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Posted: 12/22/2008 2:59:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/25/2008 6:20:02 PM EST by mjkberg]
Here is something that gets over looked...

Have grip scews been covered? If so I didn't see them in the tacked M16 database.

We all know the 601 used a stainless steel flat blade screw with a hole through the head presumably for safety wire. The toothed washer had teeth facing out and was SS as well.

What was next? How many models used this screw type? Were plain flat head screws next? What is the military using now? Socket head cap screws (allen head)?

Could someone please give scew/washer types and dates.

Is this covered anywhere in the site?
Link Posted: 12/22/2008 5:44:51 PM EST
to the best of my knowledge, the same screw has always been used, at least up until the past year or so,

any other screw is probably an aftermarket piece,

I'll shoot a source an email and get him to post (wpnsman)

Link Posted: 12/22/2008 7:46:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By rlc:
to the best of my knowledge, the same screw has always been used, at least up until the past year or so,

any other screw is probably an aftermarket piece,

I'll shoot a source an email and get him to post (wpnsman)



Same thing I was thinking too. The screw with the retaining wire hole appears to be G.I. ingenuity for finding an NSN screw that was the same size/pitch (or maybe someone placed an order for them thorugh NSN and that is what happened to show up). The hex heads are a commercial part as far as I know. the stianless steel slot head should be the correct one for all periods AFAIK.

That being said, we seem to learn somethign new every day, and just for example we recently discovered there are a lot of different pistol grip molds that were used...

Link Posted: 12/23/2008 3:53:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2008 4:13:19 AM EST by JimEb]
What's the spec on this grip screw: threads and length?
Also, a little off topic, but does anyone know the spec on the screw to attach a no-trapdoor stock to the buffer tube?

I'm building up my retro and I don't have the fasteners. I imagine they are standard fasteners and I have access to zillions of them at work...just need to know their specs.

UPDATE: found the specs for the grip screw on another thread 1/4" x 28tpi x 1" long

So far didn't find the specs for the stock screw.
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 2:54:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By rlc:
to the best of my knowledge, the same screw has always been used, at least up until the past year or so,

any other screw is probably an aftermarket piece,

I'll shoot a source an email and get him to post (wpnsman)



This is correct,

Although the same screw minus the safety wire hole will be encountered intermixed throughout A1 and later production. Most rifles of A2 or later manufacture have screws without the hole. Variation is in my view, more the result of what was available than any change to the spec, YMMV.

WpnsMan
Link Posted: 12/23/2008 4:42:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By JimEb:
Also, a little off topic, but does anyone know the spec on the screw to attach a no-trapdoor stock to the buffer tube?


1/4" x 28tpi x 9/16" Flat Head...
Link Posted: 12/25/2008 6:19:23 PM EST
So the concensus is that current Military grip scews are slot head and not allen head? Rock river and Fulton use allen head screws... but for our purposes I want to know what is USGI.

If anyone knows someone currently serving in the military, can they ask them to look into the grip and see if their M16A2, A4, M4 is allen head or slotted?

Or if anyone has a new Colt 6920 can they look into the grip and confirm?



Link Posted: 12/25/2008 6:33:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/25/2008 6:35:02 PM EST by shamayim]
Originally Posted By mjkberg:
So the concensus is that current Military grip scews are slot head and not allen head? Rock river and Fulton use allen head screws... but for our purposes I want to know what is USGI.

If anyone knows someone currently serving in the military, can they ask them to look into the grip and see if their M16A2, A4, M4 is allen head or slotted?

Or if anyone has a new Colt 6920 can they look into the grip and confirm?






So far as I know, the military uses the slotted head screw––-because a screwdriver is a hell of a lot easier to find out in the field than a hex wrench


DPMS grip screws are the slotted original type. I bought a bunch of 'em awhile back. If you just need one. email me and and I'll send you one.

