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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/19/2004 4:34:51 PM EST
Seems that a lot of folks are ditching arms stuff for troy or larue.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:47:48 PM EST
Nothing wrong with my stuff. But then again I only have around 400 rounds with the ARMS stuff on it and don't abuse my rifle.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:28:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:40:06 PM EST
They're not the latest fashion.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:46:50 PM EST
nadda

only had 1 problem w/ my arms stuff----

22m68 screws came loose... retightened with loctite... not a problem since
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:55:51 PM EST
Personally, I like the mechanism of the ARMS 40 more than the Troy BUIS, but it's my last ARMS preference.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:34:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:
They're not the latest fashion.





Ditto!
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 8:51:10 PM EST
I love all the A.R.M.S stuff.

Proven and simple to use.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:18:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By 69hpbt:
Seems that a lot of folks are ditching arms stuff for troy or larue.



Where you live/shoot, here on the internet, where do you perceive this is happening at?


Chris
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:41:42 PM EST
I thank God every night for two functioning arms and a healthy trigger finger.


Shooting would be a lot harder without them.




Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:47:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 2:22:03 AM EST
I'm still sticking with my ARMS #40a. IMHO, it's still one of the best fold down BUIS available.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 4:16:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 4:19:55 AM EST by AKM]
Like most of the ARMS stuff…….weight and bulk. Compare a ARMS M68 mount to the LaRue M68 mount and you will understand what I mean.

Also the lack of adjustability when used with slightly out of spec rail systems.

Though I do like the #40L!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:51:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By AKM:
Like most of the ARMS stuff…….weight and bulk. Compare a ARMS M68 mount to the LaRue M68 mount and you will understand what I mean.

Also the lack of adjustability when used with slightly out of spec rail systems.

Though I do like the #40L!



What is the weight difference between the ARMS #22M68 mount and Larue Aimpoint mount?


Chris
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:04:55 AM EST
Whats wrong with ARMS? They dont actually make anything themselves. They just provide blueprints to Company X and ask for 101 widgets to be made. In the old days that worked OK. Now see ARMS ordered 202 Widgets from Company X but they didnt sell and all their capital is tied up in the 202 widgets that they had made hoping to get a Govt Contract.

The Contract didnt happen so they came up with some more capital, and ordered another 101 widgets from Comany Y. Company Y didnt make the Widgets as well as Company X, but you cant get anything else from Company X till you pay the bill for the 202 Widgets that the Govt didnt buy.

Thus you see why ARMS products have went downhill. I have never seen any "Good" ARMS products, just crap that cost too much and never worked right.



Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:54:44 AM EST
I just ordred an ARM #35QD mount. I hope it was made by com[pany X and not Company Y!

I like the ARMs stuff and the ARMS stuff that I have seems to work fine!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:05:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 11:21:32 AM EST by Edge767]
Hmmm... seems about a year ago, everyone was spewing their love-fest for A.R.M.S. gear. Today, LaRue is the one people gush over.

I remember when I joined here in April last year (yes, I guess I'm SUCH a newb compared to many around here) that there were people complaining about how the stuff everyone used prior to A.R.M.S. was just as good, and nearly everyone on the board bashed 'em and said, "Hah! You idiots, A.R.M.S. is SOOO much better. Quality, design, etc..." In effect, they were doing the same exact thing then that the LaRuessies are doing now: forsaking their older gear for the new hotness.

This time, I'm not buying anything new until I see a reason to replace anything on my weapons systems. When I build some new rifles this fall, I may consider LaRue gear, but NOT because it's the latest FAD (and it IS the latest FAD, whether people will admit it or not).

As they would say on fark.com:

Old and busted: A.R.M.S.
New Hotness: LaRue

Well, I guess I'm just not seeing such a vast improvement. Could LaRue be better stuff? Perhaps. Could it be lighter than A.R.M.S.? Sure. Is it all American made vs. foreign made? According to the "experts" here, this is true. Does this mean I MUST go out and buy LaRue stuff and hope some unwitting non-ARFOM'r buys my A.R.M.S. gear? HELL NO.

