 7/11/2012 10:58:57 PM EDT
How many rounds did you get and what type? I'd like a range report!
Link Posted: 7/12/2012 9:34:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fullbore:
Ammo received today and looks very nice! I hope to do some shooting very soon.



I hope you are going to make things right with him.

Link Posted: 7/13/2012 3:45:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2012 3:50:56 PM EDT by Fullbore]
Originally Posted By carguym14:
Originally Posted By Fullbore:
Ammo received today and looks very nice! I hope to do some shooting very soon.



I hope you are going to make things right with him.



Yes, Absolutely. We spoke and cleared up everything. Charles had a very legitimate explanation and he was unable to reach his shipper. I plan to purchase again and hopefully get to the range today after work if the rain holds off!
Link Posted: 7/13/2012 3:47:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JohnC76:
How many rounds did you get and what type? I'd like a range report!


40 rounds of API. I'll let you know...
Link Posted: 7/13/2012 3:56:07 PM EDT
Just FYI the Survivalops site is getting an overhaul with improvements. It looks like they are taking CS seriously and want to compete in the market.
Link Posted: 7/13/2012 10:24:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2012 7:13:38 PM EDT by Fullbore]
I only had a few minutes before the rain started but I was able to get of 10 rounds at 300 yards. Accuracy was acceptable, similar to PMC and XM33 but I was unable to set up the Chrony. I did have a problem with one round that did not want to chamber and go fully into battery. After several attempts, I noticed there was a tiny burr on the case head making a tiny protrusion by the primer. I'm not sure if this would matter but the round looks good otherwise.



Edit: I was able to remove the burr with my nail. I recently discovered that the case length was about 1-2mm too long. Four rounds were affected and will be replaced by Survivalops.
Link Posted: 7/13/2012 10:47:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fullbore:
I only had a few minutes before the rain started but I was able to get of 10 rounds at 300 yards. Accuracy was acceptable, similar to PMC and XM33 but I was unable to set up the Chrony. I did have a problem with one round that did not want to chamber and go fully into battery. After several attempts, I noticed there was a tiny burr on the case head making a tiny protrusion by the primer. I'm not sure if this would matter but the round looks good otherwise.


Can you measure the shot-group or get a picture of it?



Link Posted: 7/13/2012 10:57:05 PM EDT
The group was 6 to 7 inches.
Link Posted: 7/20/2012 10:02:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fullbore:
I only had a few minutes before the rain started but I was able to get of 10 rounds at 300 yards. Accuracy was acceptable, similar to PMC and XM33 but I was unable to set up the Chrony. I did have a problem with one round that did not want to chamber and go fully into battery. After several attempts, I noticed there was a tiny burr on the case head making a tiny protrusion by the primer. I'm not sure if this would matter but the round looks good otherwise.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/poohbear385/100_6552.jpg

Edit: I was able to remove the burr with my nail.


I would like to say that our quality control is 99.9% on our ammo, we are IMMACULATE on inspection. But sometimes during the resising process things get missed.

I can replace that round if you would like, free of charge. Shoot me a e-mail: Support@survivalops.com

Btw...Revamping the site. Should be up and running soon!

Thanks guys!

Charles.
Link Posted: 7/25/2012 2:55:18 PM EDT
Looks like the site is stil under maintenance and shipping went up as well...$40 for 40rnds, Ouch!
Link Posted: 7/28/2012 7:09:36 PM EDT
I spoke with Charles earlier this week and he is replacing 4 rounds that were out of spec(about 1mm too long in the case). I also was advised the the rounds are "match" in the sense that they will fit a match chamber. My accuracy with the API is an average of about 4MOA or about 12" at 300yds.
Link Posted: 7/31/2012 6:25:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Fullbore:
I spoke with Charles earlier this week and he is replacing 4 rounds that were out of spec(about 1mm too long in the case). I also was advised the the rounds are "match" in the sense that they will fit a match chamber. My accuracy with the API is an average of about 4MOA or about 12" at 300yds.



What kind of 50cal are you shooting this out of and what is your setup, i.e., bipod, rest, etc?

Link Posted: 7/31/2012 8:08:59 PM EDT
Obviously this is from a bench, shooting 300yds. It's a bolt action 30" barrel, with 16x Super Sniper scope.

Originally Posted By JohnC76:
Originally Posted By Fullbore:
I spoke with Charles earlier this week and he is replacing 4 rounds that were out of spec(about 1mm too long in the case). I also was advised the the rounds are "match" in the sense that they will fit a match chamber. My accuracy with the API is an average of about 4MOA or about 12" at 300yds.



What kind of 50cal are you shooting this out of and what is your setup, i.e., bipod, rest, etc?



Link Posted: 7/31/2012 8:15:45 PM EDT
My point is a "match" round should be able to provide 1 moa as long as I do my part. 3 to 4 moa is a substantial difference.

Originally Posted By JohnC76:
Originally Posted By Fullbore:
I spoke with Charles earlier this week and he is replacing 4 rounds that were out of spec(about 1mm too long in the case). I also was advised the the rounds are "match" in the sense that they will fit a match chamber. My accuracy with the API is an average of about 4MOA or about 12" at 300yds.



What kind of 50cal are you shooting this out of and what is your setup, i.e., bipod, rest, etc?



Link Posted: 7/31/2012 8:38:06 PM EDT
What set-up are you using and what kind of accuracy have you seen?

Originally Posted By JohnC76:
Thanks for this post! It beats the best price I seen on another site, so I ordered 150rds of API from him!


Link Posted: 8/1/2012 8:33:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2012 8:34:38 AM EDT by OldmanFCSA]
Typically a Standard chamber has a 0.562 neck ID.
Typically a Match chamber has a 0.554 neck ID.

Typically a LC case has a neck wall thickness of 0.022" to 0.025"

Thus, 0.022 + 0.022 + 0.510 = 0.554 which is too tight for a match chamber - you need at minimum 0.002" clearance.
Thus, 0.025 + 0.025 + 0.510 = 0.560 which is correct fit for a Standard "mil-spec" chamber.

I have found some ammo with neck thicknesses at 0.019 and very little variation. Loaded round OD is 0.548" which is still loose in any match chamber. I use solid brass bore-riders with projectile centered in throat of chamber, supporting case on centerline, which I work to hold as close as 0.002" max runout of loaded round. I am now using it as my Match brass in my State Arms rifle. It requires no neck turning and is consistent in wall thickness all the way down to base. I did have to ream the flash hole from 2mm out to 0.140" using my K&M flash hole uniformer and chamfers hole too. Primer pocket uniforming required minimal reaming. I was surprised as it was French brass. I do anneal every firing to add life to the cases.

My loadings have varied from 235 grains of VV20N29 to 250 grains of Reloder50 under a 800 grain Lehigh brass solid.
5-shot groups from under 5 inches to 72" with two shots off target, with normal groups in 11-14" range. My accuracy is limited due to medical reasons, BUT I HAVE FUN. FCSA Matches are always shot at 1000 yards.
Link Posted: 8/1/2012 8:39:35 PM EDT
What did you order?

Originally Posted By sniper1target:
guess i'm gonna get my ammo from you...
Excellent CS


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