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AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 10/17/2008 8:24:30 AM EDT
hey guys -

i know the threads of new builds are getting ridiculous now but i am also a noob that is planning a build.  i will for sure build it myself with the exception of a completed upper.

i have heard that CMMG parts will build up a nice rifle.  my current plans include CMMG stripped lower, CMMG LPK, CMMG two stage trigger, skeleton stock, CMMG completed upper.  then optics, light, etc. later not included in the $1250.

i know i can build a rifle for less than $1250 but that is the budget i set and want to build it right the first time.  i want to build a rifle that is very versatile and that i will not out grow right away.  of course the first one leads to the second one.  ha ha.

SO....  if you had $1250 to build a rifle, what parts would you use ?  and why ?

am i on the right track ?  what brand parts do i use ?  stripped lower ?  LPK ?  two stage trigger ?  completed upper ?  (also what twist ? 1/7 or 1/12?  CAR or mid length ?)

what is the difference in a CAR upper vs. midlength, etc ?

like i said i'm new to this and any help to get me on the right track would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

tom

Link Posted: 10/17/2008 8:28:53 AM EDT
[#1]
not much these days..
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 8:35:25 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
hey guys -

i know the threads of new builds are getting ridiculous now but i am also a noob that is planning a build.  i will for sure build it myself with the exception of a completed upper.

i have heard that CMMG parts will build up a nice rifle.  my current plans include CMMG stripped lower, CMMG LPK, CMMG two stage trigger, skeleton stock, CMMG completed upper.  then optics, light, etc. later not included in the $1250.

i know i can build a rifle for less than $1250 but that is the budget i set and want to build it right the first time.  i want to build a rifle that is very versatile and that i will not out grow right away.  of course the first one leads to the second one.  ha ha.

SO....  if you had $1250 to build a rifle, what parts would you use ?  and why ?

am i on the right track ?  what brand parts do i use ?  stripped lower ?  LPK ?  two stage trigger ?  completed upper ?  (also what twist ? 1/7 or 1/12?  CAR or mid length ?)

what is the difference in a CAR upper vs. midlength, etc ?

like i said i'm new to this and any help to get me on the right track would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

tom



Buy a new colt and a box of ammo with the few bucks left over,  money spent,  problem solved.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 8:36:34 AM EDT
[#3]
Buy a complete upper and build your own lower, if you shop around you'll have enough money leftover for a 10-pack of mags from DSG Arms.

ETA: the difference between a carbine and a mid-length - the gas tube and handguards.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 9:13:09 AM EDT
[#4]
i agree it would be easier purchasing one outright but i have to be familiar with the inner workings.

i know people are biased with brands, but there must be differences in quality, reliable, craftsmanship, etc.  
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 9:22:04 AM EDT
[#5]
BCM 16" Midlength Upper = $450
BCM BCG and Charging Handle = $150
ARMS 40L = $110
Normal handguards = $25
Stripped lower = $120
Lower parts kit = $60
Magpul MIAD = $35
Milspec Buffer + Magpul CTR = $150
10 Magpul PMags = $140

$1240
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 9:29:19 AM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
BCM 16" Midlength Upper = $450
BCM BCG and Charging Handle = $150
ARMS 40L = $110
Normal handguards = $25
Stripped lower = $120
Lower parts kit = $60
Magpul MIAD = $35
Milspec Buffer + Magpul CTR = $150
10 Magpul PMags = $140

$1240


Pretty much what I'd say.  Except I'd probably put a different rear sight on, either Larue or LMT if no magnified optic is to be used.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 9:30:38 AM EDT
[#7]
shit for that much I'd build 2 using some used parts off of the EE.  You can easily get used stocks and uppers off of the EE for pretty cheap sometimes, you just have to watch it like a hawk and pounce on it right away.