The bottom line is: if you like your A.R.M.S. stuff, keep it. If you like LaRue stuff, buy it. But opinions are like assholes, people, and guess what: another person's asshole always stinks more than your own. It's really getting annoying to see people "proclaim" with such "authority" that the A.R.M.S. system(s) is/are broken. They are not. They're just not "the new hotness."

Go spend your money, people. I'll spend mine on a new lower and CAR kit and have ANOTHER AR instead of the new hotness.

________________________________________________________________

Edited to add: Reviews of new equipment, when written fair and balanced, is always welcome. Interjecting an opinion into a review is also acceptable, nay, appreciated. Posting experience with one piece of gear over another: fair. But, posting something that is meant to sound authoritative while based solely, or in large part due to preference, that's when I raise the BS flag. (Inspired by Lumpy's response. I had to clarify my position on this. MAD PROPS and RESPECT to LUMPY!!!)
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:09:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 11:10:26 AM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:12:41 AM EST
Sharing knowledge (and you, Lumpy have LOTS of that to share!!!) is great... but seeing people get their feelings involved and start bashing one or the other (I won't bash LaRue just 'cause I'm not jumping on the fad bandwagon) really is getting annoying.

And yes... there is a large group that wants to "be cool" and have the latest and greatest.

Turns out my sociology professor was right about the whole conspicuous spending thing. :(
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:16:22 AM EST
I have three ARMS products.

A SIR #51C, #39 A2 Plus mount and #22M68. They work good for me. A big plus is, they're already paid for.

I would like sell the #51C but not because anything is wrong with it. My Colt Commando A1 upper won't work with it. It's not the fault of the ARMS product. It works with all the rest of my uppers A1 and A2.

If I get anymore uppers, I'll check and see if I find anything I might like better.

Colt_SBR
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 2:25:00 PM EST
I'm not replacing my ARMS stuff until I see that they are defective and/or they give me any signs of coming loose.

I mean come on, they are pretty expensive, and since Israelis seem to have no problem with them, I think they are good enough. (may not be the best but good enough)
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 2:36:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Edge767:
Sharing knowledge (and you, Lumpy have LOTS of that to share!!!) is great... but seeing people get their feelings involved and start bashing one or the other (I won't bash LaRue just 'cause I'm not jumping on the fad bandwagon) really is getting annoying.

And yes... there is a large group that wants to "be cool" and have the latest and greatest.

Turns out my sociology professor was right about the whole conspicuous spending thing. :(



Sounds to me like you are the emotional one. The operative word in your post above is in red. Why would anyone choose not to have the greatest? If you're happy with your ARMS stuff then bully for you, but why do you care so much if someone else chooses to swap out their gear? It's their money and their rifle.

Personally I never really cared for any of the ARMS stuff. Largely because I never ran optics, and if you don't you really don't have much use for anything they make. I recently picked up one of their extended rails, and it seems to do the job I asked it to just fine.

With that said, IMHO the Larue stuff is better gear. Would I strip off all my ARMS stuff (if I had any) just to get larue? No. But I'm starting a brand new build right now and the Larue fixed rear BUIS and the Larue Aimpoint mount seem like the best things going to me.

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 3:06:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 3:11:08 PM EST by Edge767]
lol... no, I'm not very emotional. Verbose? Perhaps, but not emotional, especially not about things like gun gear.

I guess I didn't word my entry carefully enough, and it's possible that I may have come off as having more emotion for an issue which doesn't really do much for me either way. Perhaps I was reacting to all the LaRue posts that I've seen where they do everything but fellate the product and the company that makes them.

If someone likes gear from a certain company, cool! Go with it... but don't come here with baseless statements backed by nothing but emotion or perception and then try to pass that off as factual or otherwise important to everyone else. I don't tell anyone what gear to use... I may say what I use if asked, and I may offer some suggestions based on my experience, but I wouldn't tell anyone they're an idiot for using something I don't agree with.

