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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 12/11/2003 4:13:12 PM EST
I was reading an article in a gun magazine and it showed that new for remington, the big green, this year is the 6.8mm remington special purpose cartridge.  The said it was based on the .30 remington.  Does anyone know if and when you can get this ammo or guns?
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 4:59:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 5:00:20 PM EST by Gewehr3]
Do a search on www.tacticalforums.com and Lightfighter.com discussion forums.

Here a link to some Remington production ammo to whet the appetite (hint look under the HK):

Link Posted: 12/11/2003 5:04:22 PM EST
I would also like to know when these new rounds are going to come out, and will these new rounds cause as much damage as M193 within the fragmentation range?  
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 9:52:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 10:48:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By 556Cliff:
I would also like to know when these new rounds are going to come out, and will these new rounds cause as much damage as M193 within the fragmentation range?  
View Quote

It's been delays upon delays.  But, supposedly the cartridge will be officially unveiled at SHOT.

As for the damage, it will be significantly better.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 2:27:21 AM EST
I got an email from Remington Friday. They wiil have some news for 2004 on their Web Site starting 1/1/04. Do not know if 6.8 info will be released then, but it will be worth a look.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 11:55:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 12:20:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By JJREA:
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February.  I can't remember the dates.
Link Posted: 12/13/2003 10:04:13 PM EST
The standard spec seems to be a 115 grain bullet at 2,650 fps from a 16 inch barrel, develping 55% more muzzle energy than the 5.56mm M855 (I have also seen 110 grains at around 2,700). The ballistic coefficient of the bullet is much the same as the 5.56mm 77 grain Mk 262, which means that at 600 yards it is developing 84% more energy than the M855.

The bullet will reportedly fragment out to at least 300 yards.

I have read short-range penetration tests, against a target with loaded AK-47 mags in chest pouches. The 6.8mm is considerably more effective than the M855.

It sounds like the best idea in military rifles for a long time. In fact, given its long range performance, it could possibly replace the 7.62mm as well.

It fits pretty well with most people's idea of an 'idealmilitary cartridge' has been for a long time. See: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition [URL=http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk]website[/URL] and Discussion [URL=http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/]forum[/URL]
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 6:21:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2003 6:31:03 PM EST by kel]
Time and the market will tell if it's going to have staying power more than the wunder-rounds of previous years, but I think this one is going to be a winner...

The initial testing with it looks very promising.  The ammo I got from Remington was all 115grn, and appears to be fairly standardized at this point.

I grabbed a 6.8 round along with some other stuff to illustrate what some other ammo looked like, compared to other 'common' cartridges.  Maybe this photo I took will be of interest to you as well...



Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:51:24 PM EST
Kel, any chance of you sending me a high-res, side-on image (against a white or neutral background - pref no shadows) of the 6.8x43, in between the 5.56x45 and the 7.62x51? I'm looking for a good picture to use in a book on the history of the assault rifle, which I'm writing with Max Popenker. Obviously, any pic used in the book will have its source acknowledged.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition [URL=http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk]website[/URL] and discussion
[URL=http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/] forum[/URL]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 3:47:12 PM EST
oh my heaven's, it's beautiful!!!!!!  kel, who are you that you got to buy some?  where did you buy it?  thank you for putting the picture together.  by the way, what is that flat point doing in your .308?
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:36:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By JJREA:
by the way, what is that flat point doing in your .308?
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My guess is that is subsonic TTI ammo.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 8:30:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By brouhaha:
My guess is that is subsonic TTI ammo.
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***Your guess would be correct. And, to answer the above post as to who I am to have this stuff... I'm just some guy.


Link Posted: 12/31/2003 8:50:57 AM EST
Not trying to be a smart ass, but ballistically this round sounds like a slightly shortened and necked up 250 Savage.

Link Posted: 12/31/2003 5:43:01 PM EST
jmart, you're right.  And what a useful round it may be.  Just because it doesn't break any velocity records doesn't mean it isn't useful.  Plus, if I'm not mistaken the 6.8 or .277 has a higher sectional density than a .25 caliber in respective weights.  But more importantly, it might be the next round used by our military.  Even if it's not, I like the idea of the round.  A light kicking, multi-purpose round.  
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 7:49:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2004 7:53:16 AM EST by al_bum]
Thats great! I could start handloading FMJ's for me old 270; for no particular purpose, but just cause I can. [:D]
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 7:50:53 AM EST
JJREA, I'm not badmouthing the idea, it's just kind of funny that we are going to adopt a round that's very similar ballistically to a commercial round that's been loaded for years.  the difference is in the packaging, but that's the whole crux if the issue I guess.  I guess it just takes time to analyze and figure out what the weaknesses of the current rounds are, then figure out what you need to do to correct that deficiency, then figure out the best packaging arrangement for your new round.  