EA lowers are the cheapest and they're pretty good quality too.  IMHO if you spend more than $125 for a stripped lower OTD you've spent to much.  They're all more or less the same until you start talking about billet receivers.  An idea for some G2G brands, and this isn't the be all and end all list either just what i can come up with off the top of my head

DPMS
RRA
Essential Arms
Superior Arms
Double Star

For a parts kit, get this www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/AR_CMMG_AR15_Lower_Parts_Kit.html CMMG parts and it's the average price for a LPK

Of course get lots of good mags too, check out 44mag, copes distributing, and AIM.  Pmags or GI mags, doesn't really matter
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 9:44:05 AM EDT
[#8]
NDS A2 lower: $140

nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm

+ ~50 transfer costs

CMT/Stag LPK: $70

Colt complete carbine upper from Fidelis Firearms: ~$750 - ~$1,100 ($850 LE6920 upper)

www.fidelisfirearms.com/images/colt/M4A3BG.jpg

BCM Gen II M4 stock assembly: ~$82.95

www.bravocompanyusa.com/M4-Stock-Milspec-p/stock%20m4%20milspec%20black%20-%20gen2.htm

DSG Arms D&H Teflon coated USGI magazines with MagPul follower - 10 pack: $100

dsgarms.com/index.cfm/product/2227_25/black-teflon-coated-30-round-anti-tilt-ar15-m16-magazine---10-pack.cfm
_________________________________

= ~$1,292.95

That gives you an excellent lower and LPK, a complete upper with handguards, BCG assembly, and detachable carry handle assembly and enough mags to keep you.  And you'll have an AR that you've built yourself that surpasses most of the mixmasters on this site.  

HTH,
~Augee


Link Posted: 10/17/2008 10:24:08 AM EDT
[#9]
I'd build the best lower I could with what I had left after buying THIS or THIS.

I'd build something around Noveske's N4 barrel if you could get them separately, but you can't
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 10:24:09 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
hey guys -

i know the threads of new builds are getting ridiculous now but i am also a noob that is planning a build.  i will for sure build it myself with the exception of a completed upper.

i have heard that CMMG parts will build up a nice rifle.  my current plans include CMMG stripped lower, CMMG LPK, CMMG two stage trigger, skeleton stock, CMMG completed upper.  then optics, light, etc. later not included in the $1250.

i know i can build a rifle for less than $1250 but that is the budget i set and want to build it right the first time.  i want to build a rifle that is very versatile and that i will not out grow right away.  of course the first one leads to the second one.  ha ha.

SO....  if you had $1250 to build a rifle, what parts would you use ?  and why ?

am i on the right track ?  what brand parts do i use ?  stripped lower ?  LPK ?  two stage trigger ?  completed upper ?  (also what twist ? 1/7 or 1/12?  CAR or mid length ?)

what is the difference in a CAR upper vs. midlength, etc ?

like i said i'm new to this and any help to get me on the right track would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

tom



Well I'll stick to answering some of your questions...  The difference between the CAR upper and mid-length, is the length of the gas tube and the forend.  Most people recommend a mid-length on longer barrels as it reduces the forces placed on your weapon during cycling (when the fired round is ejected and a new round is chambered).  I've got a carbine length on my 16" barrel and I haven't run into a problem but again I see people recommend the mid-length for this length barrel most often.

A 2 stage trigger is really only going to be neccesary if your shooting for competitions or real accuracy.  As I understand it, the first stage of the trigger allows the trigger to be pulled right up to the fire point and then the pull pressure changes allowing you to stop there and re-adjust your aim (allowing for better aim and accuracy) before you fire.  This makes it so you don't have to hold the aim through the entire trigger pull, just that last tiny bit of trigger pull.  So being new to AR's you probably don't need this and that will save you about $100.

As for twist rate on the barrel, the most popular from what I've seen for the .223/5.56 is 1/7 or 1/9, not 1/12.  As I understand it, the 1/9 gives greater versatility as to grain of bullets fired.  Allowing you to shoot 55-62 grn at least and possible even 75grn.  I'm not sure about the 75 as I only shoot 55 grn with my 1/9.  So I'm sure someone else could answer that.  Also when it comes to the barrel, make sure it's chambered in 5.56 as this will allow you to shoot both the 5.56 and the .223 round.  With a .223 barrel you should not shoot 5.56 out of it because this is a tiny bit bigger than the barrel and can cause damage, get stuck, etc...  So give yourself piece of mind and get the barrel that can shoot both, the 5.56.