As to your question: why would anyone chose to not have the greatest? Well, there are many reasons. Perhaps not everyone perceives the latest to be the greatest. What I think is great may not be great to you. I'll call it the latest and greatest, while to you, it may be the latest and crappiest. It's once again about perception. Some people want to get anything new, perceiving it to be better because it's newer. I think I have the best mount for my ML2 around... so I'm pleased. I think someone with a LaRue may think the same: great! But don't bash me for thinking mine is just perfect for what I need or use it for just because you think yours is better.

Hehe... once again, I've written more than I care to about this subject, but I hope you understand that I'm not being elitist or a gear snob: to the contrary, it's the gear snobs I thought I was railing about.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 3:22:24 PM EST
nothing wrong with arms stuff
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 3:49:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Edge767:
lol... no, I'm not very emotional. Verbose? Perhaps, but not emotional, especially not about things like gun gear.

I guess I didn't word my entry carefully enough, and it's possible that I may have come off as having more emotion for an issue which doesn't really do much for me either way. Perhaps I was reacting to all the LaRue posts that I've seen where they do everything but fellate the product and the company that makes them.

If someone likes gear from a certain company, cool! Go with it... but don't come here with baseless statements backed by nothing but emotion or perception and then try to pass that off as factual or otherwise important to everyone else. I don't tell anyone what gear to use... I may say what I use if asked, and I may offer some suggestions based on my experience, but I wouldn't tell anyone they're an idiot for using something I don't agree with.

As to your question: why would anyone chose to not have the greatest? Well, there are many reasons. Perhaps not everyone perceives the latest to be the greatest. What I think is great may not be great to you. I'll call it the latest and greatest, while to you, it may be the latest and crappiest. It's once again about perception. Some people want to get anything new, perceiving it to be better because it's newer. I think I have the best mount for my ML2 around... so I'm pleased. I think someone with a LaRue may think the same: great! But don't bash me for thinking mine is just perfect for what I need or use it for just because you think yours is better.

Hehe... once again, I've written more than I care to about this subject, but I hope you understand that I'm not being elitist or a gear snob: to the contrary, it's the gear snobs I thought I was railing about.



I think you're just being defensive about the gear you chose. It's pretty simple.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 4:01:48 PM EST
Ummmm... nope.

Seriously, I'm not defending my gear. I was trying to do what I now find is futile: to concisely convey to you my reasons for making my original comments, and to answer your questions. Obviously, you feel that you are right and no matter what I say, your perception will remain your reality.

Thus, I bow out of this thread and from commenting about the A.R.M.S. vs LaRue debate.

Have a great day, friend.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 4:21:26 PM EST
keeping up with the jones's. it's all a trend. ARMS has great products IMO.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 4:46:25 PM EST
The only gripe I ever really had with ARMS was that when buying a piece I never really knew how tight it was going to clamp my rail. IMHO, Larue did what ARMS should have done. ARMS chose to rest on their laurels.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:23:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Edge767:
Ummmm... nope.

Seriously, I'm not defending my gear. I was trying to do what I now find is futile: to concisely convey to you my reasons for making my original comments, and to answer your questions. Obviously, you feel that you are right and no matter what I say, your perception will remain your reality.

Thus, I bow out of this thread and from commenting about the A.R.M.S. vs LaRue debate.

Have a great day, friend.



so nany nany booboo I'm having the last word and backing out of the discussion?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:32:45 PM EST
I'm really happy with the one piece of ARMS gear I have, the 40A rear sight.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:22:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By mrcr0603:

Originally Posted By AKM:
Like most of the ARMS stuff…….weight and bulk. Compare a ARMS M68 mount to the LaRue M68 mount and you will understand what I mean.

Also the lack of adjustability when used with slightly out of spec rail systems.

Though I do like the #40L!



What is the weight difference between the ARMS #22M68 mount and Larue Aimpoint mount?


