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Posted: 7/2/2016 8:24:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2016 9:45:00 PM EDT by AZ_SBR]
Plate carrier is a Shellback Tactical Banshee Elite 2.0. Front lower panel has 6 columns X 3 double-spaced rows of Molle

Mag pouch is the Esstac M4 KYWI Triple Mag Pouch and has 6 columns X 5 rows of Molle on the back

Malice clips are the Tactical Taylor "Long" and were in the drop-down menu to add on with the purchase of the mag pouch on SKD's website.

The challenge is that the Malice Clips appear to be one row too long. It's been a while since I've installed Malice Clips, but I seem to recall the clasp portion was hidden behind said pouch. I really don't want all six clasps hanging out the bottom, but maybe I'm doing something wrong here.

On the Esstac website, they offer "WTF straps" with the purchase of the same triple mag pouch, which I'm assuming are Whiskey Two Four straps. I'm not sure if these are one notch shorter in length, but if they are, then apparently I need to get those.



Test fit:

Link Posted: 7/2/2016 9:06:09 PM EDT
Dude......you're using a fuck ton of malice clips. You could nix like two of those and be fine.



Anyways, lots of companies use a shorter clip that are more aesthetically pleasing or due to the size of the pouch but result in having as having a lump behind the pouch ect. If you want you can flip the clip upside down, and it will be hidden behind a mag. I don't know if that would be "lame" or not though.
Link Posted: 7/2/2016 9:23:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dinnertime:
Dude......you're using a fuck ton of malice clips. You could nix like two of those and be fine.
View Quote

Dude...six is four and four is none.

Flipping them will avoid stabbing myself in the gut, but seems like there has to be a better option altogether.
Link Posted: 7/2/2016 10:15:10 PM EDT
The WTF straps arent rigid plastic, just get those.
Link Posted: 7/3/2016 1:59:41 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dinnertime:
Dude......you're using a fuck ton of malice clips. You could nix like two three of those and be fine.



Anyways, lots of companies use a shorter clip that are more aesthetically pleasing or due to the size of the pouch but result in having as having a lump behind the pouch ect. If you want you can flip the clip upside down, and it will be hidden behind a mag. I don't know if that would be "lame" or not though.
View Quote


Pretty much this.
Link Posted: 7/3/2016 3:45:48 PM EDT
Still looking for some input on my original problem. The "you've got too many Malice Clips" comments were sort of helpful, but not a solution. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/3/2016 4:19:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AZ_SBR:
Still looking for some input on my original problem. The "you've got too many Malice Clips" comments were sort of helpful, but not a solution. Thanks.
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Originally Posted By AZ_SBR:
Still looking for some input on my original problem. The "you've got too many Malice Clips" comments were sort of helpful, but not a solution. Thanks.


Let me direct your attention to the red part:
Originally Posted By Dinnertime:
Dude......you're using a fuck ton of malice clips. You could nix like two of those and be fine.



Anyways, lots of companies use a shorter clip that are more aesthetically pleasing or due to the size of the pouch but result in having as having a lump behind the pouch ect. If you want you can flip the clip upside down, and it will be hidden behind a mag. I don't know if that would be "lame" or not though.

Link Posted: 7/3/2016 4:35:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:


Let me direct your attention to the red part:

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:
Originally Posted By AZ_SBR:
Still looking for some input on my original problem. The "you've got too many Malice Clips" comments were sort of helpful, but not a solution. Thanks.


Let me direct your attention to the red part:
Originally Posted By Dinnertime:
Dude......you're using a fuck ton of malice clips. You could nix like two of those and be fine.



Anyways, lots of companies use a shorter clip that are more aesthetically pleasing or due to the size of the pouch but result in having as having a lump behind the pouch ect. If you want you can flip the clip upside down, and it will be hidden behind a mag. I don't know if that would be "lame" or not though.



Originally Posted By AZ_SBR:
Flipping them will avoid stabbing myself in the gut, but seems like there has to be a better option altogether.

