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Posted: 12/9/2016 1:43:27 PM EST
for the last few years I am seeing more & more run & gun 3gun style builds with long free float rails, big magnified `-4 or 2-8X optics and aftermarket stocks.

These have become a prevalent build style in the pic forums and I am sure they shoot great
these builds must be heavy. so what is too heavy for a general purpose AR?

If you have one of thee please share the weight I could be totally wrong in my guessing
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 1:55:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 1:57:22 PM EST by Essayons]
My Noveske N4 "Light" Recce VIS is almost too heavy, and IIRC it's just under 10 pounds. IMO you can easily build a reliable, straight shooting general purpose AR that weights less than 10 pounds without compromising anything important, so there's no reason for it to weigh more.

7 lb. 5 oz. for a standard M4, plus a couple pounds for optics and accessories puts you in the 8-10 lb. ballpark.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 1:59:12 PM EST
Well, I have a Recce style rifle with a 12" quad rail, Troy back up irons, and a 3x9x40" Burris scope and rings. Loaded out with a 20 round magazine it weighs in at a hair under 9lbs... I find if it were to be any heavier it would become a bit painful to run and gun with. So I guess my and answer to your question is a 9lb weapon when slung across my back on a trek is about my limit... I'm a big guy, 6',2" & 255lbs, ex power lifter, still in shape. It doesn't matter how strong you are: if you carry something long enough it becomes painful...
Here is a pic of it without the Burris scope mounts and scope attached. YMMV...
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 2:06:31 PM EST
I've built three ARs (down to one now) and found that 10lbs is about where it got too heavy. I had an M4 SOPMOD clone(ish) gun and it was a bit bulky at 9lbs. So of course I went and built a recce (top one in photo) that was 10lbs even unloaded without the sling. Too heavy. So I built #2 there and it's perfect at about 8.5lbs unloaded. Really like that one.

Link Posted: 12/9/2016 2:22:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 2:25:54 PM EST by Ej6fade]
IMO 9 lbs+ with a loaded mag is heavier than need be for a general purpose AR. There are so many light weight options on the market now, regardless of building or buying. My go to AR is ~ 8.5 lbs with a loaded mag, including sling, light, and an Aimpoint Comp M4s. Some components I picked to be light weight, like a Faxon 16" pencil barrel, but somethings not so much because I could have picked a T2 over the M4s, but I'm not really a fan of the micro type sights. I guess you could have some wiggle room if you had a heavier scope, optic, or barrel, but I guess that depends on what each person's definition of "general purpose" is.

Mine:

Link Posted: 12/9/2016 2:41:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 2:51:47 PM EST by SD307]

I'm glad my post was clear enough to get such great answers

just a note M1 Garand weight= 9.5 lb to 11.6 lb according to wikipedia and a USMC issue A4 with KAC M5 & ACOG weigh 9.7lbs loaded

there are alot of good lightweight options but many builds- understandably do not fret over weight much. focusing on accuracy or reliability.

I am surprised to see 8lbs loaded builds

my 14.5 pinned BCM M4 UPPER WITH A 9" KAC RAS AND A STREAM LIGHT TLR2 & T1 on it weighs in at 8lbs loaded.

I thought it was light but am now looking for something lighter

thanks for the responses.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 3:19:11 PM EST
9.5 to 10.........datsa tooa mucha
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 3:29:45 PM EST
I think 9-10lbs is where it could be a bit too heavy for a general purpose rifle.
For a general purpose rifle, ease of carry and manipulation should be considered.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 3:46:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 3:53:59 PM EST by mr_h]
you have your poll wrong....it should be; what is the appropriate weight for a GP rifle