BTW, you've got the SD backwards -- for equal weights, the smaller diameter round has the higher SD.

Link Posted: 1/1/2004 7:43:25 PM EST
jmart, maybe you're right.  What is the sectional density of 100 grain .25 cal spitzer bullet?
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 7:46:26 PM EST
the other thing is it's way shorter than a 250 savage.  Thus making it able to fire in the ar15 or like package.  I should've mentioned that earlier!!
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 7:51:48 PM EST
this is what remington put on their website about the 6.8. Not much, but its there.

Link Posted: 1/1/2004 8:07:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By TonyWilliams:
I'm looking for a good picture to use in a book on the history of the assault rifle, which I'm writing with Max Popenker. Obviously, any pic used in the book will have its source acknowledged.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/2/2004 2:47:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 4:52:56 AM EST
Sectional density for 115 grain pills:

.257 = .248
.277/6.8 = .214

Not sure if SD is a big deal anyway, at least at most combat ranges, given that it seems that fragmentation is a current design goal of anti personnel rounds.  SD is important when you are hunting elk or Cape Buffalo, but not so sure in this particular role, unless designers are looking at reducing fragmentation to improve penetration through various barriers.

Also, the BC listed from the Remington page compares with Hornady's 68 grain BTHP Match bullet (.330), so I suspect that the 5.56 77 grain OTM, launched at basically the same velocity, would still fly a bit flatter.  But the 115 pill does give you more energy out there.

I would like to know what the terminal performance of that bullet would be at 400/500/600 meters given that velocity has fallen off quite a bit.  You are probably below the threshold for fragmentation out there and at that point your SD comes into play.
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 9:33:51 AM EST
Isn't the 6.8mm supposed to fragment up to 500 yards? Isn't that one of the requirements?
Link Posted: 1/2/2004 9:42:58 AM EST
Interesting that the 6.8mm OTM bullet has about the same SD (.214/.219) and BC (.34) as the Nosler 77 grain HPBT.  A .223 load with the 77 grain round would have have about the same velocity too (2800 fps).  Their trajectory would be identical, with the heavier round doing better in the wind.

The 77 grain round loaded to 5.56 pressues would of course have higher velocity.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 5:54:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 1:08:57 PM EST
Imposter, I agree with you.  I think the 77 grain is a great round.  I think it probably solves alot of problems.  But, the wheel is in motion already to change.  At least in my opinion seems that way.  The 6.8 has definitely more energy at all ranges though. Yeah, I wonder how it would be if the 5.56 had the 77 grainers ten years ago.  It may be a different story.  Or maybe not.  I think in all cases there is a wave for more powerful rounds.  Because the same talk is going on about the pistol too.  With some units even using the .45.  It's all very interesting to me.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 3:15:40 PM EST
The advantage of this round will certainly be better intermediate barrier penetration.  Just as the .40 and .45 TEND to be better against autoglass than 9mm all of the same bullet.  Think of this round as being between a 5.56mm on autolgass - requires use of only certain ammunition (Federal TBBC 55gr or 62gr) in order to still have good terminal effectiveness and a 7.62mm 155gr Hornady A-Max -- which can penetrate triple laminated .375" safety glass used on busses and transits.  Obviously, as in any other caliber, certain rounds will perform better through autoglass than others.  However, the 6.8mm will most likely give acceptable or good terminal results through autoglass and other intermediate barriers without having to use a specialized round that gives up good terminal performance when used against soft targets.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 10:35:56 PM EST
While it is unlikely any round will work extremely well in ALL possible applications, going to a larger caliber heavier round is more likely to satisfy more customers than trying to extract better performance in a .223.

(I checked out the Remington link and went back to the AMMO home page.  Wow  that 8-Gauge Masterblaster is impressive.  I bet one of those would have worked at the NOHO Bank shootout.)
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