Link Posted: 12/25/2008 7:06:44 PM EST
Now, let's throw another monkey wrench into the mix - are they Grade 5? Grade 8? It was me, I'd buy a hardened bolt. I just ordered 2 from Sherluk without even thinking about it. I paid $1.45 ea when I could have paid maybe .75 ! My God, NO WONDER this hobby is killing me financially!
Link Posted: 12/26/2008 6:10:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By mjkberg:
So the concensus is that current Military grip scews are slot head and not allen head? Rock river and Fulton use allen head screws... but for our purposes I want to know what is USGI.

If anyone knows someone currently serving in the military, can they ask them to look into the grip and see if their M16A2, A4, M4 is allen head or slotted?

Or if anyone has a new Colt 6920 can they look into the grip and confirm?




read Wpnsman's post,
he's a currently a CW4

Link Posted: 12/26/2008 11:25:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2008 11:45:21 AM EST by mjkberg]
After looking over Army TM 1005 319 23&P, Air Force TO 11W3 5-5 42

I have found the following .

"When utilizing the enhanced rifle grip (it has a bump between the second third finger for a better grip) PN 9349127, rifle grip screw. PN AN 501D416 18 (1-1/8 in.) or AN 501 D416 16 (1 in ), is authorized to be( used with the enhanced grip Any screw longer than 1-1 8 In used with 9349127 could cause a hazardous situation. Also,
ensure the washer is in place."


Part Number CAGECode Item Name NSN
AN501D416-18 88044 SCREW,MACHINE, RIFLE GRIP 5305012681191
MS35335-61 96906 WASHER,LOCK,RIFLE GRIP 5310005273634

The nsn for the lock washer displays a split lock washer. Not the toothed variety. Modern rifles must have a lock washer

Pic in Section 4-5 depicts a flat head scew and external tooth lock washer. The teeth on the washer are pointing outward. The washers DPMS supplies are internal tooth lock washers, the teeth are facing inward.

So I guess if you are doing a M16A1, early M16A2/M4 then use a 1/4" external tooth lock washer.
If you are doing a more modern M16A2/M4 than use a 1/4" split lock washer.
Right?


Link Posted: 12/26/2008 1:16:24 PM EST
mjkberg,

The figures you are looking at in the TM describing the grip screw and washer (chapter 2, pg.64 and the parts schematic, figure C11) are probably what is confusing you.

The pictures in the TM are NOT always representative of the actual configuration of small parts. This is especially true when depicting parts at distance when small parts are sub-assemblies of larger components.

Go to chapter 4, pages 2 to 5 where it discusses the selector lock bracket. Those illustrations accurately depict the lock washer with teeth on the outside.

Conventional lock washers, those with internal teeth and Allen headed bolts are substituted by commercial vendors because they are cheap and easily obtainable. They are incorrect for any era of GI M16.

WpnsMan
Link Posted: 12/26/2008 5:14:36 PM EST
I have a whole box of pre-ban grip screws for any of you in the ban states...



Sorry, had to do it...
Link Posted: 12/26/2008 11:00:47 PM EST
Every USGI M4 Carbine I've seen and bothered to look at had a flat headed screw, and toothed lock washer. Several soldiers I knew asked for my help changing out their pistol grips, whether to MIADs or G27s or Hogues, so I did see a couple. Obviously, I didn't go checking each and every one. Not sure which way the teeth faced.

This was in the '07-'08 timeframe. I highly doubt things have changed since then.

HTH,
~Augee

Link Posted: 12/27/2008 4:48:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2008 5:22:07 PM EST by mjkberg]
I actually looked the NSN up in a public search engine and it gave a pic of a split washer.

You are right, I looked up the nsn on another site and it shows a tooth washer description.

More info for those wishing to find this screw in stainless. Its called a Fillister head screw and we already know the dimensions are 1/4 x 28" x 1".


http://www.smithfast.com/trussrndfill.html#fillister
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