i am fine up to 9 lbs for a "choo-choo-tree" caliber rifle, with full mag. i have one rifle with a 14.5 skinny barrel that is almost too light. i tend to over swing it, going from target to target. nice to carry around though.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 4:05:50 PM EST
I guess it depends on how much of a sissy you are. I'd say a pound or so doesn't make as much difference as a couple inches. "General purpose" includes getting in and out of a vehicle and going through hallways and doorways as much as it involves hiking around the woods.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 4:44:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By giantpune:
I guess it depends on how much of a sissy you are. I'd say a pound or so doesn't make as much difference as a couple inches. "General purpose" includes getting in and out of a vehicle and going through hallways and doorways as much as it involves hiking around the woods.
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That pound or so matters when you are carrying all of your own gear, including water, shelter, supplies, etc; Not trying to start an argument, just making a point. I've never heard anyone say "I wish my gun was heavier" for a general purpose rifle/carbine

Link Posted: 12/9/2016 5:16:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 5:17:05 PM EST by MS556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ej6fade:


That pound or so matters when you are carrying all of your own gear, including water, shelter, supplies, etc; Not trying to start an argument, just making a point. I've never heard anyone say "I wish my gun was heavier" for a general purpose rifle/carbine
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Originally Posted By Ej6fade:
Originally Posted By giantpune:
I guess it depends on how much of a sissy you are. I'd say a pound or so doesn't make as much difference as a couple inches. "General purpose" includes getting in and out of a vehicle and going through hallways and doorways as much as it involves hiking around the woods.


That pound or so matters when you are carrying all of your own gear, including water, shelter, supplies, etc; Not trying to start an argument, just making a point. I've never heard anyone say "I wish my gun was heavier" for a general purpose rifle/carbine


Well said. Still I'm not sure the question is answerable, as there are going to be variations in what people consider general purpose. For me, and me alone, I use my hunting bolt guns as my frame of reference, as I often have to carry them and a lot of gear some considerable distance to get in and out of where game are likely to be. My personal rule there is that I don't want the scoped rifle, with a loaded magazine and a carry sling, to weight more than 8.0 lbs. ready to pull the trigger. That may be unrealistically light for many. I don't wish to impose my ideas on others. My "general purpose" and yours may differ greatly.

My precision "Recce" 16" AR build set up the same way with similar scope (3-9x40 or similar) will weight about 10.5 pounds. I could probably shave off a pound or pound an a half with a skeletal type stock and lighter free float rail, maybe just a carbon fiber tube. I'd still be a pound heavier than I prefer, but it would "do." I suppose I could call it "general purpose" but that might be a stretch.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 5:26:43 PM EST
An M16A4 with M5 and Acog isn't bad.  Add an M203 and it's a pig

While it's nice to keep them lighter, new rails have really cut down on the weight.  I want to keep it under 12lb fully loaded.  Under 9 would be nicer but may not be realistic if trying to keep an accurate build with scope and bipod.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 6:11:17 PM EST
For general purpose, that means anything and everything that you might need to grab a carbine for which means it has to be durable and reliable over all else. So if it ends up being 9 to 10 lbs loaded and decked out, so be it. Some of the super lightweight stuff just makes me nervous.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 6:26:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 6:27:02 PM EST by NUJbrown]
my go to sbr is 11.something lbs loaded with 30 rounds.





I call her piggly
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 8:18:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 8:25:25 PM EST by familyman357]
If your 22 caliber rifle starts approaching the M1 Garand in weight (about 10 pounds), you're doing it wrong.
If your AR carbine weighs more than the M16A1 (roughly 7.5 pounds), you can probably trim some weight without losing any real functionality if you're smart and ruthless in your decisions.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 8:22:40 PM EST
A Nat'l Match A2 with lead in the butt is about 12lbs. With the slight rear bias, that's the heaviest I think I could "operate".
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 8:25:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 8:27:04 PM EST by HighpowerRifleBrony]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By familyman357:
If your 22 caliber rifle starts approaching the M1 Garand in weight (about 10 pounds), you're doing it wrong. Very wrong.
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"Grunts never get a lighter load. They just get more lighter weight crap to carry."
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 8:48:29 PM EST
It's not about weight only, it's about balance.