This still leaves them sticking out. Sticking up or sticking down. Neither is a good solution.
Link Posted: 7/3/2016 4:51:51 PM EDT
That's completely normal and Malice clips do that. They are fitting the way they are designed to fit.

Yes, you have too many, but you are set on using that many, so, so be it.

The only way you are going to avoid that is to use short Malice clips to take up less MOLLE rows, but you will trade off by not having as many rows weaved and may have some "flappage".

Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/3/2016 5:04:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2016 6:12:25 PM EDT by AZ_SBR]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 556Texas:
That's completely normal and Malice clips do that. They are fitting the way they are designed to fit.

Yes, you have too many, but you are set on using that many, so, so be it.

The only way you are going to avoid that is to use short Malice clips to take up less MOLLE rows, but you will trade off by not having as many rows weaved and may have some "flappage".

Good luck.
View Quote

Thanks for the constructive response 556Texas. Definitely not set on using so many Malice Clips, I was teasing. I'm totally open to using less whether it be Malice Clips or WTF straps. Seems like 1 on each outer mag pouch and 2 in the middle for a total of 4 would make it evenly distributed. If there's going to be a tail end sticking out, then I think the less rigid WTF straps would be better because they won't poke, scratch, gouge, etc. SKD sells it with the Malice Clips, but it sure would've been nice if they offered the WTF straps since that's what Esstac offers when you purchase directly off their website. Just slightly frustrating when you're trying to put something together and you've got to get multiple versions of the same thing to make it suck the least amount.
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 1:20:41 AM EDT
Unfortunately , that is a common problem with malice clips
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 4:42:12 AM EDT
AZ, I was just forwarded your email, and saw this post.



Unfortunately you have found out the issue with Malice clips that some run into, the locking block.


Malice clips are an awesome option for mounting pouches, and for a long time they were the only option for small companies like mine without having to pay royalties and spend the extra time making straps. They are secure, one of the most I think and a breeze to weave. However the locking block at times does pose challenges, either it sticks out from under pouches and is a visual annoyance(don't worry the bad guys wont stop shooting you to laugh ) they do pose some challenges on short mounting platforms especially in bendy areas if they stick out past everything else, like fronts of PCs and battle belts.

For areas where they may pose a poking issue I have always recommended flipping them so the locking block is up, usually does the trick. And served me well for many years.

You got a good color for matching the rest of your gear and I am happy TT does them in other then black now. You should not have any issues mounting them reversed. I just got my first other then black ones not to long ago, I am slow at times. Logan did an excellent job with the Malice, and their timing for the gear market was perfect.

HSGI offers a clip now I believe? worth a look, I have only seen a pic of them.


WTF straps are my new hotness, and I first heard about them in this very forum section. They are an absolute bitch to weave since they are a bit rubbery and do not like to slide over themselves(Malice excels here) and I feel they are not as secure as the Malice locking mechanism. But for me what they lack in some places they excel in others. They are thinner, are not as rigid as some offerings and the locking section while it still sticks out the bottom does not create hot spots in specific applications(yours in particular, and in a few of my own). For the less secure part, this is a non issue to me in every application I have used them, pulling the top of a pouch away you are gtg but if you grab the bottom and yank hard you do have a chance to unlock them, but so far I have not had this happen to me and they are on all my gear.


We did not sell any mounting option for a long time, but rather let our dealers handle that part of the equation and again Malice was the easiest to get. And we still do not supply a mounting option to them unless they request, and then its WTF. We do not do this to be a pain, its best for our size and lets the dealer/end user pick what works best for them. Allot of customers already have an excess of mounting options on hand and do not need more.




As for the "MUST fill ALL holes!!" Just because its there doesn't mean it needs to be stuffed, well usually . For a triple I recommend at least 3, one on each outboard side and one in one of the 2 center slots(players choice) But 4 is ideal, outboard and the two centers.