You should look through the sticky posts in the majority of the forums here under the AR15 category heading and you will find a ton of information of these topics that will help answer many of your questions.

If anyone sees anything I just posted that is not completely correct please correct me
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 10:29:29 AM EDT
[#11]
height=8
Quoted:
I'd build the best lower I could with what I had left after buying THIS or THIS.

I'd build something around Noveske's N4 barrel if you could get them separately, but you can't what lower would you build ?
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 10:36:10 AM EDT
[#12]
BCM middy 16" upper $450.00
BCM BCG and Charging Handle = $150
Larue 9" rail = $273.00
Stripped lower = $100
Lower parts kit = $58.95
Magpul MIAD = $34.15
A2 stock = $64.95
4 Magpul PMags = $56
3 magpul XTM rail covers = 23.85

$1210.90

well actually the N4 light recce posted above in mid config would be an excelent upper. but would be railless for now. could always add the 9" larue later.


Link Posted: 10/17/2008 10:37:54 AM EDT
[#13]
find a lower with the roll mark that you like.  most lowers are pretty much the same.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 10:41:23 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
I'd build the best lower I could with what I had left after buying THIS or THIS.

I'd build something around Noveske's N4 barrel if you could get them separately, but you can't

they want $30 just to ship the upper...wtf?!
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 11:52:49 AM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
BCM 16" Midlength Upper = $450
BCM BCG and Charging Handle = $150
ARMS 40L = $110
Normal handguards = $25
Stripped lower = $120
Lower parts kit = $60
Magpul MIAD = $35
Milspec Buffer + Magpul CTR = $150
10 Magpul PMags = $140

$1240

What he said except I would use a LaRue BUIS.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 12:53:40 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd build the best lower I could with what I had left after buying THIS or THIS.

I'd build something around Noveske's N4 barrel if you could get them separately, but you can't


what lower would you build ?


The one you like the rollmark on, they are pretty much all the same

ETA:  I have built Spikes, Stag, CMMG, Bushmaster, DPMS, RRA, and Predator Custom Shop lowers and they are all the same quality wise

At this point in MY collection, for $1250, I would buy two Delton stripped lower and two Del-Ton lightweight rifle kits with A1 uppers.  The total cost is $1230.00 for what equates to two lightweight K.I.S.S. carbines of good quality.

I just returned to Japan from 30 days leave and picked up two lowers while I was home so that my twin, two year old sons can get the lightweight rifle kits for Christmas and have their first AR by the time they turn three years old.  Of course it wil be in TN until we move back but it is worth the wait.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 1:56:10 PM EDT
[#17]
I'd buy a good book on the AR 15 like the one Fulton Armory sells, and study it. Then I'd go to a fairly big Gun Show and (hopefully) find a commercial lower and enough USGI parts to build a serviceable AR.  You can shoot it, abuse it and disassemble it a bazillion times just like a real GI would, without really hurting it.
If you want your first AR to be a NICE one, buy a Colt, Armalite Or Bushmaster.  One of these will be easy to sell if you decide that you want something different.  Good luck!
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 2:04:24 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:
BCM 16" Midlength Upper = $450
BCM BCG and Charging Handle = $150
ARMS 40L = $110
Normal handguards = $25
Stripped lower = $120
Lower parts kit = $60
Magpul MIAD = $35
Milspec Buffer + Magpul CTR = $150
10 Magpul PMags = $140

$1240


THIS, ASAP or whatever variation of this floats your boat.

BCM was out of BCGs last I checked but they do still have the 16' middies in...