I run NODs and IR lasers which skew my weight...and with the laser out front the balance is not great.

It's a small price to see in the dark
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 10:10:44 PM EST
This is an awesome thread. I was just poking around the mini recce pic thread not too long ago to see how I stack up weight wise. Not as bad as i thought, a little over 8lbs.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 10:34:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
An M16A4 with M5 and Acog isn't bad.  Add an M203 and it's a pig
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Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
An M16A4 with M5 and Acog isn't bad.  Add an M203 and it's a pig


tell me about it in 03 I was issued a colt M4 with a M68, KACRIS, PAQ4 & ,a M203 that gun must have weighed 13lbs with a mag and a HEDP in the tube it was front heavy as hell.


Originally Posted By jaqufrost:

While it's nice to keep them lighter, new rails have really cut down on the weight.  I want to keep it under 12lb fully loaded.  Under 9 would be nicer but may not be realistic if trying to keep an accurate build with scope and bipod.


theoften mocked grippod might be a good option there.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 10:35:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By NUJbrown:
my go to sbr is 11.something lbs loaded with 30 rounds.


http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz334/jbrown611/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160921_132801127_zpsfimnqtac.jpg


I call her piggly
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that is a nice piece of kit . What is the painters tape for
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 10:39:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DefenderAO:
It's not about weight only, it's about balance.

I run NODs and IR lasers which skew my weight...and with the laser out front the balance is not great.

It's a small price to see in the dark
View Quote


for ir illum & aiming I use the streamlight TLR-2 IR eyesafe it has an IR LED slightly better than a surefire V series, and a class 1 laser, add the remote switch tailcap with a lock off option it is pretty great piece of light weight kit.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 11:06:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SD307:


that is a nice piece of kit . What is the painters tape for
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PERSEC, I guess.
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 11:19:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hammermill290:
For general purpose, that means anything and everything that you might need to grab a carbine for which means it has to be durable and reliable over all else. So if it ends up being 9 to 10 lbs loaded and decked out, so be it. Some of the super lightweight stuff just makes me nervous.
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I agree with the super light weight stuff statement. I bang my barrel around a lot and sometimes I think if I decided to go to a lighter profile other than government I might bend or otherwise damage it bad enough to effect function. 
Link Posted: 12/9/2016 11:22:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2016 11:27:00 PM EST by wesr228]
I say Under 9 lbs unloaded. Above that and I would start to be leaving the General Purpose category to specialized rigs for nods or SPR.

This is a sample of three I have.

The heaviest is what I am turning into a jack of all trades master of none. With an upcoming optic and mount switch out it will be closer 9.25 pounds loaded.

Attachment Attached File
Attachment Attached File
Attachment Attached File
[s][/s]
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 1:02:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/10/2016 5:04:27 AM EST by Frost7]
I'm a .308 guy these days so I tend toward heavier. My go-to rifle that I rely on and train with is 12 pounds right on the mark when you add the full 20-round mag, HWS, magnifier, and LAM. It's very centrally balanced, with the center of gravity right about in the middle of the magwell, so it doesn't feel like 12 pounds and maneuvers very quickly. But it's just around the tipping point where it starts to become troublesome to maneuver. Throw on a bipod or bayonet and it tips quickly into "too heavy" and "front heavy" territory.



It's stood up to firing both very good and very shitty ammo back to back, with multiple different types of mags, in the blowing dust and rain, several hundreds of rounds, for several hours at a time with nary a complaint (except when I fed it ZQI and it refused to feed, but I hate Turkish food too), so it's good to go. I have a nice sling and don't have pencil arms, so the user is good to go too despite the weight.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 9:04:53 AM EST
I just had a post in gd kinda comparing my 10lbs carbine (maybe 10.5 but I forget) with 1-4 optic, wml, 40rd mag, and a sling to my M1. Both weight 10lbs.

