I have just gotten my Form 1 stamp. I would like to have more than one short upper. Can I legally have more than one if I have a legally registered lower?

Yes.  As long as you keep the original upper for it with the registered barrel length.

I was of the impression that you did not have to keep the original registered barrel length upper because it's not a permanent change.  Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong though.


To caveat the OP's question...what about a registered SBR lower with multiple SBR  uppers and then a regular non-NFA AR-15 in the safe as well?

CMS

dude really?





Yes, but....





Do you have other ARs???



Yes:––––> They must have 16" uppers on them, or be pistols.



No:––––> You are G2G..
 

No, you don't have to keep the original upper or barrel length.  I keep seeing this response, it's becoming a virus!

NFA Branch cannot and does not require notification of physical changes to the registered NFA firearm.  It's beyond their regulatory authority.  They politely request that you notify them of permanent changes.

Similarly, there is absolutely no requirement to maintain the original configuration. The Form 1 specifies the configuration it will be born with, that's all. It's configuration thereafter is also beyond their regulatory authority. Once it's been built per the Form 1, you are free to change all physical characteristics of the firearm at will provided the change is not inter-classification; i.e. you cannot make changes that would reclassify the firearm as an MG, SBS, DD, etc.

And selling does not constitute a permanent change as it pertains to voluntary ATF notification of changes. "Permanent"  means the the same here as it does in other aspects of NFA; a modification done to the firearm itself that is either irreversible or very difficult  to reverse due to complexity of work, i.e. cutting a barrel or reaming a chamber to change calibers.  Modular firearms, like the AR, really don't meet this standard and NFA Branch assumes frequent configuration changes because of it.  They fully understand the registry info is unreliable for AR and similar weapon types.  Selling, trading, etc of the original upper or barrel here is not considered a permanent modification.  Such a thing is whimsical in nature and no more permanent than the next good deal.  

You are correct in your impression.

Your caveat:  Regarding the perceived Constructive Possession conflict, your registered SBR is the legal path for possession and use of any number of short barreled uppers in your possession. A pistol AR would do the same thing.

So  by you mean it ok to have spare short uppers and spare lowers sitting next to each other and no one with a badge might think this is constructive content.
 

From what I'm reading here and have read elsewhere, (And I am NOT an NFA guru), you are fine to own:

A legally registered SBR with multiple upper receivers of variying lengths
Complete AR15 rifles or pistols
Keep all of them in the same safe with no legal issues.

My understanding is that your NFA form that was approved by the ATF stating that the SBR had a barrel of less than 16 inches. If you stated that you were manufacturing an SBR with a 14.5 inch barrel, you may only have a short barrel of 14.5 inches, or use uppers with barrels of 16 inches or longer in length as that is what you specified on the application/form that the ATF approved you for.

My understand is also that if you have a registered SBR and multiple SBR uppers, you do NOT want to have any "spare" lower receivers that are not pistol AR's otherwise you may fall under the "constructive intent" BS.

Again, I'm not an NFA guru and this is my understanding based on reading things here on the board and elsewhere.

But as I understand it:

SBR that was approved as "Less than 16 inches in length" and multple SBR uppers of varying lengths
Additional complete AR15 rifles that are not registered SBR's
And/Or
Additional AR15 Pistol lowers, (not required to be "complete" pistols)

All in the same safe, is no problem and does not run afoul of the "constructive possesion" crap.

However,
A registered SBR that was approved with a barrel length of "Less than 16 inches" and multiple SBR uppers of varying lengths
And
A non SBR rifle lower without an accompying 16 inch barreled upper, (or longer), then you fall under the "Constructive Possession" foolishness.

Hope that makes sense.

If you have a pistol AR or a registered SBR, you can do just that, yes.

And the legal term you are referring to is "Constructive Possession"...

Your understanding is incorrect. Most of what you posted above is not accurate.

An SBR is any rifle with an OAL of less than 26" or a barrel length less than 16".  There is no sub-dividing SBR into categories of barrel length below 16", as you suggest.  It does not matter what the specific barrel length is, only that it is less than 16". In other words, if your SBR is registered, than it is still a registered SBR at all barrel length less than 16". There is no limitation to barrel length.

When you apply to make an SBR via a Form 1, you are including the barrel length and caliber you intend to make it with, that's all.  What you do after the initial creation of the SBR is beyond the scope of the Form 1.  Once you have a registered SBR, there is nothing preventing you from changing barrel lengths or calibers at will with no further notification necessary to that endeavor.

The idea that you are held to the specific configuration you list on the Form 1 is simply wrong.  NFA Branch used to allow multiple lengths and calibers to be listed on the Form 1, but correctly stopped this practice and will usually reject the application if it is not specific.  This is not to limit the applicant, but to hold true to the context of the Form 1.  Barring some very unique design, a rifle may generally only be created with a single barrel length and caliber, meaning the first time you assemble the complete rifle, it will have a single barrel length and caliber.  That's what you are defining on the Form 1.  Whatever changes you make to the SBR after that initial assembly are completely yours to make.  NFA Branch requests that you notify them when a change is permanent, but this is merely a request and is not required.