If you send me your shipping info in a PM or email, I will send you some WTFs for your triple. Just let the guys in this post know your thoughts on the different options.



An arfcomer sent me this picture, I wont mention any names, but it really annoyed the hell out of me. If you find you like the WTF straps, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS NYLON use the DBL lock feature.......
sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants

sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 10:35:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/4/2016 11:22:15 AM EDT by AZ_SBR]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By esstac-:
AZ, I was just forwarded your email, and saw this post.



Unfortunately you have found out the issue with Malice clips that some run into, the locking block.


Malice clips are an awesome option for mounting pouches, and for a long time they were the only option for small companies like mine without having to pay royalties and spend the extra time making straps. They are secure, one of the most I think and a breeze to weave. However the locking block at times does pose challenges, either it sticks out from under pouches and is a visual annoyance(don't worry the bad guys wont stop shooting you to laugh ) they do pose some challenges on short mounting platforms especially in bendy areas if they stick out past everything else, like fronts of PCs and battle belts.

For areas where they may pose a poking issue I have always recommended flipping them so the locking block is up, usually does the trick. And served me well for many years.

You got a good color for matching the rest of your gear and I am happy TT does them in other then black now. You should not have any issues mounting them reversed. I just got my first other then black ones not to long ago, I am slow at times. Logan did an excellent job with the Malice, and their timing for the gear market was perfect.

HSGI offers a clip now I believe? worth a look, I have only seen a pic of them.


WTF straps are my new hotness, and I first heard about them in this very forum section. They are an absolute bitch to weave since they are a bit rubbery and do not like to slide over themselves(Malice excels here) and I feel they are not as secure as the Malice locking mechanism. But for me what they lack in some places they excel in others. They are thinner, are not as rigid as some offerings and the locking section while it still sticks out the bottom does not create hot spots in specific applications(yours in particular, and in a few of my own). For the less secure part, this is a non issue to me in every application I have used them, pulling the top of a pouch away you are gtg but if you grab the bottom and yank hard you do have a chance to unlock them, but so far I have not had this happen to me and they are on all my gear.


We did not sell any mounting option for a long time, but rather let our dealers handle that part of the equation and again Malice was the easiest to get. And we still do not supply a mounting option to them unless they request, and then its WTF. We do not do this to be a pain, its best for our size and lets the dealer/end user pick what works best for them. Allot of customers already have an excess of mounting options on hand and do not need more.




As for the "MUST fill ALL holes!!" Just because its there doesn't mean it needs to be stuffed, well usually . For a triple I recommend at least 3, one on each outboard side and one in one of the 2 center slots(players choice) But 4 is ideal, outboard and the two centers.


If you send me your shipping info in a PM or email, I will send you some WTFs for your triple. Just let the guys in this post know your thoughts on the different options.



An arfcomer sent me this picture, I wont mention any names, but it really annoyed the hell out of me. If you find you like the WTF straps, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS NYLON use the DBL lock feature.......
sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants
http://pictures.esstac.com/SWEATPANTS.jpg
sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants sweatpants
View Quote

Esstac-

Thanks for taking the time to explain all of this - it's really helpful information. Also, I appreciate the gesture to hook me up with some WTF straps. I was planning on contacting you Tuesday to order some anyways, so this is super cool of you. I will certainly share the end result with the guys here. Sending you a PM now. On a side note, I almost pulled the trigger on the Esstac Daeodon plate carrier (was considering the Crye JPC 2.0 and the Banshee Elite 2.0 I bought) because of eaglecp's review and high-praise here on ARFcom. Your corresponding clip-in front panel/triple mag pouch seems like a great setup and would've averted the need for a weave-in attachment like I'm facing now. The price point on yours is much more attractive and from the looks of the carrier, it seems like it's way more comfortable. Kind of kicking myself now.
Link Posted: 7/5/2016 9:57:11 AM EDT
WTF strips = FTW!
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 5:12:37 AM EDT
I remember the good ol' days when everything was fixed with 550 cord.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 10:11:21 PM EDT
*UPDATE*

This afternoon I received six long WTFix straps and two short WTFix straps in coyote brown from Stu at Esstac. He sent them free of charge via USPS Priority Mail on his dime and I wanted to acknowledge that this was way beyond just good customer service, it was evidence of a customer-centric culture at Esstac. Many thanks - I really appreciate it! I've got a single pistol mag KYWI pouch on the way and he included the short straps for me to use on that.