Last year I hunted with my 11.5lbs bolt gun and found it just a tad heavy. It's also a bit bulky to carry due to the dbm/scope. This year I've been carrying my M1 and don't mind it at all.





After bumming around the mountains and shooting out a couple hundred yards, snowshoe hares on the run, and sleeping with it curled up in the snow I've come to really appreciate the M1.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 9:42:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TJRoush:
9.5 to 10.........datsa tooa mucha
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Yep. 10+ too much.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 10:08:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:

PERSEC, I guess.
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winrar, it's my NFA engraving.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 10:37:13 AM EST
If you can't hump weight, make it lighter or get some manly muscles.

To me, carrying weight for an AR at an ideal max of 11 lbs.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 10:44:09 AM EST
agree, way too much emphasis on weight but there are trade offs with reduction of weight to an AR

that said, if people have a problem humping a 9-11 lb AR then they've got bigger issues to deal with
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 11:30:43 AM EST
I don't try to build 5 # rifles, but I do try lighten what I can. Can I carry a 11.5 pound gun? Sure, until I don't want to anymore. I would rather carry a 9 pound gun. I'm just not going carry more weight for weights sake. Today we have options, the stuff I buy isn't issued so I'm going to buy what I want/can afford. I stick with known components and companies, don't full around with LW carriers and other extreme measures, and I have something that's reliable and more fun to drag out to the range/woods.

I like to think about light weight components because by the time you add BUIS (3 oz) a light and mount (5 oz) the extra weight of a QD mount (let's say an extra 4 oz over an Aero Precision or NF Unimount) plus the added weight of most magnified optics (at least 4 oz over an RDS) and you have an extra pound of rifle. It adds up. So I think about barrel weights, stocks, and handguards before a build.

I have an HBAR Carbine (LMT MRP) and I love it. But If I'm rolling my own, I will take a 23-28 oz barrel over a 32-34 oz barrel for general purpose. If I wanted to build an SPR, I have no problem with a heavier barrel. Those awesome kick ass DD RIS II rails are like 17 oz. A Geissele 9.5" SMR MK8 (not the lightest, but also a rail that no one would say is "weak" or "flimsy") is 10.3 oz with barrel nut. Choosing the right stock can also save a few extra ounces. So for me, I just think about what would suit my purpose and plan accordingly.

YMMV, and if you want a clone, go for it, but for me lighter is better. A pound is a pound; that's an extra mag of ammo. Two pounds is two pounds; that's an extra mag and extra water. Etc etc.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 12:08:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:


Well said. Still I'm not sure the question is answerable, as there are going to be variations in what people consider general purpose. For me, and me alone, I use my hunting bolt guns as my frame of reference, as I often have to carry them and a lot of gear some considerable distance to get in and out of where game are likely to be. My personal rule there is that I don't want the scoped rifle, with a loaded magazine and a carry sling, to weight more than 8.0 lbs. ready to pull the trigger. That may be unrealistically light for many. I don't wish to impose my ideas on others. My "general purpose" and yours may differ greatly.