Chris



About 2-2.5oz of weight (depending on if you use a spacer or not) this does not sound like much but added with other accessories it can add up quick!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:34:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:48:27 PM EST
I do not own any ARMS items, but was planning on ARMS for my next build. From what I understand, ARMS mounts work great on ARMS rails, its just when they are mounted on KAC, Daniel Defense, ect, rail is where problems are encountered. Please save me a lot of money and correct me if I am wrong, or let me know if I am right. (Cant you easily replace ARMS rails on the forend with true picatinny spec rails on their forends?) And I have to say buying something simply because it is cool or you seen an SF guy with it is dumber than all hell. Yes, I looked into Eotech when I heard a lot of SF were using it, researched opinions, Eotechs website and on and on before finally buying it and am happy with it. But saying, Wow, I got to get whatever that operator is using is dumb as all hell.
P.S. My mind is made up on the ARMS forend, just the other options I aint sure of. I like the fact it (is supposed to) have the highest barrel cooling rating and the wheight is put on the upper receiver rail and not the barrel nut.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:10:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 7:29:14 PM EST by AKM]
[

Originally Posted By MrKasab:
P.S. My mind is made up on the ARMS forend, just the other options I aint sure of. I like the fact it (is supposed to) have the highest barrel cooling rating and the wheight is put on the upper receiver rail and not the barrel nut.



Please provide us all with the technical/Scientific data on why the SIR system is superior when it comes to displacing barrel heat? (Where did you hear this, the ARMS site?)

Just because one feels less heat simply because ones hand is farther away from a hot Barrel (the bulky nature of the SIR system) does not necessarily mean the barrel is cooling faster (and if so how much?...Is it significant? (Are you planning on building a Full-Auto upper?).

Extra weight is not significant if said extra weight is positioned on the upper receiver

LOL.

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:37:24 PM EST
No I do not have any specific data on barrel cooling from the SIR system, just opinions of many people. Which is all I have to go on at this time. If there has been such a study please post links. One of the weaknesses of the AR is the aluminum housing around the chamber area, where there is contact with a lot of heat. Eventually causing elongation of the aluminum thread area due to the high heat and the wheight of the barrel and any accessories mounted. Im sure this would not be a problem for the weekend plinker, but for extreme amounts of rapid fire this could eventually become a problem. As a side note, the SF team that worked in our AO in Iraq did not have 203's mounted under their M4 barrels, but had some configuration set up with a pistol grip. Definately not an M79 though. I always wondered why this was until I found out about the whole receiver, barel thing. And no this would not be FA. I do not want to post untrue stuff here please inform me that I am wrong, because this is not first hand information.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:24:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 9:38:24 PM EST by Kisara]
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=198265&page=1


Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:
They're not the latest fashion.



Exactly- You gotta ditch the Sergio Valente's for Gucci someday...
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:40:55 PM EST
For me I think their products are great, at least the limited amount I have dealt with, and just as important to me is they are a local company. I live about 20 minutes away from their office. Local business whenever possible for me.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 6:31:55 PM EST
What's funny is that that "very few" people on here ever reported the sliding/loosness of their ARMS throw lever products until something else came out. Those that did were told they had an out of spec upper or a "one in a million" out of spec ARMS product LOL!. Now, everybody has a loose 22M68 or 19S that they just found out about.

I also love the "more solid attachment" point of view. Yea, that's good stuff.
I've got $20 cheapo weaver steel rings that have taken abuse that no firearm should ever see and they stayed on the rifle. They didn't fall off, what a suprise. Is this possible?

Another good one is the ARMS19 ACOG (dual throw lever) is bad, ARMS 19S (single throw lever is great), and now the "new LaRue" ACOG mount is the best because it has 2 throw levers that give you a "more solid attachment". Allrighty then! I mean, wouldn't that 1 extra throw lever mount add unneccessary weight and time if you ever need to take it off in a SHTF situation.

I have pictures in my mind of a dog chasing its tail.

Link Posted: 8/21/2004 7:18:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 6:34:29 AM EST
Who remembers over a year ago here when someone posted a photo of LaRue's dual throw lever Acog mount, and everyone replied about what an ugly "cheap copycat" of the Arms 19 it was?
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 6:47:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2004 6:48:51 AM EST by norman74]
I think that many of you are attributing a general shift to inidividuals. Everyone keeps talking about how the same person posted a year ago about loving ARMS products, and posted yesterday that they suck. I don't think this is the case. As I said earlier, I never had much use for them before. Now that I'm looking into optics, railed forends, and BUIS, there are other companies around that I think make a better product. Honestly, even if I had looked at this stuff years ago I would have (and often did) pick other products. I use GG&G flipup front & rear, and had (until recently) and original RIS.