I have to say that the WTFix straps are significantly better in terms of reducing the bulk and doing away with stomach-gouging plastic bits. While these took longer to install (the material can be a little uncooperative at times), the process was overall easier and less painful than working with the Malice Clips. Even though the ends hang out, they don't get in the way like the Malice Clip connectors did. Also the coloring is spot-on for my Coyote plate carrier. Really happy with the outcome here. And whether or not you agree, I used all six. But at least I used the double lock feature

Thanks Esstac!

Link Posted: 7/8/2016 12:54:50 AM EDT
You can tuck the locking portion of the WTF behind some of the webbing, then you wont see it at all
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 1:32:50 AM EDT
Ok, now you're just making me look bad... J/K. Thanks, you're right. Made them disappear.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 9:42:58 PM EDT
***UPDATE***

Well, it gets better...

Ryan over at Whiskey Two-Four IM'd me out of the blue and wrote that he wanted to send me a goodie bag. Today I received a mailer with over $45 in WTF accessories including long and short WTFix straps, an ultralight admin panel, a loopanywhere, and several zipper pulls - all in matching coyote brown. Definitely stoked and really grateful to both Stu at Esstac and Ryan at Whiskey Two-Four. I really am blown away at the generosity and the help. I continue to be amazed at the [great] vendors in this industry who go above and beyond to take care of customers. None of this was asked for, none of it was expected...it was just two cool companies taking care of someone. THANK YOU!

The Whiskey Two-Four goods


Admin panel installed on the Esstac triple mag pouch


'Merica
Link Posted: 7/12/2016 5:26:56 PM EDT
Why are these WTFix Straps so difficult to find? Are they just that new? I actually joined this forum because of the very reason that is stated on this post. I have used the Esstac and malice clips, received a m4 pouch with shotshell holder from Esstac and selected the WTFix strap option.... freaking amazing. I made a few July 4th purchases from 3 companies and received my esstac order that week....still waiting on the other two orders from elsewhere. This has to be about as good a combo as there is out there. Glad you got your problem fixed and I am glad I discovered as well. I am making a new order of just straps to replace all the malice clips once I figure out how many I need, too bad there is not more reviews and resources out there to explain this to the rest of the world.

Just one question...double locking feature, is that simply just pulling it through both notches?
Link Posted: 7/12/2016 6:07:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2016 6:08:59 PM EDT by AZ_SBR]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By paquette11b:
Why are these WTFix Straps so difficult to find? Are they just that new? I actually joined this forum because of the very reason that is stated on this post. I have used the Esstac and malice clips, received a m4 pouch with shotshell holder from Esstac and selected the WTFix strap option.... freaking amazing. I made a few July 4th purchases from 3 companies and received my esstac order that week....still waiting on the other two orders from elsewhere. This has to be about as good a combo as there is out there. Glad you got your problem fixed and I am glad I discovered as well. I am making a new order of just straps to replace all the malice clips once I figure out how many I need, too bad there is not more reviews and resources out there to explain this to the rest of the world.

Just one question...double locking feature, is that simply just pulling it through both notches?
View Quote

paquette11b, I'm thinking that end users just haven't caught on yet. I agree that the WTFix straps are significantly better than the Malice Clips and I will be using them exclusively going forward. It keeps things so trim and they snug up nicely.

In terms of the double-locking feature, the strap end should double back on itself like this:



Did I mentioned that the other Esstac stuff I've bought I love equally-as-much?
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