My precision "Recce" 16" AR build set up the same way with similar scope (3-9x40 or similar) will weight about 10.5 pounds. I could probably shave off a pound or pound an a half with a skeletal type stock and lighter free float rail, maybe just a carbon fiber tube. I'd still be a pound heavier than I prefer, but it would "do." I suppose I could call it "general purpose" but that might be a stretch.
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Agreed. Not easily answered. IMO it's not governed by a specific weight, but by what you can comfortably carry all day, unslung. General purpose to me would imply it's the rifle you have with you all the time when not completing a specific task. Like long range shooting or covert operations. So general purpose would be with you mending fences, or cutting wood or fixing the truck or scouting hunting trails. If it's too heavy it quickly becomes a nuisance and you get tired of carrying it. Then you sling it up or don't bring it at all. That's why it has to be comfortable for YOU to carry. Optics add weight. Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain. BUIS or micro red dots are a good option. To keep weight down. But if you have a lighter rifle you may get away with an optic. My two favorite general purpose rifles both have optics. One has a mid length gas Dissipator upper. I put a carry handle on it with a micro red dot on top. That's a good option for everything. Dead battery won't stop you from aiming. The other is a RRA Coyote with a TA11 ACOG. Sure the ACOG is heavier, but the rifle is fairly light. So it's a good match IMO. My advice is to go for a several hour walk in the woods carrying different firearms and see what carries best for you. Once you know, get on the scale with your rifle, and then weigh yourself again without your rifle. The difference is the weight that works for you. Keep in mind exertion and or carrying a pack will affect your stamina and comfort level. Like another post said, no one has ever said they wish their rifle was heavier. Good luck finding your comfortable weight.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 12:15:39 PM EST
Attachment Attached File

My favorite all purpose rifle. Has a nice 1.75 pound HIPERFIRE 24 3G trigger.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 12:31:17 PM EST
Attachment Attached File

And that's my Coyote. I'll call it a first Gen. The specs claim 3/4 MOA accuracy and it has the rubber Hogue hand guard. Since then they have changed the hand guard and accuracy specs to 1MOA. Interesting. I can say mine will do 3/4. I never bothered getting pics. But it's my go to deer gun for a reason. Incidentally it's also the rifle I have my oldest daughter using to good effect on deer.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 12:36:55 PM EST
General purpose is sort of a ..oh..general term .

Heavier guns shoot better and longer guns also shoot better so it sort of comes down to what you are willing to haul around.

I use a carbine for HD and playing around at the range.

I have a 20" with a pencil barrel that is fairly light that is my go to range gun .

I have a Stag Varmint upper that has a long (22"?) heavy barrel that is sometimes called upon just because it shoots well but it is a heavy gun .

Then there is my RRNM service rifle that between the huge heavy barrel and the stock weight to give it passable balance hits the scale at 12+lbs.
Not just heavy but a beast but it is purpose design and it works at match shooting.

I more or less detest heavy ARs , generally I think folks put way too much shit on them and take all the fun out of them. I believe the original Vietnam era pencil barrel A2 was the high point of the design. Yeah I know that statement is in conflict with some of the ARs I own but there you go
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 12:42:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
I just had a post in gd kinda comparing my 10lbs carbine (maybe 10.5 but I forget) with 1-4 optic, wml, 40rd mag, and a sling to my M1. Both weight 10lbs.

Last year I hunted with my 11.5lbs bolt gun and found it just a tad heavy. It's also a bit bulky to carry due to the dbm/scope. This year I've been carrying my M1 and don't mind it at all.

http://i65.tinypic.com/207uvll.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/vfuv0o.jpg

After bumming around the mountains and shooting out a couple hundred yards, snowshoe hares on the run, and sleeping with it curled up in the snow I've come to really appreciate the M1.
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Not that I don't agree with your logic but I am noteing a battle of the bulge reincarnation type thing going on.

Does anyone make a barrel for 6.5 or 6.8 that would give you decent balistics but still give you a 6.5 lb gun with Iron sights? seems that would be a good hunting rig
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 12:56:14 PM EST
Are we talking with a loaded mag? Without? With optics?

A "general purpose" AR without a mag should be 7 pounds or less, not including optic, mag, ammo, light.

6ish pounds is better.

A thick barreled gun with a 3-9 scope and a bipod is not a general purpose AR.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 1:56:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nhsport:



Not that I don't agree with your logic but I am noteing a battle of the bulge reincarnation type thing going on.

Does anyone make a barrel for 6.5 or 6.8 that would give you decent balistics but still give you a 6.5 lb gun with Iron sights? seems that would be a good hunting rig
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I have light Sporter weight bolts, lever guns, etc that make lighter hunting guns but poor general purpose rifles.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 1:59:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Click2Boom:
Are we talking with a loaded mag? Without? With optics?