Homeinvader,
As I stated, I'm not an NFA guru. What I posted above regarding the form 1 describing the barrel length is from Patrick Sweeney's books on the AR15, Specifically, Volumes 1 &2.

Since the first book was written and published during the AWB, and the second was written and published afterwards, some things could very well have changed.
As far as most of what I posted being inaccurate, based on your reply, it appears that you were only referring to my statements regarding the Form 1 barrel length.

Since I dont currently own any SBR's and am trying to learn about the paperwork and documentation necessary, could you please post where NFA Branch has stated what you're posting?

Thanks.

Read the NFA Handbook published by ATF.  It covers almost everything, though there are some points you'll just learn along the way.

Regarding what you read from Patrick Sweeney:  While there was a time until about 2 years ago that NFA Branch was accepting language like "multi" or "various" for barrel length, OAL and caliber on the Form 1, there was never a time where you were required  to keep and maintain the specific barrel length or caliber you noted on the Form 1.  If that's what he stated, then he is simply wrong and has done a huge disservice by publishing such misinformation.

If you take a step back and understand what the Form 1 is for, it becomes quite clear and follows common sense.  You are merely applying to make an SBR.  You are not applying to use the SBR into the distant future, which would be the case if you were required to maintain a configuration or list all the possible configurations you might want to use. Such a thing is beyond the ATF's suthority.

Why the googly?  He's right.

He's not right.

SCOTUS in US V. Thompson/Center Arms Co affirmed the concept of Constructive Possession and established that a a pathway to legality must not be present for "Constructive Possession" to apply.  In this case, that pathway can be in the form of an AR pistol, registered SBR or registered machine gun.  Any of these would establish that path for the legal possession or any and all short barrels while simultaneously in possession of a compatible Title I rifle.  It is not necessary to build each upper to establish compliance, the spare uppers are accessory barrels/spare parts legally associated with and protected by the registered SBR.

In a nut shell, someone with an AR pistol, registered SBR or registered MG does not have any Constructive Possession vulnerability and may have any number of spare short uppers.

Thank you for that information. I really do appreciate it.
Is the NFA handbook available to download from the ATF's website, or is there some other place I need to go to get a copy?

No disrespect intended, nor am I trying to derail this thread and information in it, but you do understand why the red portion of your quote while correct, has not stopped the ATF from reversing previously held rulings by themselves and the tech branch to something completely different and now 180 degrees away from previously rulings.

Regardless, thank you for the information.

Good to know. Is this also covered in the NFA handbook?

My concern is someone on the scene making a decision based on interpretation of ATF regulations/rules and current laws that blows up in my face. If its covered in a book that I can have a copy of, published by the ATF, I, (personally) would feel ALOT better with having and SBR and other SBR uppers without owning an AR pistol.

Constructive Possession is not addressed in the NFA Handbook. This is case law, not regulation.

If you read the actual SCOTUS decision carefully, you'll understand the boundaries.

I understood you citing the case law, just wasnt sure if there was a portion of NFA handbook that covered that as well.

I will read up on the SCOTUS ruling.

Again, thanks for the information.

It's en vogue for people to think ATF is unstable or unreliable when it pertains to opinions, but true "rulings" are not changed very often.  If they publish a ruling, it has been vetted by a team of lawyers and  staff and carefully considered well before you read it.  

If you are referring to letters of determination, this is another thing altogether. Only in the age of internet forums has this really become an issue since letters of determination are actually considered private correspondence, not published opinion. Someone receives a response from Tech Branch and  takes it upon themselves to "publish" it by posting on the internet, others think this is ATF's official position on the subject and that it's okay to act on that information too.  The reality is letters are frequently incorrect in fact and opinions here are subject to change as well, and for this reason, these are not meant for the public consumption nor do they offer any legal protection to anyone other than the recipient.  If you acted on someone else's letter, which turned out to be wrong, you would be held liable for your actions whereas the recipient would in all likelihood walk away legally unscathed.  Someone else's letter would  likely not even be permissible as defense evidence in your trial since it offers a very incomplete snapshot of the conversation. Since ATF did not send you the incorrect letter, they could not have sent you a clarification letter or follow-up either. You were not privy to the entire conversation, so you may have missed key clarification in other correspondence. It would be your own negligence to act on someone else's correspondence.

The variation in letters on similar subjects is evidence that there is divergent opinion and knowledge even among ATF staffers, and none if it should be taken as official position.

a little late to answer but i have 4 uppers in differnt calibers (9mm,.223,762x25,and .22)for my sbr...i electric penned the sbr # on all 4 to show my INTENT that they are to be used with a specific sbr lower
 just my personal folley