It's a serious upper, I love mine


AS for which lower, I second the "whichever you like the rollmark on" comment, As long as its from one of like a dozen or more reputable manufacturers it really shouldn't matter...
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 2:14:50 PM EDT
[#19]
CMMG parts are indeed great... if you want a customized upper, they're the place to go.

Still, with a $1250 budget, I'd go:

BCM 16" Middy Upper (or CMMG from AIM Surplus)
DD Omega Rail System
LT BUIS

Spike's Tactical Lower (or CMMG) with CMMG 2-Stage Trigger.  Direct from CMMG would also be an option, with added ACE stock.

To that, all you'd possibly want is a Surefire 6V light, mount (VLTOR, VTAC, DD, LT); Aimpoint sight (ML3, T-1, M4S), and a small mountain of PMags (check out GoTimeGear.com, especially for ranger plates, and maglevel versions)
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 5:45:32 PM EDT
[#20]
cool.  this should get me on the right track...  i knew this board would give me more info than i could process.  i'll keep you updated...
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:19:24 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:
BCM middy 16" upper $450.00
BCM BCG and Charging Handle = $150
Larue 9" rail = $273.00
Stripped lower = $100
Lower parts kit = $58.95
Magpul MIAD = $34.15
A2 stock = $64.95
4 Magpul PMags = $56
3 magpul XTM rail covers = 23.85

$1210.90

well actually the N4 light recce posted above in mid config would be an excelent upper. but would be railless for now. could always add the 9" larue later.




Yep  +1 on that list.

$1250 is plenty to get it done.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:22:46 PM EDT
[#22]
stag lower-my local shop has them for $115
lpk-$60ish
bcm upper-$600ish with bcg
magpul ctr-$120 if you watch the ee
magpul miad-$30-40 on the ee
lmt rear sight-$80 on the ee
eotech-as low as $275 on the ee.

around $1290.  

ive bought a ctr, miad,lmt rear and eotech of the ee and had very good luck with those items.  throw in a kac ras for $150 off the ee and you will have basically the same gun that i just set up.  wish i went with the bcm upper though.



Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:43:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Laure Upper.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 6:58:39 PM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd build the best lower I could with what I had left after buying THIS or THIS.

I'd build something around Noveske's N4 barrel if you could get them separately, but you can't


what lower would you build ?


The one you like the rollmark on, they are pretty much all the same


+1  Any lower from a reputable manufacturer will do.  I've used Stag/CMT, DPMS (Fulton Armory) and Nodak Spud (NDS-16A1).  See what's available locally.

As to lower parts kits, do a search.  Almost every brand has its proponents.  See what the guys who build ARs for a living (or at least lots of ARs) have to say.  FWIW, I've had good luck with the White Oak Lower Parts Kit from ADCO.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 7:20:54 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:
BCM 16" Midlength Upper = $450
BCM BCG and Charging Handle = $150
ARMS 40L = $110
Normal handguards = $25
Stripped lower = $120
Lower parts kit = $60
Magpul MIAD = $35
Milspec Buffer + Magpul CTR = $150
10 Magpul PMags = $140

$1240



or he could pick up an LMT defender 2000(with LMT rear sight and sopmod stock) that is fully built with 10 mags for $1270.
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 7:43:28 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
BCM 16" Midlength Upper = $450
BCM BCG and Charging Handle = $150
ARMS 40L = $110
Normal handguards = $25
Stripped lower = $120
Lower parts kit = $60
Magpul MIAD = $35
Milspec Buffer + Magpul CTR = $150
10 Magpul PMags = $140

$1240



or he could pick up an LMT defender 2000(with LMT rear sight and sopmod stock) that is fully built with 10 mags for $1270.


this is true.  prob be my next
Link Posted: 10/17/2008 7:43:57 PM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:
BCM 16" Midlength Upper = $450
BCM BCG and Charging Handle = $150
ARMS 40L = $110
Normal handguards = $25
Stripped lower = $120
Lower parts kit = $60
Magpul MIAD = $35
Milspec Buffer + Magpul CTR = $150
10 Magpul PMags = $140

$1240



+1
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