A "general purpose" AR without a mag should be 7 pounds or less, not including optic, mag, ammo, light.

6ish pounds is better.

A thick barreled gun with a 3-9 scope and a bipod is not a general purpose AR.
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Loaded with optic, light, ammo, sling, etc.

Lots of people say they have a 6lbs gun but its unloaded, no slings, light, etc. Kinda disingenuous.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 5:01:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/10/2016 6:09:26 PM EST by JohnRippert]
Top one is 9lb even, loaded. The little torx tool that came with the lightweight scope mount is in the butt trap. I can change the scope out to a Aimpoint Micro in less than 30 seconds. The bottom one is 6lb4oz loaded.



Link Posted: 12/10/2016 5:24:15 PM EST
I voted heavier because I'm a huge proponent of "get stronger" when it comes to firearms weight. 

But, personal preference aside, almost every general purpose weapon in use from the 1890's till now comes in around 7-9 pounds loaded. 

As mentioned, balance has more to do with things than weight sometimes. A well balanced gun can be carried all day with little fatigue. A poorly balanced gun will wear your ass out even if it weighs the same as the well balanced gun. goes the same for shooting them. 
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 6:23:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By nhsport:




I more or less detest heavy ARs , generally I think folks put way too much shit on them and take all the fun out of them. I believe the original Vietnam era pencil barrel A2 was the high point of the design. Yeah I know that statement is in conflict with some of the ARs I own but there you go
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A2?? You mean A1. A1 was the pencil barrel issued rifle and is a svelte carrying rifle, esp with GI 20 rnd magazines.

And it is laughable that folks carry 30 and even 40 rnd magazines in them when hunting, hiking, or general woods bumming. 20 rnd and even 10 rnds in the rifle is smaller and lighter and you can reload with a larger mag if needed.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 6:33:45 PM EST
I said 10-12lbs is too much for a general purpose AR, and I included optic + mount weight in that.

I have an 18" heavy barrel full stock 3gun rifle which weights in at a little over 9lbs with a lightweight 1-4x optic. It is good for competition shooting but if it was a patrol rifle, I would want it to be closer to the 7lb range. Some people will scoff and say "lift some weights" or something ridiculous like that, but the reality is that we have lightweight ARs and optics that perform very well so there is no need for anything heavier. Unless you have some specific capabilities that you are looking for such as sustained accurate long-range fire which would require a longer and heavier barrel, better optics, and probably accessories such as a bipod--all things that add weight.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 7:08:24 PM EST
9.5 to 10
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 7:19:03 PM EST
I sold my PTR91 because it was north of 10lbs. A great rifle, but heavier than I liked and more gun than I needed at the time.
Link Posted: 12/10/2016 8:22:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/10/2016 8:25:18 PM EST by Frost7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By myhatinthering:
agree, way too much emphasis on weight but there are trade offs with reduction of weight to an AR

that said, if people have a problem humping a 9-11 lb AR then they've got bigger issues to deal with
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Originally Posted By myhatinthering:
agree, way too much emphasis on weight but there are trade offs with reduction of weight to an AR

that said, if people have a problem humping a 9-11 lb AR then they've got bigger issues to deal with


Agree. I think balance plays a big part in it. Something that's front heavy as hell gets exhausting to hold on target and handles like a pig. In the AR-10 world, that's why I like the 901 and the SR-25 carbine so much; even if they're loaded up with stuff, the weight is more rearward than most others, they stay well-balanced, and won't slow down handling to any appreciable degree. A lot of other AR-10 clones handle much worse than they do even though they're in the same weight class.

Just weight, though, yeah. If you can't tote a ~10 pound weapon around all day, it's not because you rifle is too heavy, it's because you're in poor shape. The user is as much a factor as the rifle. You can use a heavy full power rifle just as well as a light intermediate if you build the muscle for it.