Ironically, a year ago I could have thrown up a whiney post about how "I bought a RIS a year ago and now everyone is telling me it's crap and I need a SIR". Didn't happen. The RIS was doing what I needed it to, and that was it. Didn't have any use for changing gear then. If you're happy with your ARMS gear be happy with it. Don't worry about what I use.

Again, don't try to attribute a general shift in attitudes or preferences to individual people unless you can show proof of someone changing their tune. And simply saying that one now prefers a product that wasn't available a year ago over the SIR hardly counts. I own a 2001 F150. If I ditch it in favor of a newer better 2004 F150 does that mean I'm just going with the trend, or trading up to a better product? The same can be said for the SIR and other ARMS products.

At the end of the day, who really gives a shit? You use what you want on your rifle, and I'll use what I want on mine.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 6:48:56 AM EST
What's wrong with ARMS you ask.

I don't have enough of it I say!

There are more than a few more pieces I'd like to have.

Link Posted: 8/22/2004 7:37:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2004 8:23:24 AM EST by Yojimbo]
Arms looseness? I can't speak about their QD optics mounts but as far as I can see there's no loosness or movement with my ARMS 40a. I still think it's the best flip up rear BUIS. Mine has never come loose even after many thousands of rounds.

As long as my ARMS 40a keeps doing what I need I'll be hanging on to it. So far no other BUIS has given me a reason to switch.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 7:57:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2004 1:07:30 PM EST by RAMBOSKY]
The only problem I've had with ARMS is the 19S ACOG mount. It fit's fine on a 45M forearm rail, it a little loose on my Colt A3 rail and a lot loose on a Bushmaster A3 rail.

And I not about to send the thing back to the factory eveytime I switch. So I use aluminum foil spacers. Which I shouldn't have to do if it was a good design.

Lumpy196; I feel cool, look cool and stay cool.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 9:08:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:


The LaRue has a wide solid locking bar that tensions against your rail, and the mounts also have locking guides on the bottom of them that fit in the rail notches. The ARMS mount basically torques a small v-shapped piece of folded steel against your rail.





This is well explained, thank you.
It would appear to me this arrangement also greatly reduces wear on the reciever, a bonus for someone like me who wants to keep folding sights in place and have optics on/off, a lot.

Link Posted: 8/22/2004 9:22:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2004 12:24:08 PM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 12:22:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 1:13:03 PM EST
C4 Grant,

E-mail on the way. I need more Gucci gear so I can be cool......or at least keep my AGOG from sliding around.
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 2:00:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 2:57:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2004 2:59:10 PM EST by Aussie_E]
I have 3 ARMS#40s, an ARMS#38S-EX (hehe sex cool), an ARMS#19S, an ARMS#17 with COMP M68, an ARMS#17 with Tri-Power Rings, as well as the 1/4" and 1/2" spacers for the #17, an ARMS#15 for the Reflex with spacer and an ARMS#18 for my M1A. Only problem I ever had was mounting the ARMS#17/COMP M68 and the ARMS#15 on a Ultimak rail for the AK on which they would noth slide back and forth, I personally think it was the rail is not MILSPEC as I'v mounted these on Bushmaster A3 rails as well as KAC RAS fore ends and never has it been loose or able to slide back and forth. The adjustability of the spacers is a benefit if you want to co-witness or have your aiming point over the front sight. They are definatly sturdy mounts, I had my #18 milled to accept the ACOG directly and it was some tought steel. I personally llike the finish on the ARMS being matt. The one thing about LaRue is that their ACOG mounts seam to have higher sidewalls for a more secure fit.
I won't be getting rid of my ARMS just to change to brand-x, but if I need a mounting solution for another optic I might entertain others brands. Probably will stick with ARMS to keep everything typical.
Plus I see ARMS have a new website (old one was kinda bland)
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