Originally Posted By Madcap72:
I voted heavier because I'm a huge proponent of "get stronger" when it comes to firearms weight.

But, personal preference aside, almost every general purpose weapon in use from the 1890's till now comes in around 7-9 pounds loaded.

As mentioned, balance has more to do with things than weight sometimes. A well balanced gun can be carried all day with little fatigue. A poorly balanced gun will wear your ass out even if it weighs the same as the well balanced gun. goes the same for shooting them.


Exactly.
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 4:54:24 AM EST
Very much agree with balance relative to weight. Not just front heavy, but top heavy too.

Just weighed this as pictured with 30 rounds of 69gr:Attachment Attached File


16" .750 Hanson with centurion CMR, magpul stuff, trijicon mro, kac rear, DD front sights, Lancer mag with 30rds of 69gr, = 7lbs 13 Oz. My lights are around 3-5 Oz, so pretty much 8lbs exactly.

If I had to run off innawoods id probably take my 14.5 .625 ba Hanson and 13" alg, either similarly outfitted or with acog. And it would be a little over 7 with a loaded mag.

No titanium parts, no lightweight skeleton parts, just sensible barrel contours and quality FF handguards n stuff. Im not one for LW carriers and all that. No m952's or RIS or bipod or deer rifle scopes and you can be at 8lbs and under too! My 8lb one is my "heavy" Gun, too, my other go to ars are either pencil 14.5 or way shorter.

Link Posted: 12/11/2016 5:48:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2016 5:55:08 AM EST by rb889]
If it's more than ten pounds loaded, you might as well carry a full-size battle rifle. The purpose of a carbine is to have a lightweight, handy weapon that can be carried long distances on foot, and be equally effective outside, indoors, in a vehicle, or anywhere else.

For barrel length, 12" to 16" is ideal for a general purpose carbine, and does the job reasonably well from 0 to 400 meters. I like my 14.5" M4 clone, it does everything I could ask of a rifle.

For accessories, you really only need three things; sling, light, and optic, in that order. Reasoning is, you need a way to retain your weapon if you have to go hands-on; and in the dark, you can't shoot what you can't see; finally, an optic is great for faster, more consistent shooting under stress, though it is less important than the other two, since one can use irons just as easily with practice.

Don't need more than that hanging off your rifle unless you've got NV, and sometimes, not even then. Maybe a foregrip, good for shooting off a barricade, but save bipods for the heavy precision rigs. If you really need more stability, invest in a shooting sling setup, or shooting sticks; as many have said, the less crap you've got hanging off your rifle, the better.

ETA: Almost forgot, yeah, balance is more important than weight. A nose-heavy gun will wear on you a lot faster than a well-balanced or ass-heavy one. (IE, bullpups like the Tavor, Aug, etc) Another bonus of the standard M4 is that the balance is very nice, and you can hang a lot of crap off an RAS without making the gun too nose-heavy.
Link Posted: 12/11/2016 6:04:22 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
I just had a post in gd kinda comparing my 10lbs carbine (maybe 10.5 but I forget) with 1-4 optic, wml, 40rd mag, and a sling to my M1. Both weight 10lbs.

Last year I hunted with my 11.5lbs bolt gun and found it just a tad heavy. It's also a bit bulky to carry due to the dbm/scope. This year I've been carrying my M1 and don't mind it at all.

http://i65.tinypic.com/207uvll.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/vfuv0o.jpg

After bumming around the mountains and shooting out a couple hundred yards, snowshoe hares on the run, and sleeping with it curled up in the snow I've come to really appreciate the M1.
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IMHO the garand might handle better in that purpose because it doesn't have the accessories that put weight off the centerline of gravity like a big scope, long mag, grip, wml, etc. All that stuff introduces gyroscopic torque when waving the rifle around.

If you want a magnified rifle that handles better, you need your optic and mag to not hang out so far. Something like a red dot, acog, and shorter mag would help.

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